How do you folks build? Do you make a 50++ build in mids as a starting point or some variation of a leveling build?

[UltraAlt]

On 6/6/2024 at 11:45 AM, mistagoat said:

Greetings! I'm curious how folks build. The vast majority of builds that can be found on these forums are maxed out 50+ builds with full Incarnates, purples, superiors and the kitchen sink! That makes sense, you want to see what the build is capable of at the highest level but those aren't very useful when you're leveling up.  

 

There is a good percentage of the community that only play level 50's. There is no leveling up. There is zoning into the game and getting power-leveled to 50 before anything else happens. There is only the end-built or multiple level 50 builds.

 

On 6/6/2024 at 11:45 AM, mistagoat said:

For myself, I used to just suck it up but swapped to making solid functional builds with no Incarnates/purps/superiors for the leveling up process.

 

On 6/6/2024 at 11:45 AM, mistagoat said:

I find myself enjoying the leveling up more than the post 50 stuff these days so I have to really enjoy it to justify blinging it out.

 

I made a couple of 50's after repeated peer pressure from a friend. They hit 50 by leveling up.

I have no intent of leveling up any other characters to level 50.

I enjoy the leveling process and will be level-locking/turning off XP at level 49 or below on all my characters.

 

On 6/6/2024 at 11:45 AM, mistagoat said:

Do you guys just level up on SOs, do you make a leveling build, do you build towards that uber build or something else entirely?

 

I'm a character conception player, so I'm not "creating" any builds. I don't use mids.

I level up my character based on character conception and do my best to only pick powers that fit within that character conception.

I rarely /respec.

 

I'm not trying to mini-max or cookie-cutter in anyway. Each character is unique.

 

I like exploring the game mechanics. Limiting my choices to what people consider to be the "best" would narrow that exploration significantly. 

 

 

[Krimson]

15 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

There is a good percentage of the community that only play level 50's. There is no leveling up. There is zoning into the game and getting power-leveled to 50 before anything else happens. There is only the end-built or multiple level 50 builds.

While all my toons are level 50, and I do PL myself, I have made quite a few builds that are made to scale and do lower-level content. I do this by selecting my powers in Mids based on how I would select them in the game. The only thing I have slotted that uses boosters instead of catalysts to attune them is the generic IOs I slot into things that don't take sets. I understand what you are saying though, that there are players that want to do high-end content and nothing else. I like my builds to be a bit more versatile. That's why my farms and farmers are Smashing/Lethal. I don't optimize my farmers for farming, I optimize them for general content so I can take them into any mission. I wish more players did that.

 

I think I have 28 toons, and they all have tier 3 Incarnates, and half are fully Incarnate. When I make a toon, I plan to play the thing for at least 100 hours. So each one I make has a purpose and a leveling plan. Sometimes that plan entails soloing missions, sometimes it involves me farming myself. It depends on what I want to do with the build and how quickly I want to do it. 

 

One thing I do with each build is I like to cap Smashing/Lethal Resistance first. Maybe some other kind of resistance as well if it is convenient to do so. Then I try and bring up Defense, depending on the kind of sets I have to choose from. I know people want a magic number of 45+ for farming, but 32 plus a purple Good Luck or two will get the job done just fine. Capping Smashing/Lethal Res is quite a bit easier on squishies since they cap at 75%. It's still worth it though, especially if you have some sort of heal power to help mitigate the damage that does get through. My Corruptor main, Blue Idoru, gets by on 65% Res and 36ish Def because Transfusion is that good. 

 

Of course, you want to slot the usual suspects to get your boosts to Resistance, Defense, and Accuracy, as well as LOTG procs. I seldom use Hasten in a build. I think I took it in two builds, one is my Dominator. I prefer to just check recharge times in Mids and do some head math to figure out attack chains. Maybe take some pool powers to pad out the flow.

 

I don't really use Winter Enhancements in builds either. Sometimes I use purple sets in a few powers to get that sweet Accuracy boost. I don't use Hami-Os or D-Syncs either. I just slot with regular orange and sometimes yellow sets, though I usually do six-slot the ATOs. 

