Pylon Damage Thread

[Tsuko]

3 hours ago, nihilii said:

I feel differently, knowing the builds involved.

 

That War Mace build skips Crowd Control and has pisspoor AoE with just Whirling Mace. The Rad Melee build has admittedly alright AoE and self-healing. TW is still king on the AoE DPS it inflicts as a side result of its DPS prowess, and brings native -RES.

 

And amazing soft control.

Quote

Both WM and Rad builds heavily leverage the epic snipe with Critical Strikes. TW is so natively powerful it doesn't need to do so. Admittedly, it also lacks a "no redraw" option, but it doesn't need to use snipes regardless. If you stick to primary powers, the gap between TW and other choices rises. Important from a pure power point of view, even more meaningful in the greater sense of concept.

With my 38 respec on my tw bio, the build i think the most "op" was the 85 seconds over the 68 seconds : cause the 85 seconds had confront, titan sweep slotted and 45 def S/L with offensive and still in the 600ish dps range.

 

 

Quote

I am still curious to see what Page 6 will entail. The great story is TW rebalance, but PPM changes could actually solidify TW's gap. Imagine TW gets the free damage part removed while at the same time PPM gets nuked into oblivion. It's possible in my mind to see an outcome where TW/bio goes down from 700 DPS to 600 DPS, while rad/bio degrades from 600 DPS to 450 DPS.

 

yeah my 85 seconds build has almost no dmg proc and so many slots free : i even "buy" a 3 slot hasten just cause i could and this "team" build is still in the 600 dps range.

 

Scrapper TW bio V5.mxd

 

Quote

Frankly, this is why I hope PPM doesn't take a hit. Not only proc builds make for more interesting tradeoffs, they smooth out current balance problems. Take Sentinels: most people already feel Sentinels are lagging, and a PPM hit might be the last straw. I've seen sentiment from the devs, provided my interpretation is correct, along the line of "if we fix PPM now, we can rebalance things better later". But with a development cycle spanning months if not years, this might leave some ATs and powersets, characters that are currently fine-ish if not as good as they should be, struggling for a long time. Tough pill to swallow.

 

i have to admit that i begin to "fear" that too : that TW receive a buff / nerf balance and that PPM change broke all the others at lol

Edited October 6, 2020 by Tsuko

[Kanil]

  

22 hours ago, nihilii said:

I feel differently, knowing the builds involved.

 

That War Mace build skips Crowd Control and has pisspoor AoE with just Whirling Mace. The Rad Melee build has admittedly alright AoE and self-healing. TW is still king on the AoE DPS it inflicts as a side result of its DPS prowess, and brings native -RES.

Both WM and Rad builds heavily leverage the epic snipe with Critical Strikes. TW is so natively powerful it doesn't need to do so. Admittedly, it also lacks a "no redraw" option, but it doesn't need to use snipes regardless. If you stick to primary powers, the gap between TW and other choices rises. Important from a pure power point of view, even more meaningful in the greater sense of concept.

 

I am still curious to see what Page 6 will entail. The great story is TW rebalance, but PPM changes could actually solidify TW's gap. Imagine TW gets the free damage part removed while at the same time PPM gets nuked into oblivion. It's possible in my mind to see an outcome where TW/bio goes down from 700 DPS to 600 DPS, while rad/bio degrades from 600 DPS to 450 DPS.

 

Frankly, this is why I hope PPM doesn't take a hit. Not only proc builds make for more interesting tradeoffs, they smooth out current balance problems. Take Sentinels: most people already feel Sentinels are lagging, and a PPM hit might be the last straw. I've seen sentiment from the devs, provided my interpretation is correct, along the line of "if we fix PPM now, we can rebalance things better later". But with a development cycle spanning months if not years, this might leave some ATs and powersets, characters that are currently fine-ish if not as good as they should be, struggling for a long time. Tough pill to swallow.

 

yeah, the ppm thing is absolutely strange to me because of that specifically... i really wonder where the idea even comes from that ppm needs fixing. practically every single build i've got on here leverages the ppm system to either close the gap between mid and top tier powersets or really abuses it (see the non-proc wm build vs the procced up wm build). it's worrying because it feels like there's a really insane disconnect somewhere in what high end builds are like vs some worry about 'things being logical outliers/not following a standard set of rules'.

 

even without the spectre of TW hanging over tier performances, it actually widens the gap between things like WM and well, uh, everything below WM in terms of performance. i wouldn't be surprised to find in proper testing that in a world where the ppm stuff is heavily nerfed/weakened, WM having a larger gap to whatever the second best set would be (likely still DB by my guess?) than TW does to WM, except WM has no caveat like TW does in how flexible it is in live play.

 

one of the big things about a potential ppm nerf that generally goes overlooked beyond high-spec builders is that scrappers rely on being able to leverage ppm to actually keep pace with stalkers and brutes - without it, they're kind of a dead end. many of the relevant stalker sets already outperform scrappers by quite a large margin in both ST and AOE without really 'sacrificing' anything besides a taunt aura.

 

also, a WM build actually doesn't need to sacrifice any of that stuff for those kinds of results. i wouldn't be surprised if that snipe was actually a total net loss for damage since that was the case in my testing with DB and BS, but it's something i've only incidentally tested.  i've actually posted twice in this thread getting better or close to results to your stuff using both a traditional non-proc build without having to rely on any epic power pools at all. honestly, in my live play of the powersets i'd actually pick wm over tw like 90% of the time due to how much tw actually suffers in speedrun/strong teams in comparison to WM generally being able to contribute more overall, but that's a pretty specific niche that i'd imagine most players don't really delve into (and that wouldn't be balanced around anyways). the better output on TW, even if it is a definitive outlier just ends up being like... not substantial unless you are carrying the team yourself - the speed in which stuff gets wrecked is such a huge issue, haha.

 

i actually also find SS to be in a weird spot because of this as well - SS is practically worthless for speed purposes because of the amount of downtime you have (near 20% downtime) actively being detrimental to the team on top of the general +dmg woes that come with the territory but in casual teams that crash is totally negligible. that's just a tangent on something that's bound to get nerfed for being an "overpowered outlier" that just don't really tack with my experience as well, though.

 

 

anyways, here's both of the post in case if you're lookin for vid evidence. i'm not actually sure if i have the builds on hand anymore, but they're not really that wild.

