Pro Tip: Don't Engage in Real World Trading

[Spotlore]

48 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

That's quite something.

 

Do you know what would be a real shame?

 

If tons of people clicked that paid ad. (cough)

 

A real shame indeed.

 

(edit: gotta turn your adblock off!)

Afraid to click anything, I don't get it.  

[Jimmy]

It's a paid ad. It costs them money every time someone clicks on it 🙂

[Cipher]

Another 7 accounts have been permanently banned.. Wonder how many times it'll take for them to give up? 😛

 

 

[mrzapp]

1 hour ago, Cipher said:

Another 7 accounts have been permanently banned.. Wonder how many times it'll take for them to give up? 😛

 

 

Probably as long as they have email accounts and a VPN.

[ChocolateMercenary]

This are likely East Asian inmates being forced to grind so guards can get side money.

[Myrmidon]

5 hours ago, jubakumbi said:

I agree the ecosystem that usually accompanies RWT for MMOs is a bad thing.

 

However, IMO, that does not make the idea of purchasing content pointless or in any other way logically or morally wrong.

It simply means that there are different ways to fund new content.

I do, will, and would HAPPILY give my money to anyone producing costumes, content, etc. for a game I like, they have bills to pay.

I bought everything from CoH back in the day just for this reason.

I throw money at good games all the time, happy to do so.

 

Funding a game and RMT are two separate issues, even if they touch on each other.

 

I switched to Store-bought Enhancements  (SBOs, what we call “Attuned” now) the moment that they were available in the store and never looked back. Drops were just giveaways until Sunset.

[boggo2300]

11 hours ago, jubakumbi said:

IMO, mutually exclusive is a bit extreme but I see your point.

To me, it just means some level of restrictions to insure an equal playing field have to be added.

ANYONE trying to re-impose restrictions on the finally awesome base building

 

[boggo2300]

3 hours ago, Jimmy said:

That's quite something.

 

Do you know what would be a real shame?

 

If tons of people clicked that paid ad. (cough)

 

A real shame indeed.

 

(edit: gotta turn your adblock off!)

Thats red-side speak!! 

 

(I've just gone a clicking...)

[MetaVileTerror]

What shocks me, most of all, in all of this . . . is that:
Cipher didn't win the Gold for Reputation on the 18th!

[Likara]

Ok, I'm on board for stopping RWT, but the "no chance for appeal" raises SO MANY red flags. Sorry, but whatever system you have in place, you're still human, and humans make mistakes. Having a "no appeal" policy for RWT sellers means eventually you're gonna ban someone innocent, and that someone is going to permanently lose their account with no possible recourse, something I'm WHOLLY opposed to, and always will be.

[EmperorSteele]

Is there a way to complain to their vendor (Shopify) so they don't get paid? Or is that the kind of website that would be complicit in this sort of thing?

 

Also, Ritikesh: Maybe they're just saying that to sound tough. I'm pretty sure they'd give the benefit of the doubt to a forum user with posts and karma and multiple low level alts and all that. There is probably a VERY clear distinction between how RMT/RWT guys operate, and how, well, actual players operate. Even those who don't use the forums or have a lot of alts.

That said... if these people reach the point where they're hacking accounts, then there does need to be an appeal process.

Edited September 21, 2019 by EmperorSteele
Added to reply to Rit

[Jimmy]

Shopify technically aren’t the vendor. It’s not like eBay where they are acting as a legal intermediary, with Shopify all they are doing is providing the software and hosting.

 

That’s not to say they won’t intervene, but I find it highly unlikely.

[synfoola]

I didn't even know this was happening here. 😮 

[GM Capocollo]

13 hours ago, Ritikesh said:

Ok, I'm on board for stopping RWT, but the "no chance for appeal" raises SO MANY red flags. Sorry, but whatever system you have in place, you're still human, and humans make mistakes. Having a "no appeal" policy for RWT sellers means eventually you're gonna ban someone innocent, and that someone is going to permanently lose their account with no possible recourse, something I'm WHOLLY opposed to, and always will be.

The no-appeal bans that are being handed out aren't being handed out lightly.  They are not applied automatically or based on mere suspicion.

 

To not make it easier for potential RWT/RMT accounts to disguise their activity, I don't want to go into the exact clues we're monitoring for, but we're confident in saying that it would be impossible for a typical player engaging in typical play to get near any of the thresholds for suspicious behavior, much less cross multiple ones and get banned for it.

[LQT]

On 9/19/2019 at 12:18 PM, Clave Dark 5 said:

Ah, this is bringing back memories... back when I first started playing, say around issue 6? for the first couple of years, some gold seller was always standing around the black market on Cap.  I always took pleasure in reporting them and even sometimes went over to grief them in person visually or by standing there and telling them I'd reported them.

 

What?!  I was a villain, after all.

At least issue 13. Auction House didn't exist in CoX before then.

[starro]

I hope the Homecoming Team can also find the people responsible for all the Ray-Ban sunglasses spam I get on Facebook.  if you could possibly punch those people I would appreciate it.

 

 

[Likara]

12 hours ago, EmperorSteele said:

Is there a way to complain to their vendor (Shopify) so they don't get paid? Or is that the kind of website that would be complicit in this sort of thing?

