Focused Feedback: Dark Melee Update (Build 1)

[ScarySai]

6 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

And you can do that much easier, and sooner when exemplaring. Again, i know it's an IO world, but sets are not designed around that

Considering how CP himself mentioned IOs when discussing balancing DC, clearly this isn't the case anymore.

 

7 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

and to do that costs tons of money and lots of effort to get it to that recharge which should not be the focus.

Not anymore, really. You could probably get most of the build sans purples in an afternoon of blowing up missions. A few hours if you have a fire farmer.

[Camel]

1 hour ago, ScarySai said:

It's the problem with a totally open forum like this, people who have no idea what they are talking about, who think being able to solo +0x8 is impressive, are able to add their feedback to the pool.

 

The best we can do is refute the claims and educate the masses, hoping those incorrect factors aren't being taken into consideration for development. 

 

Fact of the matter is that dark melee is pretty dependent on  1: Being surrounded to get it's damage buff, and 2: shield secondary to reach reasonable clear speeds, simply because it does not have access to a lot of AoE.

DC in its initial form was too powerful, or rather, had the potential to be too powerful. It was a PBAoE power with a less than 20 second recharge that could be more powerful than a Blasters nuke, and at a lower recharge. Again, that was not happening every mob, or to every enemy in the mob. But the damage it was pumping out was utterly ridiculous at times. But that’s the issue with having a power scale it’s damage based on multiple factors. I personally think the only aspect of the power that needs balancing is how the damage scales. Because outside of that window, where your damage potential is at its highest, it’s actually a pretty well balanced power!

[Camel]

On 2/25/2020 at 5:00 PM, csr said:

Since I had my Incarnate DM/Regen Brute on beta already, I took him out for a spin in the Comic Con S&L farm at +4x8.  I didn't bother to rework him, so Dark Consumption was slotted with just three Performance Shifters, reducing the likely damage value by a chunk - he's a Brute though, so less than on other ATs - and increasing the cycle time.  I ran the farm in just over 10 minutes using Incarnates but no inspirations.  DM is not exactly well suited to this, of course, so that time sans all that +DMG I'd have if I were really farming is pretty good.  I could have shaved it to 8 minutes or less if I was more serious about it.  That's not going to approach a Spines/Fire of course, but we're talking a DM/Regen here, currently one of the worst farm builds I can think of.

I tried a +4x8 Fire Farm on my DM/Shield/Blaze Scrapper with a new build that optimized the changes. Cleared the entire map in about 4:40. Pretty impressive time. My Rad/Fire Brute clears it about 30-60 seconds faster. 

[Frosticus]

I fully expected this power to either have a partial or no crit at all. I thought I posted about it, but never hit submit. 

 

At any rate, I strongly vote for DC to have a bigger aoe and do less damage.

8ft aoes are not very good imo and given the extreme damage and lengthy recharge this will result in annoying corner pulls and frustrated DM users if and when some troller knocks their mobs away.

 

12ft with lower damage please.

[Leogunner]

12 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

I fully expected this power to either have a partial or no crit at all. I thought I posted about it, but never hit submit. 

 

At any rate, I strongly vote for DC to have a bigger aoe and do less damage.

8ft aoes are not very good imo and given the extreme damage and lengthy recharge this will result in annoying corner pulls and frustrated DM users if and when some troller knocks their mobs away.

 

12ft with lower damage please.

While having a larger AoE but reduced damage does aid in higher DPS and usability, I have to admit I like the concept of an exceptionally lethal close-ranged attack like it is now.

 

Smacking bigger AoEs on everything is starting to get over-used.

[Neogumbercules]

18 minutes ago, Frosticus said:

I fully expected this power to either have a partial or no crit at all. I thought I posted about it, but never hit submit. 

 

At any rate, I strongly vote for DC to have a bigger aoe and do less damage.

8ft aoes are not very good imo and given the extreme damage and lengthy recharge this will result in annoying corner pulls and frustrated DM users if and when some troller knocks their mobs away.

 

12ft with lower damage please.

I'd take this over the proposed scaling diminishing returns from +dam. I feel like that idea is just an overly complicated workaround to making the power too strong. 

 

Another idea I had was to lower the base damage but apply the increased damage scaling based on enemy HP missing, that way you don't have a huge nuke to open with but it's a good follow-up power. 

 

Ultimately though I fee like it's fine as is. The small radius and DMs overall lack of AOE especially compared to other sets doesn't tip this power over any line IMO.

 

It's not like it's going to make a difference when every single character in this game is a friggin demigod at level 50 anyway. 

[Leogunner]

I almost forgot to ask: Is the the radius for the extra damage (the 3ft range) extended for Tankers?

