yOu ShOuLD cHaNGe kNoCkBAck to KnoCKdoWN!

[Nemu]

If we alternate between farming and KB posts we can keep all the shitposters occupied for the rest of eternity.

[Riverdusk]

My favorite knockback moment is in Posi 1 at the City Hall doors.  Constantly slamming the ambush waves coming out of the doors back into them.  Never gets old.  I make sure to stock up on and use the START plasmatic taser temp power (aka energy torrent) in that situation if I don't have a knockback power of my own.

 

 

[Bionic_Flea]

9 minutes ago, Nemu said:

If we alternate between farming and KB posts we can keep all the shitposters occupied for the rest of eternity.

 

If you really want to freak someone out, use maximum AoE knockback on a farmer's nice neat scrum.  Oh, the humanity!

 

32 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Apply "Grant Power" (all affected targets) Temporary_Powers.Temporary_Powers.Knocked

 

Knocked

100% chance

(α * Melee/Ranged_Knockback) points of Smashing damage (self) after β seconds

if target>enttype eq 'critter'

 

α = KB magnitude * 0.1 (or 0.01, or 1.0, or 867.5309, whatever variable gives an appropriate result)

β = time between successful attack roll and post-KB impact (the engine already calculates how far something travels and how long it takes to get there when affected by KB, so this doesn't even need any extra CPU time, just pass the temporal value to β)

 

Not only possible, easy.

 

Oh yeah?  Well then . . .

 

 

[Scarlet Shocker]

I love Knockback as a power. It's great for mitigation and controlling the battlefield.

 

The biggest issue with it is when a ranged player (eg Energy Blaster) targets through a melee toon and blasts that opponent into the distance.

 

We need less knockdown and more knockback

[lemming]

5 hours ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

Going back to the OP, when I get chastised for using KB I tell them not to worry about it -- if I knock it, I kill it. 

This is my way.   Cleanup after my own messes. 

[PeregrineFalcon]

7 hours ago, Greycat said:

Any power can be disruptive. Ice slick can keep mobs from joining an AOE. AOE Immobs, holds and fears can string out mobs to keep them from being grouped up. Caltrops can slow them down or make them scatter, as can burn. Taunts can pull mobs away from someone who needs those mobs for a buff/heal/defense. Or, properly played, they can be *useful* tools. Knockback is no different, other than having some "Grr always evil hate hate hate won't hear anything else" zealots.

As Greycat points out there are plenty of powers and effects that can cause issues but, for some reason, knockback is the only effect that evokes such blind anger on the forum. That being the case it should occur to people that the emotional backlash to KB's mere existence on their team may not be entirely rational. Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Bottom line: if people in game are giving you grief about KB your best bet is either to kick them, or yourself, from the team. I wouldn't even bother trying to discuss it with them. The anti-KB crowd has proven immune to rational discussion.

[lemming]

And of course, one can always add a bit more.  Especially when playing Hellion Golf in Perez.

[Sovera]

Yes, I agree. It should be changed. Thanks for bringing it up.

[UltraAlt]

9 hours ago, ScarySai said:

That's certainly an opinion.

That is what an assumption is.

 

If you have facts to prove that a majority of players are concerned with clear speeds over everything else, please provide those facts.

And if that is the case, why not set everything at -1/x0?

 

If you read my posts, I clearly indicate that those with knockback need to work to use it responsibly. 

My responsible use knockback hasn't been criticized by a team since before I stopped slotting knockback to knockdown enhancements, but it may very well be that I have put the less than 30 players (ignore cap) that like to complain about knockback in-game on ignore.

[UltraAlt]

5 hours ago, Ravenplume said:

If rolling a Brute, Taunt is optional and only if there is nothing better to take. 

 

I can agree that Brutes are more scraper than tank and are constructed entirely for hulk-smash mode intentionally.

 

5 hours ago, Ravenplume said:

The Brute itself IS the taunt.  🙂

 

This I really can't agree with. They simply don't hold the kind of threat that tanks can even with their taunt.

But I can see that this would be believed by one that is playing a brute and focusing on continually fighting versus paying attention to anything else.

[BurtHutt]

I do not make a toon with KB unless I slot KB to KD IO in the power(s). KB can be handy but I find it annoying.

 

If a team suggests you get that IO for your KB power, don't get all....butthurt.... :)..... There's no rule about having to do it but there is etiquette and courtesy. You can always say I'd rather not take it and I like my KB. I know I've been on teams and informed the KB player of the IO and they just quit. I wasn't rude or anything - I thought maybe they're new or didn't know. 

