Weekly Discussion 53: How to Increase Villain Population

[Apparition]

If Mercy Island is turned into a red side Atlas Park, then I request an alternate red side starting zone ala the old Galaxy City.  (Note that I do not expect either to happen, especially due to lack of resources). The destruction of Galaxy City pretty much guaranteed that I will never play blue side again.  Turning Mercy Island into an Atlas Park clone with no alternative starting zone would most likely turn me off from the game altogether.

[SwitchFade]

39 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

So your "best fix" is to throw ALL of Redside in the trash and start over from a clean sheet of paper.

 

And just how many man hours do you think that would take to implement?

1 ...?

10 ...??

100 ...???

1000 ...????

10,000 ...?????

100,000 ...??????

1,000,000 ...???????

... more ...????????

 

How is this in any way a PRACTICAL, let alone ACHIEVABLE(!), suggestion you've offered?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

I mean, you're basically saying "make a different game!" here.

Don't you think it's a bit far to attribute to me the stance "throw all of redside in the trash and..." As I did not advocate this? I did highlight the issues.

 

Since CoV inception I have pondered at length what would make it appealing. Everything about it that is unappealing is foundational. No quick fix will ameliorate that, unfortunately.

 

If we're going to acknowledge a problem, let's actually acknowledge it. I understand there are people who enjoy redside; however, data speaks for itself, as the vast majority not only don't like it, they eschew it completely.

 

By posting the honest foundational issues with CoV, we gain perspective. By viewing the full scope of the issue, we can craft strategy.

 

A full rework, keeping the good and fixing the not as good, would absolutely be time intensive; however, what good is served by hiding the issues? Perhaps there will not be a full rework, due to resources, but at least ACKNOWLEDGING them allows for crafting a better attainable solution within the constraints.

[dopeninja]

The only time I really enjoyed red side was when the VEATS came out. Sure I had several lv50 vills by the time they came out, but Red side seemed really boring and a hassle to get around.

 

My suggestion, and hear me out here...... we kill the spider...... Recluse has to go. States is dead, kill off Recluse, kill off Arachnos. Sure there will be some leftover hanger on folks, but they have served their purpose. Why? This allows for new stories to be told, new powers to come into play and gives a reason to do zone revamps.

 

Patron pools are just open. No more arcs to get them, as well the patrons are dead or no longer the big dogs. Maybe rename the pools. Could also tie them to faction. Vills/Rogues get Patrons, Hero/Vig get Epics. If you switch, they are disabled like accolade powers.

 

Use the radio/paper "contact" for a 1-50 branching arc. No real contact, you're working for yourself. Give several different mission complete choices. Kinda like moral choices, but more of a what direction do I want to go choices. 

[DrInfernus]

1 hour ago, Apparition said:

Heh.  That just shows how people are different.  To me, it’s a bonus that red side does not have a social hub zone.  If it did, I would probably avoid that zone like the plague, like I do Atlas Park.

 

IMO, Kallisti Wharf should be the social hub zone anyway as it was clearly designed to be one and is co-op.

Completely agree that KW could be a great co-op social hub. Bit like how you used to be able to choose between starting in Galaxy or Atlas, be great if both Heroes and Villains could choose to start in KW. Of course, would need to populate KW with content and contacts first. 
 

@Redlynnemakes some AMAZING points but personally I can’t get away from a feeling that populating red side better lies in more co-op rather than more segregation. Plenty comic book lore to support heroes and villains teaming together. 
 

I just think so many mistakes were made with CoV at the start really. You feel heroic in CoH, but I never really feel villainous in CoV.   

[seresibyl3]

I personally prefer red side, but don't play it -- because its barren. So it's a catch 22 thing. I think people need more taskforces (I don't do them but a lot do), they need easier to navigate maps, less annoying enemies heck even adding some unique things that give a reason to go there -- now that we can freely switch -- would make sense. Basically just making it an extension... not anything required. 