Spoiler

On 10/26/2019 at 1:30 AM, Kanil said:

 

 

mind you, this is basically the best possible result with the crit going off nonstop and like maybe three or so whiffs total. the actual average is more around a 1:35.

i really hate that the most optimal string i've found so far is just the 3 strongest attacks in a row over and over. i was really hoping to fit in the t2 since it's so fast but it apparently is suboptimal vs just lettin them rock

 

edit:

forgot the incarnate stuff.

it's t4 core muscle, t4 radial assault, t4 ageless the one you always pick, t3 degen -regen

 

 

 

On 1/8/2020 at 5:30 PM, Kanil said:

i kinda had a thought, like 'wait, i should be able to retroactively apply the things that make that battle axe build really strong to mace since my mace build was pretty vanilla' and i did.

 

so, here's a 1:15~ time for wm/bio.

 

 

timer starts at 4s~ when siphon dna is hit. i'm not actually sure if i gain time with siphon dna vs. just doing the chain but i decided to test it like once and got that run, haha.

the actual average of the mace was brought down by roughly 10s, so instead of averaging a solid 1:35 consistently, it averages a solid 1:25 pretty consistently now.

 

with this run, i'm almost certain that mace would be able to break 1m with a good stroke of luck.

 

 

 

[Tsuko]

On 10/7/2020 at 9:04 AM, Kanil said:

  

 

yeah, the ppm thing is absolutely strange to me because of that specifically... i really wonder where the idea even comes from that ppm needs fixing. practically every single build i've got on here leverages the ppm system to either close the gap between mid and top tier powersets or really abuses it (see the non-proc wm build vs the procced up wm build). it's worrying because it feels like there's a really insane disconnect somewhere in what high end builds are like vs some worry about 'things being logical outliers/not following a standard set of rules'.

 

even without the spectre of TW hanging over tier performances, it actually widens the gap between things like WM and well, uh, everything below WM in terms of performance. i wouldn't be surprised to find in proper testing that in a world where the ppm stuff is heavily nerfed/weakened, WM having a larger gap to whatever the second best set would be (likely still DB by my guess?) than TW does to WM, except WM has no caveat like TW does in how flexible it is in live play.

 

one of the big things about a potential ppm nerf that generally goes overlooked beyond high-spec builders is that scrappers rely on being able to leverage ppm to actually keep pace with stalkers and brutes - without it, they're kind of a dead end. many of the relevant stalker sets already outperform scrappers by quite a large margin in both ST and AOE without really 'sacrificing' anything besides a taunt aura.

 

also, a WM build actually doesn't need to sacrifice any of that stuff for those kinds of results. i wouldn't be surprised if that snipe was actually a total net loss for damage since that was the case in my testing with DB and BS, but it's something i've only incidentally tested.  i've actually posted twice in this thread getting better or close to results to your stuff using both a traditional non-proc build without having to rely on any epic power pools at all. honestly, in my live play of the powersets i'd actually pick wm over tw like 90% of the time due to how much tw actually suffers in speedrun/strong teams in comparison to WM generally being able to contribute more overall, but that's a pretty specific niche that i'd imagine most players don't really delve into (and that wouldn't be balanced around anyways). the better output on TW, even if it is a definitive outlier just ends up being like... not substantial unless you are carrying the team yourself - the speed in which stuff gets wrecked is such a huge issue, haha.

 

i actually also find SS to be in a weird spot because of this as well - SS is practically worthless for speed purposes because of the amount of downtime you have (near 20% downtime) actively being detrimental to the team on top of the general +dmg woes that come with the territory but in casual teams that crash is totally negligible. that's just a tangent on something that's bound to get nerfed for being an "overpowered outlier" that just don't really tack with my experience as well, though.

 

 

anyways, here's both of the post in case if you're lookin for vid evidence. i'm not actually sure if i have the builds on hand anymore, but they're not really that wild.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i have "privated" all my vids about Homecoming : we are still ban from stream and yt to protect the negociations with NC soft.

 

I suggest you to do the same, till we can showcase at will 🙂

[Kanil]

9 minutes ago, Tsuko said:

i have "privated" all my vids about Homecoming : we are still ban from stream and yt to protect the negociations with NC soft.

 

I suggest you to do the same, till we can showcase at will 🙂

yeah, that's why i was askin' about that. all the vids in my thread are pre-ban, so they should be in the clear since the rules were like, "after x date no vids please"

 

appreciate the heads up, though!

[beradical]

Rad/Son Defender

 

Here are my pylon times:

Rd 1   4:31    (w/Degenerative Core)
Rd 2   4:19    (w/Degenerative Core)
Rd 3   4:29
Rd 4   4:01

Average time 4:20 = 275.31 DPS

 

T4 Reactive Radial - T4 Musc Core - T4 Pyronic Core - T4 Ageless Core - T4 Assault Radial (Not used) -- No temps, lore, inspirations.

Proc heavy build, attack chain Shout > Shriek > Dominate, popping Dreadful Wail & Judgement when up. Perma LR & EF toggled.

 

Nothing awesome, but impressive for a Sonic Defender. There was some lag, could improve times a bit more on a better day, but a solid representation of what the Radsonder can do.

 

Edit - I forgot I had World of Confusion toggle DoT =/   I also respec'd adding 2% dmg & 3.75% rech (replaced old build below). Tightened up attack chain, used Rad Inf this time (to minimize hits/KBs = delays), and eek out some big gains, finally breaking the 4 min mark:

4:09 - 4:04 - 3:43 - 3:37 = average 233.25s for 292.22 DPS

 

