Proc Monsters - Tanker Edition

Amarlex · October 8, 2019

Oh this is fantastic. Thanks so much for sharing this; I'd been thinking about loading up my own Bio/SS tanker with more procs but was having trouble thinking outside the box of my already-existing build. The sheer audacity of putting this many procs in each attack is just... inspiring.

Arkterusss · October 13, 2019

On 10/6/2019 at 6:00 PM, Sir Myshkin said:
Ah, hmm, yeah:
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Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Bio Armor
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Hardened Carapace -- TtnCtn-ResDam(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(3), HO:Ribo(3), GldArm-3defTpProc(42)
Level 1: Jab -- SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(A), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(5), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 2: Inexhaustible -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(5), EndMod-I(40)
Level 4: Environmental Modification -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(7), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(9), Rct-Def/Rchg(9), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Rct-ResDam%(33)
Level 6: Adaptation
Level 8: Ablative Carapace -- Pnc-Heal(A), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(11), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(13)
Level 10: Punch -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(21), TchofDth-Dam%(21), Mk'Bit-Dam%(23), GldStr-%Dam(23), PrfZng-Dam%(25)
Level 12: Evolving Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17), UnbGrd-Max HP%(17)
Level 14: Haymaker -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(A), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), TchofDth-Dam%(34), Mk'Bit-Dam%(34), GldStr-%Dam(37), FrcFdb-Rechg%(39)
Level 16: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(27)
Level 18: DNA Siphon -- Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg(19), EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(19)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Dam%(43), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(43), UnbCns-Dam%(43), FrcFdb-Rechg%(45)
Level 22: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), HO:Ribo(25)
Level 26: Genetic Contamination -- Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Obl-%Dam(36), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(36), ScrDrv-Dam%(37), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(37)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(29), GssSynFr--Build%(29)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(31), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(31), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(50), RedFrt-EndRdx(50)
Level 32: Parasitic Aura -- TchoftheN-Acc/Heal(A), TchoftheN-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(33), EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(33)
Level 35: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Arm-Dam%(39), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(40), Obl-%Dam(40), ScrDrv-Dam%(42), FrcFdb-Rechg%(45)
Level 41: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Gloom -- Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(46), CldSns-%Dam(46), GldJvl-Dam%(46), Apc-Dam%(48)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(48), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(50)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), Mrc-Rcvry+(15)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(15)
Level 6: Defensive Adaptation
Level 6: Efficient Adaptation
Level 6: Offensive Adaptation
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
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Something very important to note about this build, Rage must not be stacked during the crash. Activate the second Rage after the crash period and the Gaussian's proc will kick you up for a considerable amount in those next few attacks. Between that, and the Hybrid Assault, I could stack my damage up to 400%. This build does everything in its power to absolutely invalidate and make a mockery of the entirety of the concept towards Rage's crash.

So, if I understand you correctly, you're saying not to double stack Rage at all?

On the one hand I thought I read a "It doesnt matter if you double stack; just punch through it with damage procs"
And the other hand it seems like you're saying not to.

🤔

Sir Myshkin · October 14, 2019

5 hours ago, Arkterusss said:

So, if I understand you correctly, you're saying not to double stack Rage at all?

On the one hand I thought I read a "It doesnt matter if you double stack; just punch through it with damage procs"
And the other hand it seems like you're saying not to.

🤔

No, I'm saying don't apply a second trigger of Rage during the crash period, which is a 10/s window. If you activate Rage while under the effects of the Crash, you'll completely invalidate the Guassian's proc, and honestly there's absolutely no reason to be double-stacked during the crash anyway, as it has no benefit. Once the crash is over, apply the second Rage as normal and reap the benefits of the Gaussian +BU for 5.25/s.

Sir Myshkin · October 18, 2019

Tank Testing: Update #5

General Comments

Well, isn’t that just the frustrating event of the day? I twitch-trigger-clicked a button on my mouse and cause the page to go backwards and wiped about two pages worth of stuff. Guess that’s what I get for typing everything up in the reply box, eh? Anyway, looks like we’re getting some TL;DR edition of what I wrote before. Maybe that’s a good thing? /em shrug

Anywho, going to be rounding out the testing for Tanks a bit earlier than originally planned. Most of the testing I’ve completed up to this point has been remarkably consistent to expectation excluding the outlier case of Super Strength and evaluating that set a lot more than planned. Due to the extended amount of specific testing done for that set (both being relevant to the Tank changes on test, and just general curiosity on how procs were integrating with its performance) I’ll be cutting short on going through some of the last few builds.

In total I had roughly 12 planned Tank builds to run, @Rylas took a couple of those for me and fed back the info for study, which definitely helped, but each build takes upwards of 45 minutes to roll, level, and slot, which means there’s well over 10 hours of effort involved in just creating the characters, and I honestly haven’t got that much time right now just to validate what looks to be consistent returns up to this point. The last few builds in the pipeline weren’t containing any abnormalities or unique abilities that warranted extra attention, they were mostly just confirmation of survivability when building under a heavy proc-load. After Radiation Armor proved to be so well balanced from a survival standpoint having the least amount of crowd-control options, I know that the other Res sets should fair similarly

Beyond that this update will cover a few things, and then once Kinetic Melee gets fixed on Beta (if it gets fixed any time soon), that’ll be the last set I really want to mess around with from a melee-proc stand point, and yes I could just roll it up on a Brute to get the same idea, but I wanted to scale it based on the Tank changes as that’d be the “bottom” of the scale, and Brute, Scrapper, and Stalker should, in theory all scale upwards from that value.

Something that will be eventually coming down the pipeline will probably be a more comprehensive “How To” style guide on managing and building Proc Monsters. Testing Tanks comprehensively covers four AT’s alone, and the work between Defender/Controller covered another five-ish. I say “ish” because technicality in the primary of Blasters, Sentinels, and Dominators via Defenders and Controllers respectively. A few others have taken on the challenge of exploring Masterminds, so that leaves very little left in the way of validation (Epic AT’s).

Super Strength

To take a bit of a follow up on this set, SS got a lot of extra attention due to some of the Tank changes and the general conflict of Rage and the specific attention it was getting in the Beta discussions. I spent a lot more effort dealing with this attack set than originally planned and discovered the aspect that this set can/is so easily broken right now. Not in a “broken, bad” way, but a “broken, OP” way.

I didn’t consider, or even officially recognize any set as being the “King” of procs, but SS is likely to finally be that set. They overshadow the disfunction of Rage’s crash in a huge way and help swing that set overboard in a way that it becomes an outlier set with Titan Weapons. I posted about the kind of measured performance times in a previous update, but I went further into the study on the Beta threads by measuring against Brute performance using the same (flipped) build. With a Brute’s added scale, I did end up breaking the 2:00 mark (1:55) which pushes SS into the territory of “this is bonkers.”

I fully expect that at some point that our Dev team will be doing a sweeping pass over on SS soon™ and bringing this set in line, and I fully expect it to cause a lot of waves, but it’ll be warranted changes. What a lot of people won’t realize is that whatever happens, it will be a nerf. On paper though, it’ll look like a “buff.” We’ll keep the secret between us though, eh? 😉

If you want to do some stupid melee antics, roll up that SS character while you still can.

