S.O. enhancements... let's make them affordable for new players

[Shred Monkey]

When I make a new toon, I'm always rushing up to level 7-11ish... that's then I can buy SO's and  get them slotted and get that significant bump in power.   That's when I slow down and start to enjoy the game.

 

But the thing is, the pricing for SO's was never set for starter toons to be able to afford them.  I always send 20M inf from an alt to my new toon so I can afford to buy SO's and upgrade them at each level.

 

My suggestion is that we tweak the cost of SO's and and the cost to "upgrade" so that they're affordable by a typical player (playing without 2x XP and inf turned off.)  I think we can just drop DO's from the game like they did with generics.  I never thought DO's were significant enough to bother with to begin with and SO's are really where the fun begins.  Just start selling SO's at level 5 like DO's do now and let the fun begin sooner.

 

This won't affect balance of the game since most all of us can just email ourselves 20M inf.  

[Vic Raiden]

What were generic enhancements like, actually? I think I joined long after they got removed.

[GM Impervium]

1 hour ago, Vic Raiden said:

What were generic enhancements like, actually? I think I joined long after they got removed.

They were called "Training Origin", and would enhance a power attribute by something like 8%. So while static attributes like accuracy and recharge would see a minor improvement if you stacked a couple, damage enhancements on low-level characters character would be completely unnoticeable (what's 8% of 10 damage? 10.08 damage).

[Vic Raiden]

Weird how they're still mentioned in help pop-ups when they don't exist anymore.

[twozerofoxtrot]

1 hour ago, Vic Raiden said:

Weird how they're still mentioned in help pop-ups when they don't exist anymore.

 

They were (relatively) recently removed; some time in the past 2 years and only on HC.

 

There's probably a few things that slipped by the team or were too difficult to remove from code to make the effort worth it.

 

I'll take the quirks to see TOs removed. They were always vendor trash for me.

[Psyonico]

They do still exist, you can buy them from sg base vendors, not worth it though.

[Bionic_Flea]

If you adjust the price of SOs you have to consider the price when buying as well as the price when selling. 

 

If you lower both prices, you may end up making it harder for characters to earn enough.

[WanderingAries]

Oh wow, TOs are gone? I used to throw those everywhere I could and then sell everything else (along with whatever Insp I didn't need) so that I could get DOs / SOs. Yeah, I wouldn't suggest messing with the prices as you'll make that avenue of gaining Inf that much harder (used to be my primary method early on for a toon).

[Rudra]

Besides, it's not like any character needs SOs to clear anything in the early levels of the game.

[SwitchFade]

On this one, I agree, yes vote 

 

SO prices, for people who haven't learned how to generate wealth quickly, can be expensive to a new player.

 

So, while I agree this can impact selling price and mean less earning, it warrants a look at how we can lower price and tweak some settings to adjust.

[Biff Pow]

Just one Rare Salvage drop, sold in the Auction House, can fund SOs for quite a few early levels (as long as you're not upgrading every level.) And you can buy a Rare Salvage for the 5 Merits you get for the starting zone exploration badges.

 

Yeah, this info isn't exactly new player friendly, but isn't figuring out strategies like this part of playing games?

 

(And honestly, how many new players is this game really getting?)

[MoonSheep]

buy DO’s instead

[BazookaTwo]

Generic IOs are typically a better deal than SOs. Buy em when you can, and make choices about what needs bumped up first. It's procs and real IOs that cost a lot. 

 

Me personally? I use my altitis to my advantage, and end up pillaging a finished toon from a similar archetype if I like this new character better. It's a quick way to get 100-200 million in a hurry. 

[Uun]

3 minutes ago, BazookaTwo said:

Generic IOs are typically a better deal than SOs.