Spoiler

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Free.Radical: Level 50 Natural Defender
Primary Power Set: Radiation Emission
Secondary Power Set: Sonic Attack
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Psychic Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Radiant Aura -- Prv-Heal/Rchg(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(3)
Level 1: Shriek -- SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg(A), SprVglAss-Dmg/Rchg(7), SprVglAss-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), SprVglAss-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprVglAss-Rchg/+Absorb(15)
Level 2: Accelerate Metabolism -- PreOptmz-Acc/Rech(A), PreOptmz-EndMod/End(3), PreOptmz-EndMod/Rech(5), PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/Rech(7), PreOptmz-EndMod/End/Rech(13), PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/End(34)
Level 4: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 6: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-Travel(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(17)
Level 8: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(27), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(48)
Level 10: Enervating Field -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Lingering Radiation -- PcnoftheT-Acc/EndRdx(A), PcnoftheT-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(29)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(15), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(5), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(31), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 16: Shout -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Apc-Dam%(23), GldJvl-Dam%(25), GldJvl-Acc/Dmg(25)
Level 18: Boxing -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(21), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Hct-Acc/Rchg(31), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(34)
Level 20: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), UnbGrd-Max HP%(29), Ags-Psi/Status(42)
Level 22: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(36), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(36), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(48)
Level 24: Amplify -- GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(A), GssSynFr--Build%(37), GssSynFr--ToHit(37), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(37), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(39), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(39)
Level 26: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(A)
Level 28: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Radiation Infection -- HO:Enzym(A)
Level 32: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 35: Dominate -- GldNet-Dam%(A), NrnSht-Dam%(39), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(40), UnbCns-Dam%(40), GldJvl-Dam%(40), GldJvl-Acc/Dmg(46)
Level 38: Dreadful Wail -- Erd-Dmg/Rchg(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Erd-%Dam(42), ScrDrv-Dam%(43), Obl-%Dam(43), Arm-Dam%(43)
Level 41: Mind Over Body -- GldArm-End/Res(A), GldArm-ResDam(46), GldArm-3defTpProc(48), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(50)
Level 44: World of Confusion -- CrcPrs-Conf(A), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(45), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(45), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(45), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(46), CrcPrs-Conf%(50)
Level 47: Screech -- SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBst-Dmg/Rchg(33), SprDfnBst-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprDfnBst-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprDfnBst-Rchg/Heal%(42)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 1: Vigilance 
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(17), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(19)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(19)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Radial Superior Ally 
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment 
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 0: Born In Battle 
Level 0: High Pain Threshold 
Level 0: Invader 
Level 0: Marshal 
------------

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by beradical

[nihilii]

Elec/Bio/Ninja Sentinel
T4 Musculature Core, T4 Ageless Core, T4 Degen Core, T4 Assault Radial

Zapping Bolt -> Sting of the Wasp -> Tesla Cage -> Zapping Bolt -> Sting of the Wasp -> The Lotus Drops

The Lotus Drops is swapped for a misc click every 2 rotations (Ageless, Hasten, Voltaic Sentinel, Aim, Charged Bolts if Opportunity is up)

 

Hybrid ON

1:40 = 511 DPS

1:37 = 523 DPS

1:39 = 515 DPS

 

Oddball build and my first Sentinel to break the 500 DPS barrier. It wouldn't translate all that well to real game performance, because much of it is tied to -res procs in sword attacks + Voltaic Sentinel attacking a lone target.

 

Inspiration comes from truly stange places:

1) I see a lot of folks going for the ninja mastery epic for theme reasons.

2) A post from @underfyre mentioned Bitter Freeze Ray as a cornerstone Ice Blast attack, procced out.

 

For some reason, these thoughts combined bounced in my head to try to make an Ice/SR/Ninja attack chain. But I'm always bummed about the lack of AoE in Ice, so I swapped to Elec/SR/Ninja. Then I considered I had an Elec/Bio/Ninja already 50, and it would be much faster to just respec and adjust IOs. So there you have it.

 

But, it could be pretty interesting to do Ice/*/Ninja. Bitter Ice Blast replaces Zapping Bolt and Bitter Freeze Ray replaces Tesla Cage, essentially. It's all upside, because both powers deal slightly higher base damage than their Elec counterparts, take more procs, and don't animate that much slower. You only lose out on VS - which isn't all that relevant in actual gameplay anyway.

 

Build:

Spoiler

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
		|MxDz;1551;734;1468;HEX;|
		|78DA6594CB4F135114C6EFB45391F2B642A12F4A11A7A5B4B488BA3244048D01944|
		|8E2CE4CC63296C1326D5A161A57FE15BA30F8881B36FE0FEEC5C7CEE7D6208F6AA2|
		|26BAC07A7ABF4333499B4C7E77BE7BCE37E79E7B6F17EECCB4BFB8747F4A289D170|
		|A46A5A22F99F6BA659B05CF8291B772A2FE6BA1277AA8EBD70C3B6F2EA7670B666E|
		|BD6CE58C823E4D89EBB146C08C79CBB42B667ADA2AEA57CB79C3B672FAF9F25AB12|
		|CDA178BC5427ADE344A969DF7CA97A592692E771DEACB66B9B262953AE4FB452BBF|
		|428EF9E06CC9CAA51BF6572C7BD5D017E89366F96E3F9596A2E7AB26F857F38877A|
		|A105955B8DE325F81EA16F33578E40DE84F509A2273DDE2975B6ADE09B0FD37D8F9|
		|17DCD63854D454E5AC0B3E67C0A313CC49D07B1AEC277F37FC5577847D07C1B1283|
		|304A686C001CAF1708EA757919A56C59CF6131C9DE3DC030A0BAB6247C356518E68|
		|D9C4B737C9A7153EB53E9A6CC3586963CF6C101E319AEBE0B98EA4C09A9901F2E8E|
		|2DE766D23BE7B97B9039EFCC6DC63EE837B54530FE7F67C41BF8F7D667E008F7F62|
		|BE07FB3E82DF28D7C7B9BE2CD6D33706DFFE87246BC40CF4C023BC0736EA35B78A5|
		|DCAEDE5DCDECB8809CD2237B486B5470C45F62DC29E913197CC8DD27AFDBCC77EDE|
		|971361DE1FDEBF14EFDF38EF5F0FF56F00FD1303DCDB18F904590BA6D04B1FC5857|
		|95FC31BA82BFA0CD41E83D9A7CC276095D632C86B19747990A3300FD0ABA17FCC1A|
		|5360FE795C8818E7C692F01BBE8D5A8675F46C38CE6B7C49F33EE216C751FD235CF|
		|F881FBDD2498BB35FFC1CE21202F989AA4BC624EEC17F748ACF29FB29B4F6249FCF|
		|6400316ED2D2F8862BCD776F9CEFDCF81F50A5980CD791E1DE86D4C67DAF1FED5A4|
		|DACCA5BEC91277DB46936D3A4649B94534DCA649332DFA42CAA8D7F04A148A5B55B|
		|D43B222BD9F7D22CD7AEF019F8EED4AE633D55A71647DC0FA7F6003D9CA30B91E5F|
		|B1CACDF6DFE4EC8318E38C68B5E59A91CDF708C0DC7F8A663FC1FC34E01A9|
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

 

[Underfyre]

9 hours ago, nihilii said:

Elec/Bio/Ninja Sentinel
T4 Musculature Core, T4 Ageless Core, T4 Degen Core, T4 Assault Radial

Zapping Bolt -> Sting of the Wasp -> Tesla Cage -> Zapping Bolt -> Sting of the Wasp -> The Lotus Drops

The Lotus Drops is swapped for a misc click every 2 rotations (Ageless, Hasten, Voltaic Sentinel, Aim, Charged Bolts if Opportunity is up)

 

Hybrid ON

1:40 = 511 DPS

1:37 = 523 DPS

1:39 = 515 DPS

 

Oddball build and my first Sentinel to break the 500 DPS barrier. It wouldn't translate all that well to real game performance, because much of it is tied to -res procs in sword attacks + Voltaic Sentinel attacking a lone target.

