Letting go of Def and giving in to the concept

[hoodedKitsune]

I find myself lately in this runt where every time I start a new character with the ideas of all the power I wanna try and take, about into my 30s I find myself working on soft capping Def and end up no where near what I started off wanting to do.  Don't get me wrong, the characters a strong and can stand the test of time but not what I started off wanting to do and then I end up getting bored with said character.  I didn't used to always been like this, but at some point and time I find myself always trying to soft cap Def, and not just Def! If I am playing a Dom I am almost always pulled to making it a Perma Dom and whatever idea I started out with is long lost.

 

Those of you who can resit making every character Soft cap on Def, not max Recharge, etc.  How is it? Is it still fun, can you still rock with a team ready to do "hard" content and still walk out the other side giving a thumbs up? Heck it doesn't even have to be hard content to be honest, just in general, how is it? Heck I find myself where I can't even remember the last time I made a character that DIDN'T have me running to the test sever just to see how it plays out instead of jumping on live and simply going, "lets see what we come up with in the end".  I can't be 100% mad at it because the amount of ideas I had for a character, played it on test and simply went "omg....I am so glad I did NOT try that in live" is crazy.  

 

I guess what I am trying to say without all the rambling is that it feels like lately I am restricting my own fun, but I am STILL having fun...just...I don't know 😫 feels like it's becoming harder and hard to come up with a new character and stick with it and not fall into the trap of a character that can stand toe to toe, but not what I originally wanted.  That said I don't wanna lean too far into the original idea and spend 95% of my time on the floor. Does anyone else run into this kind of stuff or do I just need to take a small break and come back???

[Snarky]

47 minutes ago, hoodedKitsune said:

I find myself lately in this runt where every time I start a new character with the ideas of all the power I wanna try and take, about into my 30s I find myself working on soft capping Def and end up no where near what I started off wanting to do.  Don't get me wrong, the characters a strong and can stand the test of time but not what I started off wanting to do and then I end up getting bored with said character.  I didn't used to always been like this, but at some point and time I find myself always trying to soft cap Def, and not just Def! If I am playing a Dom I am almost always pulled to making it a Perma Dom and whatever idea I started out with is long lost.

 

Those of you who can resit making every character Soft cap on Def, not max Recharge, etc.  How is it? Is it still fun, can you still rock with a team ready to do "hard" content and still walk out the other side giving a thumbs up? Heck it doesn't even have to be hard content to be honest, just in general, how is it? Heck I find myself where I can't even remember the last time I made a character that DIDN'T have me running to the test sever just to see how it plays out instead of jumping on live and simply going, "lets see what we come up with in the end".  I can't be 100% mad at it because the amount of ideas I had for a character, played it on test and simply went "omg....I am so glad I did NOT try that in live" is crazy.  

 

I guess what I am trying to say without all the rambling is that it feels like lately I am restricting my own fun, but I am STILL having fun...just...I don't know 😫 feels like it's becoming harder and hard to come up with a new character and stick with it and not fall into the trap of a character that can stand toe to toe, but not what I originally wanted.  That said I don't wanna lean too far into the original idea and spend 95% of my time on the floor. Does anyone else run into this kind of stuff or do I just need to take a small break and come back???

I went through this phase.   And have gladly left it behind. Now i lean into building how to make my powers more effective.
 

 Solo, and at lower levels, leaning into the synergy of the powersets are more efficient.  In my opinion.  And carry a few purple candies.  

 

At higher levels, especially on teams, your defense is capped by team/league buffs almost always. So enhancing your powers cleverly is the ONLY way to be more effective…

[Octogoat]

These days I focus on res, and -tohit since they can keep me moving offensively and are easier to trick out. Third is damage.

[MoonSheep]

i play squishies and i don’t build any alt for defense or resistance

 

the penalty for dying is minimal and a momentary inconvenience, just carry a wakie insp

[arcane]

If you can do the following:

 

(1) Use inspirations.

(2) Not take yourself so seriously that you think dying has any impact in this game. Put together a wakie/BF/blue, pop em, zip away, and try again.

 

Then you can have fun with approximately 5% defense (Combat Jumping + Stealth or Maneuvers) and 0% resistance. 
 

I have 68 active characters in my spreadsheet. None of them have the fighting pool, none of them have ever intentionally pursued a defense set bonus, and only the taunters even bother with glad armor/steadfast/shield wall/reactive procs any more.

Edited June 29 by arcane

[hoodedKitsune]

51 minutes ago, arcane said:

If you can do the following:

 

(1) Use inspirations.

(2) Not take yourself so seriously that you think dying has any impact in this game. Put together a wakie/BF/blue, pop em, zip away, and try again.

 

Then you can have fun with approximately 5% defense (Combat Jumping + Stealth or Maneuvers) and 0% resistance. 
 