Titan Weapons

The elephant in the Melee Room. There were discussions I had with a few folks about validating interactions with this set, momentum triggers, additions of powers into the momentum swing, and how procs validate against the animation time changes. I intentionally didn’t test with Bio Armor on this one because I wanted to see more of how this set performed on its own merits, and also to play around with how Melt Armor would impact the set (also, Char).

With momentum altering the physical time it takes an attack to execute, it doesn’t appear to alter the impact of proc triggers. I got relatively expected returns on Crushing Blow, Follow Through, Rend Armor, and Arc of Destruction (in order of least to highest probability, and total proc return). Something that was interesting to note in the process, if I got a poor proc return, and the minor DoT didn’t execute from FT, then FT became the weakest attack in my cycle.

My average single-attack damage return (in total) was about 400, with a total average in the 500-550 range when accounting for RA and AoD, proc misses, and -Res variances. CB and FT were typically ~400 with procs, AoD and Char in the 600’s, and RA was my spike outlier at reaching over 900 with active -Res occurring (at least one recorded hit of 937.77).

I did a build with Enflame, Char, and Melt Armor included into the structure in order to also inspect the impact on adding non-set abilities into the mix, and what value they might add or detract. Enflame became a pretty successful tool for Defender and Controller builds that needed an extra kick of -Res to help up damage, and in general the ability does a solid amount (comparatively for those AT’s). For TW, and realistically Melee in general, Enflame’s return doesn’t look to be as valuable. Its total impact was entirely weighed to its addition of -Res to the chain, and that one factor helped compensate its usage at all. Char on the other hand hit significantly well, but the downside is that it couldn’t get down to a reasonably chain-inclusive time (with FF+Rech I could get into the 9-10/s cooldown range, otherwise I was looking at 11/s). Given that it can’t be consistently wrapped into a momentum swing, I was more likely using it to tail the end of a cycle and using far less often than would’ve been worth value.

When it came to cycling things in between TW attacks, one huge disadvantage that building for procs had on the set is the inability to measure my recharge times more effectively. I stuck to the ground rules of “no rech in the attacks” as much as effectively possible, but the value return needed to make a performance chain just can’t exist in global alone. I feel like the inclusion of procs compensated under performance here, and that there’s a fine line between the original “high yield” style of building, and proc-inclusion that must be found, and drawn bolder.

I also want to point out that, with such a definitive base line of 400 effectual damage per attack, I don’t see Char or Gloom (the two most prominent choices of ST improvement for Tanks in their Epics) being a necessarily imperative add. Gloom ends up base lining near the same value as TW’s weakest option (CB), and Char has a recharge that’s just too high that it’d be balanced in a specific part of the rotation. For some, that added chaos would break concentration, but it would add a marginal uptake to the average yield. It’s not a bad attack to replace CB in a chain, or honestly even FT, but it would cycle in and out in abnormal places to use it. The difference Char would create is also an inconsistent roll. At full proc we’re talking ~600-650 damage all-in, but if it only rolls half of them, it’ll have much more variance than something like CB which has an average of 400, with a spike of ~480 (essentially whether it gets just 2 procs, or all 3). Basically, if Char could miss a proc, its overall performance improvement is enough to balance out to still be at, or slightly better than if you’d used CB in its place. If all procs stayed consistently high, then Char would swing DPS considerably upward (~25-30 pts).

Right now my average consensus of measured times for Tanks is in the 3:00-6:00 range, with higher-performers breaking into the 2:00-3:00. Without the added benefits of additional -Res that Bio Armor offers, TW sits in the 2:45-3:15 window, just like SS does. Given that, I’d anticipate that adding Bio into the equation, TW should return, for Tanks, similar values (ie: I should be hitting 2:00 Pylon times on Bio/TW). For most of the sets, standard performance is falling within 4:00-6:00 on a Pylon run.

I don’t really have a further, more in depth breakdown for TW, but I can add from a survival stand point, I had to give up a lot of padding you can, and probably should want in regards to resistance (at least S/L). I don’t know what the critters in Comic-Con got loaded up with, but there were a few in there that were able to chew through SR in a fast hurry. It felt an awful lot like someone had built something in there to annihilate SR, I just couldn’t keep that set alive in the farm at +4/8. SR does give a lot of freedom for leveraging a proc-focused build though, otherwise, and Tanks hit the softcap very quickly with that set.

EDIT: I wanted to add in some additional information I didn't have time to do earlier when I was writing this up. I did the correction on the SR/TW build to set for "optimal" chain (RA > FT > AoD > CB > FT). Wasn't too far off, just had to flip a few powers into sets to get the recharge added in. This is a very tight scenario, too. I could only explain it as anything other than server delay with this attack chain, I'd get stuck on that first FT a lot where the game was going "wait... what'd they click? Should I fire that? I don't know... did we fire it yet? NOPE, oh well, they selected AoD, lets fire that off!" I had to have FT queued to make sure it'd trigger because the momentum fall-off was in the .0#/s of time shaved. During BU, that Momentum streak is 10/s so I'd go full chain+WS+CB, and try and que up FT, sometimes I'd catch it, sometimes it'd miss and I'd have to immediately hit RA. This chain is very much about paying attention, catching the server ticks appropriately, having attacks queued, and paying attention and it's super stressful. I've run a lot of attack chains, this is the only one where I've been like "argh!"

So, I ran a crazy amount of Pylon runs with this trying to figure out the balance point. I tried running with, and without Char, and eventually also both versions of the Hybrid Assault. What I can say is that having Char used didn't really change anything. I tried swapping for CB in the momentum chain, and also just spiking it in whenever it was available, it didn't really matter. I had been getting times around 3:15-3:30, but was seeing an occasional 3:00-3:15 window and I knew I needed to tighten something, so I started eliminating Char completely and focusing just on TW attacks, and I managed to close 2:56, 2:58, and one odd 2:51 (I think I just caught a break on a server tick there). Comparatively these times were tighter, and consistent compared to my wide swing on the inefficient chaining with proc overload. It did reveal that my expectation on performance was accurate though, the Procs were compensating inefficiency.

The adjusted build lowered proc count, and probability, but tightened to be much more effective. When I tossed in some testing with the Hybrid Assault Radial (the double proc), I saw my times waiver into the 2:45-3:00 window, but because the chain could be so easily disrupted (missed attack, failure to stack a -Res), I also ended up in the 3:00-3:15. Yeah, I ran a lot of Pylons in the last hour and a half or so. At the end, not expecting much, but hoping this would be the final Coup of the TW runs, I swapped over to Assault Core, and targeted the next victim.

And I crushed it in 1:59, and I was like "...What?" I mean, I know I'd predicted 2:00 like four hours ago, but... to nail it exactly was a bit weird, and with SR no less.

I ran it again, on the next Pylon. Even took a small 30/s break to just... kind of mentally prep for it, I dunno. But I hit the record button, and started swinging. Close out at 2:00 even.

No bonus +Dam from Bio Armor, no bonus -Res from Bio Armor, 2:00. I honestly don't know that I even want to find out what the Bio Armor kicked one will do, but we know it'll be sub 2:00. I don't know if the world is ready for a Tank to do that kind of damage.