 

The reason I optimize for general content is that, when I'm farming, I don't care about DPS except that it's good enough. I see these farmers sit around in AE for hours chatting in channels and not even idle farming, and they are generating zero DPS during that time, so my generalized builds are fine for my laid-back style of play, which happens to have spurts of aggression directed at bosses. For one, rewards in farming aren't as good as they used to be, so I only do it when I have a toon I am working on with a specific goal in mind. Usually, that's making the 50 and maybe unlocking the Incarnate slots. Once the toon is slotted, I don't need to PL anymore. As for INF, I just want to have enough on me to be able to slot a new 50 if I want, and I made 6 in the last two years, and zero this year. I'm weird that way, I don't make alt after alt. I like to see a build through to completion, or at least Tier 3 Incarnates.

 

One big reason for general builds is places like Dark Astoria, The Wards, The Rikti War Zone, and even Radio Missions. I like running missions in those Zones. I dunno, I like versatility and not being limited to what missions I can bring a toon into, even if it's low level.

[tidge]

13 hours ago, Crysis said:

I don’t think I’ve slotted a single DO/SO since IO’s were introduced.  Levels 1-25 go by so fast that I’ve never found the time or need to do so.  I generally outfit all new alts with generic IO’s until their late 20’s and then start swapping for sets in the 30’s.  Uniques are the exceptions to this however….Panacea, Numina etc.

 

I am similar. I've slotted DO/SO from drops when I am taking the lowest levels particularly slowly, but otherwise by level 10 I am either slotting attuned pieces (starting with ATO, PVP, O-Force, Steadfast Protections, Kismet, whatever) or trying to grab crafted low level IOs... again, only if I think I will be spending a lot of time in a certain level range. By level 20 I am fully committed to using catalyzed enhancements.

 

If for some reason I don't have the pieces I want on hand, or otherwise don't want to slot an enhancement set as a placeholder for what will be a HO, DSync, 50+5 Boosted piece, or Purple set at level 50, I will use level 25, 30, 45 or 50 IOs that I craft along the way.

 

[ZemX]

14 hours ago, Crysis said:

I don’t think I’ve slotted a single DO/SO since IO’s were introduced.  Levels 1-25 go by so fast that I’ve never found the time or need to do so.  I generally outfit all new alts with generic IO’s until their late 20’s and then start swapping for sets in the 30’s.  Uniques are the exceptions to this however….Panacea, Numina etc.

 

Oddly enough, it's Common IOs I hardly use anymore.  Between SOs being available now all the way down to Level 2 and that "Upgrade" button on the enhancement window, nothing is faster or more convenient than slotting SOs while leveling 1-25.  Nor is anything else more effective except possibly frankenslotting multi-aspect set IOs which I think is hardly worth the effort or expense.  Common IOs don't begin to equal SO enhancement values until around level 25, and from 25-30 is when I start moving straight to attuned set IOs, meaning I skip Commons entirely except for specific powers that will never get anything else (Recharge in Haste, Endurance in Focused Accuracy, stuff like that).  And of course, like you said, those uniques and one-slot wonder procs are an exception.

[johua]

I'm one of the aforementioned farmers. I power level to 50 and kit myself out. I also never really do exemplar content so I don't catalyze my builds or anything like that.

[Ravenplume]

Nowadays, I typically don't even bother and just use SOs to 50, unless I have Winters, ATOs, PVPs, or Overwhelming Forces available (or I remember that I have them in base)

 

I also, when I build now, try to do it without a respec, just working with what I already have  I see what sets are available for that type of power, and if there are any set bonuses that may be useful to me, then that power gets however many pieces of that set it can hold, at least up to where the target bonus comes into play.

 

Heck, got several that are well into incarnates now and STILL are on mostly SOs.

[Digirium]

What would help is if the Flashback system was changed to allow team members to come and go after the story arc was started. Unless Flashback is being used to run an old retired task force it should not treat the content available with the same rule as a task force (not allowing the leader to invite after the start).

 

I am in the same camp as others go direct to 50 via help from a specialized farming character on another account. It is direct, it is effective, it is efficient. No messing around with level 20, 30 or 40 builds. I would still like to play the lower level content but feel put off with the limitations on Flashback.