 

Inspiration comes from truly srtange places:

1) I see a lot of folks going for the ninja mastery epic for theme reasons.

2) A post from @underfyre mentioned Bitter Freeze Ray as a cornerstone Ice Blast attack, procced out.

 

For some reason, these thoughts combined bounced in my head to try to make an Ice/SR/Ninja attack chain. But I'm always bummed about the lack of AoE in Ice, so I swapped to Elec/SR/Ninja. Then I considered I had an Elec/Bio/Ninja already 50, and it would be much faster to just respec and adjust IOs. So there you have it.

 

But, it could be pretty interesting to do Ice/*/Ninja. Bitter Ice Blast replaces Zapping Bolt and Bitter Freeze Ray replaces Tesla Cage, essentially. It's all upside, because both powers deal slightly higher base damage than their Elec counterparts, take more procs, and don't animate that much slower. You only lose out on VS - which isn't all that relevant in actual gameplay anyway.

 

 

My spreadsheet believes that on a Rikti Pylon Electric/Bio should narrowly beat out Fire/Bio. But that's also assuming you're using the Psi pool instead of Ninja. I haven't build those with Ninja in mind yet. Might have different results with your build plugged in there. But it's showing ~355dps, not 500+. I also can't technically model for Degen core's HP drop since that isn't in whatsoever. I did consider it tho.

Edited October 22, 2020 by underfyre

[Tsuko]

9 hours ago, nihilii said:

Elec/Bio/Ninja Sentinel
T4 Musculature Core, T4 Ageless Core, T4 Degen Core, T4 Assault Radial

Zapping Bolt -> Sting of the Wasp -> Tesla Cage -> Zapping Bolt -> Sting of the Wasp -> The Lotus Drops

The Lotus Drops is swapped for a misc click every 2 rotations (Ageless, Hasten, Voltaic Sentinel, Aim, Charged Bolts if Opportunity is up)

 

Hybrid ON

1:40 = 511 DPS

1:37 = 523 DPS

1:39 = 515 DPS

 

Oddball build and my first Sentinel to break the 500 DPS barrier. It wouldn't translate all that well to real game performance, because much of it is tied to -res procs in sword attacks + Voltaic Sentinel attacking a lone target.

 

Inspiration comes from truly stange places:

1) I see a lot of folks going for the ninja mastery epic for theme reasons.

2) A post from @underfyre mentioned Bitter Freeze Ray as a cornerstone Ice Blast attack, procced out.

 

For some reason, these thoughts combined bounced in my head to try to make an Ice/SR/Ninja attack chain. But I'm always bummed about the lack of AoE in Ice, so I swapped to Elec/SR/Ninja. Then I considered I had an Elec/Bio/Ninja already 50, and it would be much faster to just respec and adjust IOs. So there you have it.

 

But, it could be pretty interesting to do Ice/*/Ninja. Bitter Ice Blast replaces Zapping Bolt and Bitter Freeze Ray replaces Tesla Cage, essentially. It's all upside, because both powers deal slightly higher base damage than their Elec counterparts, take more procs, and don't animate that much slower. You only lose out on VS - which isn't all that relevant in actual gameplay anyway.

 

Build:

  Hide contents

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
		|MxDz;1551;734;1468;HEX;|
		|78DA6594CB4F135114C6EFB45391F2B642A12F4A11A7A5B4B488BA3244048D01944|
		|8E2CE4CC63296C1326D5A161A57FE15BA30F8881B36FE0FEEC5C7CEE7D6208F6AA2|
		|26BAC07A7ABF4333499B4C7E77BE7BCE37E79E7B6F17EECCB4BFB8747F4A289D170|
		|A46A5A22F99F6BA659B05CF8291B772A2FE6BA1277AA8EBD70C3B6F2EA7670B666E|
		|BD6CE58C823E4D89EBB146C08C79CBB42B667ADA2AEA57CB79C3B672FAF9F25AB12|
		|CDA178BC5427ADE344A969DF7CA97A592692E771DEACB66B9B262953AE4FB452BBF|
		|428EF9E06CC9CAA51BF6572C7BD5D017E89366F96E3F9596A2E7AB26F857F38877A|
		|A105955B8DE325F81EA16F33578E40DE84F509A2273DDE2975B6ADE09B0FD37D8F9|
		|17DCD63854D454E5AC0B3E67C0A313CC49D07B1AEC277F37FC5577847D07C1B1283|
		|304A686C001CAF1708EA757919A56C59CF6131C9DE3DC030A0BAB6247C356518E68|
		|D9C4B737C9A7153EB53E9A6CC3586963CF6C101E319AEBE0B98EA4C09A9901F2E8E|
		|2DE766D23BE7B97B9039EFCC6DC63EE837B54530FE7F67C41BF8F7D667E008F7F62|
		|BE07FB3E82DF28D7C7B9BE2CD6D33706DFFE87246BC40CF4C023BC0736EA35B78A5|
		|DCAEDE5DCDECB8809CD2237B486B5470C45F62DC29E913197CC8DD27AFDBCC77EDE|
		|971361DE1FDEBF14EFDF38EF5F0FF56F00FD1303DCDB18F904590BA6D04B1FC5857|
		|95FC31BA82BFA0CD41E83D9A7CC276095D632C86B19747990A3300FD0ABA17FCC1A|
		|5360FE795C8818E7C692F01BBE8D5A8675F46C38CE6B7C49F33EE216C751FD235CF|
		|F881FBDD2498BB35FFC1CE21202F989AA4BC624EEC17F748ACF29FB29B4F6249FCF|
		|6400316ED2D2F8862BCD776F9CEFDCF81F50A5980CD791E1DE86D4C67DAF1FED5A4|
		|DACCA5BEC91277DB46936D3A4649B94534DCA649332DFA42CAA8D7F04A148A5B55B|
		|D43B222BD9F7D22CD7AEF019F8EED4AE633D55A71647DC0FA7F6003D9CA30B91E5F|
		|B1CACDF6DFE4EC8318E38C68B5E59A91CDF708C0DC7F8A663FC1FC34E01A9|
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

 

 

Nerf Sentin...