I have 68 active characters in my spreadsheet. None of them have the fighting pool, none of them have ever intentionally pursued a defense set bonus, and only the taunters even bother with glad armor/steadfast/shield wall/reactive procs any more.

 

That last part right there is what made me realize "What am I doing?" 

I was working on a character last week and the funny part was I didn't need the Fighting Pool, I KNOW I didn't need it and yet 10mins later I am picking up going, "Well ya know I do need to throw a  Luck of, maybe add one more slot to Tough for a mule...", worse part when it was all said and done? IT didn't even add anywhere near close to soft capping Def or Res, just felt like after all these years I HAD to do it.  😫

[Forager]

Yes, OP... I've done this too. I recently butchered my favorite character trying to "optimize" the build... and haven't played him since.

 

I gave up decent defense and resist to everything in exchange for soft-capped ranged defense because that works well for me on another character...

 

Thanks for this thread... I'm gonna go change him back and maybe even slot for knockback.

 

 

[Troo]

3 hours ago, hoodedKitsune said:

"What am I doing?"

 

Trying a new archetype can highlight different tactics.

Play a /Dark Miasma Corruptor taught me about Darkest Night which is a little different playstyle leveraging -Dam and -ToHit.

(-30 Dam is like 30 Res across the board, -20 ToHit is similar to 20 Def)

Darkest Night can also be found Soul Mastery Patron Power Pool which means all these ATs have access: Brute / Tanker / Sentinel / Defenders / Corruptors / Arachnos Soldier / Arachnos Widow / Masterminds

 

In a funk, try a new AT. Widows are really fun and effective if you haven't tried them.

 

 

4 hours ago, arcane said:

I have 68 active characters in my spreadsheet. None of them have the fighting pool, none of them have ever intentionally pursued a defense set bonus, and only the taunters even bother with glad armor/steadfast/shield wall/reactive procs any more.

 

sure sure but come on those are 68 really terrible characters

[Greycat]

*shrug* Best way I can say it is that "I make characters, not spreadsheets." Most of my (few) characters with the Fighting pool take it because they want to throw a punch or kick things. Hasten tends to be a "I'm 45 and have nothing else I want to take" type of pick unless I'm playing Illusion. Nothing's built with an eye to being perma'd or capped, even if they end up that way. Powers - barring some early essentials like status protection for armor sets - tend toward being a part of the character's *story* versus their numbers, IE "What do I need with what I'm fighting right now?" versus "what can I fit set X and Y in to boost a stat."

 

Are they effective? Depends on your definition. I don't care how many sets you throw on them, an Earth/FF controller is not soloing a four star Aeon or whatever at anything *but* a glacial pace. I throw sets in that look interesting or even fit a theme (Feliney Assault is, yes, feline... so gets mako's bite sets and Leviathan mastery because cat + fish = funny.) Not having perma-whatever means yes, you pay attention to when you use it... and you don't need Domination up, for instance, against *every single group* you go against. The pick-when-to-use-it nature that returns to some powers adds an extra dimension to what is an admittedly simple game. And no, none of mine are "carried" by my teams - they're out throwing powers around, watching what's coming, harassing the enemy, ending up solo off on another branch of the caves mopping stuff up without realizing it, the works. 

 

There's no reason to worry about capping-this-perma-that. There's no death penalty (what, debt? Pfft.) You don't have your loot spill on the ground for you to lose if you don't get back in time (or your teammates run across your body,) you don't have to fight through the same mobs at a debuff to get to your body, you're not losing anything unless you put yourself under hardcore rules. 

 

Can I run hard content? With a team, sure. Anything can be done with a team of semi-awake teammates. Solo? Depends on the character - again, not running that earth/ff at high levels. Thing is, I don't find running +4x8blahblah *interesting.* The game doesn't *do* anything interesting at those levels. Add bosses? Yawn. More minions? While occasionally, sure, (and my warshades are happy with it,) it gets boring. It doesn't make the enemies smarter, it doesn't give them different ways to use abilities, it just throws more bodies at you you have to punch a few more times. And yet I'll run across people with "a build" calling out for help with Trapdoor or "I can't fight XYZ," and find they're just ... not fighting well or paying attention to what that enemy's actually *doing,* where I'll walk in with a not-build and clean them up, and then point out "ok, when they're doing THIS, they're about to do that, hit them to interrupt it" or "Stay at range" (or use a "useless" power like a sleep when they're "invulnerable" to everything else... and shut down their problematic powers.) 

 

Play the game, ignore the meta, make a character and tell their story. 

[Ukase]

I am in this stage myself, looking at trying powers I've never tried before - because to try them means sacrificing the same tools I've been using since retail. 

