Discussion: Disabling XP No Longer Increases Influence

[ivanhedgehog]

59 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

You know... I think that's more succinctly true than anyone has realized.  The people complaining the most aren't unhappy about making less, they're unhappy about the potential for prices to be less.  They want inflation, because the higher prices climb, the more "elite" they envision themselves for being able to afford the most expensive IOs.  They want IOs which cost more than the inf* cap, because having them will make them "important", construe an air of wisdom, knowledge and exceptional capability.

 

For some reason, I find that very amusing.

what would help the economy would be for the devs to run a script that across the board deletes 50% of every toons inf. 75% if that toon has more than 1.75 billion. This change will do nothing for inflation, there is too much cash out there already and the marketeers that have most of it wont be giving it up. everyone would feel the pain so no one would feel left out.

[Parabola]

51 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

This couldnt be more wrong. Most farmers I know of tend to get enough for themselves(usually enough to IO out a new toon they're interested in) then dump the rest for stupid cheap. Farmers are not some evil force. People who complain lack the(and I don't really care who this offends) mental capability to build one. That's a YOU problem, not some evil force. Learn and do better.

Sigh. At least I have the mental capability to understand the comment I am responding to...

[tidge]

20 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

what would help the economy would be for the devs to run a script that across the board deletes 50% of every toons inf. 75% if that toon has more than 1.75 billion. This change will do nothing for inflation, there is too much cash out there already and the marketeers that have most of it wont be giving it up. everyone would feel the pain so no one would feel left out.

"Marketeers" are not contributing to inflation. Buying and selling on the market SINKS inf.

 

Besides, if such a plan was put in place, "marketeers" would make almost all of it back pretty quickly, if desired. I recently respec-ed two 'older' lvl 50 toons which had much less INF than 1.75B. I spent a couple of days 'on the market' and each of them is equipped as planned, including w/ boosters. Self-reporting perhaps, but this market action was pretty low grade Ebil.

[Oubliette_Red]

1 hour ago, Digirium said:

No, because selfishness will increase and it's more likely players will cotton on to hording IO enhancements in base storage for their needs later because the recipes, components and converters are worth more than they get on the AH. What's available in AH will still be higher priced for the big kill - gatherers will get turned off.

After following this entire thread, plus numerous others that have popped up, the only selfishness I've seen stated or hinted at is "You've ruined my farming, guess I won't be giving away any more inf."

[Peerless Girl]

39 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

what would help the economy would be for the devs to run a script that across the board deletes 50% of every toons inf. 75% if that toon has more than 1.75 billion. This change will do nothing for inflation, there is too much cash out there already and the marketeers that have most of it wont be giving it up. everyone would feel the pain so no one would feel left out.

I'm going to say this again. Market use/Marketeering is NOT the problem here. Market use moves money AROUND it doesn't CREATE IT (i.e. inflation). I think you KNOW that, and are simply pushing your agenda. I get that it impacts your chosen fun, and that sucks. Many things over the years (including ED and the Great Global Defense Nerf and the Invlun nerf have impacted mine. I even threatened to quit (and never did). It sucks when something you like is affected. But this is not the issue, I refuse to believe you don't understand this, because the alternative is....not nice. 

[MunkiLord]

1 hour ago, ivanhedgehog said:

what would help the economy would be for the devs to run a script that across the board deletes 50% of every toons inf. 75% if that toon has more than 1.75 billion. This change will do nothing for inflation, there is too much cash out there already and the marketeers that have most of it wont be giving it up. everyone would feel the pain so no one would feel left out.

But what would that actually accomplish? If someone is sitting on 50 billion influence, a majority of it, likely an overwhelming majority, is just sitting on characters/emails not being used, so it is effectively already out of the game. So instead of 150 billion influence someone has 37.5 billion, what actual impact would that have? 

 

edit: Love that terrible sentence structure and overuse of commas!

Edited April 6, 2020 by MunkiLord

[Yomo Kimyata]

22 minutes ago, tidge said:

"Marketeers" are not contributing to inflation. Buying and selling on the market SINKS inf.

 

Besides, if such a plan was put in place, "marketeers" would make almost all of it back pretty quickly, if desired. I recently respec-ed two 'older' lvl 50 toons which had much less INF than 1.75B. I spent a couple of days 'on the market' and each of them is equipped as planned, including w/ boosters. Self-reporting perhaps, but this market action was pretty low grade Ebil.

This.  The reason I'm "rich" in imaginary currency is that I know the system extremely well and I am able to accurately assess the motives and behaviors of others.  Within a week or two, anyone who knows what they are doing would be back to flush at the expense of those who are, forgive the term, "market stupid."

[Haijinx]

7 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

But what would that actually accomplish? If someone is sitting on 50 billion influence, a majority of it, likely an overwhelming majority, is just sitting on characters/emails not being used, so it is effectively already out of the game. So instead of 150 billion influence someone has 37.5 billion, what actual impact would that have? 