[WindDemon21]

5 hours ago, ScarySai said:

Considering how CP himself mentioned IOs when discussing balancing DC, clearly this isn't the case anymore.

 

Not anymore, really. You could probably get most of the build sans purples in an afternoon of blowing up missions. A few hours if you have a fire farmer.

And not everyone wants to have to do that with their builds either. Some recharge bonuses sure fine, but not capped to the max. It's really annoying to HAVE to take hasten all the time to make a set worth playing.

 

And as to the 90s recharge. Yes it would be more beneficial to have that, with a lower damage boost, but more initial target focused. To be clear the damage value would still be more than build up and you're still perma-ing it anyway, it would now just be in line with DC and be of actual use in AV/boss fights.

 

This would be MUCH more valuable overall to dark melee with this change.

Edited February 29, 2020 by WindDemon21

[Haijinx]

If I take hasten, I want it to be perma though.

 

 

[WindDemon21]

Just now, Haijinx said:

If I take hasten, I want it to be perma though.

 

 

Me too, which is also annoying having it not be perma. I wish all long recharge powers were just slightly shortened, and hasten was a lower buff but perma making its need, and heavy recharge builds less necessary.

[Troo]

Is there a summary or collection of suggestions? Just wondering.

 

On 2/25/2020 at 10:43 AM, Jimmy said:

Dark Consumption (Tanker, Scrapper, Brute) has been reworked into a Lightning Rod-style mini-nuke, with its damage scaling based on your current Endurance percentage. At full Endurance, Dark Consumption will now deal similar damage to Lightning Rod.

Also, a quick shout out to the 'team'. These are some pretty cool tweaks.

I'm glad to see power sets can still have really unique aspects.

Thanks @Jimmy @Captain Powerhousefor reading through all of this and helping keep the mob on task.

[Wavicle]

I would like to second the proposal of "Consume Souls" instead of "Dark Equilibrium". It both sounds more like the original power and has the right flavor.

[summers]

7 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I would like to second the proposal of "Consume Souls" instead of "Dark Equilibrium". It both sounds more like the original power and has the right flavor.

I don't know if it matters anymore - it's just a name, afterall - but that is not an especially heroic name 😜

[Vanden]

Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t Dark Melee already have a power that’s about consuming souls

[ScarySai]

3 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t Dark Melee already have a power that’s about consuming souls

Two, if you count drain life.

 

Let's go three for three!

[Coyote]

5 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t Dark Melee already have a power that’s about consuming souls

 

No, that just drains them, seasons them, and "cooks" them in hellfires for 1.5 seconds at 350 thousand degrees.

 

This power actually consumes them. But they taste better when properly prepared, and that's why you go Soul Drain --> Consume Souls 😉

[Leogunner]

20 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I would like to second the proposal of "Consume Souls" instead of "Dark Equilibrium". It both sounds more like the original power and has the right flavor.

Considering it already has a "Soul" power, I think it could stand to diversify its vocabulary.  Oddly enough, Dark Consumption is the only attack in the set that has "dark" in the name.  Dark [something] sounds more thematic since the set isn't really about souls anyway.  Some synonyms:

 

Ruin

Devour

Decay

Dilapidation

Atrophy

Deteriorate

Decline

Rot

Decompose

Abrasion

Attrition

Corrosion

Disintegration

 

I like the alliteration of Dark Dilapidation but it's a bit of a mouth full.

 

I'm not sure why Equilibrium was the next option.  I guess since it's "equalizing" between harm and benefit? If it's bringing things to a state of ballast,  maybe something less syllable-iness like "Darkness' Rest" (Sable Stable?), "Hushed Dark", "Night's Silence", "Tranquil Void" or "Dark Famine".

[Caulderone]

Since Essence Drain is already in use (kheldian), how about Essence Consumption?

[ScarySai]

1 hour ago, WindDemon21 said:

Me too, which is also annoying having it not be perma. I wish all long recharge powers were just slightly shortened, and hasten was a lower buff but perma making its need, and heavy recharge builds less necessary.

There's a saying: "Don't fix what isn't broken."

[summers]

1 minute ago, ScarySai said:

There's a saying: "Don't fix what isn't broken."

I think balance in this game was broken a long time ago...

Edited February 29, 2020 by summers

[ScarySai]

ᴮᶦᵗ ᵗᵒᵒ ˡᵃᵗᵉ ᵗᵒ ᶠᶦˣ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ᵗʰᵒ.

[Vanden]

I like Dark Singularity.

[Major_Decoy]

Well, consumption is really an out of date term. It's much more commonly referred to as Tuberculosis now.

[ScarySai]

"Eye of Darkness"

 

"Soul Explosion"

 

"Fart of Doom"

[Haijinx]

Dark Consumption is good.  Maybe try that.