Force Redux Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 (edited) TELEPORTATION POOL Suffers from being clunky. Let's try to change that. Recall Friend - functions just fine, and is useful and often requested on speed runs. Or for group wipe purposes. Leave as-is. Teleport - honestly, one of the few ways that Champions Online actually beat out CoH was in the implementation of their Teleport. The CoH version is clunky, difficult to use in small or confined maps, where you can't click, and it is anything but Nightcrawler-esque, with no finessse. The power should be overhauled: Teleport Cast 1.0 seconds Recharge: 12. 0 seconds Duration: 6.0 seconds Endurance: 13 seconds Effects: Grant Flight 6.0 seconds with high flight control., followed by 4 more seconds of no-control flight (when you reappear). Grant Phase Shift 6.0 seconds. Grant Invisibility 6.0 seconds. Affect Only Self 6.0 seconds. Invulnerability 6.0 seconds. What happens? You click and get six seconds to fly/move wherever you want, unseen, unaffected (because this simulates you being 'in between'), then you reappear and have another 4 more seconds of hover-ish flight so you can decide where to go next if in mid-air. Unlike current Teleport, you are not clicking every 3 seconds or so, so it reduces click fatigue on long distance map travel. You also can maneuver in tight spaces to without mouse clicking on targets, and thus can navigate things like Council caves. Teleport Foe - improve accuracy to 1.2 from 1.0; Reduce the cast time from 5.56 to 3.26 seconds. Team Teleport - this should function more like Assemble the Team. No one in all my years in CoH has ever asked to be teleported along as a travel power for regular travel purposes. Long Range Teleport - Teleporters should be masters of getting around. The cast time should be reduced to 3.0 seconds. In an age of many types of zone teleports (base teleports, wentworth's teleports, Pocket D teleports, Oro portals, etc), this power should be quicker and offer more versatility: Continue to allow porting to all existing zones. Add in ability to port to hazard zones. Add in ability to port to the current zone map's teleport location. If in a mission map, allow to teleport to the mission entrance. Perhaps allow for a second teleport location in each map only accessible to Long Range Teleport, although this may make the menu a bit larger, but with the reduced cast time, that should be okay). Edited June 16, 2020 by Force Redux @Force Redux on Everlasting ----- (read my guide) ----- Gather the Shadows: A Dark Miasma Primer for Masterminds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JW74 Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Removing the tiered requirements for taking higher level, non-travel powers would not make the game more fun or even -- it would just let people drop their training-wheel powers and become more god-like. This type of system would only work if you the power sets weren't tiered but branched -- like Galactic Civilizations. Example: Concealment would have five slots: the first slot would give you Stealth; the second would build on the power and give you Invisibility or Sneak Attack (+DMG_, the third slot would build on Invisibility and give you Grant Invisibility (Individual) or build on Sneak Attack and Ambush (+DMG +Knockdown); then Grant Invisibility (Mass) or Unforseen Attack (+DMG +Knockdown +Fear); and so on. I think that would be a complicated re-write. I suggest granting an initial travel power at level one or character creation. While familiarizing yourself with the city maps is great and highly encouraged, moving around the maps while running from mission to mission is time consuming and most players know if they want to be a jumper, speedster, flier, or TP'er at the time or character creation. The initial sprint, slide, ninja, and beast are helpful but do not compare. To build on that point: travel speeds should be the same speeds across the board: MPH/MPH for jump, super speed, flight, and teleport should be the same unslotted for each character. Field Medic as a toggle. Aid Other and Heal Self should be the same speed and healing capability as a Dramatic Improvement (level 2 green). Healing animations could be sped up and simplified by making it similar to granting super speed buffs (just making it green by default). Get rid of Group Fly and create a very cheap, very basic jet pack that you can get from any vendor while leaving the more expensive prestige jet packs at the same price 10k/hr.. Invisibility should have a better defence bonus even if you are detected (ex: Rikti). Invisibility should be available before Grant Invisibility. Why would you be able to make someone else invisible before yourself? It'd be great if different Origins either had different bonuses, penalties, and animations for each power set. I know this would be a big rewrite and complicate coding but... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Redux Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 18 minutes ago, drbuzzard said: I think people do overstate the necessity of hasten. I have around half of my builds as melee ATs, and very few of them have perma hasten, as honestly it's of limited use on them when I really run the numbers. Now there are certainly builds that need it (or at least want it a lot), and I have it on those. The investment to get there is fairly intensive and can be exclusive of other goals. Pretty much this. Except on Illusion Controllers (for PA) or Dominators (for perma-Dom), I'm generally satisfied if I get Hasten down to 2 min 30 seconds recharge or less. @Force Redux on Everlasting ----- (read my guide) ----- Gather the Shadows: A Dark Miasma Primer for Masterminds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathulfr Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 (edited) I posted this suggestion in one of the many (many) "nerf Hasten" threads, and I'm too lazy to go back and find it to quote, so I'll just retype it here. Nerf Hasten to +47.5% recharge. Make Hasten a toggle that costs 0.32 end/sec (perma-Hasten for everyone, but at a cost). Add ~2%* defense to Hasten, so that it works like Combat Jumping and Hover. This means it should also take defense/end-red/run speed enhancements, defense IO sets, and run speed IO sets (like CJ takes jump IO sets and Hover takes flight IO sets). Buff Swift to add +15% recharge (not enhanceable), for those players who don't want/need Hasten, but do want/need a smidge more recharge in their builds (the functional equivalent of two LotG). For those who only heard "Nerf Hasten", read