Game seems way to easy.

[subbacultchas]

4 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

That's sounds interesting!

Trying to finsih DOS2 before I buy Pathfinder though!

That's a good game, a really good game. I've beaten it solo a few times, duo and trio more than a few times, and it never quite gets old. Give it six months, then we get back together and play it again with some new mods. I'm really glad they went with Larian Studios for the new Baldur's Gate, I think with DOS2 they've proven what they can accomplish.

[The_Cheeseman]

I've never been a fan of hardcore/permadeath/ironman modes in MMOs. These games are intentionally designed to kill you as a method feedback, it's how you learn what strategies/tactics work well, and which don't. All I see in hardcore modes is people being severely risk averse, never attempting anything really challenging or dangerous, and just grinding trivial challenges to progress. That's not "harder" it's just takes longer and is more stressful. I fail to see the benefit.

[pattycake]

3 hours ago, The_Cheeseman said:

I've never been a fan of hardcore/permadeath/ironman modes in MMOs. These games are intentionally designed to kill you as a method feedback, it's how you learn what strategies/tactics work well, and which don't. All I see in hardcore modes is people being severely risk averse, never attempting anything really challenging or dangerous, and just grinding trivial challenges to progress. That's not "harder" it's just takes longer and is more stressful. I fail to see the benefit.

While I do agree with some of those points, permadeath can lead players to leave out risk and go for safety, but you couldn't be more wrong at the same time. Let me explain, in the eyes of a die-hard ironman enthusiast.

 

There's a saying in engineering. Any idiot can build a sturdy bridge, but it takes an engineer to build a bridge that barely stands.

The introduction of a deathless mechanic creates special conditions which promote different ways of playing. Its not just about not taking risks, its a bunch of others. example

 

You could go level from 1-50 safely and without risk, but how fast can you do it? What will you do to make it happen to cut a few more hours, would you risk executing a high-risk to shed off 6 hours in a particular zone?

 

The hardcore community, speed-runners, or even casual power leveling alts; we all want to complete things efficiently, but most importantly we want to be proud what we do. We like sharing memories, we love to hate to fall, but we also like other people to know what we do. (its not an ego-personality conflict- its more like.. Appreciation, like the feeling I had when I painted something really cool and my parents compliment on it even though its not really that great, its just nice to hear from people.)

 

But yes, I am that risk averse, I always buff my defenses before damage cause I am clumsy and doNUT have the required skills to create glass-cannons that require the need to be pitch perfect in execution.

 

[Haijinx]

On 9/25/2019 at 10:04 PM, DR_Mechano said:

 

 

The challenges are there, you just need to take them. For example classic Iron Man challenge runs. You die, you lose. Delete the character and start over

I have a vet level 15 stalker that has never died.  

 

A couple close calls in +4 missions and the Apex blue glowie stuff. But so far, so good.

 

I don't think I'd delete though, that's pretty rough, lol

[The_Cheeseman]

1 hour ago, ToZ said:

While I do agree with some of those points, permadeath can lead players to leave out risk and go for safety, but you couldn't be more wrong at the same time. Let me explain, in the eyes of a die-hard ironman enthusiast.

 

There's a saying in engineering. Any idiot can build a sturdy bridge, but it takes an engineer to build a bridge that barely stands.

The introduction of a deathless mechanic creates special conditions which promote different ways of playing. Its not just about not taking risks, its a bunch of others. example

 

You could go level from 1-50 safely and without risk, but how fast can you do it? What will you do to make it happen to cut a few more hours, would you risk executing a high-risk to shed off 6 hours in a particular zone?

 

The hardcore community, speed-runners, or even casual power leveling alts; we all want to complete things efficiently, but most importantly we want to be proud what we do. We like sharing memories, we love to hate to fall, but we also like other people to know what we do. (its not an ego-personality conflict- its more like.. Appreciation, like the feeling I had when I painted something really cool and my parents compliment on it even though its not really that great, its just nice to hear from people.)

 

But yes, I am that risk averse, I always buff my defenses before damage cause I am clumsy and doNUT have the required skills to create glass-cannons that require the need to be pitch perfect in execution.

 

Fair points. I've never been a competitive person, so I suppose it's just not a playstyle I can appreciate.

[Solarverse]

On 9/24/2019 at 6:03 PM, Hops said:

Do I just keep teaming with random Uber teams or is the game 10x easier then before? I love the game I just remember it being a little bit more challenging then what it is now

Problem I am seeing, is a good amount (seems like all of them) are running their missions/Task Forces and anything else at +0. If you even increase your mission to +1, somebody always has something to say about it, especially in a Task Force. Seems a lot of level 50's have power leveled to 50, now they are back tracking to run all the Task Forces and "don't want to spend all day running it."

 

Meanwhile, people like myself use Task Forces to not only level, but obtain the Task Force Commander by time I am level 40 or less. The struggle is real. I don't think the game has changed, I think the players have.

