Critical Strikes +50% crit rate IO misconceptions.

[Sgt. Terminus]

Or if you have Fiery Aura, just put the proc in Burn and profit.   Burn is a very weird power, it doesn't crit, and even though it says it hits five targets, it really only hits 4 enemies max from all my testing,  I believe it is because you are always one of the targets, maybe because it grants immob protection, I don't know.  Anyway, you are always getting to proc off at least 2 targets and can even proc it with no one around for a snipe or fireball at range perhaps (makes those Blasters envious of your crits).  I know everyone talks about the runners from Burn but with my Ice/Fire/Blaze, it is Fiery Embrace, Build Up, Burn(with the proc), Fireball (1 sec activation), Freezing Touch on a boss (1 sec activation), and then Frozen Aura.   After that, pretty much nothing left to run.   You will occasionally have an Lt on the outside of the spawn or if there is another boss that you will need to run them down, but since you can have Burn in your attack chain, you can repeat and show them they can run but you can't hide.  I tried many other things with my build such as Shadow Meld, the Hybrid with the taunt aura but once I switched to all damage (Musculature and Assault), Burn works very well, not needing Ice Patch much at all anymore.  Everything just melts and freezes.   I am soft capped to S/L and Melee but Fiery Aura still has a lot of holes but embracing Burn and maximizing the very reliable Crit Bonus window has got me playing him again. 

[Sovera]

15 hours ago, Latex said:

I put mine in Katana's Lotus Drops (The AOE) it seems to proc more often in that slot. I typically use; Buildup > Lotus Drops > Golden Dragonfly > Soaring Dragon, not sure if this is optimal though.

Only in the sense that you are not using Lotus Drops when doing single target. Fighting an AV or even a boss. Are you using your AoE? I think the answer is not, so the proc sits not used. Place it instead in something you will be using all the time. For me it was Avalanche. Be it ST or AoE I'd be spamming Avalanche.

[Murcielago]

On 5/21/2020 at 4:11 PM, hejtmane said:

I moved mine to Midnight Grasp and my ST dps went up a tic over having it in smite

That's where I have mine.

[Duck-Smokes-Quack]

On 5/22/2020 at 5:03 PM, Uun said:

On my MA/Inv I have it slotted in Cobra Strike. It goes off pretty regularly. On my Rad/Rad I have it slotted in Ground Zero. While GZ has an admittedly long recharge and is likely losing me some DPS, it allows me to run into a big group and hit Fusion > Ground Zero > (proc) > Atom Smasher. This leaves nothing standing but a boss or two at low health. I can repeat this about every 40 seconds.

IMO you should move it to Storm Kick since its the Gamblers Cut equivialnt for Martial Arts and that was CAK or CS can benifit from the +crit chance

[Yomo Kimyata]

Apologies for the necro post, but this seemed like one of the better discussions I've found on the Scrapper boards on this topic.  I've been remaking a number of my early 50s, some of which are scrappers, and I freely admit I didn't use ATOs on them at all since I was unfamiliar with them in early 2019.  Now I'm trying to squeeze out some better performance and figuring out preferred placement for the Scrappers Strike proc.  In this case, I'm focusing on a BS/Inv scrapper.  

 

Two things come to mind for *my* play style (which is usually a wide variety of solo missions at +3-4/x8, so lots of mobs, occasional AVs):

 

1.  I like to "proc on command".  As @Bopper states:  

On 5/21/2020 at 5:44 PM, Bopper said:

 

If you're using an AoE attack, you will have to factor in the Area Factor into that calculation, but you'll also have a chance to proc from multiple targets. This last point should be clarified as the original post made mention that the chance to not proc is atleast 10% in a power like Soul Drain, however that is not true if you hit multiple targets. Each target hit would have a 10% chance to not proc, so if you hit 2 targets, the chance of not proc'ing becomes 1%, meaning 99% chance to proc. So it can be very reliable in Soul Drain, but it is a long wait between use. Nice alpha strike though.

