Weekly Discussion 41: ATO Sets!

[johnnysc]

One thought about new ATO sets: it might be necessary to treat them more like the power pools and limit the number of ATO sets you can choose to use in your build. So as each AT has two now, if a third set could be available then you'd have to decide which two of the three is best suited to your build or desired play style.

[Chris24601]

7 minutes ago, johnnysc said:

One thought about new ATO sets: it might be necessary to treat them more like the power pools and limit the number of ATO sets you can choose to use in your build. So as each AT has two now, if a third set could be available then you'd have to decide which two of the three is best suited to your build or desired play style.

I’d actually be okay with that.

 

It does open up a line of thought though that might diminish the amount of work needed for brand new sets and be a solution to my problem with the controller ATOs... what if you had limited access to the ATOs of other classes as one of your two.

 

For example; either of the two blaster ATO sets/procs would work far better for my grav/storm controller than the current controller ones. 

 

Obviously, not every set can work. Scrapper crit improvement only works if you have crits in the first place, but the blaster’s stacking mez protection proc would work for anyone (though not really needed on the melee classes with built-in mez protection). This is why I’d suggest specifically curated access.

 

As a possible example, for the controller allow it to also choose the blaster ATO with the mez protection proc and say, the defender ATO with the minor heal (i.e. focusing a bit in the direction of their secondary instead of their primary).

 

My main line of thinking here is it could avoid having to build new sets from scratch and the desire to make those unique from any already existing set when that’s not as needed.

 

The downside is that some sets don’t share as well as others (i.e. just about anyone could use the two blaster sets, but anything that interacts with class mechanics (ex. placate or domination) won’t be shareable, leading some ATs to lose a small bit of their individuality while others keep theirs.

 

Whether that’s a worthwhile trade for the savings in designing new sets I leave to people who know how to measure such things.

[Obus Form]

Design philosophy, then Brute/VEAT ATOs

 

Design philosophy:

Looking through all ATOs, it seems the general idea was for ATOs to provide the best bonuses desired by that AT with powerful/impactful/flavorful procs and 6th set bonuses.  

 

My experience lands squarely into Brutes (scrapper too) and VEAT (🦀/🐺)

 

Brute:

Both ATOs procs are powerful/flavorful and impactful, as are it's set bonuses of 10% recharge, 6% resist, + %HP.  Well done on the bonuses.  However there is a bug with the proc that increases regen while giving end discount (that stacks five times).  The end discount does stack 5 times and keeps the stack, but the regen buff seems to remain active for only 2 seconds before going away.  The proc was placed in the /dark armour set, Death Shroud power.

 

VEAT (🦀/🐺):

The global toxic proc, while not as impactful as Kheldian form buff proc, is at least flavorful.  Sadly, the chance to terrorize/-damage proc is not impacts but flavorful.  The lack of impact is due to the fact that mag 2 terrorize and -damage is useless against any mob on which you would want it to proc, namely bosses, EBs, and AVs.  Would be nice to change this proc to fit with the theme of the VEAT, for example, summon a fellow widow or 🦀 of boss level for 10 seconds, chance to proc 4PPM.  

 

Also the bonuses should reflect the best desired stats for that archetype, namely HP, Damage, Resist, and Recharge.  Sadly it doesn't and makes the set with the global toxic proc undesirable.

 

[Gulbasaur]

4 hours ago, Obus Form said:

Sadly, the chance to terrorize/-damage proc is not impacts but flavorful

Actually, I think it's quite impactful on my fortunata - enemies feared = enemies not attacking = fewer rolls against defence. I'd love it if it were a global proc like the toxic one, but I see why it's not.

[Obus Form]

33 minutes ago, Gulbasaur said:

Actually, I think it's quite impactful on my fortunata - enemies feared = enemies not attacking = fewer rolls against defence. I'd love it if it were a global proc like the toxic one, but I see why it's not.

IIRC it's mag 2 though, which means no bosses =(

 

Actually iirc all crowd control proc are mag 2, except the purple stun set (absolute amazement?) proc that is a mag 6 KB.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Obus Form

[Yomo Kimyata]

Some are markedly better than others.  And some are more in demand because their AT is more heavily played.  Just based on my experience buying and selling them in the AH, I'd tier them as (alphabetically within tier):

 

Top Tier:  Blaster, Brute, Tanker.  These are consistently in demand, and have nice bonuses to boot.

Middle Tier:  Controller, Corruptor, Mastermind (Mark of Supremacy), Scrapper, Stalker.  Sometimes there is a demand for these, sometimes not.  The bonuses are generally good, but supply quickly knocks the price down.

Bottom Tier:  Defender, Dominator, Kheldian, Mastermind (Command of the Mastermind), Soldiers of Arachnos.  Either sub-par bonuses or lack of demand for AT.  When I get these I usually convert them to a higher tier.

[Obus Form]

29 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Some are markedly better than others.  And some are more in demand because their AT is more heavily played.  Just based on my experience buying and selling them in the AH...

