Why so many chaotic Controllers?

[Razia]

I did not know that the right way of "trolling" like you call it, is dependent if there is a tank on the Team. I run my Controller all the same way, it usually doesn't matter what other ATs are in the Team.

[Doc Ranger]

I find that much of the team aspect of the game is going away because it is becoming so much easier to build for indestructibility. 
 

That and the fact a lot of lower level guys will join 54 lvl missions (not the simple radio stuff) and then try to nuke/pull/hold/tank mobs they have no business doing to zero effect. 
 

If I have an aoe assist power I just position myself to do the most good. I don’t stop to tell anyone anything. I just cast my stuff as we roll along. I doubt anyone knows why they aren’t dying/getting hit or whatever the buff/debuff is accomplishing but I’m not stopping to tell everyone either. 
 

Although one time recently I was on my Dk/Nature controller and the outlying blasters/defenders/controllers kept going in the red and I decided to mention that if you stand in the mushroom circle then you will stay healed. It fell largely on deaf ears.

 

But a couple of days ago I was playing on a team who had a Nature defender and I threw a few comments out to everyone letting them know how nice it was to stand in the mushroom circle etc. He appreciated the comment. I indirectly let the team know some info they might not have known.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by Ice_Warden

[Leogunner]

On 1/5/2020 at 12:25 PM, plainguy said:

Several things I am guilty of.

 

1. No longer playing the game from 1 to 50 ( or 20 to 50 because of DFB )
   • I now PL my toons to 50, I started out with just doing odd Petless mastermind builds I wanted to play around with. But now its every toon. 
   • I have about 20+ level 50 toons all defense capped in one way shape or form and all fully IO'ed out. 
   • PL to 50 is about 20 Comic Con fire missions. I make about 100 million and a bit more between both toons.  I then transfer over other cash, Merits and converters to the new toon from my other level 50 toons I am playing.
2. The game is easy and if the highest setting is 4/8 and I am at a minimum soloing 3/8. Then 7 other players are just extra DPS to move it along faster. You do not need 8 players for anything any more. I did an ITF where several where NOT 50+ and some did not understand defense cap game mechanics.  I eventually told them after they complained of the difficulty level, Just don't attack first.. Let the players who are IOed out and defense capped attack first and follow along. Enjoy the ride, the XP and the loot.  I wasn't complaining that one or two kept dying.
3. Follow up on point #2, having 4 defense capped IOed players you could probably split into 2 teams and clear out ITF for example. 
4. I have zero issue if anyone wants to run ahead and clear out mobs, but I do have a problem or think is foolish when a player THINKS they can do it and then realize they can't and then do it repeatedly. 

 

To my demise I have bored/burnt myself out right now of playing and I am currently playing Fallout 4 on Horizon MOD for a challenge again.   

 

Sounds like you could just play on the beta servers and just use the slash commands for instant 50, max inf and all IOs can be bought with inf from vendors.

[Doc Ranger]

I had a lot of fun the other day starting my Tina arc at 42. I sent a LFG and only invited 3-4 people instead of a full team. Ran the missions at +3/+8 and it was challenging and fun. With fewer people you know who is doing what and how each person is contributing. Instead of 8 man teams steamrolling and most support toons having no idea if they are doing any good. 
 

Think I might start playing like that more often.

 

Would love to play on teams dedicated to using only basic IOs instead specials. Would feel more like the old days where you play more strategically and carefully. Love those days.

[Krazie Ivan]

5 hours ago, Leogunner said:

Sounds like you could just play on the beta servers and just use the slash commands for instant 50, max inf and all IOs can be bought with inf from vendors.

eh, what?

[Sovera]

18 hours ago, Ice_Warden said:

I had a lot of fun the other day starting my Tina arc at 42. I sent a LFG and only invited 3-4 people instead of a full team. Ran the missions at +3/+8 and it was challenging and fun. With fewer people you know who is doing what and how each person is contributing. Instead of 8 man teams steamrolling and most support toons having no idea if they are doing any good. 
 

Think I might start playing like that more often.

 

Would love to play on teams dedicated to using only basic IOs instead specials. Would feel more like the old days where you play more strategically and carefully. Love those days.

Duo teams are my absolute favorite, and up to four. But once at eight it's turn off the brain and just mash buttons. We need a difficulty setting where all mobs turn to bosses so they live longer and hit harder. It still wouldn't do a thing once at 50 and IOed out though.