Oh, one more note of interest, I had to swap a proc in Crushing Blow for a second Achille's Heel proc. Part of what I'd determined resulted in so many variances was the fact that I wasn't getting nearly consistent enough -Res, and adding one to CB gave me two kicks every 6/s, made it much more stable.

Oh, oh! and just for proof, I uploaded the unedited file:

https://youtu.be/fS9wuABwvCU

The forum structure really hates dealing with large posts.

So this is the original build I went in with:

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Secondary Power Set: Titan Weapons
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(3), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Rct-Def/Rchg(5), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Rct-ResDam%(23)
Level 1: Defensive Sweep -- SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(A), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(11), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Obl-%Dam(25), ScrDrv-Dam%(27)
Level 2: Focused Senses -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(5), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(7), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 4: Agile -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(9)
Level 6: Practiced Brawler -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Dodge -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(9), Ksm-ToHit+(15)
Level 10: Spirit Ward -- Heal-I(A)
Level 12: Evasion -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(13), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(13), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 14: Mystic Flight -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A)
Level 16: Enflame -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(17), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(17), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(21), PstBls-Dam%(23), Ann-ResDeb%(46)
Level 18: Crushing Blow -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(19), TchofDth-Dam%(29), Mk'Bit-Dam%(29), TchofLadG-%Dam(31), GldStr-%Dam(45)
Level 20: Rune of Protection -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(21)
Level 22: Build Momentum -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(36), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(37), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(37), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(50), GssSynFr--Build%(50)
Level 24: Lucky -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(27)
Level 26: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 28: Follow Through -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(34), ExpStr-Dam%(34), Mk'Bit-Dam%(34), GldStr-%Dam(36), FrcFdb-Rechg%(36)
Level 30: Rend Armor -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(31), TchofLadG-%Dam(31), Mk'Bit-Dam%(33), Hct-Dam%(33), AchHee-ResDeb%(33)
Level 32: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Whirling Smash -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Arm-Acc/Rchg(39), Arm-Dam%(39), FrcFdb-Rechg%(40)
Level 38: Arc of Destruction -- Mlt-Acc/Dmg(A), Mlt-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Obl-%Dam(40), ScrDrv-Dam%(42), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(42), FrcFdb-Rechg%(42)
Level 41: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(46)
Level 44: Char -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), GldJvl-Dam%(45), Apc-Dam%(45), UnbCns-Dam%(46), GldNet-Dam%(48), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(48)
Level 47: Melt Armor -- AnlWkn-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(A), AnlWkn-Acc/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(43), Mrc-Rcvry+(43)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(43)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 1: Momentum
------------


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And this is the revised build that has a tightened attack chain of RA > FT > AoD > CB > TS/WS > FT, I'd probably do more (personally) to change this build further from an auxiliary power stand point, but left the rest of it as-is because I wanted to try and modify this enough that I could re-test without respecing. Technically I did pull Enflame for TS, but WS functions in the same place for this purpose.

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Secondary Power Set: Titan Weapons
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(3), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Rct-Def/Rchg(5), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Rct-ResDam%(23)
Level 1: Defensive Sweep -- SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(A), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(11), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Obl-%Dam(25), ScrDrv-Dam%(27)
Level 2: Focused Senses -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(5), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(7), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 4: Agile -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(9)
Level 6: Practiced Brawler -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Dodge -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(9), Ksm-ToHit+(15)
Level 10: Spirit Ward -- Heal-I(A)
Level 12: Evasion -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(13), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(13), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(15)
Level 14: Mystic Flight -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A)
Level 16: Titan Sweep -- Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Obl-Dmg(17), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(21), Obl-%Dam(23), FrcFdb-Rechg%(46)
Level 18: Crushing Blow -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(19), TchofDth-Dam%(29), Mk'Bit-Dam%(29), TchofLadG-%Dam(31), GldStr-%Dam(45)
Level 20: Rune of Protection -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(21)
Level 22: Build Momentum -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(36), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(37), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(37), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(50), GssSynFr--Build%(50)
Level 24: Lucky -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(27)
Level 26: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 28: Follow Through -- Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Hct-Dmg(34), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(34), Hct-Dam%(36), Mk'Bit-Dam%(36)
Level 30: Rend Armor -- SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(31), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), TchofLadG-%Dam(33), GldStr-%Dam(33), AchHee-ResDeb%(33)
Level 32: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Whirling Smash -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(39), Obl-%Dam(39), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), FrcFdb-Rechg%(40)
Level 38: Arc of Destruction -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(40), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(42), Arm-Dam%(42), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(42)
Level 41: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(A), AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(46)
Level 44: Char -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), GldJvl-Dam%(45), Apc-Dam%(45), UnbCns-Dam%(46), GldNet-Dam%(48), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(48)
Level 47: Melt Armor -- AnlWkn-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(A), AnlWkn-Acc/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(43), Mrc-Rcvry+(43)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(43)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 1: Momentum
------------


| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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Build Management

At this stage in all of the testing done so far I think, as mentioned at the beginning of this update, that the consistent pattern of improvement in melee attack sets is going to reflect a lot on build management and making the call of what sets to include, what to scrap, and what value you add or loose with those changes. This, I think, is going to be the biggest core on how someone needs to understand building and approaching Proc Monster design. The “how to” aspect of it is probably one of the biggest questions that’s come up, so that’d likely be the next approach for me.

I wanted to show kind of more what specifically this meant in an actual scenario. So the Ice/Stone/Soul build that @Rylas tested for me was partnered with an Ice/Stone/Leviathan, and between those I mulled through the data given back to me, and the results of the experience, a bunch of discussion on their performance, and the return on all that. For me Ice/Stone is a particularly near-and-dear combination because it is quite literally the only Tank I have, and ever will play. Having someone else take the reins on testing it seemed justified as I’d personally be biased or carry a skewed perception. I took the info that was gathered and applied it to a secondary, adjusted build for Ice/Stone/Soul that was “performance tweaked.” I then, later on, returned to my own Ice/Stone who was idling around 34, and started working on him again in the last couple days. I cracked open my original (way before Proc Monsters) build and compared it to the adjusted proc build.

Between the two the biggest difference I knew I lost was the ability to iCap the Ice Tank in a non-proc build. I didn’t want to personally give this up, but it wasn’t something I could manage to stack in the pure-proc build (small note here, technically the proc-build had Hasten and could double-stack on Energy Absorption, but that’s a relatively inconsistent thing to rely on as you’re dealing with variable body counts). My original goal with the Ice/Stone was also to focus on being a “pocket Controller” through the stone epic. Through feedback on power interactions in the proc builds, I’ve altered that conception based on how effectively I could leverage fewer powers, better.

My new rules for the build I wanted: iCap potential, No Hasten. Simple.

I knew that I could spam Tremor in the Proc builds at a 5/s kickback, which means I can have a pretty high chance of keeping FF+Rech proc going in a full spawn (which puts the build at 180% global, no Hasten). How do I get more AoE though? Dark Obliteration and Gloom give me two key attacks that fix AoE, and my ST problem (Stone kinda has a ST problem). I still wanted more soft control in there though, just as assurance, which is where I landed on Mighty Leap and Force of Will going live. That ability auto gives a Foot Stomp clone AoE KD, so bam, two-for-one since I planned for SJ anyway. I end up leveraging a lot more KD/KB effects in this build in exchange for the loss of sleeps/disorients. And yes, I took Hurl Boulder. Despite being a lackluster power it’s still really effective and stopping runners, and it looks pretty hilarious to chuck a giant rock at someone as they run away.

