Brute Fury 2.0

[Ston]

Tankers got buffed. Brutes don't really feel good to play in comparison. I think this would be a way to give Brutes something that makes them feel unique and a reason to pick them over a Scrapper or Tanker.

I could be convinced to remove the +recharge, but I'm pretty set on the +movement making Brutes more fun and fitting the theme of Fury.

What I want to avoid is Tankers being nerfed to make Brutes happier. And I think just adjusting Brute damage modifiers or target caps would be a bit of a boring change.

Scrappers, Stalkers, and Tankers each have something special that makes their gameplay unique. Brutes don't really have that right now in my opinion. Fury is almost always 85% in combat.

[Rudra]

I'm personally opposed to the +recharge of your suggestion. For the same reason I won't take Hasten. I can build my own +recharge into my builds. Aside from that? I'm rather apathetic.

[honoroit]

it would be 'power creep' though, wouldn't it (any balancing is) - so absolute non-movement in any direction is the conservator's dream, kupo!

 

i like the idea of a brute moving faster, like a charging bull. works for beastmen.

 

good luck.

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by honoroit
i get run fast when im angsty

[Rudra]

3 minutes ago, honoroit said:

it would be 'power creep' though, wouldn't it (any balancing is) - so absolute non-movement in any direction is the conservator's dream, kupo!

 

i like the idea of a brute moving faster, like a charging bull. works for beastmen.

 

good luck.

 

The +recharge part would be, yes. The +movement part though? That would be lateral expansion.

[Ston]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

The +recharge part would be, yes. The +movement part though? That would be lateral expansion.

 

Lateral expansion is what I'm after. Something that makes them more fun without necessarily making their performance crazy better like the Tanker buffs accomplished.

[Greycat]

I don't think it's needed, honestly, but I will say the movement speed is an interesting take.

 

Flip side being some people don't like having their movement speeds boosted or movement otherwise altered from what they're expecting. I don't know if this would build enough to be an issue for some people, say, fighting in caves or some of the twisty hallways. *I* don't mind - I have a brute or two with Spring Attack specifically for the "... and I'm going to get there NOW and punch you in THAT nose with THIS fist!" feel, but some are more sensitive to movement speeds.

[Rudra]

25 minutes ago, Ston said:

 

Lateral expansion is what I'm after. Something that makes them more fun without necessarily making their performance crazy better like the Tanker buffs accomplished.

 

18 minutes ago, Greycat said:

I don't think it's needed, honestly, but I will say the movement speed is an interesting take.

 

Flip side being some people don't like having their movement speeds boosted or movement otherwise altered from what they're expecting. I don't know if this would build enough to be an issue for some people, say, fighting in caves or some of the twisty hallways. *I* don't mind - I have a brute or two with Spring Attack specifically for the "... and I'm going to get there NOW and punch you in THAT nose with THIS fist!" feel, but some are more sensitive to movement speeds.

I guess the question to ask would be how much of a speed boost we're talking about here. A max +10% speed boost may not cause players that have difficulty navigating caves or similar much problem. The upwards of +50% boost I see in the OP though? That will have several players either up in arms or forswearing Brutes for the rest of their lives.

 

So while I am still apathetic about this, I would recommend placing a much lower cap on the movement aspect. Let it grow quickly, sure, but to a much lower limit.

 

Edit: I would also reduce the duration to 0.75 seconds. 1 second at max. So you move more or less in sync with your Fury.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Rudra

[Ston]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

 

I guess the question to ask would be how much of a speed boost we're talking about here. A max +10% speed boost may not cause players that have difficulty navigating caves or similar much problem. The upwards of +50% boost I see in the OP though? That will have several players either up in arms or forswearing Brutes for the rest of their lives.

 

So while I am still apathetic about this, I would recommend placing a much lower cap on the movement aspect. Let it grow quickly, sure, but to a much lower limit.

 

Yeah I’m not married to the numbers. And the sensitivity is a good point. I mostly just want brutes to go from target-to-target faster. 

 

Should note that this would ignore any movement suppression. Similar to Quickness or Lightning Reflexes.

[Nyghtmaire]

I like the proposal, especially for leveling  (the 1-49) game. Increased speed feels monumental when engaged in combat and may inadvertently promote more movement during combat rather than merely turreting. The recharge bonus will be self-limiting until endurance is brought under control. And the bonus at 50 will be, eyeball estimate, nice but not significantly consequential. 
 

I wonder if fury increasing melee range would be a worthwhile alternative (fury causing the brute to lunge wildly when attacking)? Meaning that the range for a brute to connect melee attacks could be increased by fury to the extent beyond a mob’s melee range. It would be a subtle survivability change, causing mobs to switch to lesser damaging ranged attacks for a short time. Mobs would still be inclined to move into their melee range, but would allow the player to kite somewhat, making the movement increase that much kore valuable. 