 

Anyway...

[Haijinx]

Here we go again ...

[SeraphimKensai]

7 hours ago, Seed22 said:

Snark aside, the mods have been pretty chill from what I’ve seen, if anything I think they could be a little heavy handed on some discussions but overall not overtly biased.

Honestly that's been my impression as well. A few conversations with a couple GMs and Devs over the years and they seem like good enough people to drink a beer with while chatting about the game lore or theory crafting.

[Luminara]

5 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Here we go again ...

 

On our owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn.

Going down the only road we've ever knowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn!

 

[macskull]

6 hours ago, Lunar Ronin said:

I actually agree with you that it would be nice for Group Fly to be disabled by default, and it was brought up during the Page 2 beta IIRC.  However, it was stated by Powerhouse that doing so would also disable Group Fly for henchmen as well, making the power essentially useless.  So people are just going to have to get used to talking with Null the Gull for a few extra seconds while changing alignment.  I do it on every single character I make.  If I can do it, so can everyone else.

It’s not impossible to disable it by default, it would just require a little more work - like, giving players the Power_DisallowGroupFly token by default. Pets would still be affected, so this is an “everyone wins” scenario.

 

”If I have to go out of my way and remember to do this thing so a rarely-taken power doesn’t affect me, so can everyone else” isn’t a great argument either. Just because you’re okay with being inconvenienced doesn’t mean everyone else needs to be.

[Bionic_Flea]

18 minutes ago, macskull said:

”If I have to go out of my way and remember to do this thing so a rarely-taken power doesn’t affect me, so can everyone else” isn’t a great argument either.

 

Why can't we get a /command or options setting where we could set group fly preference on the fly (pun) instead of having to visit Null?  I think there's a reason, but I can't remember what it is.

[Lunar Ronin]

19 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

Why can't we get a /command or options setting where we could set group fly preference on the fly (pun) instead of having to visit Null?  I think there's a reason, but I can't remember what it is.

 

Because it's a granted power, not a setting.

[Glacier Peak]

There's already a flight travel power that only affects self and it's called Fly. If Group Fly only affected self by default, it should be renamed to "Consent to Group Fly" so as not to confuse the player base.

 

Or change to...

 

Socially Awkward Fly

 

Nobody Wants to Fly

 

Fly, but turned off by default

 

Fly... my god that endurance saved by not having to carry all these other players!

 

Speaking of such nonsense, does knockback convert it's affect to knockdown if the target is flying? If so, does the time being "knocked" change any?

Edited Wednesday at 03:03 AM by Glacier Peak
this is satire 🔱🔥

[Jacke]

I've not read all of the posts here, but I do think about KB.  I try to fit in one of the two KB->KD IOs in AoE attacks with significant chance of significant KB.  But I don't do it in all such attacks, especially ST ones with well under 100% chance of KB, due to needing certain enhancement sets and not having room for a KB->KD IO.

 

I'm contemplating making an Energy Blast Toon sometime in the future.  That Powerset has 100% chance for significant KB in all of its attacks.  Maybe I could afford the KB->KD tax on AoE attacks, but on all of the ST attacks ?!?

 

I figure I'd better make an Energy Blast Blaster, inclining more to staying at range, with a Secondary who's Tier 1 Immobilization attack actually suppresses KB to KD....  Ie. has an effect in CoD2 saying something like "+10000% Knockup, Knockback Resistance (all affected targets) for 15s ".

 

That's only 8 of the 15 current Blaster Secondaries (with only some of them also having -Fly):

• Atomic Manipulation
• Devices
• Earth Manipulation
• Electricity Manipulation
• Fire Manipulation
• Ice Manipulation
• Plant Manipulation
• Tactical Arrow

I've got a number of Devices Blasters already.  And I only pair Tactical Arrow with Archery (which I already have).  Going for the fastest Cast Arcanatime of 1.32s cuts out Earth and Plant as well.  So that's down to 4: Atomic, Electricity, Fire, and Ice.

 

I'm inclined to go with an Energy/Atomic Blaster, with Atomic having 2 Buff/Debuff Toggles (one of them being the zero-cost Sustain) and 2 ST Ranged attacks, with using both ST attacks producing a secondary effect of more ranged AoE damage.  With its version of Build Up (Ionize), that's 5 Secondary Powers, leaving more room for flexibility in the rest of the build.

