Isn't it WAY overdue for a change?

[MTeague]

8 hours ago, Lines said:

Vectored knockback could give Gale the chance to knock-towards. If you can use your own character as a positional anchor, crowd control with Gale would be amazing.

 

Coupled with Hurricane, a stormy character could control the positions of groups of enemies like nobody's business.

Now this idea I like.  Except I'd rather use a click point and my target.  

 Currently, Gale goes FROM you straight outward at your target.

 

but if It were targetted, like Freezing Rain, I could click a spot to the LEFT of my target and have it blow them sideways to the RIGHT.

Or click a spot behind my target and have the Gale come at them from behind, and shove them towards me.  

Or click a spot in front of my target and it would shove them straight back like it does now.

 

admittedly, this might slow down it's useage... it would no longer be click and it fires. 

there would be a time cost to choosing a click-location for your Gale to start.

But it would make the power very versitile.

[Drazah Krad]

Gale is a great power with 2 slkts as mentioned. KB->KD and either recharge proc or -res. 

 

You can get quite a few dmg procs in it if you really like it thematically. It breaks alpha strikes and gives you soft control. 

 

I use it for a way to cover squishy heroes if surrounded.  

 

It's a level 1 power that keeps it utility and doesn't need many slots to stay useful.

[Riverdusk]

I like it as well and find it does have separate uses from hurricane for me anyway.  If anything just remove the accuracy penalty, not seeing the point of it.  Also makes no sense conceptionally, how hard is it to hit something with a huge cone of wind anyway?  If anything it should have an accuracy bonus. it's the shotgun blast of storm powers. 😄

 

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by Riverdusk

[roleki]

On 4/25/2020 at 12:02 PM, SwitchFade said:

Really smart controllers.... Generally skip this.

 

Even with KB to KD, it's far outperformed by other choices.

 

Leave it T1, as a change is unwarranted. It's a good newby starting power, with some niche io use later.

 

No vote on change to later selection. Yes vote on change from KB to KD.

It's kind of hard to skip though, being the power you have to take when you roll a /Storm.  With a KB>KD, it's a decent FF+Rech mule what hits fairly regularly.

[Eldyem]

My only issue with Gale currently is that it has an accuracy penalty that I really don't think makes any sense on it, both thematically - you're telling me you can dodge a huge gust of wind? Easily? - and mechanically - knockback is not SO strong to warrant missing more and is substantially worsened by misses breaking up packs.

I'm not a big fan of it being mandatory, but I think I have a substantially different conceptualization of "Storm Summoning" from many people in this thread and wouldn't find O2 Boost to be an acceptable replacement for concept.

[Solarverse]

On 4/24/2020 at 4:29 PM, MTeague said:

 but I get that community consensus considers it an operatic tragedy if someone has to move like, 3 feet, to continue with a melee attack.

I'm going to buy you a new tape measure.

[florian2]

On 4/24/2020 at 4:46 PM, Blastit said:

What is Gale's actual place in the power set? If you want push enemies around, isn't Hurricane generally better? It requires fewer slots, doesn't need a to-hit check and applies a handy debuff as well.

Silas?

[Chance Jackson]

On 4/24/2020 at 8:57 PM, Crysis said:

This.

 

Or if I’m really wishing.

 

Give all powers with Knock-anything- a toggle switch in settings to let player choose for Back, Up, or Down.

 

No IO’s needed.

this, i'd take out the sudden acceleration proc I put into one of the PPP pets that does knockback & at least one of my AOEs if I had such a toggle

[Hopestar]

Why not fix the real problem instead and:

Let us choose between 2 Secondary powers like we do for Primary powers.

[Herotu]

On 4/25/2020 at 10:12 AM, Lines said:

Vectored knockback could give Gale the chance to knock-towards. If you can use your own character as a positional anchor, crowd control with Gale would be amazing.

 

You mean, for example, teleport and then gale... so Storm Summoning/Martial Combat? What archetype can do that?

Edited May 6, 2020 by Herotu

[Lines]

21 minutes ago, Herotu said:

You mean, for example, teleport and then gale... so Storm Summoning/Martial Combat? What archetype can do that?