[VV]

Another way to look at it is that I am chaotic and therefore I play controllers. Ironic, I know. Controllers, in good hands, can really survive out-of-control situations, better than most ATs. With all the tools at their fingertips, they generally have something for most situations. (Some situation are, of course, untenable, and nobody could save it.) I don't purposely make chaos, uhhh... usually... well... sometimes... Anyway, I try not to antagonize my teammates, but if things get a little cray cray, that is when a controller can really shine. So maybe we have so many chaotic controllers because chaotic people tend to play controllers.

 

I think for the best example of this, run on an all-controller. Talk about stooooooopid. It is hilarious, CHAOTIC fun!

[Tahliah]

On 1/11/2020 at 12:39 PM, Razia said:

I did not know that the right way of "trolling" like you call it, is dependent if there is a tank on the Team. I run my Controller all the same way, it usually doesn't matter what other ATs are in the Team.

This is so interesting to me!  I tend to adapt to team dynamics and try to work with what the team is doing.  For example, if there is an old-school tanker, I will wait until he has herded the mob, then drop my immobs/holds.  If I'm playing on a team that is just steamrolling everything, I will focus more on my secondary set (whatever it is, it will be more useful to steamrolling teams than my controls. Obviously, I will troll random baddies that get too close to the squishies, but mostly, steamrolling teams don't need that backup).  I can't imagine playing any of my trolls (and I have many) the exact same way no matter what the team dynamic.  What if you have a team that is tankless or tank/brute/scrapper heavy or that is all squishies? How do you run your troll the exact same way?  I'm so interested in this!

[Razia]

7 hours ago, Tahliah said:

This is so interesting to me!  I tend to adapt to team dynamics and try to work with what the team is doing.  For example, if there is an old-school tanker, I will wait until he has herded the mob, then drop my immobs/holds.  If I'm playing on a team that is just steamrolling everything, I will focus more on my secondary set (whatever it is, it will be more useful to steamrolling teams than my controls. Obviously, I will troll random baddies that get too close to the squishies, but mostly, steamrolling teams don't need that backup).  I can't imagine playing any of my trolls (and I have many) the exact same way no matter what the team dynamic.  What if you have a team that is tankless or tank/brute/scrapper heavy or that is all squishies? How do you run your troll the exact same way?  I'm so interested in this!

What you are saying is common sense. Of course you adapt, but in your previous post you make it sounds like it's the Tank's fault that you're not "trolling" the right way. And I controll the right way (of course adapting to situation) if there is a tank on the team, or if there isn't. I don't even care if he is tanking the right way.

 

I find it interresting that you say you adapt when you stated earlier that tanks that don't tank the right way, can't expect from you that you are trolling the right way.

[Sailboat]

I've been assuming that Controllers open with their AoE immobilizes inappropriately because it's their main source of AoE damage early on, and they just get in the habit.

 

I do have to say, I was playing my Archery/Tac Arrow/Elactrical Mastery Blaster, who has one AoE hold and two single-target holds, on a team with FOUR controllers in their 30s, and not one thing we fought got held unless I used a hold on it.  We ran five or six missions and not one of them used a hold of any sort, despite troublesome lieutenants of all kinds. Don't they recognize the awesome, game-winning power holds constitute?

Edited January 16, 2020 by Sailboat

[honoroit]

Aoe they get early in leveling process?

 

Thoughts that they're doing something like lowering Def or to-hit as an aoe? 

 

Lack of good aoe otherwise on short CD? 

 

I find the quickest way to get an alpha to the face is aggro by immob, crappy damage and debuff on a group of purples. 

 

Mind control you make alpha to tank prolonged with mass hypnosis, and don't draw aggro, so that's nice. 

 

Dark and mind get good openers with cone fears. 

 

Elec gets excellent sleep ground pulse. 

 

All in all, they're just thirsty to begin, that's probably all it is. Everyone else tears with claws, and they just wanna proc their ATO orbs and set containment. 

[Doc Ranger]

Yeah an AOE immob opener is a quick way to eat dirt...unless you let the melee guys take the aggro first. 

 

I was running some Malta mishes on my 50+ brute last night for a change of pace and there was a troller in his high 30's who would hit the mobs with his aoe immob before I got a chance to get close enough to taunt and jump in the middle. He took many dirt naps...even after I suggested he wait until I get aggro before throwing out aoe's left and right.

 

 

[honoroit]

The ATO orbs, they are so beautiful! 