 

I can say though that any of the storyline stuff here wouldn't impact my playing on red side or not, and probably wouldn't for a good majority of people - judging by the # of people that haven't done a single of their own storyline missions (or make groups) lol 

[Darkneblade]

Completely long shot but, it will be nice if we can gamble in St.Martial... Villains/Rogues only..

[seresibyl3]

Remove AE from Hero.

Keep it in Red.

 

There, I solved the redside problem.

 

 

[Heraclea]

1 hour ago, DrInfernus said:

Completely agree that KW could be a great co-op social hub. Bit like how you used to be able to choose between starting in Galaxy or Atlas,

To serve that purpose, that zone is going to need about four more train stations. 

[iBot]

Personally I see two main problems with redside vs blueside:

1.) ATs are no longer locked to side.  When CoV first came out the only way to play a villain was to be on the redside.  This meant all the new shiny hotness was on that side so naturally the players flocked to it.  Now we can play any AT on any side so most just run blue cause that is where all the other players are.

2.) Flipping sides no longer takes days or weeks.  I'm all for QoL changes but Null the Gull is part of the problem.

 

I'm a bit spoiled in that the SG I'm a part of is fairly large and while I can't say we have a lot of players that run redside most don't mind switching if that is where the action is for the current play session.  A mention in our SG global channel and a redside SF or team fills almost as fast as a blueside one.  Players are constantly broadcasting that a patron arc is about to be run if anyone wants the badge.  Another SG we coalition with has a specific event each Wednesday that exclusively runs redside content.

 

I agree with the sentiment that it is harder to get motivated to play the villain stories because in game we are nothing more than lackeys.  We never get to be the "boss".  Another thing that I always felt was a miss during Live was that villains were never able to invade the blueside and mess up their efforts to thwart us.  But content isn't really the issue since at any time we can flip back and forth.  Personally I'd much rather just do away with red/blue/gold and merge all zones together, leave PvP flagged zones as is, and be done with it.  No more alignment.  Of course given point #2 above we already have this solution.  So the bigger question is "Why don't more players flip back and forth?"  That I don't know.

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, SwitchFade said:

Don't you think it's a bit far to attribute to me the stance "throw all of redside in the trash and..." As I did not advocate this?

Really?

Okay, let's review what you actually said then.

 

 

2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Bad maps: navigation is tedious

This amounts to "change the zones" which is functionally a request to redo the world geometry of the zone maps.

 

2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Bad villain groups: I'm sorry, snakes and spiders? They don't even look menacing

This amounts to "change the NPCs" which is functionally a request to redo the spawn groups AND MISSIONS found within the zone maps.

 

2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Bad landscaping: good Lord it's depressing, so much dingy, poorly lit, drab and dank everything

This amounts to "change the buildings/urban environment" which is functionally a request to redo (all of?) the art assets of the zone maps.

 

2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Few zones: so little to explore

This amounts to "not enough zones" which is functionally a request to MAKE NEW ZONES.

 

2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Bad storylines: I'm forced to be someone's b@tchmonkey, forever

This amounts to "rewrite every mission" which is functionally a request to do an overhaul/urban renewal of every mission (or at least the overwhelming majority of them) on Redside.

 

2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Poor AT cohesion: most villain ATs are designed to solo, making teaming less attractive

Redside is not limited to the "villain" Archetypes.  It is perfectly possible to start gameplay as a Blaster, Controller, Defender, Scrapper or Tanker in the Rogue Isles starting at Level 1 (I know because I've done it).  Non-issue.

 

 

 

So what do we have in what you're ACTUALLY wanting to do?

1. Change the zones.
2. Change the NPCs ... AND the Missions those NPCs feature in.
3. Change the zones.
4. Make more zones.
5. Change the Missions.

 

 

Boil that down and you have ... Change the Zones, Change the NPCs, Change the Missions and Make More Zones ... at which point you've basically taken the Rogue Isles AS IS and thrown them in the trash in favor of SOMETHING ELSE that is NOT what we have.  Which is to say ... you're asking to make an almost entirely new Redside.