You wouldn't need to teleport (though that combo would be cool).

 

By vectored knockback, I mean to say that entities being knocked are made to follow a specific trajectory rather than just flung into the air away from the player until they collide with something. We saw this being tested on April Fools with the brawl jape sending enemies in random directions. (As opposed to always away from players).

 

So a vectored knockback trajectory could start at the enemy's current location and end at the player. If gale adopted that behaviour, storm characters could pull group of enemies towards them. Paired with a tank to catch the aggro, they'd be a herding superpower.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Lines

[Naraka]

On 4/28/2020 at 8:39 PM, Eldyem said:

My only issue with Gale currently is that it has an accuracy penalty that I really don't think makes any sense on it, both thematically - you're telling me you can dodge a huge gust of wind? Easily? - and mechanically - knockback is not SO strong to warrant missing more and is substantially worsened by misses breaking up packs.

I'm not a big fan of it being mandatory, but I think I have a substantially different conceptualization of "Storm Summoning" from many people in this thread and wouldn't find O2 Boost to be an acceptable replacement for concept.

How many people go around gliding along the ground on their tip toes waiting for the next slight breeze to knock them to the ground?  I'm certain you've been hit with plenty of strong winds that only caused you to waiver at most.  Some might argue that is "knockback resistance" but I'd just argue that balance, as a concept, both realistically and conceived in a roleplaying sense is more fluid than the whole mez protection/resistance allows.  Merely the act of separating your feet into a wider stance is hardly "KB protection".

 

Accuracy is likely a mechanic to emulate that the air, as a fluid, will strike people differently thus have different effects from knocking them down to touching them but having no affect or even completely missing due to other means like shields, windbreaks or interacting differently with matter.  The only other method to emulate that would be giving Gale that enhanced accuracy bonus because "it's air" but only a chance of KB when it hits and I nor anyone here would ever want that.

 

That all said, I'm not arguing to keep Gale's accuracy penalty, I'm arguing of the concept of how Gale functions now against arguments made that try to explain that it somehow "makes no sense" that Gale has low accuracy.

[golstat2003]

Gale is fine as is. I would not mind if it had better accuracy. But other than that I disagree with the OP.

[Eldyem]

On 5/6/2020 at 9:21 AM, Naraka said:

How many people go around gliding along the ground on their tip toes waiting for the next slight breeze to knock them to the ground?  I'm certain you've been hit with plenty of strong winds that only caused you to waiver at most.  Some might argue that is "knockback resistance" but I'd just argue that balance, as a concept, both realistically and conceived in a roleplaying sense is more fluid than the whole mez protection/resistance allows.  Merely the act of separating your feet into a wider stance is hardly "KB protection".

 

Accuracy is likely a mechanic to emulate that the air, as a fluid, will strike people differently thus have different effects from knocking them down to touching them but having no affect or even completely missing due to other means like shields, windbreaks or interacting differently with matter.  The only other method to emulate that would be giving Gale that enhanced accuracy bonus because "it's air" but only a chance of KB when it hits and I nor anyone here would ever want that.

 

That all said, I'm not arguing to keep Gale's accuracy penalty, I'm arguing of the concept of how Gale functions now against arguments made that try to explain that it somehow "makes no sense" that Gale has low accuracy.

The problem is that Gale is not a slight breeze. It's a very visible burst of air, and the knockback sends things hit flying. If this was a knockdown power, I think there'd be a legitimate argument that what's happening is that some individuals are braced for the push, but the knockback in Gale is greater than that of most of Energy Blast, and only a little weaker than Tornado. The accuracy element isn't emulating this post-hoc explanation, it's a balancing measure because the original devs thought knockback was quite a bit more useful than it actually turned out to be. And I think it's time we removed that balancing measure, because Gale just isn't that strong.

[VV]

On 4/24/2020 at 3:31 PM, damnimgood said:

Isn't way overdue for this NOT to be a starting power?

No. 

 

Next?