 

 

which leads me to consider one of my three AoE attacks (Slice, Whirling Sword, Headsplitter).  I've tried it in Headsplitter, and it procs well there, but I'd really like to *use* the critical on HS.  An attack that hits 5 targets like Slice can have only a 25% chance to proc on any given target, but 5 targets (assuming they all hit) should get you about a 76% chance to proc).  An attack like WS that hits up to 10 could be considered an insta-proc on an alpha strike against a x8 mob.  Which leads me to lean towards @Latex's viewpoint:

 

On 6/14/2020 at 1:42 PM, Latex said:

I put mine in Katana's Lotus Drops (The AOE) it seems to proc more often in that slot. I typically use; Buildup > Lotus Drops > Golden Dragonfly > Soaring Dragon, not sure if this is optimal though.

 

And @Sovera's counter.  Also, to Sovera's point, WS would not have 5+ targets for very long since even bosses will get knocked out via collateral damage long before the AV goes down.

 

On 6/15/2020 at 5:06 AM, Sovera said:

Only in the sense that you are not using Lotus Drops when doing single target. Fighting an AV or even a boss. Are you using your AoE? I think the answer is not, so the proc sits not used. Place it instead in something you will be using all the time. For me it was Avalanche. Be it ST or AoE I'd be spamming Avalanche.

 

2.  I'd have to think hard about the chain, but I don't think I could get anything more than Headsplitter and Disembowel off before the proc wears off.

 

I'll have to spend more time thinking about the damage aura slotting (not on the bs/inv though) as well.

 

Anyway, this is also a good way to bring back this thread for my own edification.  Thanks all!

[Yomo Kimyata]

Also, I've totally reversed my stance and am keeping it in Headsplitter.  It triggers a little more than half the time and then I can either chain Hack and Disembowel or Slice and Whirling Sword depending on how many targets I have left at the time.

[Bill Z Bubba]

I'm unsure why folks insist putting the +crit chance in an aoe. I need it for my ST chain against hard targets, not my aoe chain.

[tidge]

My suspicion (regarding placement of the +crit in an AoE) would be the hope of a greater chance of triggering the proc?

 

My Scrappers slot the +crit piece in a single-target attack, usually the Tier 5, as part of a 6-piece set bonus. My slotting is motivated by:

• The full set bonuses for the Critical Strikes ATO are pretty useful for Scrappers, concluding with a Global +Recharge bonus
• Often the T7, T8, T9 primary attacks can better benefit from both +5 boosting (ED? bah!) and/or various amounts of franken-slotting.

I'm not particularly careful about deriving optimal attack chains, but I try to have the +crit piece in an attack I will always be using (including for low level TF/SF).

[PainX]

my ST chain allways i want to crit AV's and im not going to AoE them

[Olly]

On 3/22/2021 at 5:13 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

I'm unsure why folks insist putting the +crit chance in an aoe. I need it for my ST chain against hard targets, not my aoe chain.

 

58 minutes ago, PainX said:

my ST chain allways i want to crit AV's and im not going to AoE them

 

What I understood from the previous discussions is that you put the IO in an attack that is *not* the one you want the crit on. Further to Bopper's point, an AOE so that you get a slightly larger chance for it to crit when you have 2+ critters in front of you. I guess the decision depends on whether you spend more time solo'ing AV's or teaming up.

 

For example, mine is in Arc of Destruction (AoE) so that when it hits and the IO procs, the big red "Critical Strike!" sign pops up. I then hit Rend Armor (ST) + Follow Through (ST) if I'm looking to crit a specific ST target, or Whirling Smash (AoE) + Defensive Sweep (AoE) if I'm looking for the crit to clear out more mobs. I "can't" put it on either of those ST attacks because I want both of those attacks to crit. My other option would be to put it on Crushing Blow (ST), but that is such an ugly attack chain if I'm not soloing an AV.

 

Having said that, it's probably worth a closer look for people to consider solo vs. team attack chain considerations when deciding where to put the proc. I'm fairly certain I like it on the AoE just so I can see the awesome "critical" mass of pop-ups (twice!) when I hit a whole bunch of adds. Possibly not optimal, but personally satisfying.