 

Hence why I say what you're asking for is to throw Redside in the trash and start with a clean sheet of paper.

Not to put too fine a point on it ... that's a very non-trivial ask you're making there, and I shouldn't have to point that out to you.

 

 

 

Your turn.

[zenijos10]

A lot of folks seem to want to get rid of the ability to switch sides instantly via Null the Gull.  I don't believe this will have any real effect on increasing Red side population.  I am pro-Null the Gull. 

 

I've leveled two 50's now on Homecoming through villain side, probably spending about 85% of my time to 50 on red side.   Most of my other 50s have spent at least a little time on redside, either to hang with friends, or to do task forces.  Additionally I had somewhere around 10 level 50 villains before the shutdown.   In Homecoming, a non-trivial portion of people joining teams or task forces came from Blue side due to LFG requests.  I would estimate that if my group was full, at least 1 person came immediately via Null the Gull, and often up to half the group was drafted this way.  On many occasions when I was playing a hero and used Null to switch, 7 of 8 people joined via LFG drafting through Null.  It seems to me that Removing Null the Gull will simply make it much harder to fill groups and Task Force; unless there were no limitations on who could travel where and accept which missions in which case Null would be obsolete but the ability to join on a whim in redside would still live.

 

Stopping people from being able to leave or join redside on a dime wont do anything about content- and the feeling players get from it.  I think very few additional people would be motivated to make Villains if they found out they would be stuck on Villain or have to do alignment missions.   I think a larger number of people would just not make a villain.  If no other changes were made and only Null was removed, I would probably never make a redside character again.  My play rate on characters who are already redside would probably go down too.  

 

I think the true root of the issue is that the red content is less compelling to the population at large than blue:

• Many people feel the Rogue Isles are too drab/bleak
• Many people don't enjoy the large amount of Arachnos and Longbow
• Many people don't like the storyline direction their characters are forced into- often working as a lackey and then often as a stupid one
• Many people feel the stories are often lower in scope than hero stories.  i.e. Rob a bank versus save the world.
• Many people feel there is a lesser feeling of community or places to congregate in the Rogue Isles (i.e. like Atlas Park)
• Many people feel it is hard to get around

 

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by zenijos10

[tidge]

I'm a great fan of Redside. I just finished getting a villain up to level 47 and decided to 'go rogue' for the purposes of collecting a few pelts in the blue areas. My experience Red Side has always been this:

• The arcs are generally tight. There are a few that will send you between zones, but nothing like the Blue Side arcs. Many arcs are finished in a handful of missions.
• There are enough arcs (with diversity) that it is easy to replay Red side with different content. This is especially true if you find yourself teaming up with other villains. This can happen Blue side as well... but we had YEARS of playing most of the (low-level) Blue content... I think the idea of 'speed leveling' is commensurate with Blue side. A few characters ago, a few of us had trouble recruiting a large 'Red DFB', so we just ran missions instead. We missed the bonuses, but we ended up with more merits and plenty of XP by just playing a 3-man team through the Mercy Island and Port Oakes arcs.
• The TIP missions are hilarious. Every one of them offers 'agency'. Even while playing a nasty villain I found myself sometimes taking the Rogue choice because I preferred that option.
• Mayhem Missions are fun.

I think the title question could be 'How to get more players in Boomtown' and we'd be reading almost the same reactions from contributors: Too drab. Lack of Agency. Dull opposition. On the Blue side, I see very few players in Boomtown (Scrapyard's Ghost gets more bites than a Babbage in Boomtown), Faultline, Sewer Network(s), or Skyway City for that matter.

 

I find arguments (not the folks making the arguments) about 'player agency' disingenuous. Why do the Blue side contacts only offer me a choice between two missions? Don't thy know I'm hunting badges and want to face down Siege RIGHT NAO! Why am I being dispatched to 'Defeat 15 Hellions' when I should be going after the big bosses?! I'm a HERO not a flunky for the Perez Park Security Chief. And those RWZ contacts... UGH.

