Homecoming Server Update (April 5th): Nemesis Plots, Contests and Progression

[Jacke]

I remember back on Live reading very early, around Issue 6 or so, that TOs--besides Accuracy and maybe some Endurance Reduction--shouldn't be slotted but sold for Inf to buy DOs at level 12.  The low-level ToHit buff Beginning's Luck when added made this even more so.   Later I regularly had an alt stationed at Yin's Market to buy them sweet lower-level SOs for my toons going from levels 10 to 22.

 

I think better QoL tools for SO use convenience a good idea.  The exact system to settled on will require testing and reflection.

 

SOs are a completely legitimate choice for leveling and to a degree for level 50 play.

 

I'd made a Katana-Fiery Aura Brute for my first 50 as an agricultural specialist.  Took him on all the content anyway as he's a good toon.  Up until a few days ago, over half his enhancements were still SOs, including all his attacks.  Even when farming at +4x8.  It's why I have Rise of the Phoenix in my build, to allow for when things get away from me and the mobs take him down.  But he didn't drop that often.

 

Sure he's more tough now I've got IOs throughout.  Not as tough as he'll be when I get more PvP IOs and especially WO enhancements into his build.

 

But he was completely playable at the highest content with over half of his enhancements as SOs.  Even Linea's brutal 801 AE maps, full of Incarnate killing mobs.  Sure he died several times.  But he also stayed upright a lot and I had fun.

 

Part of that was due to having the benefits from the AT and the primary and secondary powersets to allow play on such tough content.  Part of that was down to me learning how to play the toon and play him well.  And getting a few key IOs and P2W tricks.

 

It takes time and effort to slot even just common IOs for a toon.  And making those common IOs available ready-made at a vendor is a much more major change.  Improving the ease with which SOs can be used is a good alternative.

[Troo]

3 hours ago, skoryy said:

4 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

In COX's case, it's not all development.  It may not be development at all.  Something... changed in COX's social meta during the Years Of Darkness.  It may be due to the changes in the game made to suit a microscopic population.  It may be due to the influence of WoW.  But the current HC social meta is no longer "the journey is the reward", it's shifted radically towards "the game begins at 50".  (I was all but openly mocked for testing Dark Melee in the single digit level during the Page 5 beta - that would never have happened in the OG.)  That grind-and-raid mindset is particularly toxic in CoH because there is little to no endgame content.

To paraphrase, "this is the sixth time we have leveled a theme park MMO character, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it."   Its been sixteen years since 2004, we know all the beats, know all the kill alls and fetch quests, know the metas, and know the feeling of being incredibly underpowered compared to the alts you already have at max level.  I've seen differing attempts at re-inventing leveling - I see you TSW and TESO - but in the end its still all about growing a character when you already have characters fully grown.  We've been there before, frankly we're kinda bored with it, so we say "Get on with it" and hop on the powerlevel train.  It is what it is.

The term 'End Game' is what happened.

 

Powerleveling always had a place, usually with a purpose. "I want to _____"

 

It seems lately, at least to me, folks race to create a T4 50 only to be disappointed.

Honestly..

 

Just say:

'The End'

 

..wanna keep playing, have at it. There was never any End Game, that's a marketing term to suck dollars from dummies who would pay their way there.

[carroto]

One concern I have with the auto-upgrade option for SOs is that it's likely to be more expensive over time than doing it manually.  Maybe that's not a big concern, but it will probably keep me from using it as presented here.  If I'm buying SOs I tend to try to keep my costs down by not buying them at max level, but at one level below.  That way I can try to combine them with my existing enhancements for that +1, which I get for free.

 

Buying at max level and simply replacing what's there is a more expensive option than buying lower level and combining.  If I had the option to one-click buy new SOs at one level below max and auto-combine them, that I would probably use.  In addition to saving inf it would also be satisfying to my inner gambler.

 

The only problem with that would be that some would successfully combine, while others would not.  Meaning that some would turn red before others.  Meaning that I'd have to address the situation manually or use the button earlier than necessary for my other SOs, wasting inf anyway.

 

So unless there were further control, like an option to only upgrade yellow or red SOs, I probably won't be using this feature when it comes out.

[justicebeliever]

7 minutes ago, carroto said:

One concern I have with the auto-upgrade option for SOs is that it's likely to be more expensive over time than doing it manually.  Maybe that's not a big concern, but it will probably keep me from using it as presented here.  If I'm buying SOs I tend to try to keep my costs down by not buying them at max level, but at one level below.  That way I can try to combine them with my existing enhancements for that +1, which I get for free.

