ppm Procs Per Minute (PPM) Information Guide

[Scarlet Shocker]

10 hours ago, macskull said:

 

Not quite - special IOs that act like set bonuses (they show up under your "set bonus" list in your character's info window) follow the -3 rule. Common examples of this are the knockback protection IOs and the Steadfast Protection +3% defense IO. The exceptions to that are the special PvP IO pieces that give resistance (Shield Wall) and defense (Gladiator's Armor) since PvP IO set bonuses exemplar just like purple set bonuses.

 

Procs that don't act like set bonuses (damage procs, "chance for" procs, "always-on" procs) will work no matter what level you're exemplared to as long as the power they're slotted in is available for use. If I slot a level 40 Miracle +recovery into Health it'll be available at any level because Health is unlocked at level 2 (and even if I exemplar down to level 1 I'd still have any power I picked up to level 6). For procs that fit this description, the level range of the IO set is irrelevant.

Thanks!

 

So is there any indication of which is which in its description, or do we simply need to know?

[Redlynne]

5 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

or do we simply need to know?

You simply learn to know.

[Scarlet Shocker]

3 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

You simply learn to know.

figures, thanks

 

[Pzn]

Why is the chance to proc so low in rain of arrows?  I would have expected a decent proc chance with a base recharge of 60 seconds.  Is it punished too heavily by the AoE radius or is there something weird going on with the proc chance?

 

[Bopper]

6 minutes ago, josh1622 said:

Why is the chance to proc so low in rain of arrows?  I would have expected a decent proc chance with a base recharge of 60 seconds.  Is it punished too heavily by the AoE radius or is there something weird going on with the proc chance?

 

It's because Rain of Arrows is a location AoE that you drop a pseudopet to (also referred to as a patch). So it does not use the click formula (where recharge matters), it uses the Toggle formula (where it's PPM*10/60/AreaMod). So there is some good and bad to this, the good is you can enhanced the recharge as much as you want and it won't affect the performance. But the bad is the fact it uses only a 10 second activation period (much less than your base recharge). Now, I forget how long Rain of Arrows lasts for, but you will get a proc opportunity when you cast it, then again every 10 seconds until the pseudopet/patch goes away.

[Pzn]

1 minute ago, Bopper said:

It's because Rain of Arrows is a location AoE that you drop a pseudopet to (also referred to as a patch). So it does not use the click formula (where recharge matters), it uses the Toggle formula (where it's PPM*10/60/AreaMod). So there is some good and bad to this, the good is you can enhanced the recharge as much as you want and it won't affect the performance. But the bad is the fact it uses only a 10 second activation period (much less than your base recharge). Now, I forget how long Rain of Arrows lasts for, but you will get a proc opportunity when you cast it, then again every 10 seconds until the pseudopet/patch goes away.

If it's being treated like other rain powers with a long duration then that sucks.  Rain of arrows only lasts for a few seconds so there's only 1 chance for a proc check.  Looks like procs are nearly worthless in it.

[Bopper]

1 hour ago, josh1622 said:

If it's being treated like other rain powers with a long duration then that sucks.  Rain of arrows only lasts for a few seconds so there's only 1 chance for a proc check.  Looks like procs are nearly worthless in it.

Looking at City of Data, it looks like Rain of Arrows summons 2 pseudopets, so that should give you 2 proc opportunities, but it's still with the pseudopet formula. The only good side I see with RoAs, it has a 60 second recharge, so with enough recharge you could fire it every 15 seconds, and hopefully 2 proc attempts per 15 seconds will help. I personally havent tested it though, so take it with a grain of salt...it could still be just 1 proc opportunity for all I know.

[Brutal Justice]

I was curious if anybody has used procs in the blaster version of glue arrow.  It appears the damage portion of the glue creates a patch on the ground like caltrops and they are able to move out of the damage.  How often would the damage portion trigger a proc?  Would it behave just like caltrops? With the new proc mechanic is it worth procs?

[Bopper]

32 minutes ago, Mr.Sinister said:

I was curious if anybody has used procs in the blaster version of glue arrow.  It appears the damage portion of the glue creates a patch on the ground like caltrops and they are able to move out of the damage.  How often would the damage portion trigger a proc?  Would it behave just like caltrops? With the new proc mechanic is it worth procs?