 

The payoff Red Side (for me) comes at around level 40: you start getting missions where you face off against individual members of the Freedom Phalanx, Vindicators, et al. Prior to taking out the BIG BLUE NAMES I found myself taking out the 'Rogues Gallery' of my potential competitors as well. I don't care who the contact is Red Side... It's MY VILLAIN who is taking them down. I don't think if you go to Red side with Blue side thinking you are setting yourself up for a good time. I understand that players may not want to change their 'head canon', and that's ok. That doesn't mean that there is anything WRONG with Red side.

 

I do have a small list of things that I'd like to see Red Side, as 'Quality of Life' improvements.

• The 'Defeat 200 ____' badges (for the accolade powers and unlockable contacts) should be as easy to get (through missions) as the 'Defeat 200 Wolf Spiders'. That is to say: there are so many Arachnos missions that I got this one quite early, but 'counting coup' against factions (for example) like the Family is less straightforward, despite them appearing in so many zones. I'd like an(other) contact in each applicable zone who gives missions that organically allow players to collect defeats. Alternatively, maybe some more could be made available by Street Sweeping? Right now Hellfrosts are the only boss type I can think of that are easier to get Redside (aside from Scrapyarders, Cage Consortium, and the like).
• I think there are areas of the existing zones that are under-used: Villa Requin in Sharkshead, Primeva in Nerva, The Hard Way in St. Martial. I'd really appreciate a 'Tunnel System' map like Paragon City's Sewer Network beneath Cap Au Diable and Port Oakes. This could be the equivalent of a Trial Zone Red Side.
• The temporary powers (as mission rewards) are already quite abundant, my only complaint about these is that some have such a low number of uses I don't find it worthwhile to add them to my trays. Boost the number of uses on the TEMP POWERS please.
• I find the Merit Rewards to be pretty good already, but I wouldn't object to a(nother) slight boost in rewards.
• Villains should be able to collect 'named villain' defeat badges as easily as they collect 'named hero' defeat badges (from TIP missions, for example). Writing that, there are a few instances (Vincent Ross' finale) where defeating the named characters should count for something. That final mission, although easy, is TEDIOUS.
• On the subject of badges and unlockable content: Rogue Toxic Tarantula in Warburg should count towards the Toxic Tarantula badge. I don't find it (Red Side) natural to have defeated enough Toxic Tarantula by level 44 in order too unlock Number 204. I suppose I could crank up difficulty in Arachnos missions, but still...

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by tidge
esplling

[johnnysc]

I agree with other posters that a change in the ambient daytime lighting in the dreary zones would be a nice quality of life upgrade.  Even if it alternated with the current overcast days.  I don't think this will recruit a lot of players to the zones by itself, but I imagine if the Isles had a tourism board, it would be on the top of their list and they'd be recruiting some mad scientists types to work on it. 🙂

 

Content wise, I think the zones should be used as the starting point to promote content from AE to the actual game.  This could be used to address a number of issues that players have with the current mission sets.  I personally don't have that high of a bar for what should be promoted. If it's equal or better than existing content, it should be a candidate.

 

I'd also like for people to start leveling as Rogues or Vigilantes from level one.  Use the promoted AE content for rogue or vigilante contacts.  Much of the existing villain content would map well to a rogue or vigilante character.

 

 

[ShardWarrior]

This is just my own personal experience here, but getting rid of Null the Gull would still not entice me into playing villain side.  Increased rewards would not entice me to do it either.  I play this game to be the hero, not the villain.  That is something which nothing suggested thus far will correct.  It is not that the story content is horrible or the rewards not sufficient.  I just do not want to play the villain.  Most everyone I team with regularly feels the same to my knowledge.   

 

People seem to forget this was the case back when the game was live as well.  Apart from launch of CoV, villain side was always far less in population.

 

 

[Mister Mass]

"Keep Redside Alive!"

 

That is this week's discussion item, right?

