Dark armour

[lythy77]

Dark Armour needs some love with its endurance costs its just too high.

[Obus Form]

While leveling, the end drain is astronomically high. Once to start slotting IOs not just in the toggles but in attacks, the end drain is manageable.

 

At level 50 without incarnate powers, IOs alone partially or wholly mitigate any end issues (unless you run other powers that have endurance drain crashes like super strength: Rage)

[Outrider_01]

Try not running

 

1. -Dark Embrace
2. -Death Shroud
3. -Murky Cloud
4. -Obsidian Shield
5. -Cloak of Darkness
6. -Cloak of Fear
7. -Oppressive Gloom
8. -Combat Jumping
9. -Maneuvers
10. -Weave
11. -Tough
12. -Ninja Running
13. -Sprint

All at the same time, but I don't know which you have/use.  Could do without the utility abilities minus the cloak, got to squeeze in the standard staple power pool picks for +def that most people build into.  That is just a massive amount of toggles.

[SwitchFade]

5 hours ago, lythy77 said:

Dark Armour needs some love with its endurance costs its just too high.

I love these posts.

 

😁

[biostem]

6 hours ago, lythy77 said:

Dark Armour needs some love with its endurance costs its just too high.

Dark armor is a set with many tools in its belt.  Not all of these tools are needed in every circumstance.  You need to weigh your ability to keep going in a fight against the benefit all those tools provide, and turn some off when they aren't needed.

[Razor Cure]

58 minutes ago, biostem said:

Dark armor is a set with many tools in its belt.  Not all of these tools are needed in every circumstance.  You need to weigh your ability to keep going in a fight against the benefit all those tools provide, and turn some off when they aren't needed.

Which is a valid point. I agree. But..

WP, rad, bio, fire, regen and to an extent, elec, energy and ice ALL ask just what this 'need to turn off some toggles' idea is. Even shield, sr and nin have nothing like the amount of toggles, just to reach optimum performance for the set. To bring it up again, why else would the Senty version of Dark regen give +recovery? And that remix of the set has one less toggle (equal 1st for the most costly).

[biostem]

10 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

Which is a valid point. I agree. But..

WP, rad, bio, fire, regen and to an extent, elec, energy and ice ALL ask just what this 'need to turn off some toggles' idea is. Even shield, sr and nin have nothing like the amount of toggles, just to reach optimum performance for the set. To bring it up again, why else would the Senty version of Dark regen give +recovery? And that remix of the set has one less toggle (equal 1st for the most costly).

None of those have a fear or disorient toggle.  While energy has a stealth toggle as well, it's schtick *is* energy management via energy drain and energize.  I think part of the oddity with the set is how they game the PBAoE utility powers to the melee set.

 

I just rechecked, and DA has 7 toggles vs EA's or Elec's 4, to boot...

Edited February 25, 2020 by biostem

[Myrmidon]

4 hours ago, Outrider_01 said:

Try not running

 

1. -Dark Embrace
2. -Death Shroud
3. -Murky Cloud
4. -Obsidian Shield
5. -Cloak of Darkness
6. -Cloak of Fear
7. -Oppressive Gloom
8. -Combat Jumping
9. -Maneuvers
10. -Weave
11. -Tough
12. -Sprint (Stealth IO)

This is how both of mine roll and no serious end issues once the IO slotting started piling up.

[Razor Cure]

34 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

once the IO slotting started

Key phrase. Very key phrase.

[Myrmidon]

3 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

Key phrase. Very key phrase.

For the record, I am all for a global Endurance Reduction to the set.😀

[Solarverse]

9 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

For the record, I am all for a global Endurance Reduction to the set.😀

Ditto. Or at very least, add a +Recovery buff to Dark Regeneration similar to the recovery buff from Soul Absorption.

[MTeague]

they don't always in your build, but I do like the sets that produce "% end discount to all powers" as a set bonus.

My Fire/Fire sentinel got a lot more manageable after those.

[Obus Form]

57 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

Ditto. Or at very least, add a +Recovery buff to Dark Regeneration similar to the recovery buff from Soul Absorption.

The way Dark Armour works, +Recovery would make it over powered since no other set offers the same over-powered Heal from Dark Regen.  If you really want +Recovery in Dark Regen, slot +Chance for Endurance drain nictus healing IO.  Honestly though, if you 6-slot Dark Regen with Preventative Medicine, the cost and cool-down are lowered to a manageable degree, and the heal amount (almost 60%) is amazing even when solo-tanking AVs.  With hasten running, I have a 60% heal (versus 1 target) on a 9-second CD, which no other armor set offers.

[KelvinKole]

I'd want to see a debuff resistance added before an endurance discount. Most other sets get debuff resistance of at least one kind: Defense, slow, recovery, etc.. I think dark armor should have tohit debuff resistance. It does get some protection from end drain, which is nice given its high demands. 

[Solarverse]

32 minutes ago, Obus Form said:

The way Dark Armour works, +Recovery would make it over powered since no other set offers the same over-powered Heal from Dark Regen.  If you really want +Recovery in Dark Regen, slot +Chance for Endurance drain nictus healing IO.  Honestly though, if you 6-slot Dark Regen with Preventative Medicine, the cost and cool-down are lowered to a manageable degree, and the heal amount (almost 60%) is amazing even when solo-tanking AVs.  With hasten running, I have a 60% heal (versus 1 target) on a 9-second CD, which no other armor set offers.