 

 

52 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Speaking of such nonsense, does knockback convert it's affect to knockdown if the target is flying? If so, does the time being "knocked" change any?

 

If the KB power doesn't have a -Fly effect, the flying target spins around and stays flying, but still loses the same amount of time as if on the ground and KB'ed.  This applies to both Toons and Mobs.

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 03:51 AM by Jacke

[ScarySai]

3 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

If you have facts to prove that a majority of players are concerned with clear speeds over everything else, please provide those facts.

I don't have to prove something that's self evident, due to the thread you're actively participating in.

[Jacke]

3 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

If you have facts to prove that a majority of players are concerned with clear speeds over everything else, please provide those facts.

 

As @ScarySai says, that's darn near self evident.  As well concerning KB, everyone dislikes having their targets knocked out of range, out of patches, ie., screwing up their gameplay and causing delays.

 

3 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

And if that is the case, why not set everything at -1/x0?

 

Because sometimes Players care about getting more XP + Inf / Time and their Toons can take more Notoriety than that.  -1x1 is only for when the non-XP/non-Inf goals are foremost and keeping time to an absolute minimum is desired.

[UltraAlt]

46 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

I don't have to prove something that's self evident, due to the thread you're actively participating in.

 

In no way is it evident that a majority of players are considered primarily with completion speed of missions.

That isn't even what this thread is about.

 

 

 

 

[UltraAlt]

40 minutes ago, Jacke said:

As @ScarySai says, that's darn near self evident.

 

No, it isn't.

 

I play on plenty of PUGs and there is no great concerns for mission completion speed for those that are not playing level 50's that are only trying to speed through everything.

 

42 minutes ago, Jacke said:

As well concerning KB, everyone dislikes having their targets knocked out of range, out of patches, ie., screwing up their gameplay and causing delays.

 

This isn't true either.

I for one am fine with knockback. 

 

Claiming absolutes shows a lack of understanding.

 

44 minutes ago, Jacke said:

-1x1 is only for when the non-XP/non-Inf goals are foremost and keeping time to an absolute minimum is desired.

 

Like when level 50s are running WTF just for the merits?

 

45 minutes ago, Jacke said:

Because sometimes Players care about getting more XP + Inf / Time and their Toons can take more Notoriety than that.

 

Then they are not primarily concerned about their completion time, are they?

 

But you would claim that the primary concern is completion speed is self-evident.

 

Your logic is flawed.

[ScarySai]

48 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

In no way is it evident that a majority of players are considered primarily with completion speed of missions.

That isn't even what this thread is about.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, not everyone can succeed with the perception roll, I guess.

[Jacke]

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

I play on plenty of PUGs and there is no great concerns for mission completion speed for those that are not playing level 50's that are only trying to speed through everything.

 

Just because they're not doing a timed speed run doesn't mean there's no end to other Players' tolerance for things that cause delays and frustrations.

 

Players are generally tolerant.  They're usually not on a tight timer.  That doesn't mean they won't get irritated by actions that keep delaying things or otherwise frustrate them.  Like excessive and massive KB.

 

Keep pushing the envelop and discover there's soft limits that will become hard, with consequences.

 

 

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

I for one am fine with knockback.

 

Okay everyone, time to roll, level, and slot those unrestrained Energy/Energy Blasters.  In fact, boost that KB!  Let's see how long UltraAlt lasts.  😺

 

 

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

Claiming absolutes shows a lack of understanding.

 

You're the one claiming an absolute.  I'm saying there's a limit to how much screwing around other Players will put up, like massive amounts of KB.

 

 

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

Like when level 50s are running WTF just for the merits?

 

Which Task Force is "WTF" ?  😺

 

 

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

Then they are not primarily concerned about their completion time, are they?

 

But you would claim that the primary concern is completion speed is self-evident.

 

Your logic is flawed.

 

I look at the general speed at which content in City is now run and I rue that I can't fit Vengeance into every build and need Radiation Emission for Fallout.  Because a lot of them are run like I was back with Faithful Fans of Fallout and we pushed it hard in a crazed manner because we knew that when defeated we become the next Nuke to go off.  ☢️

 

It's one thing to say that Players aren't doing a timed speed run and will tolerate some delays.  And quite another they will put up with endless stream of frustration that uncontrolled KB will produce.  The logic of social situations is very fuzzy and inexact.

 

You can go on thinking you can continue to frustrate and slow down the Team.  You will eventually become enlightened.