 

I remember when Issue 6 & CoV came out.  I bought it, but had no intention of playing it - because I was playing City of Heroes because I wanted to be a HERO, not a villain.  Being the new shiny, the vast bulk of the playerbase trotted off to the Rogue Isles, while I plugged away (mostly solo) on my army of alts blueside.  Eventually, the the new car smell wore off, & most of the playerbase returned blueside.

 

Eventually, I began to check out redside for myself.  With the Rogue Isles being mostly a ghost town, I mostly soloed - which was fine because it gave me the time to actually read the mission descriptions.  I found myself enjoying the redside ATs like Brutes & Corruptors, & thought that the material on redside usually to be better written than blueside.  To my surprise, I found myself enjoying "playing the bad guy" at least occasionally.

 

Given the paucity of players redside, I despaired of ever getting a chance to run the Strike Forces, but as I levelled up, I began to get invites from a group of highly experienced players looking to fill out their groups.  I didn't know it at first, but they were speedrunners, & it took me a bit to learn how to keep up.  While this was the antithesis of the way I would normally want to play, I must admit that I found speedrunning the SFs to be exhilarating fun, & I learned a lot about what highly capable players with top end builds could accomplish in the game.  And I gained a belief that, while the redside playerbase was small, it was very, very good - & probably contained the best players of the game, or at least a disproportionate percentage of them.

 

With Issue 18 & sideswitching, I took the opportunity to allow some of my heroes to get a chance to play redside content, but I resisted the temptation to sideswitch my redsiders over to blueside.  And with co-op content becoming more & more prevalent in the last few years of the game, I saw no need to do so later either.  I would run alignment missions to go Rogue, & they were fine - able to visit Paragon City & run blueside TFs when desired, but still remain redside.

 

With the Incarnate system effectively 100% co-op, there was no incentive to switch at level 50 either.  I got a Brute, a Corruptor, & a Stalker to 50, & would have done the same for my Dominator, Mastermind, & Widow if NCSoft hadn't pulled the plug on the game.

 

On Homecoming, I have split my characters evenly between blueside & redside (with almost half of those starting goldside before heading to Paragon City or the Rogue Isles).  But some of my bluesiders are "redside" ATs & some of my redsiders are "blueside" ATs.  I no longer feel the compulsion to assign alignment based on the old AT paradigm, instead going with what I feel fits best for the character.

 

So I am part of the minority that plays redside regularly.  I organize & run WST SFs almost every week.  They are a bit slower to fill than most WST TFs, but they usually fill quickly enough.  Anecdotally, the players seem more appreciative of the chance to run one than they do blueside - although that may be skewed by the fact that I ran 3 Mortimer Kals back-to-back-to-back Sunday night, & Kal needs to be unlocked, so the opportunity to join one is lower.

 

So redside is hardly dead.  But it is undeniably lower population, which is both a symptom & a cause of some problems.  It is a symptom of the fact that there are things about the Rogue Isles that turn off much of the playerbase.  And that lower population causes those players who prefer a higher population to keep away - so the cycle is self-reinforcing.

 

Let's look at some of the reasons players don't like the Rogue Isles:

 

They want to play Heroes

Some players are never going to satisfied with playing on the dark side.  Let's just accept that.  (I have a Hero that will never go Vigilante, let alone Villain or Rogue, because he is a true-blue Hero.)

 

But one way to entice some of these player redside would be to allow them to play Hero in the Rogue Isles.  If there were an equivalent to scanner/Safeguard missions for Heroes in the redside zones, allowing a Hero to foil smaller villainous plots, culminating in a mission to avert a disaster or major plot, there might be some incentive for Heroes to spend time in the Rogue Isles.  Even better if there were a series of contacts & a story arc chain for Heroes righting wrongs in the Rogue Isles & weakening Recluse's & Arachnos' grip there.