This was the revised Ice/Stone/Soul from the tested build:

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Stone Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(3), RedFrt-Def(3), RedFrt-EndRdx(5), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(5), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 1: Stone Fist -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(7), PrfZng-Dam%(9), TchofDth-Dam%(9), Mk'Bit-Dam%(11), GldStr-%Dam(11)
Level 2: Hoarfrost -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-Heal(15), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(17), Pnc-EndRdx/Rchg(37), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(40)
Level 4: Chilling Embrace -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Heavy Mallet -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), TchofDth-Dam%(33), Mk'Bit-Dam%(34), GldStr-%Dam(34), FrcFdb-Rechg%(34)
Level 12: Icicles -- SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(A), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(13), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(29)
Level 14: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(17), HO:Ribo(25)
Level 16: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(25), Rct-ResDam%(31), Ksm-ToHit+(31)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(19), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(19), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(21), RedFrt-EndRdx(21), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 20: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 22: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), GssSynFr--Build%(33)
Level 24: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(27), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(27), EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(29)
Level 28: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(42), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(48)
Level 30: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 32: Hibernate -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Tremor -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(36), Obl-%Dam(36), Arm-Dam%(36), ScrDrv-Dam%(37), FrcFdb-Rechg%(37)
Level 38: Seismic Smash -- Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(39), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(39), GldStr-%Dam(39), Hct-Dam%(40), UnbCns-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Gloom -- Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Apc-Dmg(43), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Apc-Acc/Rchg(43), Apc-Dam%(46), GldJvl-Dam%(46)
Level 44: Dark Obliteration -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), CldSns-%Dam(45), PstBls-Dam%(45), JvlVll-Dam%(46), Ann-ResDeb%(50)
Level 47: Stone Mallet -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(48), ExpStr-Dam%(48), Mk'Bit-Dam%(50), GldStr-%Dam(50)
Level 49: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(42)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(23)
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany
------------


| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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This was my original, pre-proc build:

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Echo Gebeb: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Stone Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Earth Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(3), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(3), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(21), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(33)
Level 1: Stone Fist -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(7), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 2: Chilling Embrace -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Heavy Mallet -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(5), CrsImp-Dmg/Rchg(5), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Hoarfrost -- NmnCnv-Heal(A), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(9), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(9), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(23), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 10: Taunt -- MckBrt-Taunt(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg(11), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(11), MckBrt-Acc/Rchg(45), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng(46), MckBrt-Rchg(46)
Level 12: Icicles -- Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), Erd-%Dam(13), ClvBlo-Dmg/EndRdx(23), ClvBlo-Acc/Dmg(34), ClvBlo-Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(45)
Level 16: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(19), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(19), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(21), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 20: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 22: Tough -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(50), GldArm-3defTpProc(50)
Level 24: Super Jump -- Spr-EndRdx/Jump(A)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- GifoftheA-Def/Rchg(A), GifoftheA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(27), EffAdp-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(27), EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(33)
Level 28: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(29), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(29), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(43)
Level 30: Hurl Boulder -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(31), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(40)
Level 32: Hibernate -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Tremor -- OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(A), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End(36), OvrFrc-Dmg/End/Rech(36), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(36), OvrFrc-End/Rech(48)
Level 38: Seismic Smash -- Hct-Dam%(A), Hct-Dmg(39), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hct-Acc/Rchg(40), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(40)
Level 41: Salt Crystals -- FrtHyp-Sleep(A), FrtHyp-Sleep/Rchg(42), FrtHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(42), FrtHyp-Acc/Rchg(42), FrtHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(43), FrtHyp-Plct%(45)
Level 44: Quick Sand -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 47: Stalagmites -- Stp-Acc/Rchg(A), Stp-Acc/Stun/Rchg(48), Stp-EndRdx/Stun(48)
Level 49: Fault -- Stp-Acc/Rchg(A), Stp-Acc/EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(37)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(37)
------------


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And this is the build I ended with that took the proc-values and applied them to a performance build need. Basically a "best of both worlds" kind of take (and it functions without that pesky Hasten):

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Echo Gebeb: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Stone Melee
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Force of Will
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(3), RedFrt-EndRdx(3), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(11), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(21), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 1: Stone Fist -- SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(7), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(7), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(15), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17)
Level 2: Chilling Embrace -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Heavy Mallet -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(5), TchofDth-Dam%(5), Mk'Bit-Dam%(15), GldStr-%Dam(17), FrcFdb-Rechg%(25)
Level 6: Wet Ice -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Hoarfrost -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(9), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(9), Prv-Heal/Rchg(23), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(34), Prv-Absorb%(34)
Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 12: Icicles -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(13), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(23), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(34)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(45), HO:Cyto(48)
Level 16: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Glacial Armor -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(19), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(19), Rct-Def/Rchg(21), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Rct-ResDam%(45)
Level 20: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 22: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(43), HO:Ribo(43)
Level 24: Mighty Leap -- Spr-EndRdx/Jump(A)
Level 26: Energy Absorption -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), HO:Cyto(27), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(27), EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(33)
Level 28: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(29), HO:Cyto(29), HO:Cyto(33), Ksm-ToHit+(46)
Level 30: Hurl Boulder -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(31), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 32: Hibernate -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Tremor -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), Arm-Dam%(36), Obl-%Dam(36), ScrDrv-Dam%(40), FrcFdb-Rechg%(48)
Level 38: Seismic Smash -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Hct-Dam%(39), GldNet-Dam%(39), UnbCns-Dam%(40), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Gloom -- Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Apc-Dmg(42), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Apc-Acc/Rchg(42), Apc-Dam%(43), GldJvl-Dam%(45)
Level 44: Dark Obliteration -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), CldSns-%Dam(46), PstBls-Dam%(50), JvlVll-Dam%(50)
Level 47: Tactics -- HO:Cyto(A), GssSynFr--Build%(48)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(37), Mrc-Rcvry+(50)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(37)
------------


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Edited October 18, 2019 by Sir Myshkin
Update. The forum really doesn't like large posts...

Bopper · October 18, 2019

2 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Tank Testing: Update #5

Great job on all the testing. It truly is a major contribution to the community.

Sir Myshkin · October 18, 2019

Well, I really tried to keep things succinct in the same post, but the forum really freaks out when you start editing super long posts. Here is the video it wouldn't let me include in the original post:

https://youtu.be/fS9wuABwvCU

TungstenShark · October 18, 2019

@Sir Myshkin thanks for your work on this, as well as to @Rylas and others who contributed. We need someplace to consolidate the various proc builds now. 🙂

After all the extensive testing, without delving too deeply into an already incredible amount of work and effort...how would you rank the various Tanker proc builds? I know this can be highly subjective, as I don't mean just straight damage (though that's a component), but the overall flow and how they felt while playing and testing?