There may be 2 or 3 exceptions, but across my 200 or so characters, they all have 
Combat Jumping, Hasten, Super Speed, Boxing, Tough, Weave, Maneuvers, Assault and/or Tactics and Vengeance. 

After trying and liking Burst of Speed, I figured I would give Combat Teleport a try. And, since I'm sacrificing leadership to get it, I might as well get Fold Space too. Which I've used before, but frankly, that by itself is not worth the sacrifice to me. Now, obviously there are situations where it's useful - but it's useless to me, for the most part. Mainly because I'm solo 80-90% of the time. 

So, Instead of having capped s/l resist on my Fire/MC blaster, I'm deciding to just not sweat the numbers. It's very weird. And so far, I haven't been defeated. And I'm pushing the character a little, ran at level 20 at 0/3. Running at 30 +1/3, for now. Might up it if it's manageable.  Some mobs, it handles fine. Other mobs, it's pretty scary. 

I got involved in a patron finale earlier, and it didn't look good. Half the team was just jumping into a +2 AV Quatrexin like they expected him to be an LT. And I think some extra mobs got aggroed by something. Anyway, I did have some large lucks and large greens, and used all of them - but I didn't get defeated. And now I can take scorpion shield when the time comes. 

When teaming, it's hit or miss so far. A lot of corruptors do nothing but buff. Some defenders do nothing but attack. Some blasters do nothing but die. So far, I'm relying on just my positioning within the battles themselves to stay alive. And it's working, for now. I'm also wary, because there's are lot of doms and tanks out there - as referenced by someone else's post. Was on a Posi 1 and 2, that were super simple (yes, Snarky. Nobody died even once) But that may have been because we had 3 tanks, and 3 doms, and I think an MM and my blaster. Maybe it was just 2 doms and corr. Either way, I didn't need to use any inspirations at all. 

I'll know more when I'm in the labyrinth next week. 

[Biff Pow]

I find there's a balance where chasing a certain bonus too much can hurt your build in other ways, or just make it not as fun. I see a lot of builds that skip fun powers (like Boggle in Psi Melee) because they have to fit in so many pool powers. My Blasters generally end up around 30% defenses and that works great. If I tried to push it into the 40s I would have to give up offense or utility and end up worse off.

[MTeague]

Very doable to turn your back on softcapping defense. Most of the time, 30% defense or so is fine, and you pop a Luck inspiration if you need to kick it up a notch. Also, if you are teaming, a lot of teams will have an Empath or a Bubbler, or a Ice Corruptor, etc.  And certain if incarnates are in play, someone will pop a Barrier. 

[Mopery]

It helps to have a character which means something more to you than just being the highest DPS/most survivable build you could find on the Forums.

This is why I usually don't Power Level my characters in AE, I want to learn what works and what doesn't while playing it.

I want to know the value of those powers I might later skip, perhaps there is some hidden synergy I hadn't thought of, or find in the heat of battle.

I also want a character that looks good, and looks really good while using their powers, too. Having a good bio can make you "become" your character.

Even a little light roleplay can add a lot to your enjoyment, this community is pretty cool overall.

Edited Sunday at 10:29 PM by Mopery
Grammars

[Yomo Kimyata]

12 hours ago, hoodedKitsune said:

Does anyone else run into this kind of stuff or do I just need to take a small break and come back???

 

Both.

 

I played almost nothing but scrappers for a long time, and every one ended up more or less the same.  Like Ukase, every one had: Combat Jumping, Kick (so much better than Boxing!), Tough, Weave, Hasten.  Those were just the best powers I could put together for a +4/x8 solo build.  And they all did well, but some a little better than others.

[Psi-bolt]

Recently, I stopped using Mids, and just build the characters as I go.  I also really pay attention to how they are doing in the content that I play the most (TFs).  Outside of Tankers and Brutes who are soaking up damage, I've found that an excessive focus on min-maxing really makes a lot of characters less fun.  Even focusing on damage can make a character less fun than they could be.   It's a hard habit to break, but I think it's worth it because having dozens of soft-capped, max damage monsters is cool, but then you start to wonder why not just play one character; why keep building new characters if the concept always devolves into unkillable steamroller.

Edited Monday at 12:46 PM by Psi-bolt
clarity in last sentence

[Seed22]

Try minmaxing. 

 

Make proc bomb builds with 20ish def and watch your enjoyment skyrocket.

[Psyonico]

For me, there’s a certain “ease of use”. On my toons without mez protection, soft capped defense means I’m less likely to be held/stunned.

 

i always put together a build before I start running a character.  I’ve got a Fire/Dev blaster in the works that is mostly ignoring defense and instead building as much +damage as possible.

[JKCarrier]

I'm coming from the opposite side: I dunno how to "softcap" anything. But I should probably figure it out, because good lord, getting mezzed is super annoying...