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by Olly

[PainX]

1 hour ago, Olly said:

 

 

*snipped*

 

the problem with that is not every set is granted such a 5 target aoe most will have a 10 target aoe and that will just suck to use on an AV fire melee for example with FSC with its awesome 2.67s cast time

[Sovera]

5 hours ago, Olly said:

 

 

What I understood from the previous discussions is that you put the IO in an attack that is *not* the one you want the crit on. Further to Bopper's point, an AOE so that you get a slightly larger chance for it to crit when you have 2+ critters in front of you. I guess the decision depends on whether you spend more time solo'ing AV's or teaming up.

 

For example, mine is in Arc of Destruction (AoE) so that when it hits and the IO procs, the big red "Critical Strike!" sign pops up. I then hit Rend Armor (ST) + Follow Through (ST) if I'm looking to crit a specific ST target, or Whirling Smash (AoE) + Defensive Sweep (AoE) if I'm looking for the crit to clear out more mobs. I "can't" put it on either of those ST attacks because I want both of those attacks to crit. My other option would be to put it on Crushing Blow (ST), but that is such an ugly attack chain if I'm not soloing an AV.

 

Having said that, it's probably worth a closer look for people to consider solo vs. team attack chain considerations when deciding where to put the proc. I'm fairly certain I like it on the AoE just so I can see the awesome "critical" mass of pop-ups (twice!) when I hit a whole bunch of adds. Possibly not optimal, but personally satisfying.

 

 

Recovering from a stint at trying Scrappers again I noticed how well the proc worked in Power Crash. I had this AoE rotation of Power Crash, Whirling Hands, Power Crash and it was -very- satisfying to open with PC, see the message, and then see Whirling Hands come down crashing like a house on the surrounding mobs.

[Olly]

On 3/24/2021 at 2:06 AM, PainX said:

the problem with that is not every set is granted such a 5 target aoe most will have a 10 target aoe and that will just suck to use on an AV fire melee for example with FSC with its awesome 2.67s cast time

 

My point is, there are Reasons why other people would use an AOE vs. ST for the crit strike proc. You just pointed out another one -- powers available.

[PainX]

6 hours ago, Olly said:

 

My point is, there are Reasons why other people would use an AOE vs. ST for the crit strike proc. You just pointed out another one -- powers available.

guess i just prefer dmg procs in aoe because of how the game has just become move to pack spam aoe watch everything drop and dps the bosses down still getting plenty of crit procs on bosses to justify the io often in a tier 1-2 attack or basicly my fast spam filler attack concept is more attack's more proc's seems to work well for me

 

but it also depends on slotting theory and primary/secondary really so rather then debate where to slot it in general i think we should be talking where to slot it for which sets i know i tend to move it around some maybe i have this amazing mids build that simply is not that amazing to play so i alter it and that proc has often been the reason

[roleki]

On 3/22/2021 at 5:13 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

I'm unsure why folks insist putting the +crit chance in an aoe. I need it for my ST chain against hard targets, not my aoe chain.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I had/have a hell of a time finding a permanent home for Superior Critical Strikes in Dark Melee, and for a while there, it seemed like Shadow Maul might be it.  I've since moved it to Siphon Life, but it feels like I will need to move it again.  All my other scrappers seem to crit waaaay more often than Dark, either naturally or off a Strikes hit.  There needs to be an "ATO placement superthread" or something because even on test, it could take hours of data collection to suss out the best placement for the ATO in just one primary, let alone the 33000 other scrapper primaries.

[Pzn]

3 hours ago, roleki said:

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I had/have a hell of a time finding a permanent home for Superior Critical Strikes in Dark Melee, and for a while there, it seemed like Shadow Maul might be it.  I've since moved it to Siphon Life, but it feels like I will need to move it again.  All my other scrappers seem to crit waaaay more often than Dark, either naturally or off a Strikes hit.  There needs to be an "ATO placement superthread" or something because even on test, it could take hours of data collection to suss out the best placement for the ATO in just one primary, let alone the 33000 other scrapper primaries.