Not true below level 25. Even-level SOs have the same strength regardless of what level you are (33% for schedule A, 20% for schedule B, etc.). IOs were designed to match the effectiveness of TOs and DOs at lower levels. A level 15 IO is 57.5% the strength of an SO (slightly better than a DO) and a level 20 IO is 77% the strength. Now that SOs can be purchased below level 25, they really should adjust the IO scaling to make them more effective at lower levels.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Invention_Origin_Enhancement_Scaling

[BazookaTwo]

6 minutes ago, Uun said:

Not true below level 25. Even-level SOs have the same strength regardless of what level you are (33% for schedule A, 20% for schedule B, etc.). IOs were designed to match the effectiveness of TOs and DOs at lower levels. A level 15 IO is 57.5% the strength of an SO (slightly better than a DO) and a level 20 IO is 77% the strength. Now that SOs can be purchased below level 25, they really should adjust the IO scaling to make them more effective at lower levels.

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Invention_Origin_Enhancement_Scaling

 

I was talking about price only, not the stats. Paying to upgrade SOs will eat your funds like nothing else

[FupDup]

I like slotting IO sets as early as possible to start building up set bonuses. Sometimes I might use a placeholder set until I reach the level threshold for what I wanted in the finished build, if necessary. Thankfully ATOs, Winters, PVPs, and Overwhelming Force can be slotted at level 7. When you're done, you can unslot them and put them in your SG base for the next alt to make use of. 

 

PVPs in particular often give you a little bit of KB protection at 3 slots, which can let you deal with low-level knocks before your proper KB protection powers come online. 

 

EDIT: Also, for attack powers in early levels you can lean on the 5 free prestige enhancements that can be picked up at P2W. 

Edited December 23, 2023 by FupDup

[srmalloy]

The problem is that low-level IOs have been nerfed into the floor. Back on Live, you could do the Invention tutorial at 12, and the 15 and 20 IOs were a noticeable step up before you could slot SOs at 22. Now, you can slot SOs at 2, and a 15 common IO is a - 1DO - hardly worth slotting. What we need is a more uniform scaling that makes low-level commons worth slotting again.

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by srmalloy

[Yomo Kimyata]

TOs no longer drop, which means that DOs and SOs are dropping instead, which are worth much more to the vendors.  Sell the enhancements you get and buy the ones you need.  It's not rocket surgery.

[Frozen Burn]

Cost of SOs do not need to be lowered.  For new player or new toon (that doesn't have a sugar daddy/momma), SOs are not that necessary in the low levels.  Yes, they are great to have, but the game is built to still be done with DOs in the low levels while you earn cash through other means as well to eventually buy SOs, and then eventually IOs.

 

What gets me is, the OP says they even gave their newbie toon 20 million inf and still wants SO cost lowered.  Clearly, they have means of getting inf and they just want another "easy" button.  I generally give my new toons 5 million and that is enough to sustain them till they make their own money and update their SOs or start buying / crafting IOs.  Sometimes, I don't give money at all to a new toon for concept / roleplaying reasons.  It's completely doable as is even if you do not have any seed money at all.

 

A hard NO from me on this request.  

 

 

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, Frozen Burn said:

Cost of SOs do not need to be lowered.  For new player or new toon (that doesn't have a sugar daddy/momma), SOs are not that necessary in the low levels.  Yes, they are great to have, but the game is built to still be done with DOs in the low levels while you earn cash through other means as well to eventually buy SOs, and then eventually IOs.

 

What gets me is, the OP says they even gave their newbie toon 20 million inf and still wants SO cost lowered.  Clearly, they have means of getting inf and they just want another "easy" button.  I generally give my new toons 5 million and that is enough to sustain them till they make their own money and update their SOs or start buying / crafting IOs.  Sometimes, I don't give money at all to a new toon for concept / roleplaying reasons.  It's completely doable as is even if you do not have any seed money at all.

 

A hard NO from me on this request.  

 

 

Aren't the low levels still balanced around TOs? Which means the random drop DOs are already much stronger than the game at levels 1-20 were really meant for? (Since as @GM Impervium pointed out, the +8% boost from TOs went mostly unnoticed in things like damage? [Which would show as 11 damage instead of 10 damage for doing 10.8 damage. 100% of 10 is 10. 10% is 1. And 1% is .1. So 8% is .8])

[biostem]

I'd much prefer to see lower level story arcs grant some level-appropriate generic IOs as rewards, as that low level character won't quickly outlevel them, (boy I used "level" a lot).  Constantly having to buy SOs ever 3 levels or so can quickly get expensive, but a few generic IOs would go a lot farther...

