Hasten: Make it Inherent, or get rid of it?

[Indystruck]

Solution 3: No.

[MunkiLord]

8 minutes ago, Indystruck said:

Solution 3: No.

Solution 4: Write in MunkiLord for every race in the next election. 

[Oubliette_Red]

12 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

Solution 4: Write in MunkiLord for every race in the next election. 

Solution 5: See Solution 4.

[SwitchFade]

7 hours ago, Abysmalyxia said:

No reasonable person thinks Hasten should be kept as is and anyone who argues to do so is merely arguing to keep their current *build* as is, indifferent to the damage it causes to the game itself.

 

Let's examine the reality of Hasten: Every single power in the entire game that utilizes recharge must be balanced around the existence of this single pool power. Read that sentence again.

 

Now tell me you think that is sane. That it qualifies as good game design. Tell me you're going to argue in favor of that status quo.

 

You're going to tell me that a player in "the know" who knows how to make a single power permanent, giving themselves a SEVENTY PERCENT universal reduction in recharge time for every single power they have isn't at a significant advantage over one who does not? There's no other ability in the game that carries that kind of influence, certainly not any pool power.

 

There's no reasonable case to be made for keeping hasten as it is. None.

 

SOLUTION 1:

Reduce recharge times across the board by 70%, essentially granting everyone the perma haste they already want. It won't significantly alter game balance because arguably the majority of players do this already anyway and those who don't will be happy to see the change. In essence those who depend on hasten will see no real loss (and will gain a few slots and a power back) while those who don't have it will be brought more up to par.

 

SOLUTION 2:

Change the Swiftness inherent power to accept recharge reduction enhancements that reduce recharge globally. This would demand greater fine tuning on the part of the developers as well as requiring some kind of investment on the part of the player while not leaving those unaware of the situation so far behind as to create an unbreachable gulf.

 

Hard no vote. Sorry.

 

Also, your choice of text size options was questionable.

 

And, your data was unconvincing, very sorry.

 

Yeah.

[Galaxy Brain]

4 hours ago, AerialAssault said:

Did Hasten kick your dog? Are you okay? Do you need help?

No but it sped up the second kick

Edited April 10, 2020 by Galaxy Brain

[Solarverse]

I would give anything to see the statistics on players who ask for nerfs and actually get the games nerfed, and how long they actually play the game. I can't help but imagine somebody who starts a game, then within a single year, go to the forums and start demanding nerfs, then within a year leave that very game after they get board with the nerfed version of the game that they themselves helped to create while leaving everyone else who has been here the entire time left with a game that lost something they once loved due to these nerfs.

I'm willing to bet the statistics on this would surprise a lot of people.

 

Too bad one doesn't exist.

Edited April 10, 2020 by Solarverse

[Myrmidon]

9 hours ago, Haijinx said:

I worry the font size thing is my fault.  Lol.  I used it for one word as snark in the other hasten thread ...

 

Then we got this mess ...

 

 

 

[Parabola]

It's just a no whichever way you look at it I'm afraid.

 

OP this really isn't the way to address a subject either. Starting a topic by the text equivalent of shouting that anyone who disagrees with what you are about to say is wrong is just going to annoy people. I'm not sure how new you are around here but this community is full of people who not only know the mechanics of this game inside and out but who bring all sorts of knowledge from the outside world. There are many developers and analysts and other seriously qualified people playing this game for fun. It is always better to approach any topic with humility and work under the assumption that someone else may know a lot more about it than you.

Edited April 10, 2020 by parabola

[Zepp]

As I posted in another thread. I've been using Hasten since before it was popular (the pre-customization animation was a major deterrent, as well as the fact that +Recharge is more of a meta in Homecoming than I remember it being pre-apocalypse). That being said, only two of my 19 current builds have Hasten. That is because most builds are better off without it. On the other hand, making Hasten a toggle (I believe this would make it around 50% recharge) or an auto (I believe this would make it around 30-40% recharge) would be a major hit for one of those two builds.

 

Your first proposal would be a huge undertaking and would be essentially the same as making it an auto, so basically a 40% global recharge, would hit many sets harder than others, particularly Fenders and Trollers. Your second proposal would not be as large of an undertaking, but would require a new type of enhancement, take more slots from the builds that need it, cut movement speed for many players, and probably be a 20% global recharge, making it hit even harder than your first proposal.

 

The reason that most people take Hasten, to be perfectly frank, is more social than mechanical. It's like procmeister builds.

 

Also, Combat Jumping would probably rank higher in popularity than Hasten. Furthermore, Pool Powers have always played a strong role in CoH. Almost all players used to have to calculate their builds around getting Swift, Health, & Stamina (most took Hurdle as well), grabbing a travel power (pre-Ninja Run), and Combat Jumping. So basically 5-6 of your 20 powers were decided before you even picked up a primary and secondary power set, all from the power pools.

Basically, what I am saying is that because this change would hit Trollers & Defenders harder than most other ATs, and Doms pretty hard too, and because there is no mechanical answer to a social "problem", it is not a good idea to nerf Hasten.