 

 

112.5 Billion in Epeen Bragging Rights would be lost to the COHworld. 

[Grouchybeast]

21 minutes ago, Peerless Girl said:

I'm going to say this again. Market use/Marketeering is NOT the problem here. Market use moves money AROUND it doesn't CREATE IT (i.e. inflation). I think you KNOW that, and are simply pushing your agenda. I get that it impacts your chosen fun, and that sucks. Many things over the years (including ED and the Great Global Defense Nerf and the Invlun nerf have impacted mine. I even threatened to quit (and never did). It sucks when something you like is affected. But this is not the issue, I refuse to believe you don't understand this, because the alternative is....not nice. 

Let's be fair, though.  Periodically running a script that deleted a proportion of all the inf in the game would actually help combat inflation, and so as a suggestion it's in at least the top 5% in this thread.

[Dazl]

1 hour ago, MunkiLord said:

That comment didn't say farmers were an evil force, just that there is nothing inherently noble about it. 

As opposed to the marketeers taking advantage of the "market stupid", sitting on so many billions they have to come up with creative ways to move it around to store it. Farmers are taking advantage of the games mechanics just like the marketeers. At least the farmers are adding recipes, salvage, and buying those IO's the marketeers are selling. They are not just hoarding what they earn and looking down on the marketeers.

[Murcielago]

On 4/5/2020 at 3:10 PM, skoryy said:

There's a soft limit, though:

 

~500k to create a lvl 50 uncommon IO

~90k per converter

Most rare IOs sell for roughly 1 mil.

 

Unless you hit the converter lottery and land on a high demand IO, you're taking a loss once you use more than five converters.  Up to ten (I think) if you're converting lower level IOs.

Ooo that's a good idea, add an increasing influence charge with each subsequent conversion. First conversion: 50k INF, second 100k INF, etc...

[MunkiLord]

4 minutes ago, Crimsonpyre said:

As opposed to the marketeers taking advantage of the "market stupid", sitting on so many billions they have to come up with creative ways to move it around to store it. Farmers are taking advantage of the games mechanics just like the marketeers. At least the farmers are adding recipes, salvage, and buying those IO's the marketeers are selling. They are not just hoarding what they earn and looking down on the marketeers.

Not really sure what you're going on about. Neither activity is inherently good or bad, both are done for almost completely selfish reasons, and both have benefits to people that don't do them. And those benefits to other people, those are nothing more than unintended consequences.

[Yomo Kimyata]

45 minutes ago, Crimsonpyre said:

As opposed to the marketeers taking advantage of the "market stupid", sitting on so many billions they have to come up with creative ways to move it around to store it. Farmers are taking advantage of the games mechanics just like the marketeers. At least the farmers are adding recipes, salvage, and buying those IO's the marketeers are selling. They are not just hoarding what they earn and looking down on the marketeers.

Just for the record, I am unaware of any marketeers who do nothing but evilly cackle and wring profit from the AH, just like I don't know any farmers who don't use the AH.  It's kind of disingenuous to simplify people that way.  We're all adding supply to the system through gameplay.  It's just that some of us are better at extracting value than others (and some of us are adding more raw inf into the system than others).  Example, if the last 5 traded are: 10mm, 8mm, 9mm, 10mm, 5mm, you can probably sell it instantly for 5mm, or sell it in an hour or two at 10mm.  Your choice.  You can sell your PvP snipe recipe for a few mm, or you can craft it, spend a converter or ten to make it into a Shield Wall +res and either sell it for 15mm or use it.  Your choice.  No one says you market OR farm OR play other content.

 

People market, and people craft, and people farm, and people run TFs, and people PUG, and people sometimes just sit around and chat about stupid things.

 

You may now resume your previously scheduled marketeer bashing!

[Dazl]

44 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

Not really sure what you're going on about. Neither activity is inherently good or bad, both are done for almost completely selfish reasons, and both have benefits to people that don't do them. And those benefits to other people, those are nothing more than unintended consequences.

This thread is full of schadenfreude about how this nerf effects farmers. It also seems like some would be happy to see farmers go away totally. Influence is constantly being generated in this game from people just playing it. People who are farming are just using the current game mechanics to build a character that is capable of earning the most influence possible efficently. They are not doing anything to exploit the game or taking advantage of other players. The Devs provided the tools, and they made it work for them.

[Haijinx]

11 minutes ago, Crimsonpyre said:

This thread is full of schadenfreude about how this nerf effects farmers. It also seems like some would be happy to see farmers go away totally. Influence is constantly being generated in this game from people just playing it. People who are farming are just using the current game mechanics to build a character that is capable of earning the most influence possible efficently. They are not doing anything to exploit the game or taking advantage of other players. The Devs provided the tools, and they made it work for them.

Im confused by the progression. 

 

There was a mechanic where if people played at level 49 instead of 50 they made almost TWICE as much influence as they would if they played at 50. 

 

This was obviously stupid. 