 

Repeatedly leveling up to 50 the old fashioned and now practically antiquated method leads only to burnout and quitting.

 

And that is probably the #1 reason so many of the +1 January 2024 new players have quit.

 

 

 

Edited June 12 by Digirium

[Uun]

2 hours ago, Digirium said:

Repeatedly leveling up to 50 the old fashioned and now practically antiquated method leads only to burnout and quitting.

Speak for yourself. I've been playing since a few months after launch and have been on HC since day #2. I don't farm or PL and only level organically. The game doesn't start at lvl 50. I enjoy playing the content at its intended level.

[Digirium]

12 minutes ago, Uun said:

Speak for yourself. I've been playing since a few months after launch and have been on HC since day #2. I don't farm or PL and only level organically. The game doesn't start at lvl 50. I enjoy playing the content at its intended level.

 

 

Well, bravo but you are "speaking for yourself" you need to acknowledge the other point of view I expressed is shared many times in this post.

[JKCarrier]

I don't know the system well enough to use Mids, so I generally just wing it. I might look at a build online, but as OP pointed out, it's rare to find ones that aren't purpled-out endgame builds.
I mostly solo and just run regular missions.

I use SOs until level 20 or so, then switch to generic IOs, which I replace every 10-15 levels. If I'm having trouble with endurance, I might throw a proc in Stamina. If I feel like it, and have Inf to burn, I might throw a few sets in random powers. No idea what I'm doing.
Most characters get retired at level 50. I have one character, a Mace/Shield Brute, that I dragged through the Incarnate system long enough to put something in each of his slots. Wasn't much fun, though, so I probably won't do that again. Since I put so much work into him, I pull him back out occasionally to see how many badges I can get for him.
Basically, I'm about as lazy/casual as you can get.

[Krimson]

1 hour ago, JKCarrier said:

I don't know the system well enough to use Mids, so I generally just wing it. I might look at a build online, but as OP pointed out, it's rare to find ones that aren't purpled-out endgame builds.
I mostly solo and just run regular missions.

I use SOs until level 20 or so, then switch to generic IOs, which I replace every 10-15 levels. If I'm having trouble with endurance, I might throw a proc in Stamina. If I feel like it, and have Inf to burn, I might throw a few sets in random powers. No idea what I'm doing.
Most characters get retired at level 50. I have one character, a Mace/Shield Brute, that I dragged through the Incarnate system long enough to put something in each of his slots. Wasn't much fun, though, so I probably won't do that again. Since I put so much work into him, I pull him back out occasionally to see how many badges I can get for him.
Basically, I'm about as lazy/casual as you can get.

That's how you learn it. I'm only good at making builds because I had three months of lockdown to learn it. 

[tidge]

16 hours ago, JKCarrier said:

I don't know the system well enough to use Mids, so I generally just wing it. I might look at a build online, but as OP pointed out, it's rare to find ones that aren't purpled-out endgame builds.

 

For the most part, I think anyone could use a "purpled-out end game build" and use it as a leveling up build, at least in terms of power selections, with some caveats:

1. Replace purples with other sets (Overwhelming Force, PVP) are my choices, or often I just use IOs 
2. Replace Superior with non-superiors
3. Pay attention to slots, especially if your leveling build won't get bonuses... so maybe not immediately 6-slot all the attacks in the order you get them?
4. Endurance/Recovery is pretty important while leveling up, before accolades, power slotting, and set bonuses
5. Some faction of the time I take different pool choices while leveling, but that is either because of experimentation or the build has different needs before set bonuses can come into play.
6. Some end-game builds may have a minimal set of attacks and rely upon global +Recharge to make the build work. This is an area where a player has to learn by experience... but if you only see 3 attacks taken before level 25... that is probably not a good leveling up build.

There are some posted builds that make IMO poor choices for exemplaring or leveling, such as Hasten before level 16 (at low levels, faster cycling powers are not necessary), or no travel power (less critical because of purchasable powers, but it is something of a Quality-of-Life issue for the player and teammates).

 

I don't think it is reasonable for players to post more than one build to represent multiple choices for levels below 50. Writing for myself: Any non-purple/non-HO pieces in a build I post (i.e. normally crafted Enhancements) are pretty much the same ones I use while leveling up. The only corner case I can think of are those pieces that I boost at level 50 will be attuned variants while leveling.