 

<ahem>

 

 

 

So the best Pylon time for a Katana / Ninjato user is a sentinel...

 

 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Tsuko

[Pzn]

1 hour ago, underfyre said:

My spreadsheet believes that on a Rikti Pylon Electric/Bio should narrowly beat out Fire/Bio. But that's also assuming you're using the Psi pool instead of Ninja. I haven't build those with Ninja in mind yet. Might have different results with your build plugged in there. But it's showing ~355dps, not 500+. I also can't technically model for Degen core's HP drop since that isn't in whatsoever. I did consider it tho.

Seems like the jump from your 355 dps to his 500 comes from the -res procs.  Definitely an interesting choice over psi epic

[Underfyre]

19 hours ago, josh1622 said:

Seems like the jump from your 355 dps to his 500 comes from the -res procs.  Definitely an interesting choice over psi epic

The jump in -res definitely helps, but I'm going to err on the side of the way dps is calced off of a pylon kill and the -4000 hp debuff from Degen Interface. After dropping in the build and butchering the sheet to account for the 0.22 and 0.13 pauses in the attack chain brings that build to 382.8 dps if anyone was curious.

[Gobbledigook]

Isn't that time with hybrid assault on though? What time does it do with it off?

 

Didn't the fire sentinel break the 2 minute mark with no hybrid?

 

Still good though. 

 

[Moonlighter]

The -4000 hp debuff also reduces Regeneration by the same ratio since that is based off total hit points, so you have to account for that.

 

And the reason you want to use an Electric Sentinel to break the 500 DPS mark is that it is pretty much accepted that Elec is weak so it is a bigger head turn than doing it with Ice.

[Darkir]

Made an all around SM/DA stalker with softcapped s/l and high melee defense. Time was 2:50 with T3 musculature, T3 reactive, T4 ageless, T3 hybrid but it was not activated. I'll try again with T4 everything and activating the hybrid when I make them all.

 

P.S. I could get a ton more ST dps by going Mu mastery, but I have endurance problems even with the ageless if I spec into Mu. Endurance issues might resolve once I get all the accolades and then I will check the Mu mastery route again.

 

Build: 

 

 

Spoiler

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Mutation Stalker
Primary Power Set: Savage Melee
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Savage Strike -- SprStlGl-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprStlGl-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 1: Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(34), Rct-ResDam%(34)
Level 2: Maiming Slash -- SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAssMar-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprAssMar-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprAssMar-Rchg/Rchg Build Up(15)
Level 4: Dark Embrace -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(5), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(5), UnbGrd-Max HP%(7), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(40)
Level 6: Assassin's Frenzy -- SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprStlGl-Rchg/Hide%(42), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Mk'Bit-Dam%(42), TchofDth-Dam%(43)
Level 8: Build Up -- RctRtc-ToHit(A), RctRtc-ToHit/Rchg(9), GssSynFr--Build%(9)
Level 10: Murky Cloud -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(11), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(11), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), GldArm-3defTpProc(43)
Level 12: Shadow Dweller -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(15)
Level 16: Obsidian Shield -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(17), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(17), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 18: Rending Flurry -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(19), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Arm-Acc/Rchg(27), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Erd-%Dam(50)
Level 20: Dark Regeneration -- Obl-%Dam(A), Erd-%Dam(21), ScrDrv-Dam%(21), TchoftheN-%Dam(23), ThfofEss-+End%(23)
Level 22: Boxing -- AbsAmz-Stun(A), AbsAmz-Stun/Rchg(29), AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(43), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(45), AbsAmz-EndRdx/Stun(45)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(25), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 26: Hemorrhage -- Dmg-I(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Mk'Bit-Dam%(31), TchofDth-Dam%(33), GldStr-%Dam(33), Hct-Dam%(33)
Level 28: Cloak of Fear -- SphIns-ToHitDeb(A), SphIns-Acc/ToHitDeb(36), SphIns-Acc/Rchg(36), SphIns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SphIns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(31)
Level 32: Savage Leap -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-%Dam(37), Arm-Dam%(39), Erd-%Dam(39), ScrDrv-Dam%(39), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(40)
Level 35: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 38: Superior Conditioning -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 44: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Tactics -- RctRtc-ToHit(A), RctRtc-ToHit/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 1: Assassination 
Level 1: Brawl -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(45), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), Hct-Acc/Rchg(46), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(50)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(50)
Level 1: Blood Frenzy 
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
------------

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
		|MxDz;1489;711;1422;HEX;|
		|78DA6554DB6E1251143DC30C85A1D0D2520AB4D07B61004BA1ADC66B1A6BD5A4806|
		|9D20F20133952520402685AAB0FFE822F3EE80FF8E21768A27E81B7FAE42F584DBC|
		|C707DC9DBD0A4D20813567EDDBDA7B9F21BFBBEE7E7EFDE1AA503C572A66B359D86|
		|A99951DD970E6EFB4CC56B95655057D1CF41D83A590971529535BE65DB324F9D031|
		|ADCB5BB2DA94A975B3B153B8DCB85D6B88C1CD5AAD92CA49B3281BCDED72DD639DA|
		|F954BDBAD72B5E4B24E5B75298BEE63C73AF1A1ABF5F2CDD45AADB857C89BCD966C|
		|EC1D0B0B921483BE2F8F7EAC4FDB26DE91CA8C26A6DF33CE7E604CEB6456E0E3A78|
		|78C2EA6B3F0FDCEF8C2808B68DB955DCDE26C7BC07B8C7DFB8CEEFB8C030F18299D|
		|5039BFA6FEE07CDA4FE02FC6BEBF8CB1003946747140F5EC1C63B7BF85ED2363FC0|
		|0581296D6F88EB0CE8902614C139F0C5EC5513F8E2736217CBA703E053EB359BE4B|
		|A44987261D9A5CD0E4FACDE8FEC39858625CA6987E8E11FD98D31015F230A778469|
		|81B806D85FC07D9A60EA2861735BCA811468D57A47908F31D3A6BB3E287CF01CF33|
		|8E5D605CBCC89839248C68E234D5F159DB696B3EC1F946601BD9E7D98C06991F1D5|
		|62D5E21DD7EAEA7F9377826E12C6322C7782A0FBCC1A8524C00FD04D04F10FD04D1|
		|CF18FA794DFD84D04F28C27B9AC0BE26B0AF29EC6BCAE098A924D73943FD8C6337E|
		|30EDC552750679C7301FB718F485B047B88600F13D8C31BD232092D93FF78767398|
		|53F412D78C625E51CC2BB6CAF619CA3B83BC3349D6BF08D46861F3B80FF38F398F8|
		|338039C016E947224C125A1C9475C0A7953B8A38BB8A3B3644BB35E91FECC39C6B5|
		|CE7BDC0E779F49307614635C3080716082319BE8C627BAF147C73655E961323DCC7|
		|20FB3D2C3E4B4CE3F09BD5E5C7953EBFC7308C5F2D2BD42A8D0F2C5455644280B3C|
		|D7AF5D4E51A6790F990DC5BA2B8727FD0DF6FF76D2FF11DE0DCC5EC63A8ADA591F5|
		|178FE0F06D7DFDD|
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Darkir