[boggo2300]

3 hours ago, Solarverse said:

Problem I am seeing, is a good amount (seems like all of them) are running their missions/Task Forces and anything else at +0. If you even increase your mission to +1, somebody always has something to say about it, especially in a Task Force. Seems a lot of level 50's have power leveled to 50, now they are back tracking to run all the Task Forces and "don't want to spend all day running it."

 

Meanwhile, people like myself use Task Forces to not only level, but obtain the Task Force Commander by time I am level 40 or less. The struggle is real. I don't think the game has changed, I think the players have.

Sadly I think this is accurate 😞

[Dahkness]

10 minutes ago, boggo2300 said:

Sadly I think this is accurate 😞

This is true. Tried setting a TF to +2 and two instantly replied “are really trying to use this for leveling”. And that swayed everyone to agree.

[Ruin Mage]

The mentality has changed since 2004 or even 2012.

The game isn't "too easy", its just that players haven't played the game and forgot/don't know that Paragon Studios didn't make the game to be difficult.

IOs made sure of that if anything.

[ZeeHero]

On 9/25/2019 at 10:15 AM, jubakumbi said:

Totally agree.

IMO, what these posts really boil down to is 'I want more game'. 🙂

I want more game as well.

 

Somehow, IMO, MMOs and other modern games have all attracted a large group of players that don't want to make thier own fun, they want to be fed everything.

More like watching a TV show than playing a game, IME.

While I see nothing 'wrong' with that, I like to make my own fun and my own stories and challenges, not be fed much of anything.

 

IMO, virtually any truly new CoH player that is a 'modern gamer' will not find the game to be much fun after they 'beat it' once.

Those of us that love the creative aspect just keep making new characters and new stories.

 

This comes back to the main thing I have about all the games I like - why turn them into something thery are not?

Why not play this game for what it is and play other for what they are, without making CoH Dark Souls X...

For gameplay and story I have Final Fantasy 14, excellent for those things. for character building and fooling with real builds and power choices COH is a clear winner.

[The_Cheeseman]

Personally, if my dom joins an ITF and it's not on +4, I will quit. Not worth my time if they're just going to fall over when I glance at them. I didn't spend millions of inf on IOs just to fight pinatas.

[Ankhammon]

On 9/26/2019 at 3:24 AM, Megajoule said:

Another suggestion for anyone who wants a harder game:

Try soloing your way through goldside (Praetoria).  Especially as a support class.

Enjoy the tricked-out enemies, the constant ambushes (with waves spaced maybe 30 seconds apart) that know exactly where you are, etc etc.

Made it with a TA/Sonic Defender. I thought it was fun.

 

I'd say try with a petless MM. Knew someone who made it to 50 back in the day that way. No Sorcery, no build up dynamic in fighting.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Maybe you should set your missions on +4/x8 earlier?

 

[Lost Ninja]

I would quite like vanilla style server where all the P2W (which is fundamentally mostly vet rewards) remained mostly available minus the XP bonuses. But all the other easy mode stuff were removed, you have to level up and acquire costume parts just as you had to on live (where it is possible to do so), so capes are a mission as are auras. I think access to HEATs had already been removed from needing a fifty, but I'd return that. And the Incarnate stuff would be back to being difficult to work through. I doubt though that many others would be that interested and it'd be too easy (currently) to PL to 50+ on a "normal" server and transfer across.

[Lost Ninja]

On 9/28/2019 at 2:03 AM, Ankhammon said:

Made it with a TA/Sonic Defender. I thought it was fun.

 

I'd say try with a petless MM. Knew someone who made it to 50 back in the day that way. No Sorcery, no build up dynamic in fighting.

I seem to recall someone doing a 1-50 without levelling up at all (he never visited a trainer), so used vet reward powers and brawl to get there...

[EmmySky]

On 9/25/2019 at 9:59 PM, MetaVileTerror said:

*starts to vibrate through walls*
GAH!  The missing O in "too" of the thread subject line is driving me insane!

 At least they didn't use the number 2.

[Mansome]

Yes the game has been wussified over the years but this was after a huge drop in power everyone experienced with issues 5 and 6. From there the power levels keep creeping up to what they were in some cases before that time with the help of inventions. I feel that there is nothing wrong with this because we are supposed to be super hero/villains after all. Not being super just means we are slightly more than average.

 

Overall the entry level to get to that level is pretty much gone such that with a smaller amount of effort even a casual player can get fully IOed out even with purples. Again nothing wrong with that because this game thrives off of making alts of various power combinations. Making it easier to gear alts means people are more likely to make more alts and keep playing. I have 5 characters I am focusing on right now. I have created 37 characters since starting a few weeks ago. 4 of those are level 50, 2 of those are fully IOed out.

[Greycat]

I've generally been in the minority of power changes. I *liked* the crashing nukes and T9s. Permadom requiring a team. Full strength quantums, voids and cysts. Configurations that made you think "Is this situation worth using this power and risking the crash now, or do I save it?" As opposed to perma-this-that-the other. I remember the ITF being a challenge instead of a 10 minute speed run. Heck, I remember teams needing and failing respecs 🙂

 

But, well. Game's changed. It's mostly a character idea and RP area for me now... and I'm fine with that.

