HC needs to develop a policy on memorials.

[Ghost]

I love the idea of a memorial, and absolutely hate the idea of adding names.

 

A memorial is not supposed to be a popularity contest, which is absolutely what it would have to be in order to decide the names associated.

 

 

[Snarky]

9 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

Monument to the Fallen

 

"An obelisk was recently erected in Kallisti Wharf and dedicated to all those past and present who may no longer with us in life, but will forever live on in other worlds."

Could there be a memorial garden ir walk or something near the Obelisk where names could be inscribed?  And yes i know it is a delicate act.  You can end up with names like Buck NasT.  Next to people we all knew and admired.  

[Luminara]

Set up a system to automatically access the accounts of players who haven't logged in within a pre-determined period of time, sort by most played, use their favorite characters' names and costumes during zombie apocalypses.  If they log in again (i.e. still alive), automatically remove their character from the apocalypse.

 

No, I'm not a sociopath, and no, I'm not trying to be amusing.  This is impartial, it's practical and it's interactive.  Anything else will inevitably lead to bitching because this memorial NPC isn't in <location>, or that memorial NPC isn't at the front of the crowd, or that other player didn't receive a memorial NPC at all.  So make everyone zombies.  That would be thematic and engaging, and give equal representation to everyone, regardless of notoriety or popularity.

[Kistulot]

I don't feel like I can respond to the further discourse here. A lot of it feels like it's gotten... A bit... I don't have a word, but the opposite of what I've been trying to do in the wake of my friend's death.

 

Maybe it's selfish to make this post, but this effort has been explicitly an attempt to immortalize someone who i was told all day while holding a 16 hour+ impromptu vigil that their lives had been impacted and they wanted a reminder to exist in the game.

 

No one wants a contest to prove anyone's worthiness for this.

 

I stated I didn't really feel like one for me would be appropriate because when I think of Ascendant, and Ursula, I think of, and many others did, a very similar person. I don't think Ascendant left Virtue, but their memory is now on every shard.

 

I would, sincerely, like to see something in game honoring all of our fallen. I think getting upset that some of the prominent members, or those who touched someone working on Homecoming or the secret servers beforehand is missing the point as is the suggestion for SG bases to be used in lieu of.

 

By putting a character, a representation of the person who is gone, a character they played, a way they touched people, in a way that is there for everyone to see is trying to make sure that their memory lasts. It's trying to make it so... I never met any of the NPCs we have now besides Ascendant, but I feel the love and the loss of those people being gone. I feel good that I can hold that memory, and I feel like not enjoying that being in the game can be handled the same as not liking may other NPC: don't interact with them or only as much as possible for the reward npc in oro/echo.

 

We're a community, and as things go, it's no secret CoH has a largely older player base these days. I don't need to spell out what this means.

 

I would like to make a call for empathy, and togetherness about our shared losses, and about the ones that may solely be personal to us. It's the holiday season. Someone has passed. Those both feel like good reasons to try to have a positive outlook towards each other and try to hold hands on this, and in general.

 

Maybe I'm reacting a bit dramatically, but I dunno. It hurts a little to see this thread go the way it has following the initial post.

 

Okay, not a little. A lot.

 

Please, in this time of loss, don't make it so losing a person in the community who avoided conflict and brought fun and joy is leading to strife and unpleasantness.

[Bionic_Flea]

I agree with both of Greycat's suggestions.  We should have a "Tomb of the Unknown Soldier" type of memorial that can serve as a tribute to all players who have passed away and we should also have some sort of criteria for who gets put into the game as a character.  We already have several (https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Category:Memorial_NPCs) 

 

I have an additional suggestion:  I would like to have a new base item called a "holo emitter" or something similar that could display a designated character's image, like the one we see at the end of Number Six's arc.  Not sure how hard it would be to do that, but I assume it's possible because of that mission and how we can copy character costumes in the AE.

 

That way, players can create tributes to any and all of their friends, and I assume someone would eventually take it upon themselves to create a Hall of Heroes remembering everyone in the Fallen but not Forgotten thread.

 

PS - Here's the Holo-Statue of Bionic Flea from that mission:

Edited Sunday at 03:37 PM by Bionic_Flea

[tidge]

In-game memorials are a wonderful gesture; I agree that requests for physical game assets is an incredibly slippery slope. IMO the best way to honor a lost friend is to keep alive and showcase the attitude that the lost friend had. That is: pick up the slack for them, preserve the good feels through actions, and don't ask for a memorial that over time no one will know why such a specific memorial exists.