 

Buying at max level and simply replacing what's there is a more expensive option than buying lower level and combining.  If I had the option to one-click buy new SOs at one level below max and auto-combine them, that I would probably use.  In addition to saving inf it would also be satisfying to my inner gambler.

 

The only problem with that would be that some would successfully combine, while others would not.  Meaning that some would turn red before others.  Meaning that I'd have to address the situation manually or use the button earlier than necessary for my other SOs, wasting inf anyway.

 

So unless there were further control, like an option to only upgrade yellow or red SOs, I probably won't be using this feature when it comes out.

I think you are right on the money.  Ultimately, this is a feature of convenience, that could cost more than doing it as you suggested.  That being said, it does provide a convenience, that in the lower levels, I would gladly pay for.

[ArchVileTerror]

Honestly, with the other changes that recently hit, that's probably by design . . . 

[Jackanapesink]

Trying to read through this topic, but running into a major problem:

SO = Single origin

IO = Invention origin

TO & DO = ?

 

I can guess, but if I'm wrong I have misunderstood everything.  I even googled them, but to no avail.

 

Triple, and double?

[justicebeliever]

5 minutes ago, Jackanapesink said:

Trying to read through this topic, but running into a major problem:

SO = Single origin

IO = Invention origin

TO & DO = ?

 

I can guess, but if I'm wrong I have misunderstood everything.  I even googled them, but to no avail.

 

Triple, and double?

TO = Training Origin.  Anyone can use them.  They least powerful, and the majority of what you see before lvl 12.  
 

DO = Dual Origin.  Applies to 2 different origins.  I.e. science/mutant.  Better than TO’s, but not as good as SO’s

[EmperorSteele]

12 minutes ago, Jackanapesink said:

Trying to read through this topic, but running into a major problem:

SO = Single origin

IO = Invention origin

TO & DO = ?

 

I can guess, but if I'm wrong I have misunderstood everything.  I even googled them, but to no avail.

 

Triple, and double?

 

TO is Training Origin, and are the first enhancements you'll gain access to normally. They can be slotted by anyone, but usually give abysmal enhancement values (less than 10%).

DOs: Dual-Origin are enhancers that give about half-ish the value of an SO, but can only be slotted by characters who are one of two origins (for instance, an enhancement that gives 16.5% damage but can only be slotted by Science and Technology origin characters). The two origins required are usually "complementary": Sci/Tech, Sci/Mutant, Magic/Natural, etc. You won't find, say, Mutant/Tech or Magic/Science.

Ahh, Ninja'd by Justicebeliever =P

Edited April 8, 2020 by EmperorSteele

[justicebeliever]

1 minute ago, EmperorSteele said:

Ahh, Ninja'd by Justicebeliever =P

I was typing on my phone.  I thought for sure I was going to be ninja’ed

[TK3477]

Personally I think TsO and DOs should really just be removed from the game. Just rename "SOs" as "Origin Enhancements".

[Peerless Girl]

45 minutes ago, TK3477 said:

Personally I think TsO and DOs should really just be removed from the game. Just rename "SOs" as "Origin Enhancements".

 

TOs yes, DOs no. You slot DOs in where TOs used to go, and SOs in where DOs used to go, then you have IOs to go up to later. Removing both would be a mistake. You can still slot up with dropped DOs (or use them for a far better money source than TOs ever were, and it'll help mitigate the other inf changes). While working slowly toward your SOs.

[Noyjitat]

Be nice if you left the nemsis event on untl the end of the month like most events that last an entire month or at the very least put something in to manually spawn it like the zombie invasion. 

 

Its especially hard to catch this event on my many many alts where at certain times of the day not enough are in the zone to spawn the gm.

[Ukase]

17 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

My answer is - copy a character over to the Beta server and find out!

(It should ignore IO's, but it's worth finding out whether there a bug or not.)

I did, but they wiped my characters off. It's easy enough to replace them - but that's time spent I could have been actually playing. Further, the last time I was on, I couldn't test anything because they had disabled the ability to make incarnate components unless you already had the threads from live copied over - which I didn't/don't. 
 

[Grouchybeast]

15 hours ago, justicebeliever said:

I think you are right on the money.  Ultimately, this is a feature of convenience, that could cost more than doing it as you suggested.  That being said, it does provide a convenience, that in the lower levels, I would gladly pay for.

It's basically the SO equivalent of paying Buy it Nao prices the AH.  In either case, you can be patient, take a little more time and save inf, or you can choose to spend more inf to save yourself some time.  It's all a question of which you value most in that moment, time or inf.

[justicebeliever]

Just now, Grouchybeast said:

It's basically the SO equivalent of paying Buy it Nao prices the AH.  In either case, you can be patient, take a little more time and save inf, or you can choose to spend more inf to save yourself some time.  It's all a question of which you value most in that moment, time or inf.