Sir Myshkin · October 19, 2019

13 hours ago, TungstenShark said:

After all the extensive testing, without delving too deeply into an already incredible amount of work and effort...how would you rank the various Tanker proc builds? I know this can be highly subjective, as I don't mean just straight damage (though that's a component), but the overall flow and how they felt while playing and testing?

TL;DR I can't.

There's not a lot that procs are going to necessarily change from a play stand point. You might find some new tricks and fun times with old powers that felt a bit stagnate, but it's not like a lot of these are going to be dramatically altered. Not like Dimension Shift, or how Mass Confusion can get loaded up with a few damage procs and suddenly becomes a small-burst AoE, or Ice Arrow is now a main-chain attack doing more DPS than half a Defender's normal attacks. There's just not as many surprise findings in Melee AT's compared to just "now it works better than before!"

Off the top of my head, these are probably the most relevant responses I can give:

Radiation Armor/Spines was the most pleasant validation of just being a proc-aoe-monster. It worked exactly as I'd expected, and it was beautiful
Titan Weapons was a numb experience of "yup, that did what I expected... literally to the second predicted its performance." /em rolleyes
Energy Melee was the only set that I said "wow" that actually really improved the set!
Super Strength is broken and is the second most powerful set in the game behind TW. All I did was prove it needs nerfed (as in: fixed). I don't particularly feel great about that.

Sovera · October 19, 2019

On 10/18/2019 at 1:05 AM, Sir Myshkin said:

Tank Testing: Update #5

General Comments

Well, isn’t that just the frustrating event of the day? I twitch-trigger-clicked a button on my mouse and cause the page to go backwards and wiped about two pages worth of stuff. Guess that’s what I get for typing everything up in the reply box, eh? Anyway, looks like we’re getting some TL;DR edition of what I wrote before. Maybe that’s a good thing? /em shrug

Amazing amount of testing, Myshkin, simply amazing! Sorry to hear about your twitch finger though. I quoted just to mention that I don't know which browser you are using but there are several addons that fix this problem. The old Lazarus, the more recent Form History Control and Textarea Cache (I have both, juuuuuust in case after a few fatal accidents like you had).

SmalltalkJava · October 19, 2019

Hmm some good info in this thread for sure. I will have to decide on what to make my tanker version of "Skunk Man". I have one of him for several AT's so far.

Spoiler

Karnaj · October 19, 2019

I'm really loving this set of conversation topics. I have read the Storm Summoning and "Offender" Proc Monster thread thoroughly. I can't say I understand all of the computations that go into this but I am getting a better grasps of the concepts at the very least. I don't have any late game heroes so I don't quite understand why some of the procs seem to be used more than others in certain groups (i.e. Ghost Window's Embrace but not much mention of Neuronic Shutdown that I've seen). Anyway, that all aside, let's get to the crux of my post.

I hope I haven't missed a breakdown of all the melee powersets, but I haven't seen ANY data on my favorite... Psi Melee. Please correct me if any of the following is incorrect, as I am new and as stated, limited in my understanding.

Psi Blade can load up to 5 damage procs. Given one of these is the taunt proc (Perfect Zinger) which I see no use of so far and don't get the 20% chance listed on Mid's Reborn as it doesn't fit the 3.5 PPM or 4.5 PPM formulae.

Psi Blade Sweep can load 5 damage procs.

Greater Psi Blade can load 9 choices of damage procs. This appears to be the best of the bunch.

And Mass Levitate can load 6.

I know my understanding of this is rudimentary but would someone please explain why this is getting passed over for sets like SS and Titan Weapons? Pairing PM with the right primary set seems good. Please help me understand why it appears over looked.

Bopper · October 19, 2019

3 hours ago, Karnaj said:

Given one of these is the taunt proc (Perfect Zinger) which I see no use of so far and don't get the 20% chance listed on Mid's Reborn as it doesn't fit the 3.5 PPM or 4.5 PPM formulae.

That's a big and I already notified the MR team. If you come across any others like that, let me know.

3 hours ago, Karnaj said:

I know my understanding of this is rudimentary but would someone please explain why this is getting passed over for sets like SS and Titan Weapons? Pairing PM with the right primary set seems good. Please help me understand why it appears over looked.

Just about all tanker attacks can incorporate 4-6 damage procs. I dont think psi was overlooked, just that it would not teach us anything we haven't learned already.

Sir Myshkin · October 20, 2019

9 hours ago, Karnaj said:

I know my understanding of this is rudimentary but would someone please explain why this is getting passed over for sets like SS and Titan Weapons? Pairing PM with the right primary set seems good. Please help me understand why it appears over looked.

The bigger aspect about validating Melee sets wasn't like it was with Defenders and Controllers. Blast sets, as an example, have far less proc potential (overall) comparatively than Melee does, and I had to go through and find the optimal choices. Same thing with Controllers, not all of them had the same variety, and there were a lot more unique aspects about those sets. As @Bopper pointed out, simply put, all Melee has a ton of proc options (and not just damage based ones).

Melee, on the other hand, is a glutton for procs in every single set. We also, thanks to a lot of previous testing, already have a pretty good idea how these are going to work, and there aren't really any "unique" powers or triggers among them that necessitated individual attention, but there were a couple of sets (SS and TW, actually) that had a unique mechanic that did something arbitrarily different that needed to be checked in accordance with how it interacted with procs. To be specific: Rage, and its crash (how do procs shift that set, and do they considerably offset that crash), then TW, and its Momentum mechanic, could a proc build be made without sacrificing what it takes to make that a power house set.

In general the bigger thing was finding secondaries that could supplement/support a proc build the most effectively, which is how I landed on SD, RA, IA, SR, WP, and BA. The secondary attack sets were never categorized and slimmed down like that, I only just picked from my build bucket and worked through it. I wasn't passing a specific set up for any one reason, although I did try and create a unique combination for each practical test, but I was only originally focused on six defense sets, and there are A LOT of attack sets for Tanks/Melee.

I'll also point out something that helps determine what's possible across the board because of its testing success: Being able to build the optimal ST attack chain with TW, and maintain a good portion of its proc potential means that every single melee set is capable of achieving its optimal chain, and be proc focused. As far as memory serves the TW attack chain is the most demanding from a recharge stand point because you have to narrow down a lot of attacks into a 3/s cooldown from a 10+/s base, which is difficult when you're trying to avoid putting physical enhancement in the power itself. The other thing is showed me (us) is that even in the event that I couldn't get the optimal chain, the procs in that state so wildly benefited the set that they compensate most of what I lost by not having it perfected.

Hopefully that helps put perspective on the larger picture.

9 hours ago, Karnaj said:

I don't have any late game heroes so I don't quite understand why some of the procs seem to be used more than others in certain groups (i.e. Ghost Window's Embrace but not much mention of Neuronic Shutdown that I've seen).

If you're lumping my posted builds together there, yeah, that's not something uniquely specific beyond "I just like the picture more." There are several of the +Dam procs in the Hold sets, and in the realm of how many pack into a single attack, it really ends up become dealer choice when they all have the same 3.5ppm base for the normal procs. The purple sets have a higher PPM value at 4.5, and those will get favored over a regular 3.5 proc because they have both a higher damage value, and a higher probability potential to fire (in a lot of cases we're capping out most of this stuff to its 90% anyway, but still, the fact remains).