[Maxzero]

 

3.30 (210 seconds) for a SR/Rad Tanker:

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1549;750;1500;HEX;|
|78DA6554494F535114BEAF7D055A0AB4B48502656891CE94564D9C4012450C43130|
|2C69D692A5CA0A1699B0E06E3CA9F604CE40F38E086C461E1C6853FC0AD89BA70A5|
|E2C020EAC285A9E7BDEF084DFA42F9CEF07DF79C7B4E5F93EB13D6ADCBB7C78562B|
|D984D974AA92BE9DC9A2C36252BE5743993CF09ED69A44F2F12A909B92C7325195B|
|A814C89B97CB59B92E4B1ECE266556CAD87C7A29A3ABE1DBA772ABB22873E5D87FA|
|3652E9FCFC626332BABE54C6EC5A27B0B052997AC30F3C54559BC096756A60B44EA|
|BC54C82CC62E142B65995AC857B2A964BA5426929B7A8BD2E75407FD53B46EABAA7|
|091915085C109546D8C7660AB03B81538D418C51BA31E6B780B6C7A07B4BC079EA6|
|F315E62AFAF96661B0011B9C40CB5F6D50AA38435C23B88A9173ADAC394B391372C|
|2E415FAD9E728D6C8FC46E637315FA1E19B05F8E62A3D6294D8CD609B9A7FA23BEB|
|01E32E70600F38B80F3CF60368A4D35AF8162D7F1073FF32EA953CBF81DEE3883FA|
|1E9B4A1B2A9CD6F402E0C6C8F18748ECD058DB3036873433B463DDAF94676BE513B|
|DF48A51E1CDC8363067CE734F41D938C53C09721215CDC83EB316ABAEF03BB1F00F|
|B1E323E022636813EAAD3C93D7446847E5E88F13CF5D7C55BE81AC6160E8242F4F0|
|5C7B760DFA263DB790EB133CCFD7387B601CBEF715F90E55DC1D223A6FA9B707B93|
|B14EBE7DEFBB7118B7E010E7F65FF1BFBDF1977804F69F63ED6FA96D1736085EFB0|
|869E06538401DA6D9077CCBD3D23ED106B876E40E3E77BF847B13FFF18B801BE678|
|0B58B7454105A351807379C402E1CC24E4251D40B6F432BC98D70BDC84770A29F80|
|239FC11D3198802FF0862458FBC12A448CE7167B8E7AF7A8F938624A5C5BA0C6E7B|
|D7954C14F95FEB4B721A41EBEC3D5705D365E1749D4454ED4454ED645666B2346CC|
|634EE5C214537496D926B4EF89DECB8EE5F0F74228FC0DDB3B8A19142F26D33DADE|
|85B1CB88ADFA4DD5A5D10BAFDDAD80657B768F341AD6B3576BAC6BE5E63CF3848C6|
|F6468DBDE93BB2FF0178ECFEE3|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

Rotation is:

 

Gloom->Siphon->DB

Gloom->Siphon->Dark Ob->CS

 

Honestly am really happy with how this turned out. This guy is tanky as hell and has great AoE but with decent ST. 310 ST DPS is a lot more then I was expecting. Especially without moving into TW or SS.

 

I think the excellent proccing of Irradiated Ground (for 2 -res procs) and Dark Ob in the ST rotation giving us decent uptime of the -res proc (about 50%) really helps.

[nihilii]

16 hours ago, Moonlighter said:

And the reason you want to use an Electric Sentinel to break the 500 DPS mark is that it is pretty much accepted that Elec is weak so it is a bigger head turn than doing it with Ice.

Sentinel Elec Blast is truly awesome. Zapp is Blaze minus DoT, and Tesla Cage does damage making it a proper T4 that takes hold procs. Homecoming sped up the elec DoT ticks, and Thunderous Blast gets more benefit than every other mininuke as its original version had the longest recharge (plus, TB on a 90s base recharge means you actually get a full end drain to open every fight.) Even VS, questionable as it may be, is much easier to use with a "powexec_location self" macro, and it's an ideal spot for the Opportunity Strikes set to get the proc to go off.

[nihilii]

So, I27 is in testing and EM is out for scrappers. So far I'm getting ~600 DPS on a EM/bio/soul. Without a proper Mids setup and not much knowledge of the new powers yet, this feels preliminary at best (and hence, promising).

First I ran TF -> ET -> Moonbeam -> Barrage -> ET. Times in the 90s range. Some gaps.
Then I moved to TF -> ET -> Moonbeam -> Power Crash -> ET -> EP. Gapless, 75-80s. EP is replaced with BU or other clicks whenever.

All of these times with Hybrid active.

 

Cliff notes if you haven't checked the beta threads:

- TF now gives Energy Focus. Energy Focus speeds up ET to its old 1s animation

- ET recharges in 10s rather than 20s

- ET heals you if it crits. ET has a 20% chance to crit, and unlike Concentrated Strike, this seems to be a real crit affected by the ATOs.

- Power Crash replaces Stun. It's a 2s animation cone with poor DPS, but I figured it would fill the gaps nicely and serve as a host for Fury of the Gladiator -RES, to boost the big hitters. I'm not sure if that's smart.

Is anyone else toying with EM?

[jojogladco]

Rad/WM Tank

Incarnates:

Musculature Core 

Pyronic Partial Radial 

Degenerative Core

Longbow Radial Support (not used)

Ageless Core 

Assault Partial Radial 

Click Ageless>Hybrid>Hasten>AB hit start on timer

Attack Chain is Jawbreaker>Clobber>Shatter replacing Shatter with a Build Up/Hasten/Ageless/Radiation Therapy/Pyronic as they come up

 

This build is heavily leaning on procs. The variance in runs can be frustrating.  I've gotten two unicorn runs of 1:58 and 1:59 with Hybrid on and also gotten as bad as 2:28 and 2:32 with Hybrid on where I whiffed on multiple Clobbers or Force Feedback procs weren't going off and I had to fire off a Bash to fill a gap. In general I see results clustered between 2:08-2:18 with Hybrid on and 2:25-2:40 with Hybrid off.