 

There is no functional difference between a level 49 and 50 character.  

 

It had been originally intended to encourage high level characters to exemp down to play with other players.  Not to farm lots of money.   

 

In MMOs knocking down schemes for players to farm lots of in-game money is a necessary aspect of managing the economy.  

 

So this is a normal fix.  Every MMO ever that survives does things like this.  

 

 

[skoryy]

1 hour ago, Murcielago said:

Ooo that's a good idea, add an increasing influence charge with each subsequent conversion. First conversion: 50k INF, second 100k INF, etc...

but why

[Yomo Kimyata]

28 minutes ago, Crimsonpyre said:

This thread is full of schadenfreude about how this nerf effects farmers. It also seems like some would be happy to see farmers go away totally. Influence is constantly being generated in this game from people just playing it. People who are farming are just using the current game mechanics to build a character that is capable of earning the most influence possible efficently. They are not doing anything to exploit the game or taking advantage of other players. The Devs provided the tools, and they made it work for them.

I have no problem with farmers.  Sometimes I go onto a fire farm, but for me that's not into order to earn inf, but really to just veg out and splode things.  I have no problem with turning off XP in order to earn more inf; why not, they offer the reverse!  I'm frankly not even concerned about "inflation", since if it were going to be a real issue, we'd be a lot closer to the soft cap in all the high demand expensive items, IMO.

 

If there were a loophole that allowed you to sell level 49 IOs for twice the amount of level 50 IOs, and that was not due to some true market forces but rather through an unintended exploit, not only would I not be surprised if they fixed that exploit, but I would be one of the first to log it in Bugs.

 

The only guilty pleasure that, I admit, I take is the threatened rage quitting and declarations that the economy is doomed, DOOMED without the hard work of the double-inf exploit farmers.  It's histrionic and makes me think of flopping in international kickety-ball and the NBA.  I think it's pretty freaking funny.

[Peerless Girl]

43 minutes ago, Crimsonpyre said:

This thread is full of schadenfreude about how this nerf effects farmers. It also seems like some would be happy to see farmers go away totally. Influence is constantly being generated in this game from people just playing it. People who are farming are just using the current game mechanics to build a character that is capable of earning the most influence possible efficently. They are not doing anything to exploit the game or taking advantage of other players. The Devs provided the tools, and they made it work for them.

 

Some would argue that's an exploit. I'd be one of them, so it's probably good decisions are not up to me. 

 

5 minutes ago, skoryy said:

but why

 

To sink Inf out of the economy, obviously.

[Saikochoro]

2 hours ago, Crimsonpyre said:

As opposed to the marketeers taking advantage of the "market stupid", sitting on so many billions they have to come up with creative ways to move it around to store it. Farmers are taking advantage of the games mechanics just like the marketeers. At least the farmers are adding recipes, salvage, and buying those IO's the marketeers are selling. They are not just hoarding what they earn and looking down on the marketeers.

Except marketeers are also supplying high demand items. They may not be generating recipes/IOs, but they are turning trash recipes into desirable IOs.  They do this without adding more influence into the economy. This has been stated many times. This has even been stated by the devs. 

[Saikochoro]

2 hours ago, Murcielago said:

Ooo that's a good idea, add an increasing influence charge with each subsequent conversion. First conversion: 50k INF, second 100k INF, etc...

This would only serve to make things more expensive as less people would do the conversion routine. Converters are not a problem whatsoever. They only help the market. The devs have even stated that they don’t want to discourage conversion as it is very helpful to the market. 
 

There is nothing bad about converters whatsoever. Discouraging conversion would only serve to increase prices, which is counterintuitive to the devs goals. 

[MunkiLord]

21 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

The only guilty pleasure that, I admit, I take is the threatened rage quitting and declarations that the economy is doomed, DOOMED without the hard work of the double-inf exploit farmers.  It's histrionic and makes me think of flopping in international kickety-ball and the NBA.  I think it's pretty freaking funny.

This is the best sentence you've ever written. I too like to laugh at all these things.

[Haijinx]

41 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

The only guilty pleasure that, I admit, I take is the threatened rage quitting and declarations that the economy is doomed, DOOMED without the hard work of the double-inf exploit farmers.  It's histrionic and makes me think of flopping in international kickety-ball and the NBA.  I think it's pretty freaking funny.

DOOMED!!

[Yomo Kimyata]

38 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

This is the best sentence you've ever written. I too like to laugh at all these things.

[Myrmidon]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Accurate.

[Hardship]

The more I see that GIF the funnier it gets!

 

I don't see inflation ever being a problem in this game UNLESS the devs quit seeding the components OR stop allowing purchase of recipes with merits.  There just isn't a way to drive up prices beyond a set amount. Yes, you might find someone that will pay more than they need to for an enhancement, but the point is that you wont' HAVE to. Since the supply is unlimited, there shouldn't be any kind of huge inflation. Stagnation maybe, once everyone gets everything they want for every character they have, but that is a different problem all together.