 

Also, Ritikesh: Maybe they're just saying that to sound tough. I'm pretty sure they'd give the benefit of the doubt to a forum user with posts and karma and multiple low level alts and all that. There is probably a VERY clear distinction between how RMT/RWT guys operate, and how, well, actual players operate. Even those who don't use the forums or have a lot of alts.

That said... if these people reach the point where they're hacking accounts, then there does need to be an appeal process.

The last part is ANOTHER reason no-appeal bans should NOT be a thing. Sorry, I simply DO NOT care how good you think your process is, at all, or how unlikely you believe normal play could get to the metrics you're looking for. I've seen too many games with "no-appeal" bans that have screwed over legitimate players who aren't breaking the rules, to EVER trust them.

[ivanhedgehog]

On 9/18/2019 at 6:44 PM, Puma said:

I do have one concern about this:

 

When I first got here friends gave me a good chunk of influence to get going. Ive offered to do the same for others. Heck, I even talked to someone about starting a channel specifically so farmers like myself could help new players get their first inf building account going strong called "Kickstarter" channel, but decided I didnt have time to devote to it right now.  I just want to make sure your detection method is more complex than "party x gave party Y a bunch of money in a trade for nothing" so good will stuff like that doesn't get scooped up.  I assume it includes looking at chat logs, etc.  If not, it should. 

 

Just my 2 cents. 

I agree, I hope there is more than just someone giving some one else some inf

[ivanhedgehog]

On 9/19/2019 at 6:32 AM, quixoteprog said:

I can understand how someone would be willing to sell inf. or some in game item for real money. What's not to like about getting paid for doing something you find fun, like playing a game.

 

What I DON'T understand is how someone would be willing to PAY for such stuff. If you don't enjoy the game enough to get the item through playing the game then, play another game.

I have known someone playing wow that bought gold all the time. He was a RW lawyer and dint want to spend time grinding for gold. His time was worth a LOT more than what he spent with gold sellers. He had a separate credit  card he used just for this purpose and never had a problem. He felt that it didnt effect the economy of the game because he was transferring already existing gold to himself from another character. it didnt creat gold out of nothing. right or wrong, that was his logic.

[GM Capocollo]

10 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

I agree, I hope there is more than just someone giving some one else some inf

There absolutely is. 

 

Everyone on the Homecoming Team is a player themselves, too, and we understand how players play the game.  Giving gifts to other players is perfectly normal, and definitely not the behavior that we're scrutinizing.

[ivanhedgehog]

39 minutes ago, GM Capocollo said:

There absolutely is. 

 

Everyone on the Homecoming Team is a player themselves, too, and we understand how players play the game.  Giving gifts to other players is perfectly normal, and definitely not the behavior that we're scrutinizing.

then I am a happy camper

[Clave Dark 5]

7 hours ago, LQT said:

At least issue 13. Auction House didn't exist in CoX before then.

Fair point.  It probably would have been shortly after it was introduced then.

[Skyhawke]

[Ananke]

On 9/18/2019 at 6:44 PM, Puma said:

I do have one concern about this:

 

When I first got here friends gave me a good chunk of influence to get going. Ive offered to do the same for others. Heck, I even talked to someone about starting a channel specifically so farmers like myself could help new players get their first inf building account going strong called "Kickstarter" channel, but decided I didnt have time to devote to it right now.  I just want to make sure your detection method is more complex than "party x gave party Y a bunch of money in a trade for nothing" so good will stuff like that doesn't get scooped up.  I assume it includes looking at chat logs, etc.  If not, it should. 

 

Just my 2 cents. 

 

There seems to be way more to it than that, which I can say because I've dished out 2-3bil to friends and have never had an issue. Thing is that we have actual, legitimate accounts: we have conversations, people on our friends list, SGs, etc. If an account NEVER interacts with others in any real way and is doing 10 hour farming sessions then giving piles of money to someone they've never interacted with, it's fairly easy to red flag.

[Tahliah]

On 9/18/2019 at 6:44 PM, Puma said:

I do have one concern about this:

 

When I first got here friends gave me a good chunk of influence to get going. Ive offered to do the same for others. Heck, I even talked to someone about starting a channel specifically so farmers like myself could help new players get their first inf building account going strong called "Kickstarter" channel, but decided I didnt have time to devote to it right now.  I just want to make sure your detection method is more complex than "party x gave party Y a bunch of money in a trade for nothing" so good will stuff like that doesn't get scooped up.  I assume it includes looking at chat logs, etc.  If not, it should. 

 

Just my 2 cents. 

A lot of us give inf to new players for nothing, and that is not the problem.  TPTB can (presumably) see in our chats that we are responding to someone in Help who is freaked out that they can't afford to buy enh for their toons, for example, and can see us send tells saying we're happy to help out and asking where they are so we can go give them a little starter boost of inf. 

 

This has been going on since forever on COH/X, and anyone starting out who, like myself, once received a welcome few million from a kind stranger is happy to pay it forward when the opportunity arises.  That's not real world trading; that's just being a good City-zen.  :P