[TheZag]

I wouldnt enjoy +movement speed.  I turn off sprint most of the time because my toons move around too quick.  Im sure that im in a minority opinion here but i cant turn off fury so i would have to play my brutes less.  It could be the change that brutes need overall but 1 persons buff may very well be someone elses nerf.

 

[Troo]

Brutes having a scaling component that rewards maintaining Fury has always been compelling. Keeping it something that could be done without Fury kept it from being ridiculous.

 

+Damage can be achieved through inspirations.

 

+Recharge can not. Giving Broots an inherent that inspirations cannot could be overpowered.

 

Hypocritically, increasing AoE range but not/or maybe target caps could be interesting. But Fury = Kill-MoR3-FasT3r could be hard to balance.

[biostem]

Brutes need a kind of "no sell" ability when sufficiently furious - some sort of "ignores debuffs" effect, which prevents them from being slowed down, knocked aside, etc.  It'd also be funny to give them a sort of knockdown effect if they're moving into any weaker enemies, (maybe only if moving faster than some baseline speed)... 

[Herotu]

15 hours ago, biostem said:

Brutes need a kind of "no sell" ability when sufficiently furious - some sort of "ignores debuffs" effect, which prevents them from being slowed down, knocked aside, etc.  It'd also be funny to give them a sort of knockdown effect if they're moving into any weaker enemies, (maybe only if moving faster than some baseline speed)... 

Yep. If Tanks are the immovable object, Brutes should be the unstoppable force*.

 

*This is just a poetic opinion, I don't know how they function technically.

[Major_Decoy]

I wonder if the problem with brutes isn't so much the inherent as it is lack of diversity in enhancement bonuses and sets.

 

I mean, you get a lot of damage bonuses from your inherent so slotted damage enhancement isn't as valuable, but all the sets prioritize damage slotting.

 

Would it be more helpful to brutes if there were melee attack sets that focused on things other than damage?

[Hyperstrike]

2.0?

You think the versioning is that low?

🤣😂

[Glacier Peak]

Okay what about a mechanic that pulls enemies towards the Brute - where higher Fury means more strength in the effect, which could scale up to the target cap. If anyone has played Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts, think Magnet. 

[Rudra]

3 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Okay what about a mechanic that pulls enemies towards the Brute - where higher Fury means more strength in the effect, which could scale up to the target cap. If anyone has played Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts, think Magnet. 

Tankers would complain.

[twozerofoxtrot]

16 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Tankers would complain.

 

You don't speak for the Tankers, Lorax.

[Major_Decoy]

2 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

Okay what about a mechanic that pulls enemies towards the Brute - where higher Fury means more strength in the effect, which could scale up to the target cap. If anyone has played Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts, think Magnet. 

It's an interesting idea, but I think it conflicts with the design of certain enemies. I mean, you try to keep a little distance when defeating Carnival of Shadows, and you try to defeat Super Stunners at range, things like that.

 

There would have to be a means to turn it off.

[Lines]

I actually really like the +recharge idea. If it'a calculated right, it would help close the small damage gap while feeling different from the other melee ATs.

[Rudra]

7 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

7 hours ago, Rudra said:

Tankers would complain.

 

You don't speak for the Tankers, Lorax.

You're right. Especially since I don't play them. Precedent says it would happen though.

[Hyperstrike]

4 hours ago, Lines said:

I actually really like the +recharge idea. If it'a calculated right, it would help close the small damage gap while feeling different from the other melee ATs.

The problem is that the +Rech would have to be trivial to the point of "why bother".  Or so significant that it would unbalance the game.

[Hyperstrike]

7 hours ago, twozerofoxtrot said:

 

You don't speak for the Tankers, Lorax.

I dunno.  I have a LOT of Tankers.

One is my prime.

I've written up HOWTO on several types of Tanks (primarily Inv).

Does this allow me to speak for Tanks?

[Yomo Kimyata]

I actually like the concept of fury for brutes — the increase in damage when you are leveling up and running on it is noticeable and it adds a bit to a gotta smash em now mindset.

 

at the high end, there’s not a lot to distinguish it though.  As mentioned, fury build’s basically instantly to 85%.
 

I haven’t spent one second of time thinking about how people would exploit this, but I’d like a slower fury build over a wider range.  I think current fury Mac is ?+200?  Max that to 350 and have it take 60 seconds of fighting to get it to 200!

[Rudra]

2 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I actually like the concept of fury for brutes — the increase in damage when you are leveling up and running on it is noticeable and it adds a bit to a gotta smash em now mindset.

 

at the high end, there’s not a lot to distinguish it though.  As mentioned, fury build’s basically instantly to 85%.
 

I haven’t spent one second of time thinking about how people would exploit this, but I’d like a slower fury build over a wider range.  I think current fury Mac is ?+200?  Max that to 350 and have it take 60 seconds of fighting to get it to 200!

Fury decay rate says you will never get there. The decay rate would also have to be adjusted. Which I'm fine with, I'm just saying.