[Azari]

On 6/6/2024 at 12:47 PM, KC4800 said:

I don't use mids. All my builds are by feel. I don't use others' builds, either. I will, however, take heart in comments others make about certain powers, that might make me change slotting.

 

I try to keep an open mind and learn from others.

 

I start every build with SO's and use the upgrade button. I can do that now because I have enough resources to share influence between alts. It wasn't always that way, but it doesn't take long to get that way, for sure.

 

As soon as I get some slots in key powers I look to adding the Archtype sets. Lots of really good set bonuses there that double when you hit 50 and catalyze them.

I collect various people’s mids builds and sometimes I do try them out but I seldom leave them as-is and often gradually mod them until they are nearly unrecognizable as the same build XD.  I use mids builds more as inspiration than anything.   It’s a good way to learn sets you’ve never used before and can save you a lot of mistakes.  

Edited June 13 by Azari

[Harlequin565]

I tend to build in Mids first to see how it will look and get a sense for how it will play at 50. 

 

As I level, I buy attuned IOs when they become available. There are quite a few you can start slotting at level 10 which is super quick to get to. ATIOs if I'm getting them go in early attacks (respeccing out later if needed). Anything that needs the highest level IOs (27/32/50) gets placeholders prior to that, which are often drops that I just craft & slot. When I reach 50, if necessary, I'll respec out the stuff I don't need, convert & sell. 

 

I think it probably depends on your levelling speed. I tend to do a mix of good story arcs (Faultline, Croatoa) and TFs which makes levelling to about 35 pretty quick. By that time, I can start slotting attuned IOs for an endgame build with the sole exception of purples.

[Carnifax]

On 6/12/2024 at 3:42 AM, Crysis said:

I don’t think I’ve slotted a single DO/SO since IO’s were introduced.  Levels 1-25 go by so fast that I’ve never found the time or need to do so.  I generally outfit all new alts with generic IO’s until their late 20’s and then start swapping for sets in the 30’s.  Uniques are the exceptions to this however….Panacea, Numina etc.

This is me. I make a cheapish IO build and start slotting from 27 (other than the uniques and ATOs which go in earlier). I'll also make a more expensive 50 build. When I hit 50 I'll decide if I want to go the Winters & Purples route, but that's only if I'm really liking the build and it'll add a lot. 

 

It's fun and late-30s IO builds can be pretty godly for the content. Feels good to be 37ish and be like "holy crap, can't believe I'm still alive"

[Sovera]

On 6/12/2024 at 11:09 PM, JKCarrier said:

I don't know the system well enough to use Mids, so I generally just wing it. I might look at a build online, but as OP pointed out, it's rare to find ones that aren't purpled-out endgame builds.
I mostly solo and just run regular missions.

I use SOs until level 20 or so, then switch to generic IOs, which I replace every 10-15 levels. If I'm having trouble with endurance, I might throw a proc in Stamina. If I feel like it, and have Inf to burn, I might throw a few sets in random powers. No idea what I'm doing.
Most characters get retired at level 50. I have one character, a Mace/Shield Brute, that I dragged through the Incarnate system long enough to put something in each of his slots. Wasn't much fun, though, so I probably won't do that again. Since I put so much work into him, I pull him back out occasionally to see how many badges I can get for him.
Basically, I'm about as lazy/casual as you can get.

 

As long as you have Mids you can at least have an idea of how things are meant to go and where. So it's a start, one you then modify according to how you play.

 

The thing with leveling builds is that they are the same as the end-game builds so they rarely get a section all for themselves. Three recharge into Hasten or Build-up instead of two. Got a purple in an AoE? Slot Obliterations in it until level 50. A purple in a melee attack? Slot Touch of Death until 50. A purple in a ranged attack? Slot a Decimation until 50.

 

Of course this does entail the person even knowing about these, but because it is again so common (like for example, just this facile example above) that the first time it is mentioned it is now no longer having to be repeated for the next time a build has a level 50 purple slotted in a melee attack.