Yeah, I guess you're right, that power recharges every 30 seconds. What if we gave Soul Transfer a double use. One use is to rez based off of enemies, the other use would be similar to Soul Absorption? it has a 300 second recharge, which gives it an almost twice as long recharge as Soul Absorption. I don't personally think that giving /Dark a 45 second Recovery buff based on how many targets it hits, every 300 base seconds would be OP. I think that would be a good compromise that gives /Dark just enough recovery utility without giving them constant endless endurance. it simply gives them a 45 second break from time to time from having to heavily manage toggles.

[ScarySai]

14 hours ago, lythy77 said:

Dark Armour needs some love with its endurance costs its just too high.

Dark Armor is one of those things that is a sad time while leveling, but it really rewards you for putting up with it long enough to IO it out.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

i have a level 50 dark armor. with capped resists and softcapped melee defenses. I never run out of end. I also do not rely on incarnates. Slot well, play well or try another powerset.

[Razor Cure]

27 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

i have a level 50 dark armor. with capped resists and softcapped melee defenses. I never run out of end. I also do not rely on incarnates. Slot well, play well or try another powerset.

Yeah, cause being 50 and IO'd out is totally an accurate reflection on GETTING DA to 50.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

my apologies i thought this was a "DA needs improvements thread" not a "this game is too hard, make it easier please" thread

[Galaxy Brain]

4 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

my apologies i thought this was a "DA needs improvements thread" not a "this game is too hard, make it easier please" thread

IO's and Incarnates are available to everyone though, so I really see that as a 100% moot point when talking about DA's shortcomings in every other environment.

[Trickshooter]

23 hours ago, lythy77 said:

Dark Armour needs some love with its endurance costs its just too high.

Dark Armor has a built in 20% endurance cost reduction on it's toggles. Sounds like you might just be running too many at once, or using Dark Regeneration too frequently without any EndRedux enhancements in it.

[ScarySai]

56 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

IO's and Incarnates are available to everyone though, so I really see that as a 100% moot point when talking about DA's shortcomings in every other environment.

DA's shortcomings are only really a problem in a world without IOs.

 

For a punishing climb up (Less-so if you know what you're doing), you gain one of the best armor power sets in the game. Only Rad armor even comes close defensively.

 

If it were to get an end reduction, I wouldn't be opposed to it, but I don't consider this a high-priority issue. 

 

And that's the major consideration, here, at the end of the day.

[Solarverse]

6 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

i have a level 50 dark armor. with capped resists and softcapped melee defenses. I never run out of end. I also do not rely on incarnates. Slot well, play well or try another powerset.

And this right here is how flame wars start. You  come in with an attitude, you got attitude back, and now you want to escalate it with even further attitude, It's one thing to state your opinion. But to end sentence with, "Slot well, play well or try another powerset" is just straight up asking for it. You could have just as easily made your point without the snark.

 

As far as your point goes, it's kind of hard for a lot of players to be willing to be okay with your point since, by time most players reach the final part of their characters, (getting them IO'ed out, Incarnates) they put that character away and start a new journey with a new character, only to break out the fully IO'ed character when called upon...unless...it is their main character and they are always playing to get the next badge.

 

So saying that the build is fine once somebody is fully IO'ed out, isn't really helping. Keep it cool, man. Say your point, give your opinion, you never know, somebody might just agree with you; but adding the snark at the end is pretty much going to guarantee that whoever you're giving the crass to is only going to see the crass and not your point.

[Solarverse]

2 hours ago, Trickshooter said:

Dark Armor has a built in 20% endurance cost reduction on it's toggles. Sounds like you might just be running too many at once, or using Dark Regeneration too frequently without any EndRedux enhancements in it.

I took a look at the End Cost numbers and it seems you are correct. Most toggle shields cost .26 whereas Dark's shields cost .21. The major culprit to the end cost is Cloak of Fear. Death Shroud is also up there, but it's the same as the others. Cloak of Fear comes with the same endurance cost as Death Shroud.

 

It's a factual point, however, considering that Dark runs 3 more toggles than the typical Tank/Scrapper/Stalker builds, I would think that changes Soul Transfer to be active when not dead, and giving it a buff similar to Soul Absorption will be just enough to make the set more manageable without giving the player endurance that lasts forever. If they play right and build right, that buff should be available just about the time when the build becomes desperate for endurance.

 

Now granted, this is an end game power and I understand that kind of goes against the point that I made to Saiy, however, it's the only power that an endurance buff could be added to without making the build have OP End Recovery.

[Replacement]

Dark Armor total end cost before either of the mez auras: 1.41 end/sec

 

Invulnerability end cost for all toggles: 0.73

 

Fiery Aura, all toggles: 1.04 + end refill

 

Shield Defense, all toggles: 0.63

 

One of these is simply not like the others.  It's probably the one with a Click ability that costs 1/3rd of your Endurance bar.  Yeah, I know, theft of essence.  But it's really not even enough.  I think I'd be fine at this point if we just lowered Dark Regeneration's End cost.

 

EDIT: found a comparable one. 

Ice Armor: full cost, 1.56 + End refill.

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Replacement