Hasten: Make it Inherent, or get rid of it?

[Abysmalyxia]

Just now, Coyotedancer said:

Personally, I have no issue with Hasten. I use it on a few of my characters, but far from All... or even Most.

 

I just don't think it's as broken as all that. So... sorry. But I'm not going anywhere with you. 

 

/jranger

Imagine there was a pool power that upped your resistance by 70%.

Imagine there was a pool power that upped your damage by 70%.

Imagine there was a pool power that upped your accuracy by 70%.

 

Then imagine you showing up on these forums and telling people that you think that shit is perfectly balanced. Do that and then hopefully you can understand why I'm making the puzzled black guy face dot gif while reading your post.

[Solarverse]

20 minutes ago, Abysmalyxia said:

Every single power in the entire game that utilizes recharge must be balanced around the existence of this single pool power

Apparently you have not seen my WP/EM build.

[Greycat]

1 minute ago, Abysmalyxia said:

"There are about 60k characters at level 50. About 50k of them use Hasten." <=Is this a lie? Seems legit.

First, the post was made six months ago. There are more characters at 50.

Second, unless it's someone else using the same name - I know Steampunkette. I like her. But she's also indicated as a member, not a dev, so the question still comes - where did that number come from? 

[Monos King]

I mean without taking any sides...you do realize this will 100% not happen right? I think the more effective way to go about this argument is to make a case that rechargee times across the board are inherently too low, and that the recharge centric meta is the product of flawed game design. 

 

@AbysmalyxiaI could see something like "increase powers base recharge scaling to your level" similar to how damage and debuff res works going smoother with the community, and one of your supporting reasons being "diminishing the relevance (not need) of hasten". Then you could suggest lowering hastens buff from there.

 

Like, that's just an example. But outright removing or vacuumously changing hasten is just 100% totally never actually going to ever fly. You're new to the forums so I'm letting you know but yeah. Not happening.

[Haijinx]

Just now, Greycat said:

First, the post was made six months ago. There are more characters at 50.

Second, unless it's someone else using the same name - I know Steampunkette. I like her. But she's also indicated as a member, not a dev, so the question still comes - where did that number come from? 

There are stats released periodically about this stuff.  

 

Powersets, ATs and so on 

 

I assumed from there.

[Coyotedancer]

1 minute ago, Abysmalyxia said:

Imagine there was a pool power that upped your resistance by 70%.

Imagine there was a pool power that upped your damage by 70%.

Imagine there was a pool power that upped your accuracy by 70%.

 

Then imagine you showing up on these forums and telling people that you think that shit is perfectly balanced. Do that and then hopefully you can understand why I'm making the puzzled black guy face dot gif while reading your post.

 

You're just here to stir up the anthill, aren't you?

If so... well done. You've gotten a lot of replies to your thread. 

[Abysmalyxia]

1 minute ago, Monos King said:

I mean without taking any sides...you do realize this will 100% not happen right? I think the more effective way to go about this argument is to make a case that rechargee times across the board are inherently too low, and that the recharge centric meta is the product of flawed game design. 

 

@AbysmalyxiaI could see something like "increase powers base recharge scaling to your level" similar to how damage and debuff res works going smoother with the community, and one of your supporting reasons being "diminishing the relevance (not need) of hasten". Then you could suggest lowering hastens buff from there.

 

Like, that's just an example. But outright removing or vacuumously changing hasten is just 100% totally never actually going to ever fly. You're new to the forums so I'm letting you know but yeah. Not happening.

They said the same thing about Fitness becoming inherent yet wouldn't you like at that.

[Abysmalyxia]

3 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

Apparently you have not seen my WP/EM build.

If only we were all the pastmaster you are at the online video game all our sorrows would be solved.

[Abysmalyxia]

Just now, Coyotedancer said:

 

You're just here to stir up the anthill, aren't you?

If so... well done. You've gotten a lot of replies to your thread. 

No, I made my position quite clear from the beginning. I want to bring balance to the game.