Another reason worth looking at keeping a variable variety is in the damage type that each proc does. I wouldn't want to load up all on one damage type because if I run into a faction that has a high(er) resistance to that one, I'm going to be seriously hampering my impact entirely. If I choose to mix the selection up (Negative, Smashing, Lethal, Psionic), then I get more variance in total potential, maybe even hit a type their weak against, without gimping the entire line up of procs. Yes I could, in the case of some holds where there could be both Ghost Widow's and Neuro, put both, but I'm doubling down on the Psionic and there's enough cases in Incarnate content where I might see some significant pushback against that, and a few other factions that have some reasonable resistance to Psi damage. I'd rather one proc get cut in half than two, and with diversity, one of the others might just be the alt type the faction IS weak against!

It's all about balance.

Thanks for reading 🙂

Sinfinite · October 20, 2019

After following this thread for some time, I'm working on a Bio/Stone/Soul build. I can't help but feel I'm coming up short in the defensive department and would appreciate suggestions.

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.6
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Bio Armor
Secondary Power Set: Stone Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Hardened Carapace -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam(3), GldArm-3defTpProc(3), HO:Ribo(7)
Level 1: Stone Fist -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(7), PrfZng-Dam%(9), TchofDth-Dam%(9), Mk'Bit-Dam%(11), GldStr-%Dam(11)
Level 2: Inexhaustible -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Prv-Heal(15), EndMod-I(17)
Level 4: Environmental Modification -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(5), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(5), Rct-Def/Rchg(13), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Rct-ResDam%(15)
Level 6: Adaptation
Level 8: Ablative Carapace -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(A), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(19), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(19)
Level 10: Heavy Mallet -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), TchofDth-Dam%(23), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), Mk'Bit-Dam%(34), GldStr-%Dam(34), FrcFdb-Rechg%(34)
Level 12: Evolving Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(27), UnbGrd-Max HP%(27)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), HO:Ribo(17)
Level 18: DNA Siphon -- Prv-Heal/Rchg(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(21), EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(21)
Level 20: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 22: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), GssSynFr--Build%(25)
Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(25), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(31), RedFrt-EndRdx(31), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFrt-Def(40)
Level 26: Genetic Contamination -- Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Obl-%Dam(29), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(29), ScrDrv-Dam%(33), ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(33), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(42)
Level 28: Combat Jumping -- Ksm-ToHit+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 30: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 32: Parasitic Aura -- TchoftheN-Acc/Heal(A), TchoftheN-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(42), EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(50)
Level 35: Tremor -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(36), Obl-%Dam(36), Arm-Dam%(36), ScrDrv-Dam%(37), FrcFdb-Rechg%(37)
Level 38: Seismic Smash -- Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(39), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(39), GldStr-%Dam(39), Hct-Dam%(40), UnbCns-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Gloom -- Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Apc-Dmg(43), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Apc-Acc/Rchg(43), Apc-Dam%(46), GldJvl-Dam%(46)
Level 44: Dark Obliteration -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), CldSns-%Dam(45), PstBls-Dam%(45), JvlVll-Dam%(46), Ann-ResDeb%(50)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(48), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(48), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(42)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(23)
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany
Level 6: Defensive Adaptation
Level 6: Efficient Adaptation
Level 6: Offensive Adaptation
------------

Wravis · October 21, 2019

I don't know if this counts entirely because I still tried to maintain tankiness while still loading up on a lot of procs. But here is an attempt. Lemme know what you smarter-than-me people think.

Shield/Broad Sword/Fire

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.6
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Broad Sword
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ImpArm-ResPsi(48), ImpArm-ResDam(50)
Level 1: Hack -- SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(A), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(3), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(9), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(23)
Level 4: True Grit -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(5), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(5), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-ResDam(9)
Level 6: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Slice -- SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(17), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(19)
Level 12: Phalanx Fighting -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A)
Level 14: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(15), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(15)
Level 16: Fly -- WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx(A), WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng(46)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(21)
Level 20: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 24: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), Erd-%Dam(27), ScrDrv-Dam%(27), Obl-%Dam(29), ExpStr-Dam%(29), PrfZng-Dam%(31)
Level 28: Whirling Sword -- Arm-Dam%(A), Obl-%Dam(31), Erd-%Dam(31), ScrDrv-Dam%(34), TchofLadG-%Dam(36), ShlBrk-%Dam(36)
Level 30: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(36), Ags-Psi/Status(37), Ags-ResDam(37), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(37)
Level 32: Weave -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Rct-Def/Rchg(33), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(33), Rct-Def/EndRdx(34), Rct-Def(34)
Level 35: Disembowel -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), Mk'Bit-Dam%(39), Hct-Dam%(39), TchofDth-Dam%(39), GldStr-%Dam(40), PrfZng-Dam%(40)
Level 38: Head Splitter -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(40), FuroftheG-Acc/Dmg(42), Erd-%Dam(42), Erd-Dmg(42), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(43)
Level 41: Char -- Apc-Dam%(A), GldJvl-Dam%(43), UnbCns-Dam%(43), GldNet-Dam%(45), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(45), NrnSht-Dam%(45)
Level 44: Melt Armor -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), TchofLadG-%Dam(46), ShlBrk-%Dam(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Ann-ResDeb%(A), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Ann-Acc/Dmg(48), Ann-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(19), Mrc-Rcvry+(25)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(21), EndMod-I(25)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment
------------


| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
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Edited October 21, 2019 by Wravis

Sir Myshkin · October 23, 2019

On 10/20/2019 at 4:24 AM, Sinfinite said:

I can't help but feel I'm coming up short in the defensive department and would appreciate suggestions

Nah, you've got it pieced together pretty well. The area where you're falling short right now, that I didn't on Beta is the fact that Pineapple Server is carrying a beta test buff for Maneuvers on Tanks too, which doesn't (obviously) reflect in Mid's yet. You'll see another ~2% up which rounds out your F/C/E/N to 45%, and your resistances are in the 80's for S/L, so all your basis are pretty covered, especially with absorb stacking on all that.

On 10/21/2019 at 10:40 AM, Wravis said:

I still tried to maintain tankiness while still loading up on a lot of procs.

You went a bit over board on the proc side of the things. There's absolutely no accuracy in over half of your stuff, let alone no additional endurance reduction or damage enhancement. You want to balance the transition from damage to proc enhancement based on when the next damage enhancer is less value than a single proc adds. Typically you'll be looking at 3-4 procs maximum, and then rely on that last 2 slots to fill acc/dam/end in some fashion. Right now only 3 of your 9 abilities have enough accuracy to hit just a +3, barely, and everything else will struggle against even just a basic white minion. Pull back on your proc saturation a bit.

Wravis · October 23, 2019

11 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

You went a bit over board on the proc side of the things. There's absolutely no accuracy in over half of your stuff, let alone no additional endurance reduction or damage enhancement. You want to balance the transition from damage to proc enhancement based on when the next damage enhancer is less value than a single proc adds. Typically you'll be looking at 3-4 procs maximum, and then rely on that last 2 slots to fill acc/dam/end in some fashion. Right now only 3 of your 9 abilities have enough accuracy to hit just a +3, barely, and everything else will struggle against even just a basic white minion. Pull back on your proc saturation a bit.