[ZeeHero]

The game would be hell to play today if it went back to old times. back then MMOs were all crappy and no one knew better so they were able to have fun. but now games have become better than that and if theyre gonna be hard they have to also be quality gameplay COH isnt ever going to deliver on that part.

[gameboy1234]

1 hour ago, Lost Ninja said:

I would quite like vanilla style server where all the P2W (which is fundamentally mostly vet rewards) remained mostly available minus the XP bonuses.

If it were up to me -- and if I had all the resourced I needed -- I'd remove nearly all of the P2W stuff, and then put it back in as quest rewards, probably with just the basic jet pack left in 'cause those are so necessary. 

 

I'd also change powers though, so that you get your first three primary and first two secondary powers right at first level.  That way you have an attack chain at level one and the temp powers are unneeded.  This would also mean adding a couple more powers at the top end too.

 

I'd also rejigger power pools.  Fighting pool, for example, I'd beef up and then only make it available to squishies.  Then it becomes like a hybrid pool instead of a pool that anyone can take.  If you take it you can fill in your AT drawbacks with it and be less squishy.  Or you could not take it and concentrate on your primary and secondary, and be more powerful but a glass cannon.

 

Stuff like that.  After I win the lotto.

 

[ZeeHero]

1 hour ago, Mansome said:

Yes the game has been wussified over the years but this was after a huge drop in power everyone experienced with issues 5 and 6. From there the power levels keep creeping up to what they were in some cases before that time with the help of inventions. I feel that there is nothing wrong with this because we are supposed to be super hero/villains after all. Not being super just means we are slightly more than average.

 

Overall the entry level to get to that level is pretty much gone such that with a smaller amount of effort even a casual player can get fully IOed out even with purples. Again nothing wrong with that because this game thrives off of making alts of various power combinations. Making it easier to gear alts means people are more likely to make more alts and keep playing. I have 5 characters I am focusing on right now. I have created 37 characters since starting a few weeks ago. 4 of those are level 50, 2 of those are fully IOed out.

Yeah we feel like the super heroes the story makes us out to be at lvl50+3 now, FINALLY after all this time. Why would we want to take that away? I know I dont play to feel like a super zero. Part of why I quit CO entirely were the chains of senseless nerfs to literally everything (except bestial cuz you know who plays it)

[EmmySky]

Someone mentioned adding a +5 and someone else went on about how hard that would be.  I code a few languages but I have never looked at this game code, dont even know what language its in, so I have no idea about the difficulty of implementing any of anyones ideas.

 

BUT

 

How possible might it be, instead of the notoriety option that says solo bosses yes or no that was enemy rank with radio buttons for minion, LT, boss, maybe even EB and AV.  In the AE they can make custom EB and AV so it doesn't just have to rely on existing game enemies.  You could choose multiple ranks to fight or just one.  Squishy or need easy mode...all minions.  Feeling powerful..how about every spawn is all AVs.  Again I dont know the difficulty coding something like this especially into the spaghetti code we have.  Just wanted some thoughts on it.

[Mansome]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

I've generally been in the minority of power changes. I *liked* the crashing nukes and T9s. Permadom requiring a team. Full strength quantums, voids and cysts. Configurations that made you think "Is this situation worth using this power and risking the crash now, or do I save it?" As opposed to perma-this-that-the other. I remember the ITF being a challenge instead of a 10 minute speed run. Heck, I remember teams needing and failing respecs 🙂

 

But, well. Game's changed. It's mostly a character idea and RP area for me now... and I'm fine with that.

Some the wussification was needed in order to make teaming better. Quantums should never have been in the game to start with. Khelds were and still are way too weak for something to be called epic. The whole cyst thing was just flat out wrong. Causing teams to wipe repeatedly over one damn cysts. What made matters worse is that the enemies that were specific to khelds could still smell the kheldian funk on the team members even after they got kicked from the team for the cysts team wipe. You literally had to log everyone off and back on again to get rid of the smell so the enemies would stop showing up later.

 

The perma dom thing I still think they needed to revisit that. The investment to make them on par with controllers is too great in my opinion. Its not like they kill stuff that much faster than a controller does.

 

I did enjoy the crashing nukes because they did more damage. If we could have an option to nuke at full force with the penalty of the crash but make the target cap much higher like 32 targets. They would have to increase the herding cap for tanks for this to work well.

 

What I would like is for them to do away with speed running but not turn everything into a kill all as that gets ridiculous with some of the maps and missions. Maybe give bonus merits for killing 95% of the map or something. These days you literally have to announce this is not a speed run before doing the TF just to keep folks from trying to speed run it when you want the xp or threads for the kills.

[ivanhedgehog]

On 9/24/2019 at 5:03 PM, Hops said:

Do I just keep teaming with random Uber teams or is the game 10x easier then before? I love the game I just remember it being a little bit more challenging then what it is now

level as a solo empath. that should do it for ya.

[The_Cheeseman]

No, don't revisit "the perma-dom thing". I enjoy my Dominator being an unkillable god of destruction, and it's well worth the heavy investment. Keep the devs' eyes off Dominators entirely, they're fine. Controllers need way more help at end game.