 

On the negative side, I recently got a "Don't you know who *I* am?" public comment(*1) from a player that is actually relatively new to the shard, and (my words) spams LFG for a relatively narrow amount of content that isn't exactly gated (by level or skill)... and multiboxes... and while they get joiners, it isn't as if the direct impact by that player (at least publicly) is particularly big. They aren't otherwise a jerk, so yeah it would be sad if they passed on... but I can easily imagine one of the regular joiners asking for a memorial for that guy. I wouldn't want to see this become a popularity contest.

 

(*1) The comment came as a result of suggesting an alternate, time-proven, strategic approach to common content. It didn't even rise to the "my way or the highway" reaction I can expect from a team lead.

[Jacktar]

Not to keen on a “Tomb of the ……?” type memorial but would much prefer an “Eternal Flame” animated rememberance style.

And perhaps it could be settled on one of the floating islands in Oro. Not on the main platform but on one of the other quiet peaceful ones maybe near a waterfall where one could sit and remember.

I also think that being Oro it ties nicely into the past and the future ingame and is also accessable by all Blue Red and Gold characters with least side swapping hassles.

So no names, just one memorial to remember all!

Cheers

[ShardWarrior]

I made a similar request a couple of years ago to immortalize @Heracleain Cimerora.  I can empathize with you and I am saddened to hear of your loss.  My sympathies to you and to the family of the people involved.

 

Having made a similar request and having had time over the years to think about it, I agree with those who have said HC spending time building some kind of memorial and developing a written policy for who gets included is not a good idea.  All this will do is lead to arguments, hurt feelings and disenchantment.  There will be endless debates over who is or is not worthy of inclusion and why or why not, what said memorial should be or look like, where it should be located and so on.  You can already see from the suggestions being made here that people are going to have vastly different ideas of where and how to remember their friend or loved one(s).  We should also consider that some people may not have wanted their character immortalized in game. 

 

No matter how simple or easy it may seem, adding a memorial with names is work from a volunteer staff.  As an example, Cryptic added a memorial in STO for actors, producers, writers and others involved with Star Trek over the years who have passed away.  There are memorial plaques in each of the major social hubs players can click on to read the names of those who have passed on.  It is very nice, but it also requires work and maintenance, and unfortunately, there have been some rather heated debates over who should or should not be included and in what order.  As far as the existing NPCs, I agree with those who have said it should be left entirely to the discretion of the HC staff who they want to add to the game and where.  As has already been said, it is their server, not ours.

 

2 hours ago, Kistulot said:

No one wants a contest to prove anyone's worthiness for this.

 

Unfortunately, this is what it is and this will happen if such a memorial and official policy are put in place.  I think if you were to look at the suggestion objectively, you would understand this is what inevitably will happen.  I do not believe it is being disrespectful or insincere to point that out.  As others have already pointed out, there is a forum specific for remembering those who have passed on.  In addition to that, players can choose an appropriate location and date/time to gather in game and hold a vigil for their fallen friends or loved ones. 

 

48 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I have an additional suggestion:  I would like to have a new base item called a "holo emitter" or something similar that could display a designated character's image, like the one we see at the end of Number Six's arc.  Not sure how hard it would be to do that, but I assume it's possible because of that mission and how we can copy character costumes in the AE.

 

If there were to be any development time spent on this, I like this idea best as I agree that bases are a much better option for this kind of thing.  Players can design whatever kind of monument or memorial they would like and it does not require any HC development effort.  These bases can be made public or kept private depending on player wishes.

 

Ultimately, I believe everyone is worth remembering.  We have all had an impact on others in our own way, and we are all worthy.

Edited Sunday at 04:02 PM by ShardWarrior
Forgot to add link

[Greycat]

Post-12 hour shift plus some, not really sleeping yet (I really should,) and one other item came to mind about memorial NPCs. Aside from popularity, or feeling left out, or any of that...

 

One of the NPC-memorialized players turned out, post mortem, to have an... issue. I'm not going into who or what, it's nothing *illegal,* but it is something that had... let's say negative emotional impact to their significant other when they found out about it (in the process of going to that player's memorial service.)

 

I shouldn't have to say this, but to be clear, I do not want to imply, nor do I believe, this would be an issue with the person having a memorial requested of them in the other thread. Again... I'm on Everlasting as well. RP regularly. I have no clue who they are or what they were like.

 

But I've met, and been within a degree or two of relationship of, people who seemed just fine, fun, enjoyable to be around, creative, etc... who turned out to actually be horrible people, lying, manipulative, some seeming to get some pleasure out of causing mental anguish to their chosen victim(s.) Hypothetically, say someone like *that* passes and gets petitioned for (and approved, somehow) said memorial. Their "main" or whichever character is now in some location. Imagine the impact of that on the person(s) they victimized.

 

(And then comes the conversation of "How to remove them" and "If they should be removed" and "The dead can't really speak in their own defense, is this just hearsay or a grudge?")

 

As I said. Torn on the subject.