Get your own niche!  Shoo!!

[GM Miss]

What are yalls favorite procs from the sets?

[...]

Dominator and troller ATOs could benefit from offering both control duration and damage enhancement. Then you would be very happy to slot them into your single target hold or immob (the latter on trollers). 

 

Would be nice if both sets gave 10% recharge. Honestly, lack of that bonus keeps me from slotting the set in most cases. 

 

For doms, would be nice if you could use some ATOs in the secondary. Honestly, doms basically have two primaries, depending on the team, fight and build. 

 

Only the dominator +dmg proc is good. The other 3 procs are very unexciting. 

[Gulbasaur]

13 minutes ago, GM Miss said:

What are yalls favorite procs from the sets?

The VEAT toxic damage proc, just because it's global. It adds a mechanic to the two archetypes by adding DoTs.

 

Similarly, the two (slightly overpowered) stalker procs actually change how the archetype plays.

 

The defender procs are pretty ignorable, in my opinion. The corruptor endurance proc is nice. The tanker +Res proc is borderline useless on a resistance based tanker.

 

The kheldian heal proc is so slight it's barely there.

 

[Eldyem]

36 minutes ago, GM Miss said:

What are yalls favorite procs from the sets?

Flame Orb + Energy Font (even if they suck) for looking cool. Slotting them into the AoE immob can end up with me getting a lot of fireballs following me around, but I'm somewhat unconvinced they actually do anything.

[DR_Mechano]

44 minutes ago, GM Miss said:

What are yalls favorite procs from the sets?

Definitely the two stalker procs. Despite someone upthread putting them in 'middle tier' the two Stalker ATO procs are massive game changers for Stalkers. Chance for Hide in AS effectively removes the need for placate as a clunky way of getting a second hard hitting power from stealth and has pushed Stalkers from 'middling' to 'seriously good' in the single target. The global chance for Build up to recharge is also nifty, sometimes proccing enough that you can stack build up 3 times in a row for a stupidly heavy hit (if the mob has survived that long).

[SaddestGhost]

36 minutes ago, Eldyem said:

Flame Orb + Energy Font (even if they suck) for looking cool. Slotting them into the AoE immob can end up with me getting a lot of fireballs following me around, but I'm somewhat unconvinced they actually do anything.

I agree with that sentiment.  I think people tend to overvalue them because it's very obvious when they proc, but if you pay attention to how often and how long they actually stun enemies it's underwhelming.

[Chris24601]

6 hours ago, GM Miss said:

What are yalls favorite procs from the sets?

The Blaster stacking status protection proc is my top tier. I’d love it on some of my other ATs that lack mez protection.

 

Not a proc and the global +crit for scrappers isn’t flashy, but seeing those big numbers and “critical” over targets is its own reward.

 

I’m least impressed with the controller sets mainly because they’re a poor fit in the main powers that that also do damage and are the only means a solo reasonably has of defeating anything with any speed and many of the powers you’d consider slotting aren’t ones you’re naturally prone to six-slotting.

[Jaguaratron]

Dominator and Controller ones are meh

[Gulbasaur]

9 hours ago, DR_Mechano said:

Despite someone upthread putting them in 'middle tier' the two Stalker ATO procs are massive game changers for Stalkers.

Yeah... I didn't understand that. The two ATOs plus the Gaussian's proc are my "hit for over 1k damage" combo, almost guaranteeing you two critical hits in a row under double Build Up. I honesty think they're the best ATOs in the game. 

[tidge]

I like the Dominator Orb and Controller Font because they will draw aggro from mobs that I've just immobilized. According to the buff icons, it also looks like they are applying Interface effects as well (but I have not verified). Not the best pets, but they are actually doing something.

[Yomo Kimyata]

I, for one, don't think we need new ATO sets.  They currently provide so much value, at low cost.  I get that everyone wants more and to solo Hami, but I really hope the devs don't provide it.

 

[Six-Six]

Some guy from the Discord had a brilliant idea. Defense ATOs that can be slotted into secondaries. Those could be the start of a whole new game. His tag on the discord is Mainframe and here are his ideas:

"...a proposal for two new Universal IO sets. Specifically these would be Universal armor sets, slottable in Defense or Resistance Based powers. All the enhancements that affect either Defense or Resist will be marked as D/R, for the sake of brevity."

Stalwart Barricade
D/R enhancement
D/R/Endurance enhancement Endurance/Recharge enhancement
D/R/Recharge enhancement
D/R/Recharge/Endurance enhancement Recharge/Aura- grants a +3% defense to allies, but not to the person with the IO slotted.