[MTeague]

Gale actually coudl be devastatingly strong.  Get a pair of Storm Defenders on the same team.  Get them used to alternating casts of Gale.  They could Chain-KD a giant pile of mobs leaving them 100% completely helpless and unable to respond in any meaningful way, holding them helpless while the rest of the team kills them.  KB/KD as a form of perma-able AE Hold.  And you could do that from a very early lvl if you had decent accuracy, all the way to level 50.

 

Necessary? Heck no. And there's probably better stronger ways to trivialize mobs now.  But I do think that's what the original devs were thinking of, back in the day.  Stormies Gale'ing things into a corner, and using Hurricane to keep them there.

[Eldyem]

2 minutes ago, MTeague said:

Gale actually coudl be devastatingly strong.  Get a pair of Storm Defenders on the same team.  Get them used to alternating casts of Gale.  They could Chain-KD a giant pile of mobs leaving them 100% completely helpless and unable to respond in any meaningful way, holding them helpless while the rest of the team kills them.  KB/KD as a form of perma-able AE Hold.  And you could do that from a very early lvl if you had decent accuracy, all the way to level 50.

 

Necessary? Heck no. And there's probably better stronger ways to trivialize mobs now.  But I do think that's what the original devs were thinking of, back in the day.  Stormies Gale'ing things into a corner, and using Hurricane to keep them there.

I would agree that that's absolutely what the original devs were thinking of, but the game, at launch, was also occasionally called "City of Statutes" because of the general overpoweredness of AoE mezzes. I would say that, if this game didn't have other sources of mezzes (how many other MMOs have mezzes even remotely near as widely available and spammable as CoH?) KB could have been a problem, but by launch I think it was already well past that point, and the accuracy penalty feels a little off - but Gale is such a "love it or hate it" power that I don't think anyone has really championed that cause.

[Naraka]

20 hours ago, Eldyem said:

The problem is that Gale is not a slight breeze. It's a very visible burst of air, and the knockback sends things hit flying. If this was a knockdown power, I think there'd be a legitimate argument that what's happening is that some individuals are braced for the push, but the knockback in Gale is greater than that of most of Energy Blast, and only a little weaker than Tornado. The accuracy element isn't emulating this post-hoc explanation, it's a balancing measure because the original devs thought knockback was quite a bit more useful than it actually turned out to be. And I think it's time we removed that balancing measure, because Gale just isn't that strong.

The "slight breeze" was in conjunction with people floating around on their tip toes which likely *would* be knocked over by said slight breeze.

 

The difference between a Knockdown and a Knockback don't have any prevalence on the strength of said power but the power itself and its purpose.  So the magnitude of knockback isn't really being discussed in my post, it's the accuracy.

 

Wind isn't some wall of force (there's a different power for that).  Tornadoes can completely shred a house but leave a neighboring house completely untouched.

 

As for my explanation being a post-hoc, I will restate that I'm explaining why it *CAN* make sense in the face of arguments saying it makes *NO* sense.  I'm sorry if you made an absolutist statement that I completely destroyed but I tried to be civil about it.  Now, you can decide to rescind your argument about it making no sense and continue advocating for the removal of the accuracy penalty (I have no problem with that) but it you decide to double down and state it makes no sense and/or Gale needs not only it's accuracy penalty removed but get a bonus AND get extra buffs ontop of that, well...I'll just have to argue the contrary.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Naraka

[damnimgood]

My mind hasn't changed but,I love this conversation. Read every post. 

 

THANK YOU.

[Communistpenguin]

On 4/24/2020 at 6:19 PM, Peacemoon said:

If I could make one change to Storm it would be to make o2 a PBAoE heal. Maybe with some twist like Time, but allows it to heal the user. I noticed there was an AoE o2 ingame for mobs, level 50 banished pantheon I believe? 

As for Gale it’s awesome. It’s a large cone guaranteed knockback. Slot it for knockdown if you want, but the 100% chance to knock is great and highly effective soft control - which storm is great at.

I would hate this, I like being able to heal a teammate across the map. As for gale, Id say just switch its place with o2?