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

Can we please discuss this sensitive topic with respect and without attacking each other?

Edited Sunday at 04:24 PM by GM_GooglyMoogly

[Indystruck]

i understand where people are coming from but it's still rough to essentially see a topic like "we draw the line at your friend specifically"

[ScarySai]

This doesn't happen often enough to warrant this discussion, frankly.

 

People are asking with no expectation of it being added. I take issue with posting this so soon as a clearly annoyed response to a pretty harmless ask to honor a dead person, but whatever.

 

I don't think a generic grave is the right way to go about it either, nor do I neccesarilly disagree with the idea that we can't memorialize everyone who dies, but the timing of this thread is a bad look.

[Glacier Peak]

11 hours ago, Rudra said:

@Glacier Peak mentioned a generic memorial already erected in Kallisti Wharf, and if it is there [...].

Apologies, I was offering an idea - it's not in game (to my knowledge). 

[Bionic_Flea]

8 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

People are asking with no expectation of it being added. I take issue with posting this so soon as a clearly annoyed response to a pretty harmless ask to honor a dead person, but whatever.

 

I can't speak to anyone's intentions but my own, but I have nothing against any particular player being included as a tribute, but I also realize that we can't (and probably shouldn't) memorialize every player.  So if we do it for some and not others, there should be some way of deciding that.

[Indystruck]

none of my friends group will feel slighted if the character/player does not get a memorial, they wouldn't have wanted us to feel badly about it. and they were modest enough that they probably didn't think they warranted one

 

but all the stories and reaching out we got back from people playing the game day to day made us just huddle up and be like "well... should we ask?"

 

and we all felt there wasn't any harm in asking. if it happened it happened, if it didn't it didn't. we just wanted some way to share them back to the community

 

i knew a good number of the memorial NPCs, i was most familiar with a couple virtue reps, and i found out they passed via the NPCs. it felt like a punch to the gut but i was glad to have the closure and knowledge. i think i might've actually helped with the Ascendant one? I remember vaguely that the Titans forums were like "does anyone have Ascendant's costume file" and I went and found it on virtueverse, repaired the costume file, and uploaded it.

 

anyway, just. i get it but this all still feels real raw to me so i don't have a good alternative suggestion. the generic tombstone monument kinda sucks. this is a game of creativity and passion behind each character we use as our mainstay for some, and every character we make for others. i'd much rather have custom NPC support to set up our own little memorials in sg bases.

[ScarySai]

14 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

So if we do it for some and not others, there should be some way of deciding that.

 

I don't disagree, with that sentiment, but I think Greycat and some others in this thread, let's just say, aren't operating on good faith.

 

Also, like, you dont make a post like this as people are still mourning the person, like what the hell? Based off of history, this really reads to me like the guy is mad that there's request posts.

 

It's been a little over a week, maybe show a bit more tact and read the room, rather than making a thread like this in direct response to an ongoing memorial request.

Edited Sunday at 04:57 PM by ScarySai

[Rudra]

34 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

12 hours ago, Rudra said:

@Glacier Peak mentioned a generic memorial already erected in Kallisti Wharf, and if it is there [...].

Apologies, I was offering an idea - it's not in game (to my knowledge). 

Oh, well that sucks. A generic memorial would have been great. Between it and the "Fallen but not Forgotten", anyone that wants to memorialize someone would be well covered.

[Excraft]

29 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

I don't disagree, with that sentiment, but I think Greycat and some others in this thread, let's just say, aren't operating on good faith.

 

How so?  I think you're ascribing negativity where there isn't any.

 

I'm also in the camp for using bases for creating player memorials.  They can be customized however people see fit and can be shared with everyone.  HC coming up with a policy to determine who is or isn't "worthy" enough isn't going to lead to anything good. 

[ScarySai]

56 minutes ago, Excraft said:

How so?  I think you're ascribing negativity where there isn't any.

 

I'm not going to assume good faith from someone who has to make every suggestion thread about them.

 

56 minutes ago, Excraft said:

HC coming up with a policy to determine who is or isn't "worthy" enough isn't going to lead to anything good. 

 

Yeah, no, that's pretty much the worst thing they could possibly do.

 

Edited Sunday at 06:15 PM by ScarySai

[Kistulot]

1 hour ago, Indystruck said:

i understand where people are coming from but it's still rough to essentially see a topic like "we draw the line at your friend specifically"

This has been immensely painful.

 

I kinda didn't want to say it about the first post, but uh... the emphasis on not even knowing they existed feels... so... it hurts. I dont hold it against anyone, but it hurts.

 

I admit, I'll be sad if it doesn't happen. They wouldn't care, but well... they were important. The Stormcage was an important place for a lot of people, and they were responsible in part for the pillow fort. They manned a spot at the bar that felt like it belonged to them. That place ended up on Massively, getting word of how cool you can make bases out to the wider world. They were a friend. They made life better for a lot of people...