 

Taking the high end of the range to low ball I get:

2:18= 405dps

2:40= 367dps

 

For fun I grabbed an offensive amplifier and with Hybrid on those runs were 1:55, 1:59, and 2:05 which makes me wish I could find a way to cram an extra 15% recharge into the build.

 

I used this build for a solo +4/8 No Temps No Deaths ITF and it worked fine. Won't hold up well enough to do no inspirations or buffed enemies. I only play solo and at 50 so don't pay any attention to the power pick order, I'm 100% certain that things can and should be shuffled around to make things more workable at lower levels. 

 

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1530;746;1492;HEX;|
|78DA65544B4F135114BED3990A2DE5594A79B4A514E89316EA233E0921021AA0848|
|889CB6602D73A813E32ED02E2CA851BE373C54E8D26266EFC056EFC133E70E50F10|
|4DD4A831A69E99F3859ACC04FACD3D8FEF7EF79C73A7B0BBE07B75E9D69C507C177|
|7F47ABD7855AF6C4BD35DD04BC6A6A0A763BE512D472FEBE5B234DB681DE180E282|
|BC2E2B7599BBA26F197AC3A8568AF366B96A06E02EC81D2973D7747AD337A5E85CA|
|F5677724B46E946C3A894FAEDD5E26E4D9A4659561A76BED7366ED4A4DCF2D9AFAB|
|52AF51B07FB1666CE6162BD22CED1159BD21CDBD411292A5FF3B09FA512C994D557|
|C5785C86BC2F503F89351FBC578CA2BF034351177B12FC1782C094C31A6D38CAF53|
|44CFFC42D967DB69E25199C7AD2699BBBD48CB8426BC7B14E3270CD33AEF11BE6D6|
|1FB7DB739F72EE97543AF1B7ABBA0B70B7A7BA0F71EC5B621B60DB61EC4F421B70F|
|B9F729D6630B6DBA3D836CEB3FA43DC38482D70375D63070933525FA54DBFF80723|
|B385774BC61FD0A75BA13B5EA5CE6BCC115E02AE3708131BFC67896EAD2CD39AEEE|
|E72EFBFCC32FD9177AC2EB87B4572F9F49EB0DB1AE50983112018E02A38CEB6992C|
|4BCC27FC07C2AE90B308F3B1054EC73447F737C14B58AA24663A8D1D871CC03E506|
|51D7A04562F956D837FE0DF857D89C6BB4F710F61E6AD223CED12947B0F34886D58|
|C5B5340DD9FC0144CBC55EDD34EA0FBF18FCC7A9E72C3A86A185D88A33B71742BF1|
|89D70974EB11556C9473D4D177EC4BBD077E001E305E20FE18263306BE34F8D3B3C|
|C3735476BBF474C9DE18E4C613267297712B9937FD89685C62CB8B2E09A46CE34A6|
|FD2999935C1325F918BE678C31AA7606BE4C866F451E3840BE1C6E570E9DD8A08AC|
|FB00E65065394C7F484B4A31B4C7F563752DAD1FD6FA61DDE198725EFB09C70584E|
|3A2CAB0ECBBA866DADEF826DF1F41C7D159A9FBDFF7D356CEF9796455130D7EDCB8|
|A3D2D878EE8AF5EE7576785AE401E276D3DFB9615BB46FB5B114BC1D6BB3FD07A7F|
|116BBDFF03A42F0A18|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

7 hours ago, nihilii said:

Then I moved to TF -> ET -> Moonbeam -> Power Crash -> ET -> EP. Gapless, 75-80s. EP is replaced with BU or other clicks whenever.

So you were going with the quick ET followed by the slow ET, right?

[Darkir]

On 6/25/2020 at 1:09 AM, Bopper said:

I won't say anything definitive, as I would have to test it on beta and just see which works out better. However, using napkin math (excel math, honestly), you'd be surprised just how much Radial brings to the table and my numbers might suggest it's actually better than Core. However, the reason why I can't say with certainty actually has to do ENTIRELY with Mud Pots. 

 

I'm sure you're aware, but not everyone else is so I'll present this for education purposes. The Assault Radial gives your damaging attacks a 6 PPM proc and the damage from that proc will depend on the base recharge and Area Factor of the attack (similar to the design formula). For click power attacks, the formula is:

DoubleHitDMG = 0.4 x 107.0897 x 0.2 x [0.8 x minmax(BaseRecharge, 1s, 30s) + 1.8] / AreaFactor

 

where Area Factor is:

AreaFactor = 1 + Radius x (11 x Arc + 540) / 30000

 

For toggles (and pseudopets, I imagine), the damage is calculated as:

DoubleHitDMG = 0.4 x 107.0897 x 0.11 x minmax(ActivatePeriod, 0s, 2s) / AreaFactor

 

In this case, the ActivatePeriod is the activation period of the toggle (for Mud Pots this is 2s).

 

So when I crank out the numbers comparing the Double-Hit Damage from Radial with a maxed out Core (+75% damage), I get the following.

	Base	75% Dmg	6ppm Proc	diff
CP	87.22	65.42	56.01	-9.41
KoB	188.07	141.05	186.76	45.71
FS	75.02	56.27	46.92	-9.34
Gloom	78.30	58.73	97.67	38.94
DO	40.04	30.03	68.01	37.98
Mud Pots	9.51	7.13	4.28	n/a

 

I left off the difference on Mud Pots for a reason, which I'll get to later. But if we just look at the attack rotation, only Cross-Punch and Foot Stomp improve from having Core over Radial, and it's only 9 damage different. However, Knockout Blow, Gloom, and Dark Obliteration each do roughly 40 more damage. But, we also must factor in the fact that as a 6 PPM proc, Cross-Punch and Knockout Blow are 81.2% and 82.2% chance to proc, respectively. All others are easily capped at 90%.

 

So if I evaluate my rotation: CP>Gloom>D.O.>KoB>CP>Gloom>FS, we can calculate that to be an arcanatime of 12.144s. So let's call it 13s to factor in occasional gaps in fluctuating recharge. Now let's consider the 120s duration, with a 13s attack chain I can fit in 9.23 chains. Let's round that down to 9 chains to be fair...to factor in other things I might cast, which is really just Rage (Hasten and Ageless are on the same 120s duration).