What accuracy % should I am for? 🙂

Sir Myshkin · October 23, 2019

2 hours ago, Wravis said:

What accuracy % should I am for? 🙂

Sure thing. This article on the Paragon Wiki talks about To Hit and Accuracy, but the important thing is down at the bottom where there's a table that says "Players attacking Critters" with two columns. It shows you what your base modifier is against a certain level range. If you take that value you can plug it in to the settings on Mids, and then those values you see will be representative.

What you want to hit is 95% against whatever level you plan to combat against. For most the goal is 95% against +4, but incarnate level shifts skew that, so at the minimum you want 95% against +3's.

Other things you can add into a build to help your accuracy are things like the Kismet +6% IO, or Tactics, the Nerve Alpha, just to name a few things.

Wravis · October 24, 2019

23 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Sure thing. This article on the Paragon Wiki talks about To Hit and Accuracy, but the important thing is down at the bottom where there's a table that says "Players attacking Critters" with two columns. It shows you what your base modifier is against a certain level range. If you take that value you can plug it in to the settings on Mids, and then those values you see will be representative.

Maybe I'm blind, but I don't see where to do this in Mids. Help, friend!

Bopper · October 24, 2019

5 minutes ago, Wravis said:

Maybe I'm blind, but I don't see where to do this in Mids. Help, friend!

In configuration you can adjust your ToHit modifier. By default it is 75%, which is for +0 enemies. You can change it to what you want, so of it's +3 enemies, I think you want to change it to 38%. Then all your power's accuracy will change to reflect the new difficulty. If the accuracy is still 95+%, then you'll be happy.

Wravis · October 24, 2019

Updated it based on feedback.

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Broad Sword
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- Ksm-ToHit+(A)
Level 1: Hack -- SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(A), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(3), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(9), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(23), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(48), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 4: True Grit -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(5), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(5), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-ResDam(9)
Level 6: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Slice -- SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(17), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(19)
Level 12: Phalanx Fighting -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A)
Level 14: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(15), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(15)
Level 16: Fly -- WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(46)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(21), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(36), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(46)
Level 20: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 24: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- OvrFrc-Dam/KB(A), Erd-%Dam(27), ScrDrv-Dam%(27), Obl-%Dam(29), PrfZng-Dam%(29), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg(31)
Level 28: Whirling Sword -- Arm-Dam%(A), Obl-%Dam(31), Erd-%Dam(31), ScrDrv-Dam%(34), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(36), PrfZng-Dam%(48)
Level 30: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(36), UnbGrd-ResDam(37), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(37), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(37)
Level 32: Weave -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Rct-Def/Rchg(33), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(33), Rct-Def/EndRdx(34), Rct-Def(34)
Level 35: Disembowel -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dam%(39), Hct-Dam%(39), TchofDth-Dam%(39), PrfZng-Dam%(40), GldStr-%Dam(40)
Level 38: Head Splitter -- Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Arm-Dmg(40), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(42), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Arm-Acc/Rchg(42), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(43)
Level 41: Char -- Apc-Dam%(A), GldJvl-Dam%(43), UnbCns-Dam%(43), NrnSht-Dam%(45), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(45), GldJvl-Acc/Dmg(45)
Level 44: Tactics -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), GssSynFr--ToHit(46), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(50), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Grant Cover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-EndRdx(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(19), Mrc-Rcvry+(25)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(21), EndMod-I(25)
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Vigor Core Paragon
------------

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Sir Myshkin · October 25, 2019

9 hours ago, Wravis said:

Updated it based on feedback.

You're going in the right direction for sure. I tweaked a couple things to get you more balance in your defense, and more resistance. If I recall correctly your optimal ST chain is Hack > Disembowel > Hack > Headsplitter (with Char replacing Hack when it's up), which you have the recharge to run.

Some things I moved or added:

You'll want to get an Achilles Heel in there to help soften up your enemies, so I added that to Hack since it'll be the most commonly used fast attack.
Another slot to tactics so you can benefit from the 6-set bonus (+2.5% Melee/Ranged/AoE defense)
Actually slotted Deflection
Moved Armageddon to Shield Charge and used the sixth slot for FF+Rech proc. Every time you use that on a decent sized spawn, the proc should go off and give you a burst of +100% recharge, which instantly impacts Shield Charge and brings it down to a 21-22/s recharge from 27 when it goes off, meaning more Charges! Woo!
Moved the Might AT-O to Headsplitter to better balance end consumpetion, recharge, and damage in that attack, and used the void in Hack to load it up with Procs and amp up its damage potential.
Flipped one proc in Disembowel to a Hecatomb Damage IO because it was worth more in the power than the proc.
Balanced IO choices in Whirling Sword.
Shifted Maneuvers to Reactive Defense set for the resistance bonuses.
Shifted placement of Unique +Def IO's to Deflection, which in turn shifted LotG from Maneuvers to Phalanx in order to allow previous line change.
Added fifth slot to Battle Agility to get another 3.75% S/L resistance.

With Vigor and Tactics and the additional light Accuracy enhancement in your attacks, you hit 95-96% to +4 in everything (except Char, but it's close enough), so no major need for Kismet IO in there. If at any point you decide you want to switch/try a damage Alpha over Vigor, I'd suggest tossing the Kistmet into Hover in place of the HO since you're at the soft cap already without Hover, and then you'll still stay around the same percentile to +3 (what you'd face as a level-shifted Incarnate anyway).

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Hero Hero Designer 2.23
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Broad Sword
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- ShlWal-Def(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(15), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(15), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(36), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(46)
Level 1: Hack -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Mk'Bit-Dam%(3), GldStr-%Dam(9), TchofLadG-%Dam(11), AchHee-ResDeb%(11)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(23), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(48), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 4: True Grit -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(5), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(5), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(7), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(7), UnbGrd-ResDam(9)
Level 6: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Slice -- SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(17), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(19)
Level 12: Phalanx Fighting -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Hover -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A), HO:Cyto(25)
Level 16: Fly -- WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx(A)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(21), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Rct-Def/Rchg(37)
Level 20: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(23)
Level 24: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Arm-Dmg(27), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(29), Arm-Acc/Rchg(29), FrcFdb-Rechg%(31)
Level 28: Whirling Sword -- Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Obl-%Dam(31), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), ScrDrv-Dam%(34), Arm-Dam%(36), TchofLadG-%Dam(48)
Level 30: Tough -- HO:Ribo(A), HO:Ribo(37)
Level 32: Weave -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Rct-Def/Rchg(33), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(33), Rct-Def/EndRdx(34), Rct-Def(34)
Level 35: Disembowel -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg(39), Hct-Dam%(39), TchofDth-Dam%(39), PrfZng-Dam%(40), GldStr-%Dam(40)
Level 38: Head Splitter -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(40), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(43)
Level 41: Char -- Apc-Dam%(A), GldJvl-Dam%(43), UnbCns-Dam%(43), NrnSht-Dam%(45), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(45), GldJvl-Acc/Dmg(45)
Level 44: Tactics -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), GssSynFr--ToHit(46), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(46), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(50), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Grant Cover -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-EndRdx(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(19), Mrc-Rcvry+(25)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(21)
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Degenerative Radial Flawless Interface
Level 50: Vigor Core Paragon
------------


| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
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		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Edited October 25, 2019 by Sir Myshkin
a word

Wravis · October 27, 2019

On 10/24/2019 at 11:35 PM, Sir Myshkin said:

Another slot to tactics so you can benefit from the 6-set bonus (+2.5% Melee/Ranged/AoE defense)

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Just curious why this is necessary when without the 2.5% it'll already by over the 45% soft cap. I trust you, I'd just like to know the reason so I can figure for it in the future.