On page 6 of the comments, I did an extensive look at glue arrow. Target AoE patches are unique as the initial cast is a single target click attack which has a higher chance to proc on the target, then the patch itself uses the patch formulas.

Edit: I dont remember which version of Glue Arrow I used, but I think it was Defender. Things should be the same for the Blaster version, but you would get more proc options since it does damage.

 

Edit #2: I should still answer your questions.

The patch will have a chance to proc when summoned (right after casting it), then again every 10 seconds until the patch dies. For glue arrow, I think it's a 30s duration. I dont remember if it procs at 0s, 10s, 20s and 30s, or if it only procs at 0s, 10s, and 20s.

The patch should work just like caltrops as far as procs are concerned. It will use a 10s activate period, and whatever radius the patch is will feed into the proc formula.

I would say it is worth using procs in, but that is always a build specific question,as proc damage is less impactful to blasters as their base damage is already so superior.

Edited February 16, 2020 by Bopper

[Underfyre]

So I searched this thread for Decimation proc mentions to see if the internal cooldown is 10 sec or just the flat PPM chance. I saw one that showed you got basically back to back Decimation procs. Is it safe to say that the average for Decimation is:

80% * 5.25 / Ability_Cooldown * Ability_PPM%?

 

edit: this is vs: 80% * 5.25 / IO_Cooldown(10) * Ability_PPM%

Edited February 17, 2020 by underfyre

[Bopper]

18 minutes ago, underfyre said:

So I searched this thread for Decimation proc mentions to see if the internal cooldown is 10 sec or just the flat PPM chance. I saw one that showed you got basically back to back Decimation procs. Is it safe to say that the average for Decimation is:

80% * 5.25 / Ability_Cooldown * Ability_PPM%?

 

edit: this is vs: 80% * 5.25 / IO_Cooldown(10) * Ability_PPM%

Are you trying to calculate what the overall average impact of what the decimation build up proc will provide you? If so, it would depend on how often you fire the power, which would be the first formula you show. However, youd have to factor in accuracy, as it's not guaranteed you would hit every time the power is off cooldown (at best it would be 95% of the time).

 

Also, the buildup proc is not guaranteed 80% damage boost. The amount is determined by AT. If you use the link that shows Macskull's list of procs, it should also show what Buildup % it is for each AT.

[Underfyre]

Yeah, I'm working on a Sentinel sheet, so I'm working off of 80%.

 

Sot it'd be more of a 80% * 5.25 / Ability_Cooldown * Ability_Hit% * Ability_PPM%?

[Bopper]

5 minutes ago, underfyre said:

Yeah, I'm working on a Sentinel sheet, so I'm working off of 80%.

 

Sot it'd be more of a 80% * 5.25 / Ability_Cooldown * Ability_Hit% * Ability_PPM%?

Assuming the Ability Cooldown is greater than 5.25s, then yes. If you're firing the power faster than that, then we would need to tweak the formula for dealing with probability of overlap

[Underfyre]

Good point.

 

I'm not sure if it's 100% necessary, 80% * 5.25 / if (Ability_Cooldown < 5.25 , 5.25 , Ability_Cooldown) * Ability_Hit% * Ability_PPM% is what I'll go with.

[Bopper]

Just now, underfyre said:

Good point.

 

I'm not sure if it's 100% necessary, 80% * 5.25 / if (Ability_Cooldown < 5.25 , 5.25 , Ability_Cooldown) * Ability_Hit% * Ability_PPM% is what I'll go with.

That won't be how we would tweak the formula, as I believe a 2nd Buildup would result in replacing the original Buildup (thus cutting off whatever buildup time you had remaining).

 

Also, I am not sure how you're defining Ability Cooldown, but it should be the MRT + ArcanaCastTime. If you want an exact formula, give me some time to think about it and I can maybe get you something.

[Underfyre]

I have two different cooldowns in the sheet, 1 for PPM calcs: Ability_Base_Recharge / (1 + Enhancements) 

 

Then for this calc It'd be the full cooldown that includes global recharge.

 

In this case since it's a spreadsheet and not a sim I think that just going with 5.25 should be sufficient. But are you saying that the recharge of an ability doesn't start until it's arcanatime cast has completed? Because that'll play hell with a few calcs I'm sure.