[Abysmalyxia]

3 minutes ago, Monos King said:

I mean without taking any sides...you do realize this will 100% not happen right? I think the more effective way to go about this argument is to make a case that rechargee times across the board are inherently too low, and that the recharge centric meta is the product of flawed game design. 

 

@AbysmalyxiaI could see something like "increase powers base recharge scaling to your level" similar to how damage and debuff res works going smoother with the community, and one of your supporting reasons being "diminishing the relevance (not need) of hasten". Then you could suggest lowering hastens buff from there.

 

Like, that's just an example. But outright removing or vacuumously changing hasten is just 100% totally never actually going to ever fly. You're new to the forums so I'm letting you know but yeah. Not happening.

The issue isn't the current recharge values as most of the game is balanced around hasten already. It's the requirement that people take the power to begin with. It creates an enormous gulf in playability.

 

That's not a position a pool power should occupy.

[Monos King]

6 minutes ago, Abysmalyxia said:

They said the same thing about Fitness becoming inherent yet wouldn't you like at that.

It's a little bit different. I could actually see hasten becoming inherent. It's a very different suggestion from removing a power, although the 70% suggestion you gave is practically the same. You're fighting a losing battle, but power to you. I'll be watching the ground shake from my luxury suite.

 

Oh and if you play masterminds you should check out my most recent suggestions thread found here. 

Edited April 9, 2020 by Monos King

[Greycat]

There is absolutely *zero* requirement for hasten.

 

If that's the position you're starting off with, *you're starting from a faulty position.*

 

I've played this since I3 to shutdown on live, and now more time. I've built literally hundreds of characters. Hasten has been needed on absolutely zero of them. When it *has* been taken, it's been a "Well, this would be nice" power, and has never been perma'd - I don't perma anything. Something I've stated repeatedly elsewhere.

 

If Hasten were a requirement, it would mean characters would not be playable. Know how many of those hundreds were unplayable? I'll give you a hint. First syllable - sounds like a striped horse with a woman's foundational garment removed. Second syllable - what you do to get places with a rowboat.

 

Now, some *builds* use hasten, yes. If you want to perma things, hasten is useful, yes. All of those things are *personal choices.* Absolutely none are required. And they affect my game *not at all* that others have those builds. If you feel like you're not "measuring up," that's on you, not Hasten (or Sprint or Brawl or Burn or any other power.)

[Darkneblade]

If you don't want to pick that power that's your problem. It is free power pick so you should at least sacrifice 1 power slot for it. 

19 minutes ago, Abysmalyxia said:

Imagine there was a pool power that upped your resistance by 70%.

Imagine there was a pool power that upped your damage by 70%.

Imagine there was a pool power that upped your accuracy by 70%.

They are not the same. Recharge by itself doesn't bring anything to game or even do anything on its own.

Lets say you pick build up you put recharge ios. Then you use hasten. Normally power that should be recharged in 1 minute is recharging at 30 seconds earlier. This by itself not a big problem even if you perma build up same instances never stack. Only thing you can do is refresh the duration which is click hungry. It is looking at clicking skills at this point really.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Darkneblade

[MTeague]

If I was the developers (Which I am not), I would immediately deny any request that starts with "No reasonable person can possibly disagree", on basic principle.

 

[EDIT:  and the giant font does it no favors, either.]

Edited April 9, 2020 by MTeague

[Naraka]

I find it interesting that a lot of replies seem to lean toward "don't nerf hasten!" but if you actually read the OP, they are asking, basically, to have perma hasten inherent to the game instead which is most certainly NOT a nerf.

[Yomo Kimyata]

33 minutes ago, Abysmalyxia said:

Which would be a perfectly workable solution. I don't oppose keeping the current recharge times because the game is already balanced around the reality of everyone having hasten. My issue is that it creates a staggering gulf in power output between those who have it and those who do not. No pool power should have that kind of impact.

god, I hope not.  I can't stand the rebalancing for the lowest common denominator.

[itaalh]

It’s a non-competitive PVE game.

don’t take hasten yourself

problem solved

[Haijinx]

29 minutes ago, Abysmalyxia said:

No, I made my position quite clear from the beginning. I want to bring balance to the game.