Sir Myshkin · October 27, 2019

1 hour ago, Wravis said:

Just curious why this is necessary when without the 2.5% it'll already by over the 45% soft cap. I trust you, I'd just like to know the reason so I can figure for it in the future.

Amongst the changes I made, I broke part of that balance you had before. This was really one of those "break it down to build it up stronger" kind of things. If you chase 2.5% Melee, Ranged, and AoE in three other places, it doesn't make sense compared to just filling one single slot that completes that same tri-fecta effect. Since you were already pouring slots into that ability anyway, it just makes sense to take advantage of that one slot to achieve that balance. It's tantamount to being the same equivalency (at that point) as the Steadfast or Gladiator +3%.

Biggest past is simplifying where and how you get to 45%, first, and then seeing what it would take to go over that value by a few points. As a Defense based character, you'll run into enemy groups that do something called Defense Debuffs. Now, you have some resistance to these debuffs, but even at a capped value (like Super Reflexes can achieve), you still get hit with something, and even in the smallest portion we're talking 0.5-1.5% ranges. If you were only sitting at 45.#%, that one (even resisted) debuff is suddenly dropping you down below 45%, and every point you drop below, you're quickly increasing the amount you could be potentially hit. When that happens we call it Cascading Failure (one debuff turns into two, your defense starts to tank, you start getting hit more, more debuffs stack, and bam, you eat dirt).

To combat debuffs, you go a couple points above 45% to stabilize the threat of one, maybe two that you may get to stay above 45% until the effect wears off.

In that modified build I posted, technically Ranged and AoE were sitting at 45.9%, but that was without Hover running, so you have an instant buffer by toggling that on (if you aren't already using it), to pad up quickly to 48% and avoid failure. Shield Defense is a bit unique in that it is realistically a Defense based set, but it can get a pretty solid resistance foundation that blurs the line on where it stands. For me personally I try and hit 47-48% on defense based characters so they can have that wiggle room, and if possible maybe even try and find a way to get them to 59% (the Incarnate softcap) if possible (not so much on Shield). For characters that are resist based that I'm padding with defense, then it doesn't really matter because they don't have any inherent DDR and if they get hit with a debuff that bonus defense is going to sink like the Titanic.

siran · October 29, 2019

I've been reading this thread and it's companions for controllers/defenders/corruptors, with a lot of interest. I tried to apply it to my own builds, and while I've transformed a couple of characters (my elec/ controller was meh before and now a blast, and my Illusion/Storm is so much fun it's untrue) I'm not sure how to apply it to my tanker.

I have a character that rather surprised me at how much I like playing her. I've played her from 1 through 50 without a DFB or AE, although I did a single DiB when I was about level 40. I'm going badge collecting, enjoy task forces and want to be able to main tank most of the games content (and keep other people from dying) I don't mind if there is a specific thing or opponent I can't do or are weak against: all characters need kryptonite! While not as tough as my stoner, she's good enough for almost all play I've tried so far and far more mobile.

I often duo with a friend, and if we are going against hard content (lots of psi for example) we pick a suitable character to plug that hold (A fortunata is remarkably good at fixing most build issues). I have made a number of mistakes with the build (for example I five slotted Aegis, and put the unique in a different power) that's because I just picked slots in powers I liked, and didn't really plan a lot. My goals were pretty simple:

90% res in most things
meltdown plugging my fire/psi hole
I wanted one attack of defensive sweep to get me to melee soft cap.
Lots of SMASH

I tried /SS and it's OK at high level, but I often do low level TFs, so I wanted something fun at all levels, hence TW

The result is nice. I have gone into comic con S/L at +4/x8 just to see if she could cope (following the radiation/spines example), and while (very) slow, she's very survivable. I haven't tried a pylon yet. Not sure why... I think I'll try tonight.

The thing I like most is the infinite energy. It's like playing a toon powered by their personal nuclear reactor. I am usually running at around 3.98 end/sec. With particle shielding it is 4.86, , and with meltdown on it is 5.38) Panacea and Performance Shifter are on top of this. Even TW stuggles to make a dent on this endless energy. After playing a TW/SR srapper and feeling ashmatic: needing to bend a knee after every fight, it felt truely super to come out of a hard fight on full hps and end. For a long time I was running focussed accuracy without any end reduction just because I could I love meltdown: a second haste, a damage buff, caps fire and nearly psychic and provides all the energy you could need... as well as dealing with any nasty DR debuffs, and it feels like it is up about half the time. The crash is very weak, hardly noticable usually.

I've decided to do a respec and fix the flaws (the aegis mess rankles) and I thought I should ask for some advice. I'm obviously going to buy some LOTG for the defences (they are just expensive and until now I've been going with much cheaper sets, gradually upgrading). I could probably afford a few purples/ATOs, but am not an influence billionaire.

I'd like very much to take advantage of the goodness in this thread, but I'm not at all sure how to get the procs into the build without damaging the survivability. Pretty obviously the two heals should have six slots and have lots of procs in them. I don't really know what to do with the toggle power: I use it at the moment just to taunt. Perhaps the other things it does are good, but I can't tell. Would procs in it be valuable?

http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/download.php?uc=1466&c=687&a=1374&f=HEX&dc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

Edited October 29, 2019 by siran

Pylon Test Run Submission	Proc Monsters (Controller Edition)	Proc Monsters (Defender Edition)
Pylon Test Run Results	Proc Monsters (Tanker Edition)	"Mad King Special"
"Ceterum autem censeo	Iram esse delendam"	Mad King Special - Force Edition (NEW!)

Pylon Test Run Submission	Proc Monsters (Controller Edition)	Proc Monsters (Defender Edition)
Pylon Test Run Results	Proc Monsters (Tanker Edition)	"Mad King Special"
"Ceterum autem censeo	Iram esse delendam"	Mad King Special - Force Edition (NEW!)

Pylon Test Run Submission	Proc Monsters (Controller Edition)	Proc Monsters (Defender Edition)
Pylon Test Run Results	Proc Monsters (Tanker Edition)	"Mad King Special"
"Ceterum autem censeo	Iram esse delendam"	Mad King Special - Force Edition (NEW!)

Pylon Test Run Submission	Proc Monsters (Controller Edition)	Proc Monsters (Defender Edition)
Pylon Test Run Results	Proc Monsters (Tanker Edition)	"Mad King Special"
"Ceterum autem censeo	Iram esse delendam"	Mad King Special - Force Edition (NEW!)

Pylon Test Run Submission	Proc Monsters (Controller Edition)	Proc Monsters (Defender Edition)
Pylon Test Run Results	Proc Monsters (Tanker Edition)	"Mad King Special"
"Ceterum autem censeo	Iram esse delendam"	Mad King Special - Force Edition (NEW!)

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