Edited February 17, 2020 by underfyre

[Bopper]

22 minutes ago, underfyre said:

I have two different cooldowns in the sheet, 1 for PPM calcs: Ability_Base_Recharge / (1 + Enhancements) 

 

Then for this calc It'd be the full cooldown that includes global recharge.

 

In this case since it's a spreadsheet and not a sim I think that just going with 5.25 should be sufficient. But are you saying that the recharge of an ability doesn't start until it's arcanatime cast has completed? Because that'll play hell with a few calcs I'm sure.

It should be sufficient, and thank you for correcting me. I should not have said MRT (which is the formula you posted on this first line), but rather I should have said the actual recharge (or cooldown) of the power. As for the arcanatime, yes, a power does not start to recharge until its cast time (arcanatime, to be exact) is completed. As for the Build Up proc, that should start its 5.25s counter once the arcanatime is complete.

[macskull]

On 2/16/2020 at 7:39 PM, Bopper said:

That won't be how we would tweak the formula, as I believe a 2nd Buildup would result in replacing the original Buildup (thus cutting off whatever buildup time you had remaining).

The BU proc stacks with itself (even from the same source) but with factoring activation and recharge times in it's unlikely you'd be able to get the benefit on more than one attack.

[Bopper]

9 minutes ago, macskull said:

The BU proc stacks with itself (even from the same source) but with factoring activation and recharge times in it's unlikely you'd be able to get the benefit on more than one attack.

Thanks for the clarification. I should have known that. I recall someone reporting on testing the BU proc with mastermind pets amd occasionally getting multiple stacks. That should make the formula easier for @underfyre.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Bopper

[macskull]

With Electrical Affinity on the test server and actual chain powers getting implemented, I went ahead and updated my PPM list (also linked in the OP) to include a PPM calculator in a new tab. The updated spreadsheet includes calculations for single-target, PBAoE, TAoE, cone, chain, and auto/toggle/pseudopet powers. Of note: just like @Bopper said in the OP, the current area modifier for chain powers pretty heavily penalizes procs as max targets goes up, but it looks like the biggest single drop in proc effectiveness (at least for the Electrical Affinity powers) is after the first stack of static where max targets goes from 4 to 7.

 

EDIT: Removed the "make a copy" portion of the link so you can view the calculator without logging in, but you'll need to make a copy to make any changes to it.

Edited March 16, 2020 by macskull

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, macskull said:

I went ahead and updated my PPM list (also linked in the OP) to include a PPM calculator

Which is great ... except that you can't use the calculator while in View Only mode.

 

If only we had a web based build planner that could do the calculations for us ... (I know, I know, project is in the works)

[Bopper]

26 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

Which is great ... except that you can't use the calculator while in View Only mode.

 

If only we had a web based build planner that could do the calculations for us ... (I know, I know, project is in the works)

He can fix that. Just needs to make the link such that it downloads a local copy for you to edit on your device. I had to do the same thing with my Survivability Tool, as I want others to edit their version without changing the master copy.

[macskull]

1 hour ago, Redlynne said:

Which is great ... except that you can't use the calculator while in View Only mode.

 

If only we had a web based build planner that could do the calculations for us ... (I know, I know, project is in the works)

 

42 minutes ago, Bopper said:

He can fix that. Just needs to make the link such that it downloads a local copy for you to edit on your device. I had to do the same thing with my Survivability Tool, as I want others to edit their version without changing the master copy.

Updated the link to do just that but you now (obviously) need to be logged in to a Google account to view your local copy.

[Caulderone]

1 hour ago, macskull said:

 

Updated the link to do just that but you now (obviously) need to be logged in to a Google account to view your local copy.

Actually, if I remove the /copy from the end of the link, I can load the page and then do File->Download without having to log in.

[macskull]

1 hour ago, Caulderone said:

Actually, if I remove the /copy from the end of the link, I can load the page and then do File->Download without having to log in.

That was how I had it set up originally and will probably go back to tomorrow. I’ll add that info to the spreadsheet. Just wish it were possible to allow anyone to edit only a few cells while leaving the rest of the sheet protected.