[quixoteprog]

3 minutes ago, Ice_Warden said:

Yeah an AOE immob opener is a quick way to eat dirt...unless you let the melee guys take the aggro first. 

 

I was running some Malta mishes on my 50+ brute last night for a change of pace and there was a troller in his high 30's who would hit the mobs with his aoe immob before I got a chance to get close enough to taunt and jump in the middle. He took many dirt naps...even after I suggested he wait until I get aggro before throwing out aoe's left and right.

 

 

Yeah, Crushing Field is bad for this. It immobilizes and does damage. In a LARGE area. For some reason mobs HATE that. I learned pretty quick to at least wait until someone did a foot stomp before whipping that one out.

[Doc Ranger]

Yeah...the only real exception is in something like Dark where I have no qualms throwing out aoe because the -tohit is so strong that there isn't an alpha hit to take because most of them miss. I love my Dk/Dk Tank troller 😉

[honoroit]

^ mmm, mines called 'let the feast begin' 

[Tahliah]

On 1/16/2020 at 2:23 AM, Razia said:

What you are saying is common sense. Of course you adapt, but in your previous post you make it sounds like it's the Tank's fault that you're not "trolling" the right way. And I controll the right way (of course adapting to situation) if there is a tank on the team, or if there isn't. I don't even care if he is tanking the right way.

 

I find it interresting that you say you adapt when you stated earlier that tanks that don't tank the right way, can't expect from you that you are trolling the right way.

Oh fgs, are you running out of nits to pick?  I was just saying, in response to the OP, that if tanks aren't tanking, trolls aren't trolling . . . at least not the same way. What is hard about that?  It's the same for blasters (my main/badger is a blaster).  We don't blast the same way now, either, or didn't you notice that we are all playing our ATs differently now? Apparently just you missed the obvious, because you are the one who said you only troll one way, no matter what.  Just the same as you always did.  That's not applying common sense at all.  Right?  If my way is "common sense," then your way is not.

 

But yeah, duh, what I do on whatever AT I am running is try to do the best I can given any team dynamic. The OP was very specific, so I responded to that.  And then you took off into lala land.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Tahliah
clarity

[lemming]

Random thoughts on the thread:

I notice some sub-par playing occasionally, but normally keep opinions to myself since everyone needs to learn somehow.

Definitely guilty of the crazy scrapper running out front vibe  (At least until I learn my lesson).

Tanking I'm still learning.  I keep getting runners because of hitting agro cap.

I do try to play to the team's style and do appreciate the guidelines from the lead.

I did get a little testy with a tank that ran up next to my blaster and taunted a group.  (I noticed when he stopped and started diving for cover, so missed out on most of the alpha)

I like doing solo stuff, but for the most part, enjoy most teams.  I think there's a few things that would have annoyed me more on live, but I'm not as worried over such.

[roleki]

On 1/16/2020 at 3:52 PM, quixoteprog said:

Yeah, Crushing Field is bad for this. It immobilizes and does damage. In a LARGE area. For some reason mobs HATE that. I learned pretty quick to at least wait until someone did a foot stomp before whipping that one out.

This is so true.  I run Controllers almost exclusively, and in my experience, nothing gets all barrels pointed straight at you quicker than CF. 

 

If I could find the source code, the first thing I would look at is how Crushing Field is coded, as opposed to say, Fire Cages or Frostbite. 

 

Fire Cages literally sets people on fire, and nine times out of ten they will still ignore the caster. But throw a CF at random, and suddenly the AV and their retinue don't care they're getting stabbed repeatedly by a Scrapper; now you're Vengeance fuel.

 

This is why I don't lead with anything that doesn't take the most dangerous target out of the fight, whether I'm a Grav/ or an Ice/ or whatever.  I'll still throw a CF in there, but that's like, way down the list of things I might do next.

 

 

[Teikiatsu]

I'm going to reply from the perspective of my Controllers and Tankers :)

 

Controller - When I'm in a high-level team, I feel like a fifth wheel at times.  By the moment my powers resolve, half the mob is already gone.  The Brutes and Blasters are mopping things up.  At best I'm debuffing a Boss, and even then the recharge on that debuff won't be back until after the next two mobs.  Sure I can try to wait for the mob to cluster, but after that happens all the AoE unloads and there is not much left to hold/immob.