 

(Before anyone jumps on me I do always offer to make leveling builds for builds I post)

 

 

There is also that once having enough cash (and one's own SG with enhancement tables to bank the IOs) leveling builds become a thing of 'slot all ATOs at level 10' which immediately gets two attacks with a full load, then throwing a Panaceia proc into Health fills that slot and usually is not thought about until 50 unless playing something endurance starved. Because these can be slotted at level 10 it's not uncommon to slot the normal event IOs (Blistering Cold, Avalanche, etc) since these can be slotted in at level 10 as well and there is no more need to thing about those until level 50.

 

All of this turn leveling into 'slot whatever fits in'.

 

 

Anyways, this is all stuff we pick up after months if not years of playing the game. I say when you do find those builds on the forums to just ask if someone will make a leveling build for it and I think there's a good chance that someone will.

[Black Zot]

I always make a 50 build in Mids and work towards that as I level.  The respec interface in this game makes me want to vomit.

[Lusiphur Malache]

Curiosity drives all my builds. Is this AT as broken as people say or does that powerset have no flow to it. I need to find out.

 

First 10 levels are just to see if my play style works with the build. Next 10 are usually "what does this do" levels. Slot SOs, find skippable powers, stop soloing so much and teaming more.

 

Hopefully I have a clue to what I'm doing by 30. If I haven't respeced yet things must be going well. I do a respec at 32 to switch from SOs to IOs. Do patron arc before 35 so I can try my new power on that first ITF. Slot sets when I can until 50 when I do another respec before doing a disgusting number of Itrails and interesting missions that I'm not familiar with.

 

Recently I've been hate watching a stream with players who builds leave me scratching my head. I've made builds trying to see where they went wrong.

Edited July 15 by Lusiphur Malache

[Ukase]

On 6/6/2024 at 4:34 PM, Luminara said:

I make liberal use of the middle-click function

I was ignorant of this function. Thanks. 

[DougGraves]

I make a character and play them to 21.  Then I turn off XP.   I then slot them with SOs and play them to evaluate their powers.

 

I respec them and may create an alternate build as essentially another respec.

 

When I am satisfied with the build I delete them and remake them and replay them to level 21 then turn off XP.

 

Most of the time I just use the build that I made as I leveled. Sometimes I respec because when you respec you can put more slots into the last powers you got.

[Without_Pause]

I do far more of just tossing in whatever IOs I have at those levels and eventually I will pop a respec once I know the character better. Even if I plan a build out in Mid's, I think one of the last builds I finalized took 5+ passes to finally figure out, and it took playing the build with Incarnates to do final configuration. 

[JJDrakken]

How do I do my builds?  Use Mid's Reborn and whatever concept I came up in my head. I always have a theme/concept before I decide on a build.

 

They usually go here:

 

 

[Crysis]

I should also point out that I’ve learned a BUNCH of game mechanics simply through MIDS.  During the “dark years” MIDS (old MIDS) would often be my idle time waster as I’d try different slotting strategies/power selections/pool selections and then use the various MIDS settings like “show values when attacked.”  That’s how I sort of discovered how much more potent a Stalker could be than even a Scrapper using the same powersets from a ST DPS perspective, but also how much less +DEF you have than you think out of stealth/hide.  Mids wasn’t/isn’t always correct in its values, but it really helps to understand what’s happening with your build in certain situations or versus certain critter attack types.

 

It’s not a replacement for playing the game, but it certainly is a valuable tool for simulating a build.  Of course, with the way the test server works, I don’t know why more people don’t just take their MIDS builds straight there, kit them out, and test them ‘live.’  But once you’ve sort’ve mastered MIDS, you find that theory-crafting is kind of a fun mini-game unto itself.

[Bio-Link]

never used mids, or builds, i use a few days to think of concept and power sets, then run it to 20-30 level to get a feel for it and scrap/respec, then run to 50. after i got all the incarnate unlocked, i respec for end game stuff. i go mostly by feel, so have to run alot of content to really get it setup.

[Ultimo]

Usually, I plan a character in Mids to L50, using only SOs.  I don't want to waste what little influence I have on IOs or sets that I'm going to outlevel, so I just use SOs until I get to 50 (though, none of my characters are there yet).