 

But this would require revamping the alignment system to remove the bar from pure Heroes going to the Rogue Isles (& Villains from going to Paragon City.)  And, unless it convinced more of the playerbase of the attraction of redside, it also likely wouldn't alleviate the issue of redside teaming - as the Heroes coming over to play Hero would not be inclined then to work with the Villains on pure redside material.

 

They hate the look & feel of the Rogue Isles

 

No getting around that - redside is grim & dirty quite a lot.  There is definitely a Behind the Iron Curtain decaying dictatorship feel there, which is most pronounced in the intro zone of Mercy Island.  That first impression is strong & it lingers.  Some of the intermediate zones aren't as bad, but this comes back with a vengeance in Grandville, as you see the squalor the lower classes live in, while their Arachnos masters live way above them in their fortress in the sky.

 

I must confess that this is not an issue for me.  I agree with the suggestion that Arachnos should have put up a better front (as we see in the gleaming impossibly perfect Praetoria) but I would argue that this was the intent of the raised central section of Cap au Diable & of the Grandville fortress in the sky.  The fact that these areas are not as attractive as intended is a sign of the utilitarian-minded & aethestically-challenged nature of Arachnos & Lord Recluse.  YMMV.

 

Some of this is selective memory at work, as chunks of Paragon City are rather unattractive.  King's Row is rows of tenements going to seed (evocative of Jack "King" Kirby's Suicide Slums in the otherwise prosperous Metropolis).  There is nothing attractive about Independence Port - except perhaps the giant octopus Lusca. 😉  Brickstown is dominated by the looming ziggurat of the Zigursky Penitentiary.  And the Trial & Hazard zones like the Hollows, Boomtown, & Crey's Folly put the Rogue Isles to shame in terms of being dreary & desolate.

 

[Cut off by work - how rude!]

 

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by Mister Mass

[ForeverLaxx]

One thing to keep in mind, which I don't think many people seem to be pointing out, is that any increase in villain population that's sustained is going to reduce the hero population. We aren't exactly adding lots and lots of new players every week like a live game would. The whole game for both sides could start to feel empty if "too many" people migrate. Not really sure this is an issue that could realistically be fixed or considered, though.

[Greycat]

16 minutes ago, ForeverLaxx said:

One thing to keep in mind, which I don't think many people seem to be pointing out, is that any increase in villain population that's sustained is going to reduce the hero population. We aren't exactly adding lots and lots of new players every week like a live game would. The whole game for both sides could start to feel empty if "too many" people migrate. Not really sure this is an issue that could realistically be fixed or considered, though.

If we could only have a limited number of characters, I might agree with you. If we could only "play" one side or another on a server (was that a SWTOR thing? I know some game did that - it was annoying,) I'd agree. But with 1000 to start with? I have to disagree this is a concern. I have red, bue *and* gold characters and switch depending on what's going on and what I want to play.

 

The issue is having more things that make redside appealing to more players.

[Skyhawke]

I'd settle for TFs and SFs to somehow be open to Hero or Villain side.  As in, instead of hoping beyond hope that enough villains are on to do a Silver Mantis, I could start one up and then invite from hero side as well.  Other than radio missions and TFs or raids, do people team up for story missions very often on blueside?  I solo story content on both sides and do my teaming mostly in radio missions, SF/TFs and raids.  I doubt I'm alone.  I'm not too bothered by lower population redside until I want to do one of the SFs.  Yes, it goes against the flavor of red/blue, but a bigger pool to choose from for strike forces would be nice.

[DrInfernus]

58 minutes ago, johnnysc said:

 

 

I'd also like for people to start leveling as Rogues or Vigilantes from level one.  Use the promoted AE content for rogue or vigilante contacts.  Much of the existing villain content would map well to a rogue or vigilante character.

 

 

I love this idea. That’s what makes Gold side so fun for me. You get your powers, start your journey, then make your decision at 20 once you’ve got to know your character a bit. 

[Without_Pause]

35 minutes ago, ForeverLaxx said:

One thing to keep in mind, which I don't think many people seem to be pointing out, is that any increase in villain population that's sustained is going to reduce the hero population. We aren't exactly adding lots and lots of new players every week like a live game would. The whole game for both sides could start to feel empty if "too many" people migrate. Not really sure this is an issue that could realistically be fixed or considered, though.