 

So 9 chains of 12.144s = 109.296s, which suggests I will have 10.704s of gaps and Rage casts. That is probably more than generous to assume. But it gives me a number to use, so let's use it.

 

With 9 chains of the above mentioned rotation, we can expect the following added damage from Core and Radial (factoring 95% chance to hit and proc probabilities)

	Per Chain	9x Chains
Attack Chain Core	451.85	4066.62
Attack Chain Rad	507.89	4571.01

 

A difference of 504.4 damage over the duration of the Hybrid. Or in another words, Radial adds 12.4% more damage than Core for the attack chain.

 

Ok...so that was my motivation for choosing Radial, however as I was putting together this exercise I had to factor in Mud Pots (which I didn't really focus on before). This is where Core catches up...big time. Not only do we see Mudpots doing more damage with Core than it does with Radial, but that damage is applied every 2 seconds. HOWEVER (and I don't know if this is technically working as intended...but it's working as designed, I think), the Double-Hit proc seems to still check once every 10 seconds roughly. I did a 2 tests to see how many procs I got from Radial over the duration of the Hybrid, and those tests produced 5 and 7 procs. So I strongly suspect the probability to proc is equal to 6 x 10 / 60 / (1 + 8 x 0.15 x 0.75) = 1 / 1.9 = 52.63% every 10s.

 

So if I wanted to compare Core to Radial for Mud Pots, the numbers would suggest the following, assuming 95% chance to hit per tick every 2 seconds. Not applying the 95% chance to the proc as I think if a tick misses, it will still get a chance on a subsequent tick. So I'll assume 52.63% chance to proc every 10 seconds:

	Total DMG
Mud Pots Core	406.41
Mud Pots Radial	27.05

 

From these numbers, we can see Core GREATLY outproduces Radial for Damage Auras. By 379.4 damage! Combine this with the analysis from the attack chain and we get:

	9x Chains
Core Total DMG	4473.03
Radial Total DMG	4598.07

 

This shows Radial still outproduces, but it's only +125 damage (+2.8%).

 

So...that all is mostly just food for thought. If I had a non damage aura like Invulnerability or Radiation Armor, then Radial would have been a clear choice given my slotting and attack chain. Since I have a damage aura, it is a bit of a toss up (should still test this though). As for Bio, I don't know which is better honestly. Bio has a damage aura, so that plays a big part, but I think either would do very well.

Ok, so now I have to ask a possibly dumb question. Would it be better to use the partial core or partial radial hybrids instead for this pairing? By using one of those you get access to the dmg buff chance and the ppm proc and the ppm proc might be high enough to give you the best of both worlds. Have you considered this?

[Bopper]

3 minutes ago, Darkir said:

Ok, so now I have to ask a possibly dumb question. Would it be better to use the partial core or partial radial hybrids instead for this pairing? By using one of those you get access to the dmg buff chance and the ppm proc and the ppm proc might be high enough to give you the best of both worlds. Have you considered this?

Honestly, I havent. It might be viable, but I never calculated it

[Tsuko]

11 hours ago, nihilii said:

Is anyone else toying with EM?

spend the night on EM Bio stalker :

 

Quote

 

yeah EP is better for stalker for critical quick AS.

 

we dont want to use slow ET but Crit quick AS has priority, so priority chain is better than strict, fixed rotation.

 

Opening : Bup / AS / TF / EP / Quick ET / EP

 

And there keep using this rotation till AS "proc" and manage the ATO build up proc at the same time. Fun gameplay but it requires a lot of practice, which is nice 🙂

 

Soul mastery is a mistake : i have to admit i play more my scrappers in pve and my stalkers in pvp.

 

At then end, looking for 100% quick ET is the way to go but the more important for stalkers remains the AS gimmick.

 

I didnt notice real big diference between assaut core and radial tbh.

 

EM bio E27 beta V3.mxd5.73 kB · 0 downloads

 

Average 1m35

Best without assaut 1m21

Best with assaut 1m12

 

The stalker Mini games has good synergy with "new" EM like STJ but is still very random for the AS stacks 😕

 

I feel that real stalkers (not like me :p) will do good things with EM and when stars have the good alignement and we make good offers to RnJesus, i suspect this AT to be able to go sub minute.

Not to mention that Stalkers are team beasts with their Teambuff critical %.

 

 

Tbh, i dont feel EM is for scrapper : scrapper's ATO are so tied to critical that i feel EM being the new savage mélée, powerfull but really not optimal for scrappers 😕

 

i ll spend more time tomorow on scrapper's EM

Edited October 25, 2020 by Tsuko

[Tsuko]

11 hours ago, nihilii said:

Without a proper Mids setup

Fiery Mélée is the perfect "image" for EM :

 

Scortch => Energy Punch (Mélée) LVL 1

Fire Sword => Barrage (Mélée) LVL 1

Cremate => Bone Smasher (Mélée)  LVL 2

Build up LVL 6

Breath of Fire => Power Crash (PBAOE) LVL 8

Confront LVL 12

Fire Sword Circle => Whirling Tickle (PBAOE) LVL 18

Incinerate => Total Focus (Mélée) LVL 26

Greater Fire Sword => Energy Transfer (Mélée) LVL 32

 

 

[nihilii]

5 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

So you were going with the quick ET followed by the slow ET, right?

Yep, exactly.

[Moonlighter]

I spend some time on an Energy Melee/Energy Aura scrapper specifically to test with no secondary damage boost and I also skipped snipes.

 

My best time was 3:10 kill. Of course there is a regen tick right at the 3 minute mark, so if you miss that you might add 10 seconds to make up for it. This is with incarnate Alpha - Hybrid - Interface.

 

My chain was TF - ET - EP - BS - EP repeat. It didn't look to me like using the long ET was the right call, especially where sometimes EP seemed to proc a short ET and I don't know exactly why.

 

I tried both Degen and Reactive; I got better times with Degenerative for Interface.

 

I could probably make better use of time and bring down the time with tweaking.

 

As a point of reference my MA/Ninja had a best time of 2:58.

 

Edit: After more fine tuning with EM/EA I hit 3:01, I suspect it was actually one second less because I seemed to just beat that 3 minute regen tick.

 

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Moonlighter

[Moonlighter]

Best time for my MA/Shield so far is 2:19. Edit: 2:16.

 

Edit: Ugh don't make me take the epic snipe.

 

Changing up my chain landed me at 2:08.

 

Update: Grrr. New day and I can't replicate the 2:08. I don't know what series of crits and procs led to that last night, or whether there was chip damage from a Vanguard that I missed.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Moonlighter