 

Even if you didnt know someone? Someone you knew interacted with them once, or someone you knew interacted with someone who logged on that day and stayed logged on because of them once, or so on.

 

If someone told me that they wanted a memorial for a character of a fallen player and I didn't know them, the worst thing I would say is "I'm sorry I never had a chance to know them. Let's do this."

 

I would... definitely encourage some empathy.

 

Please.

[JasperStone]

Well ... here we are. 

 

@Glacier Peak As our Indom rep 🙂 , is the Indo Hub still given out to players on Indom? I still have access via passcode, and it is spectacular.

 

We could have those interested build a memorial base. Keep it simple. Either one for each shard or keep on a chosen central shard. Share it via passcode in the same fashion.

 

As for the criteria.... they were part of our community. That is all.

I was in a running group a few years ago where we got a new member on a Tuesday who a drunk driver struck on Thursday and killed.

We held a Memorial that Saturday.

 

I did not know the honored people in-game, and I am proud that we chose to honor them.

 

If we create a list of criteria required to be memorialized.

I am okay with not being remembered.

 

 

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, JasperStone said:

Well ... here we are. 

 

@Glacier Peak As our Indom rep 🙂 , is the Indo Hub still given out to players on Indom? I still have access via passcode, and it is spectacular.

 

We could have those interested build a memorial base. Keep it simple. Either one for each shard or keep on a chosen central shard. Share it via passcode in the same fashion.

 

As for the criteria.... they were part of our community. That is all.

I was in a running group a few years ago where we got a new member on a Tuesday who a drunk driver struck on Thursday and killed.

We held a Memorial that Saturday.

 

I did not know the honored people in-game, and I am proud that we chose to honor them.

 

If we create a list of criteria required to be memorialized.

I am okay with not being remembered.

 

 

Players making memorial bases is fine. Pretty sure no one is going to oppose that. The concern comes up in a more game established memorial. People are going to be left out. That is inevitable. Just like I'm sure, but have no proof, that there are players that passed that didn't make it to the "Fallen but not Forgotten" forum. Then there is the consideration that people are going to want their memorials for others to be in specific locations and done specific ways. There is going to be a push for more well known players to be more prominently featured. And all those come together in a massive problem. The memorial request thread that prompted this thread involves a player on a server I play on pretty exclusively, and I still have no clue who that person was. (To @Kistulot, that isn't something that should hurt. I'm sorry for your loss, but no one can be known by everyone. It isn't a comment against the person that passed, it's simply a statement of how big the community itself is.) Adding a memorial NPC or plaque to the game will show up on all the servers, and what are the players on those other servers going to think? Unless those players are privy to what is going, they won't have a clue who this new NPC is, but they will be wondering why this new NPC isn't doing anything for them in the game. And in the very slim chance that they also have someone they lost in the game on their server that they wanted immortalized in the same place, what should they get told? Adding a plaque is less confusing, but is more work and still leaves the question on those other servers of "who are they talking about, is there some game lore I missed or will be released soon?".

 

There is a reason why real life memorials tend to be family and friends only, not open invitation to the city. And as our aging player base progresses, there are going to be more and more such memorial NPC/plaque requests. How do we deal with all those too? Say players get plaques instead of NPCs. Will those plaques be consolidated in a mausoleum? How would those plaques be arranged? What about less known players getting memorial plaques first due to unfortunate events and now better known players are hidden away further back in the mausoleum? How big would this mausoleum need to be to house all the players that will find themselves being requested to be memorialized within over time and what happens when you reach or near capacity? How would those plaques even be arranged within the mausoleum and how much information will they have? How will that information be accessed? Popups take up less space because you can just use a generic plaque with maybe the player's name as the interface to open the popup, but fitting more information on the plaque will become progressively more cumbersome. What information would even be included as part of the memorial plaque? How would that information be presented so that it means something to the reader? Would each server have its own wing in the mausoleum since every server will have the exact same mausoleum, or will the mausoleum simply mix all the names regardless of server played on? And all this is just with something as simple and space-saving as plaques. Using NPCs is so much more complicated and takes up so much more space in the game. And on top of that, who would be responsible for keeping the memorials up to date for those that have fallen?

[ScarySai]

33 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Adding a memorial NPC or plaque to the game will show up on all the servers, and what are the players on those other servers going to think?

 

Who cares? This is such a non-issue.

Edited Sunday at 06:57 PM by ScarySai

[Indystruck]

if i see a name i don't recognize on a plaque i will think "wow. this person was loved."

[arcane]

Like the idea of a generic memorial

 

Don’t like the idea of select individuals being memorialized by popularity contest or any other exclusive criteria

 

My 2 inf