 

Tanker - When I'm in a high-level team, I feel like I'm not needed after the alpha strike.  There is no way I can pour out the DPS like a Brute, Blaster, or even a Sentinel.  At best I can keep up the aggro on me, wait for the Troller or Dom to lock down the mob, then move on once the bad guys look like they are under control.  At least I can try to cluster up the next group for easy group immobs and/or AoEs from the rest of the team.

[Erydanus]

I have several controllers and I've never thought crushing field generated any more aggro than other aoe immobilizes. It's not even particularly damaging, fire and plant's counterparts actually are higher damage. However, I could see a Grav getting into the habit of leading with it since they don't have many options unless it's from the secondary and maybe just tossing it a few moments early. It's definitely the one to spam once the tank's in the thick of things. 

[Viaria]

The chaotic play style is for the same reason drivers don't pass in the passing lane. Those controllers not waiting for mobs to gather close together are not thinking of what they can do WITH you. They are only thinking of what they can do. I never grasped the lack of not-so-abstract thought. When on a team I see what others are doing as extra powers of which I may take advantage. A tanker joins my controller; I'm thinking "hey.. now I can herd! What powers of mine will be more effective on tighter mobs?" Of course I'm not the one doing the herding. What the tanker is doing feels like a passive power for which I just have to wait to take effect. Thinking so I have much more fun with assault riffle blasters' full auto. Oh my.. herd 'em up, Beef Boy.. I'll wait.

The point is: people don't think beyond themselves. That seems the nature of common thought. It's not a fast lane. It's a passing lane. PASS! Remaining silent won't help. Speak. Say wait. If the controller gets mad THEN avoid the player in the future. If the player doesn't get mad something had been realized and a team player has been born to go forth and think of how to accent powers in combination with others.

[quixoteprog]

1 hour ago, Erydanus said:

I have several controllers and I've never thought crushing field generated any more aggro than other aoe immobilizes. It's not even particularly damaging, fire and plant's counterparts actually are higher damage. However, I could see a Grav getting into the habit of leading with it since they don't have many options unless it's from the secondary and maybe just tossing it a few moments early. It's definitely the one to spam once the tank's in the thick of things. 

It doesn't do much damage, which is why I wonder at how unpopular it makes my guy. It seems like CF has a large area that it hits, and that may grab mobs from outside the limit of a melee types AoE radius.

 

Not sure about others, but for me it is usually just a fall back on a solo habit. On my Grav/Storm CFR is the best way to set up containment on the entire group so that my other attacks, AoE or not, can do more damage. Usually, I don't have THAT much trouble with it since I can take the range attacks of 5 or so mobs. Even in groups as long as you wait until after the tank/Brute/Scrapper to runs in there and you see numbers start flying over everyone's head you usually don't have that much trouble. But you can get a little click happy on teams that are really rolling through a mish.

 

Even with all that, to me, it does seem to grab aggro a lot more often than I would think, even on fully involved mob groups. All the melee guys are in there mixing it up and so I feel safe cutting lose with CF only to get hammered from I don't know where. Probably because the tanky sorts don't usually bother to taunt, since they usually just cut lose with a couple AoE powers, or have a damage aura that works plenty good. Only not if some froggy controller cuts loose.

[Erydanus]

The only thing I can think of is it does have a -slow component that I think lands regardless of the immobilize. Now for me, I put the energy font proc in it so I'm generating the happy little stunballs with it anyway now. ; )

[Clave Dark 5]

On 1/21/2020 at 10:33 PM, Teikiatsu said:

I'm going to reply from the perspective of my Controllers and Tankers :)

 

Controller - When I'm in a high-level team, I feel like a fifth wheel at times.  By the moment my powers resolve, half the mob is already gone.  The Brutes and Blasters are mopping things up.  At best I'm debuffing a Boss, and even then the recharge on that debuff won't be back until after the next two mobs.  Sure I can try to wait for the mob to cluster, but after that happens all the AoE unloads and there is not much left to hold/immob.

 

Tanker - When I'm in a high-level team, I feel like I'm not needed after the alpha strike.  There is no way I can pour out the DPS like a Brute, Blaster, or even a Sentinel.  At best I can keep up the aggro on me, wait for the Troller or Dom to lock down the mob, then move on once the bad guys look like they are under control.  At least I can try to cluster up the next group for easy group immobs and/or AoEs from the rest of the team.

Neither of which are true!

 

I mean, on a high level team, no one is not a fifth wheel, and you don't need a tank to take the alpha.