Some of your posts seem to argue for the Anthill take though.

[Widower]

PSA: please, don't use the words raping and children together at any time for just about any reason. It's simply not necessary on this forum. (Also, as always, resist the urge to gnaw off other posters' faces, but that's something of a given at this point, yes?)

[Solarverse]

I would like to take a brief moment and point out a couple of things.

 

There are other factors at play here. If you take a look at how Hasten affects a power, you will notice that you are not getting anywhere near 70% recharge from Hasten. Let's take a look at something with a high recharge value such as (*pulls up Hero Designer* ... *looks up the first archetype and primary power within that archetype*) Rain of Arrows. Rain of Arrows has a 60 second recharge. Half of 60 is 30. If I were actually getting 70% recharge to Rain of Arrows, that would put me at 18 seconds for recharge time. Let's see what happens when I take Hasten into this build and activate Hasten. Hmmmm, interesting. I am only getting Rain of Arrows down to 35.29 seconds. You are actually closer to 40% recharge bonus for hasten by actual percentages.

You can actually learn a great deal about this here...

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Recharge

 

This will help you understand that Hasten does not grant anywhere near 70%, but rather a portion of 70%. You are only getting just over a little of half of that value.

[CabooseCC]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

Large text does not make an opinion more right.

Personally I don't care if people take hasten or not, don't think it needs changing, and have zero builds with perma-anything and few that took hasten, even with hundreds of characters on live.

And honestly, so what if one player is at "an advantage" over another? The only place that makes a difference is PVP, PVPers know about it and work around it. I'm not in competition with anyone else.

Hasten is fine. Nerf font size.

I heart this. 😄

[Haijinx]

10 minutes ago, Solarverse said:

I would like to take a brief moment and point out a couple of things.

 

There are other factors at play here. If you take a look at how Hasten affects a power, you will notice that you are not getting anywhere near 70% recharge from Hasten. Let's take a look at something with a high recharge value such as (*pulls up Hero Designer* ... *looks up the first archetype and primary power within that archetype*) Rain of Arrows. Rain of Arrows has a 60 second recharge. Half of 60 is 30. If I were actually getting 70% recharge to Rain of Arrows, that would put me at 18 seconds for recharge time. Let's see what happens when I take Hasten into this build and activate Hasten. Hmmmm, interesting. I am only getting Rain of Arrows down to 35.29 seconds. You are actually closer to 40% recharge bonus for hasten by actual percentages.

You can actually learn a great deal about this here...

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Recharge

 

This will help you understand that Hasten does not grant anywhere near 70%, but rather a portion of 70%. You are only getting just over a little of half of that value.

Isn't that the case for all recharge bonuses though?  

 

 

[Haijinx]

I worry the font size thing is my fault.  Lol.  I used it for one word as snark in the other hasten thread ...

 

Then we got this mess ...

 

 

[@T3h Ish]

1 hour ago, Abysmalyxia said:

A pool power that is placed into the build of virtually every high level player in the game is broken.

I suppose we'll need to work in Tough, Weave, Maneuvers, Tactics into being inherent too, since practically everyone takes them, or removing them from the game and balancing powers with higher values to start and modifying enemies to work with these new values, or lowering enemy values  / accuracy / ToHit , etc to compensate.

Granted they did this for Fitness, but literally 99.9% of the player base took it, and is the entire basis of how a character works with endurance management and HP. You don't -need- hasten, it's just nice to have.

I can't say i'd be for removing Hasten, or asking the developers to rework the entire game around it not existing, or rolling it into a inherent.

The amount of effort needed, as opposed to new content, or fixing things like Trick Arrow, Super Strength's Rage and the fact that it props up the otherwise incredibly weak set, the crash, Energy Melee having one AoE if you aren't a Stalker-- is preferable than finding a way to make the game not function without hasten or with hasten as an inherent, even if it was necessary to do.

[Solarverse]

4 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Isn't that the case for all recharge bonuses though?  

 

 

Yes sir!  🙂