After a bunch of recent experimentation with dark melee I was happiest putting the crit proc into smite.  But that's only by itself with no other slotted recharge.  If you slot the entire set you'll tank the proc chances.  Even without any other recharge slotted into smite it's pretty easy to get it down to 2s so you can chain it between midnight grasp and siphon life endlessly.  I tried running it in shadow maul at first and it seemed like the proc fired off way too early in the animation so you ended up wasting the crit window.

[Heraclea]

On my Spines scrapper, I was more worried about Quills eating the proc, rather than something more desirable like Ripper.   That character has unusual considerations: only one single attack, so only one set of Kinetic Combat; Quills having a strong need for endurance reduction, so Multi-Strike is better than anything else I considered in it, including purple sets.  I ended up putting the proc in Spine Burst, which is my usual alpha strike, that way it may be active for Ripper, which is the followup. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

8 hours ago, Heraclea said:

On my Spines scrapper, I was more worried about Quills eating the proc, rather than something more desirable like Ripper.   

 

I'm not sure what you mean by Quills eating the proc?  Wouldn't every attack that activates in 3.25 second window be eligible?  So potentially Quills, potentially a damage aura from a secondary, and as many attacks as you can get off manually?

[Heraclea]

53 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

I'm not sure what you mean by Quills eating the proc?  Wouldn't every attack that activates in 3.25 second window be eligible?  So potentially Quills, potentially a damage aura from a secondary, and as many attacks as you can get off manually?

That was more or less the point. I had understood that the proc meant that the next attack has increased chance to crit; so if Quills pulsed in that time frame it might consume it rather than an attack I intended.  Apparently the proc, if fired, stays until it expires and is not consumed by the next attack. 

[Bionic_Flea]

It's not consumed, but it only lasts 3.25 seconds.  It's possible to get two attacks in that window, depending on the attack.

[Heraclea]

22 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

It's not consumed, but it only lasts 3.25 seconds.  It's possible to get two attacks in that window, depending on the attack.

This is what I did not understand.  Any attack you can fire in that short instance gets the buff;  hurry up and don't bother to choose wisely. 

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, Heraclea said:

This is what I did not understand.  Any attack you can fire in that short instance gets the buff;  hurry up and don't bother to choose wisely. 

 

I am currently leveling a Rad/Ea and have placed it in Devastating. Devastating being the heavy hitter it would make sense to increase its power, but I looked at it and decided to instead increase the damage of Radioactive Smash and Radiation Siphon since Devasting already does pretty good damage by itself.

 

I find I'm fine with running into a pack. BU, Devasting empowered by BU + Gaussian. The super long animations involved give time for mobs to wake up, alpha, then run to me. Then I segue straight away into Atom Smasher for BU + Gaussian + crit buff AoE goodness.

 

Or for ST it should empower Radioactive Smash and Radiation Siphon.

[PhoenixV117]

On 3/29/2021 at 11:48 PM, josh1622 said:

After a bunch of recent experimentation with dark melee I was happiest putting the crit proc into smite.  But that's only by itself with no other slotted recharge.  If you slot the entire set you'll tank the proc chances.  Even without any other recharge slotted into smite it's pretty easy to get it down to 2s so you can chain it between midnight grasp and siphon life endlessly.  I tried running it in shadow maul at first and it seemed like the proc fired off way too early in the animation so you ended up wasting the crit window.

It procs a lot if you proc mule smite and don’t add any recharge enhancements. 

[Hedrondesign]

On my claws scrapper I put it in follow up and I have often gotten it 2-3 times in a row in a fight. Occasionally I have gotten the proc 4 or 5 times. I never seen it go off more than 5 in a row. I didn't even know that was possible. Base recharge on follow up is what, 6 seconds I think? Of course from time to time I do have dry spells but it is pretty consistant. Follow up then cone and spin usually sends a cloud of crits across the screen unless the 50% just rolls low that time. I am trying to place it in a good slot on another scrapper but I made an oopsy and put it is a fast power and it seems to hardly ever go off. No clu why someone would put it in an aoe yeah maybe the proc goes off but then you miss out on using that aoe as a crit proliferator. When I hit the proc off follow up then throw an aoe or two it's magic.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Lots of bad things happened in that year.