[Major_Decoy]

8 hours ago, Troo said:

Play a /Dark Miasma Corruptor taught me about Darkest Night which is a little different playstyle leveraging -Dam and -ToHit.

(-30 Dam is like 30 Res across the board, -20 ToHit is similar to 20 Def)

 

But -30 dam and 90 resistance stack in a way that -20 tohit and 69 defense don't.

[WumpusRat]

Generally my characters are built with a concept in mind, and I set their slots and such up to reflect the concept. Though I will certainly try to make them as durable as I can within that concept.

 

While I do like getting reasonable amounts of defense and resists, I don't really try to 'softcap' unless the concept for the character is someone who is meant to stand there in melee and not go down. A few of my characters have hasten (my two dominators and several of my trollers, as well as one mastermind), but most skip it. I'll take a resist power from one of the epic/patron pools if I think it'll fit the character concept, but if not I'll figure out something else to take instead. 

 

Generally if I take hasten at all I'm going to try and push to make it perma, simply because if I AM taking it, it's to crank down the recharge on one or more powers in the primary or secondary that have enormous recharge times, and I want to get them down as low as possible. My ninja/empathy mastermind has perma-hasten, in an effort to bring the regen/recovery auras down to as close to perma as I could get them. One of my doms is an illusionist, so I wanted to get phantom army perma, and the trollers that have hasten are /nature and /marine, so I wanted their big buffs up as much as possible. 

 

But basically it's concept first, then mechanics. If it comes down to it, I will abandon mechanics for concept, but I will not abandon concept for mechanics.

Edited Monday at 03:20 AM by WumpusRat

[DrBasics]

I experience both sides of the coin. Sometimes I just say screw it and take weird power picks for the sake of "Rule of Cool" and just being fun. But there are times when it is extremely obvious that everyone on the team is doing that and the entire team is very unoptimized. Just an example, when it took 30+ minutes to run just Apex TF, then another 30+ minutes to run Tin Mage. It's nothing game breaking, but it is enough for me to get back into squeezing optimization and min/max a build like crazy, at least for a week or two.

[Troo]

2 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

But -30 dam and 90 resistance stack in a way that -20 tohit and 69 defense don't.

 

Troo.

I do like stacking it with 60-75 Resistance and/or 25-30 Defense. It can open up a lot of build options.

[Fireburn]

I used to pursue as max recharge as possible and at least one positional or typed defense capped. Wich in the case of most squishies, was s/l.

Then there was the change to enemy power tags, and such defense lost a lot of its usefulness. Then came the revamp to some high level enemy factions, and they gained annoying auto hit features that ignored all defenses. Or heavy debuffs that eat defense like a tasy ice cream in the middle of summer.

 

So i started worrying a lot less about slotting defense and now pick powers based on what i feel like doing at the moment. Most of the squishies end up with 20-30% defense mixed defenses, but that's largely due to slotting winter sets for slow resist, or thunderstrikes in ranged attacks and so on, and getting weave/maneuvers/cj for LoTG global recharges.

Are they still effective? Yes, they are. The difference isn't so big. They can die if i'm not careful, i have to play more aggressively, sometimes using strategies, but that's a good thing. They can still defeat x8 spawns when i'm solo, and when in teams? Nothing changed due to team buffs and the overwhelming power of a good party against ANY enemy faction.

Most important, are they still fun to play? Yes, and i'm still enjoying the ride.

 

The thing i cannot renounce is getting perma or quasi-perma levels of hasten. Not because of performance, but because i love when powers recharge in a flash and i always have them available when i want , even the longer recharge ones. I don't stop until mids shows hsten recharging in at least 130 seconds, possibly with force feedbacks slotted somewhere when the powers allow it

[Clave Dark 5]

Anyone can soft cap, just like anyone can hide behind ATOs, Incarnate powers, rows of Purples and Winter's sets, etc. And it's boring after awhile!  Do what you want, and maybe even go to extremes and try to create say a workable semi-petless MM or a Dom who's sole purpose is upping the damage percentages (I have, they were both fun).   I don't feel the need to measure my "Big Big Stick" against speed-runs or masters of or whatever else the "number go up" fans are into, and you don't have to either.

 

Remember this min/maxxing mindset rules the forums, but not so much in-game, and doesn't have to if you don't want it to.  Play what you want, how you want.  I generally have a build ready for my new toon, and just follow that without too much more tinkering (unless it's unplayable (when I might just drop it instead anyways).  I often start from other people's builds and then yank out parts I don't want such a Fighting, or to make room say for most of the Experimentation set because it seems to fit this toon or whatever. 

[Clave Dark 5]

9 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

every one had: Combat Jumping, Kick (so much better than Boxing!), Tough, Weave, Hasten

We don't like to say CoH encourages cookie-cutter builds much, but... yeah.