If we limit one side it will make new players feel like that is the only side which in turn will limited how much stuff they get to experience and limit their time playing the game. If life offered me the chance to have more set time to play CoH, I would run red side events. Currently I have two characters for red side content and use them when I can based on red side grouping.

 

I get some people don't like red side, but I think the move ought to be towards those who are undecided. I don't have issues with red side, but there's also a lot more teaming on blue side so that's where I go.

 

A plus for red side is the short SF's which I wish were replicated on blue side. Blue side TFs are boring and monotonous as hell. 

[ForeverLaxx]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

If we could only have a limited number of characters, I might agree with you. If we could only "play" one side or another on a server (was that a SWTOR thing? I know some game did that - it was annoying,) I'd agree. But with 1000 to start with? I have to disagree this is a concern. I have red, bue *and* gold characters and switch depending on what's going on and what I want to play.

 

The issue is having more things that make redside appealing to more players.

You can only play on one side at a time. I have characters across all alignments, but with how simple it is to cross factions due to Null I feel like villain-side is always going to be a relative ghost town and if anything changes to incentivize players to *stay* redside rather than flip over for a single SF, that will just take away from the hero population. Ultimately, I don't think this is a problem that can be fixed in a traditional sense as the influx of new players is practically 0.

[Peacemoon]

1 hour ago, ForeverLaxx said:

One thing to keep in mind, which I don't think many people seem to be pointing out, is that any increase in villain population that's sustained is going to reduce the hero population. We aren't exactly adding lots and lots of new players every week like a live game would. The whole game for both sides could start to feel empty if "too many" people migrate. Not really sure this is an issue that could realistically be fixed or considered, though.

I’ve mentioned this in the thread quite a bit. Granted it’s quite a long thread now! But splitting the community into two and fixing the ‘villain problem’ won’t necessarily make the game better. It would be better if all characters had access to all zones really.

[Apparition]

26 minutes ago, Peacemoon said:

I’ve mentioned this in the thread quite a bit. Granted it’s quite a long thread now! But splitting the community into two and fixing the ‘villain problem’ won’t necessarily make the game better. It would be better if all characters had access to all zones really.

All characters already have access to all the zones.  Really, unless you are playing a Dominator that needs the Villain alignment power, there is no reason to be any alignment other than Rogue or Vigilante.

 

The problem is that a lot of people really don’t want access to all of the zones.  Almost every single time I recruit for a SF, I get someone sending me a tell along the lines of “I am in!  How do I get to Cap au Diable/Sharkhead Isle/Grandville?”  I will reply back, “Great!  Go to Pocket D and find a seagull on top of a box truck on the red side.  Ask him to make you a Vigilante.  Once done, here’s how you get to...”

 

Almost invariably, I will either never hear back from the person, or get a tell back along the lines of, “My SG is calling.  Sorry.” 😆

Edited June 1, 2020 by Apparition

[iBot]

The main problem with rogue and vigilante is that depending on which alignment you chose you have to remember to not go to Ouro or a base if on a mixed team.  The game kicks you off the team if you enter a zone that checks for alignment.  And don't get me wrong, I use Null all the time so I wouldn't want it removed from the game.  I just see it as part of the issue with one portion of the game being less populous.  As for players not knowing how to use it, all I can say is that I had no idea it was there until 3 months after the game was back.  I found out because another SG mate was going to run a SF and when I mentioned I had no villains they said "Go use Null the Gull to flip".

 

And yes the same can be said of a lot of zones blue side.  I can't think of a time since coming back where I passed another player in Boomtown.  And the only time I even venture into Boomtown is when doing a Synapse. 

[Apparition]

All of my characters are exclusively the Rogue alignment and I have never been kicked from a team when going to Ouro or using a base when doing or even leading a blue side Task Force or Trial.