Couldn't of said it better myself.

[Peacemoon]

It depends on whether it is obvious to the uninitiated that they are paying more or not. At least with the AH you are generally fully aware of what route you're choosing. 

[Number Six]

15 hours ago, ArchVileTerror said:

Honestly, with the other changes that recently hit, that's probably by design . . . 

Yes, it is intended to be an influence sink. By being more convenient, players who have inf to burn are encouraged to upgrade more often than strictly necessary in order to keep the enhancements at peak efficiency.

 

Players who don't have inf to burn can still make use if it by waiting until they are even level or yellow/red. Or buy them the old fashioned way to pinch pennies and pick and choose specific enhancements.

 

Alternatively they can buy level 30 generic IOs which will save more in the long run but perhaps not always be as effective (but will be consistent!). Not everyone wants to deal with the AH though, even for something relatively easy, and don't care if they're paying more for the convenience. There are pros and cons to both approaches.

[Rathulfr]

33 minutes ago, Number Six said:

Alternatively they can buy level 30 generic IOs which will save more in the long run but perhaps not always be as effective (but will be consistent!).

This.  The level 27 respec has become a ritual on all my new alts.  That's when I can equip the level 30 common IOs and a few of the select IO sets that have that as the minimum level.  I keep using level 30 common IOs until I get to 50 and am ready for the final build respec.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Rathulfr

[Dark Current]

The SO enhancement drops and upgrade from maintenance screen are great ideas. I'd like to see this go further by removing TOs entirely and replace with additional influence / infamy gain instead, or increase low level IO recipe / salvage drops.

 

This system also doesn't diminish the need to visit stores and vendors because you still need to get the SOs you can upgrade anyway.

 

Speaking of, can you look at the drop rate of various classes of enhancers? Range increase is still considered one of the cornerstone drops and it's practically useless. Meanwhile, endurance mod is a rarer drop when everyone wants those for stamina.

[Rathulfr]

4 minutes ago, Dark Current said:

Speaking of, can you look at the drop rate of various classes of enhancers? Range increase is still considered one of the cornerstone drops and it's practically useless. Meanwhile, endurance mod is a rarer drop when everyone wants those for stamina.

YES, PLEASE!

[justicebeliever]

11 minutes ago, Dark Current said:

Speaking of, can you look at the drop rate of various classes of enhancers? Range increase is still considered one of the cornerstone drops and it's practically useless. Meanwhile, endurance mod is a rarer drop when everyone wants those for stamina.

Also a plus one to that.  The stamina ones are ridiculously hard to get

[ArchVileTerror]

A re-evaluation of which Enhancements count as the Power 10 should probably also take place.

That, or make Range practical and useful in some way.

Or both.

[lemming]

I like this change.   I would play around with the costs a bit to make it a bit more attainable.  (Maybe bring the prices down to maybe +10% of sale cost, but that might work adjusted down as well?)

I'm at the point where I have one character building generic IOs for all my other characters as they level up with the end plan to kit them out with sets once they hit 50.  (Sometimes with a +End Proc on the heavy end users)

 

I do like the aspects of the game that are more work to be made easier, but with sets and such, people can put in work and have something to show for it.

[Herotu]

21 hours ago, Troo said:

The term 'End Game' is what happened.

 

Powerleveling always had a place, usually with a purpose. "I want to _____"

 

It seems lately, at least to me, folks race to create a T4 50 only to be disappointed.

Honestly..

[..]

 

..wanna keep playing, have at it. There was never any End Game, that's a marketing term to suck dollars from dummies who would pay their way there.

I've seen this argument a lot over the years, but I am not buying it. 

 

There's plenty to do at level 50.

 

I find that I tend to abandon my 50s because after that you want a fancy dancy build and that's ... boring i.e. work.

[Peerless Girl]

2 hours ago, Rathulfr said:

This.  The level 27 respec has become a ritual on all my new alts.  That's when I can equip the level 30 common IOs and a few of the select IO sets that have that as the minimum level.  I keep using level 30 common IOs until I get to 50 and am ready for the final build respec.

 

I do mine at 35 IOs (so level 32) but came concept. I find IOs aren't really flat "better" until 35, and also 32 is when you get your final primary powerset power, so it's often a good time for reslotting and checking.

 

2 hours ago, justicebeliever said:

Also a plus one to that.  The stamina ones are ridiculously hard to get

 

2 hours ago, ArchVileTerror said:

A re-evaluation of which Enhancements count as the Power 10 should probably also take place.

That, or make Range practical and useful in some way.

Or both.

 

I agree with both of these things.