Set bonuses
2- 3% Endurance Cost reduction
3- +1% Defense to all Defenses
4- some Mez resistance
5- Knockback Protection
6- 5% Endurance Cost reduction


Eternally Vigilant
D/R enhancement
D/R/Endurance enhancement
Endurance/Recharge enhancement
D/R/Recharge enhancement
D/R/Endurance/Recharge enhancement Recharge/Chance for +Heal when struck

Set bonuses
2- +Recovery
3- +2% resist to all damages
4- +regeneration
5- +4% resist to all damages (replaces earlier bonus)
6- +Perception

I think it's a great idea. The only thing I'd like to "tweak" would be Eternally Vigilant's 5pc set bonus to be changed to something that won't nullify the 3pc set bonus (maybe +3% Def all or status protection?)

 

[Zepp]

Generally the ATOs are good.

For Trollers & Doms I generally five to six slot the Will/Ascendancy and get only the pseudopet from the other set.

For Masterminds I tend to Frankenslot with two of each ATO and two Soulbound as the two piece set bonuses from those sets are so good.

For Sentinels I generally do three sets of two for Opportunity and two sets of three for Ward to cover for the decreased range (which also is useful for TP).

For Corruptors & Fenders I sometimes split the set with 10% recharge in two, but often just six slot both sets.

For Widows I generally five slot Dominion and three slot Spider's because the higher set bonuses aren't valuable enough.

For Blasters, Brutes, Kheldians, Scrappers, Soldiers, Stalkers, & Tankers I five to six slot both sets.

 

Trollers & Doms could use some love for their weaker set (and maybe some damage support). Masterminds and Sentinels could use some better downstream bonuses to make sacrificing the duplication of two or piece bonuses worthwhile. Widows could use some adjustments to the six piece bonus for Dominion and four through six piece bonuses for Spider because they are not that useful on Widows.

 

That being said, they are functional and don't actually need to be fixed. Just saying they could be better.

[Zepp]

3 hours ago, Six Six said:

Some guy from the Discord had a brilliant idea. Defense ATOs that can be slotted into secondaries. Those could be the start of a whole new game. His tag on the discord is Mainframe and here are his ideas:

"...a proposal for two new Universal IO sets. Specifically these would be Universal armor sets, slottable in Defense or Resistance Based powers. All the enhancements that affect either Defense or Resist will be marked as D/R, for the sake of brevity."

Stalwart Barricade
D/R enhancement
D/R/Endurance enhancement Endurance/Recharge enhancement
D/R/Recharge enhancement
D/R/Recharge/Endurance enhancement Recharge/Aura- grants a +3% defense to allies, but not to the person with the IO slotted.




Eternally Vigilant
D/R enhancement
D/R/Endurance enhancement
Endurance/Recharge enhancement
D/R/Recharge enhancement
D/R/Endurance/Recharge enhancement Recharge/Chance for +Heal when struck

Set bonuses
2- +Recovery
3- +2% resist to all damages
4- +regeneration
5- +4% resist to all damages (replaces earlier bonus)
6- +Perception

I think it's a great idea. The only thing I'd like to "tweak" would be Eternally Vigilant's 5pc set bonus to be changed to something that won't nullify the 3pc set bonus (maybe +3% Def all or status protection?)
 

This is an interesting idea, but I would prefer one set rather than two (to keep things from getting out of hand.

 

D/R enhancement
D/R/Endurance enhancement
Endurance/Recharge enhancement
D/R/Recharge enhancement
D/R/Endurance/Recharge enhancement

Recharge/Chance for AoE Heal when struck

 

Set bonuses
2- 4% Recovery
3- 16% Regen
4- 3.75% Endurance Cost reduction
5- 7.5% Mez Resists
6- +3% to all Defenses +5% to all Resists

 

[Saikochoro]

My favorite ones by far are the stalker ATOs. Good bonuses and excellent procs. They also truly fit the flavor of the archetype. 

[subbacultchas]

23 hours ago, GM Miss said:

What are yalls favorite procs from the sets?

Controller Energy Font Proc, even though others don't like it much. The Stalker Hide proc is probably the best single one though, just a fantastic set and proc in it.

[Chris24601]

19 minutes ago, subbacultchas said:

Controller Energy Font Proc, even though others don't like it much. The Stalker Hide proc is probably the best single one though, just a fantastic set and proc in it.

To be fair, it’s not that I don’t like the proc, it’s just that often the only good place

to slot the set is in your AoE hold because you are seriously compromising what little damage output you personally have (and need if you intend to do any soloing at all) if you slot them into your single target immobilize or hold.

 

Those sets would be viable in a lot more Controller powers if they, say, added a damage enhancement component to some/all of the IOs in the set and then rescaled the values based on the new number of enhanced elements (i.e. an acc/mez becomes acc/mez/damage with bonuses scaled normally for a triple enhancement IO).

[MrSnottyPants]

I think the Kheldian heal's proc rate is too low - like maybe bugged too low.  I counted up a mission once and it was 4% of attacks.  It doesn't heal nearly enough for 4%.

 

Could the Dominator Fiery Orb and Controller Energy Font take their colors from the power they are slotted in?  My dominator is electric - the fire looks wrong.  But if it was electricity colors....