[Blastit]

3 hours ago, Solarverse said:

I would give anything to see the statistics on players who ask for nerfs and actually get the games nerfed, and how long they actually play the game. I can't help but imagine somebody who starts a game, then within a single year, go to the forums and start demanding nerfs, then within a year leave that very game after they get board with the nerfed version of the game that they themselves helped to create while leaving everyone else who has been here the entire time left with a game that lost something they once loved due to these nerfs.

I'm willing to bet the statistics on this would surprise a lot of people.

 

Too bad one doesn't exist.

That scenario sounds like wishful thinking to prove that you love the game more than others and are therefore morally superior.

[TraumaTrain]

/jtraumatrain

[TechbotAlpha]

Ultimatum statement in the very first line, in obnoxious capitals and not-even-passive aggression.

 

Nah, thanks. Jog on.

[Noyjitat]

Solution: we’ll nerf hasten only for accounts associated with the ip address of this thread starter.

[Corruption]

20 hours ago, Abysmalyxia said:

A pool power that is placed into the build of virtually every high level player in the game is broken.

Super Speed and Combat Jumping are in every single one of my high level builds, those who don't have those powers are at a disadvantage. Lets nerf those while we're at it if that's your justification.

[Burnt Toast]

Someone got mod-smacked 😉

 

You obviously haven't thought this through or done the math - please see other posts of people who have.

 

No.

I know I didn't increase my font size, but my statements still have merit. 

[Noyjitat]

20 hours ago, Abysmalyxia said:

A pool power that is placed into the build of virtually every high level player in the game is broken.

No thats just being smart with your build.
 

next you’ll say the same thing about tough and weave. 
 

then you’ll move onto steadfast and gladiators armor procs

 

then you’ll move onto leadership pool.

[Rathulfr]

1 hour ago, Noyjitat said:

No thats just being smart with your build.
 

next you’ll say the same thing about tough and weave. 
 

then you’ll move onto steadfast and gladiators armor procs

 

then you’ll move onto leadership pool.

 

First they came for the AE farmers, but I said nothing, because I was not a AE farmer.

Then they came for the TW/Bio Brutes, but I said nothing, because I was not a TW/Bio Brute.

Then they came for Hasten, and I complained about it using large fonts...

 

(with apologies to Martin Niemöller)

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by Rathulfr

[Infinitum]

 

Better than a jranger.

[SwitchFade]

4 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

 

Better than a jranger.

Nice.

 

/Jwalker is my new jranger

[SwitchFade]

I just used jwalker in a Tank aggro thread in suggestions!

 

And so it goes...

[Alpha-One]

An interesting stance, but you have failed to explain how exactly it affects "every single aspect of the game". Considering Hasten has no effect on Incarnate powers, you're already wrong on that part. There are many aspects of the game that are not affected by Hasten at all. So my question to you is, how does its existence negatively affect YOUR gameplay?

[Black Zot]

Solution 6: Go pound sand, OP.  And take your nerfherding with you.

[thunderforce]

On 4/9/2020 at 8:45 PM, MTeague said:

If I was the developers (Which I am not), I would immediately deny any request that starts with "No reasonable person can possibly disagree", on basic principle.

No reasonable person could possibly disagree with that. 🙂

 

(re the OP, I think Hasten does need a pretty serious nerf and hence I wish they'd decided to argue for the other side, because "anyone who argues to do so is merely arguing to keep their current *build* as is" is a perfect example of poisoning the well and an excellent way to make people dig their heels in.)

Edited April 16, 2020 by thunderforce

[tidge]

On 4/9/2020 at 3:00 PM, Abysmalyxia said:

No reasonable person thinks Hasten should be kept as is and anyone who argues to do so is merely arguing to keep their current *build* as is, indifferent to the damage it causes to the game itself.

 

 

Here I come to argue that I want to keep Hasten as is for builds I have yet to make, but you have proven to me that I don't exist. I donate all my Panacea procs to the game to heal the damage I was going to do, along with a Scaling Damage Resistance IO.

 

/em puff_of_logic

[Blastit]

On 4/10/2020 at 6:06 PM, Noyjitat said:

No thats just being smart with your build.
 

next you’ll say the same thing about tough and weave. 
 

then you’ll move onto steadfast and gladiators armor procs

 

then you’ll move onto leadership pool.

"That can't be true because if it is then the next thing you'll do is so-and-so" is a bad argument. Maybe it is poor design that everyone takes Tough and Weave, maybe the Leadership pool presents design problems, maybe the IO system itself is a design problem, maybe what power pools are meant to really do should be investigated. You're just assuming that the present system must be kept as it is. Every question of design is best approached with an open mind and an honest examination of your premises and goals.

 

Never mind that humans can in fact just stop at some arbitrary point because they feel like it. The HC team could decide that they want Hasten to function as-is but be a final tier power to reward those who dedicate themselves to Super Speed, they could decide that the Leadership pool is a problem but they don't have a good solution and they could decide that the Fighting pool is fine as it is.