[Rudra]

15 minutes ago, biostem said:

I'd much prefer to see lower level story arcs grant some level-appropriate generic IOs as rewards, as that low level character won't quickly outlevel them, (boy I used "level" a lot).  Constantly having to buy SOs ever 3 levels or so can quickly get expensive, but a few generic IOs would go a lot farther...

Generic IOs have a starting level of 10, so they can't be slotted until level 7. And they have a crafting cost of 2,400 to 3,400 for the ones I just checked. (Accuracy, Defense, and Damage.) Assuming the character does story arcs and indoor missions for the completion rewards and can get some drops, they can start crafting them at level 7 without any major fuss. Especially if they sell most of the DOs they get as drops and the rare salvage they may get. (Though they should make sure to sell the rare salvage on the AH.) And they get a free one of their choice at level 10 if they go to any university of their faction and do the invention system tutorial. (Though I don't remember which ones are available as the free choice.)

 

(Edit: So if they chose, they can already slot generic IOs which they can never out-level as early as level 7 until they are ready to get SOs or set IOs.)

Edited December 23, 2023 by Rudra

[biostem]

1 hour ago, Rudra said:

Generic IOs have a starting level of 10, so they can't be slotted until level 7. And they have a crafting cost of 2,400 to 3,400 for the ones I just checked. (Accuracy, Defense, and Damage.) Assuming the character does story arcs and indoor missions for the completion rewards and can get some drops, they can start crafting them at level 7 without any major fuss. Especially if they sell most of the DOs they get as drops and the rare salvage they may get. (Though they should make sure to sell the rare salvage on the AH.) And they get a free one of their choice at level 10 if they go to any university of their faction and do the invention system tutorial. (Though I don't remember which ones are available as the free choice.)

 

(Edit: So if they chose, they can already slot generic IOs which they can never out-level as early as level 7 until they are ready to get SOs or set IOs.)

None of what you said discredits generic IOs being a better reward option for low level characters than the DOs or SOs they may be getting now, at least in terms of something more than then 3 or so levels that said DO or SO may provide a better buff value...

[Rudra]

3 minutes ago, biostem said:

None of what you said discredits generic IOs being a better reward option for low level characters than the DOs or SOs they may be getting now, at least in terms of something more than then 3 or so levels that said DO or SO may provide a better buff value...

Nor was I trying to. The point I was trying to make is that DOs (and I think SOs) can drop as early as level 1 now. Generic IOs aren't available until level 7. You can vendor trash a level 1 Fly DO for 150 inf' and a level 1 Accuracy DO for 230 inf'. (I just checked.) Factor in the inf' rewards (if you aren't using double xp) and mission rewards, by the time the character is level 7, (s)he/they/it can slot level 10 generic IOs into their most critical powers. Especially if they go to a university and do the tutorial for the free IO. So all I am saying, is people can already slot generic IOs. (I'm more than willing to bet since we can already get DOs starting at level 1, the difficulty is still scaled for TOs at the low levels, and we can still clear all the low level content without any enhancements at all at least up until level 10; you're not ever going to see generic IOs as drops except as recipes.)

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Nor was I trying to. The point I was trying to make is that DOs (and I think SOs) can drop as early as level 1 now. Generic IOs aren't available until level 7. You can vendor trash a level 1 Fly DO for 150 inf' and a level 1 Accuracy DO for 230 inf'. (I just checked.) Factor in the inf' rewards (if you aren't using double xp) and mission rewards, by the time the character is level 7, (s)he/they/it can slot level 10 generic IOs into their most critical powers. Especially if they go to a university and do the tutorial for the free IO. So all I am saying, is people can already slot generic IOs. (I'm more than willing to bet since we can already get DOs starting at level 1, the difficulty is still scaled for TOs at the low levels, and we can still clear all the low level content without any enhancements at all at least up until level 10; you're not ever going to see generic IOs as drops except as recipes.)

It shouldn't be that difficult to make level 1-9 generic IOs, then, especially since they did just that for DOs...