the lines that say "Add defense to Hasten" and "Buff Swift". Here's the math: 47.5% perma-recharge in Hasten + 7.5% LotG in Hasten + 15% perma-recharge in Swift still = 70% total recharge. This gives players a lot more flexibility in their builds, and might allow many to skip Hasten altogether. Or, if they're going to take Hasten, it will act like the other travel power (former) prerequisites, making the travel pools function more consistently. (*: The same amount of +def as Combat Jumping and Hover) Edited June 16, 2020 by Rathulfr 5 @Rathstar Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidge Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, Zeraphia said: I haven't even taken the entire Force of Will power pool on any of my characters nor Presence nor Teleportation nor Flight nor Concealment. The only one who has taken Sorcery or Medicine has been my Fortunata, who can actually make use of these. I think maybe just making the powers themselves truly accessible, giving worthwhile self-buff powers early on in the pool instead of something weird would be a step in the right direction for making the later options more attractive! I generally agree that long recharge times on powers is the primary reason for taking Hasten (although I believe that the Endurance refill on PermaDoms is at least as important as fast-cycling through high-MAG powers) I wanted to chime in that I've made toons with deep investment in the Presence, Teleportation, Flight, Concealment, Sorcery and Medicine pools. Obviously not all at once on a single toon, but my Mastermind went deep in Flight, Teleportation and Concealment (while the 4th pool was a shallow dip in Medicine). If there is any common theme among my characters with deep power pool investment it's this: For those characters I placed character concept over raw numbers. One of the things that always makes me happy about a (travel) power pool is if the attack (a) isn't terrible and (b) fits the character's theme. For example: my blaster is a magic-user and with slotting Arcane Bolt is roughly equivalent to the T1 blast. I don't always slow down my attack chain to use it, but if it is going to be a finishing move I enjoy tossing it in for flavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Force Redux Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 24 minutes ago, Rathulfr said: I posted this suggestion in one of the many (many) "nerf Hasten" threads, and I'm too lazy to go back and find it to quote, so I'll just retype it here. Nerf Hasten to +47.5% recharge. Make Hasten a toggle that costs 0.32 end/sec (perma-Hasten for everyone, but at a cost). Add ~2%* defense to Hasten, so that it works like Combat Jumping and Hover. This means it should also take defense/end-red/run speed enhancements, defense IO sets, and run speed IO sets (like CJ takes jump IO sets and Hover takes flight IO sets). Buff Swift to add +15% recharge (not enhanceable), for those players who don't want/need Hasten, but do want/need a smidge more recharge in their builds (the functional equivalent of two LotG). For those who only heard "Nerf Hasten", read the lines that say "Add defense to Hasten" and "Buff Swift". Here's the math: 47.5% perma-recharge in Hasten + 7.5% LotG in Hasten + 15% perma-recharge in Swift still = 70% total recharge. This gives players a lot more flexibility in their builds, and might allow many to skip Hasten altogether. Or, if they're going to take Hasten, it will act like the other travel power (former) prerequisites, making the travel pools function more consistently. (*: The same amount of +def as Combat Jumping and Hover) I like the idea of one less clicky. I would sign up for all of this. Like, right now. Nice suggestions. 1 @Force Redux on Everlasting ----- (read my guide) ----- Gather the Shadows: A Dark Miasma Primer for Masterminds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peacemoon Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Troo said: With what you wrote, doesn't the math work out to Power Blast individually being less than each Boxing and Kick even without the +fighting synergy? You posted damage and recharge. Power Blast 59.28/8s = 7.41 which is less than Boxing 23.25/2.5s = 9.3 Math.. Some ArcanaTime DPA / DPS / attack chain numbers would likely be more relevant to your point. While Boxing, Kick and Brawl may not be as relevant to this incarnation of the game. There was a time when they were useful.. but I digress. I understand wanting M0R3! I just disagree that pool powers should exceed primary, secondary or epic powers. There is a lot of nuance built into the game with implicit trade offs. Well, to be honest I’m not a very mathematical poster, it’s not really a strength that I bring to a discussion so I stick to what I am good at (I’ll leave it for others to decide whether I bring anything else of value!) I added some numbers to the post because I think it’s pretty evident even at face value, that the power pool attacks are not worth it, which is why they are rarely ever taken, and usually when they are taken it’s more thematic reasons than gameplay. I think it’s unfair to say I’m just ‘wanting M0R3’ - I thought I wrote up a fair analysis. Also to highlight again that power pool attacks should be competitive choices and at the moment they clearly aren’t. Their damage is too low. Their recharge is too fast. They rarely bring anything else to the table. It’s alright saying they should be weaker than primary and secondary set powers, but power pool attacks are in direct competition with them (and other powers) when it comes to deciding whether to take them or not. So if they are weaker, what is it they’re supposed to bring to the table? So again, either turn them into proper attacks that do respectable damage and have longer recharged, or give them some other advantages so they can be woven into an attack chain to provide some benefit. Not only are power pool attacks inferior to primary/secondary attacks, which every AT has plenty of, but even when it comes to unlocking the ‘requires 2 powers to select’ - are you going to take Combat Jumping or Jump Kick? Flurry or Hasten? Arcane Bolt is actually the closest to a decent attack, and the one you see taken by players the most because of that. Edited June 16, 2020 by Peacemoon 1 Retired, October 2022. Fallout Engineer Rad/AR Defender || Peacemoon Empathy/Psi Defender || Svarteir Dark/Dark Controller Everlasting || UK Timezone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peacemoon Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 30 minutes ago, Rathulfr said: I posted this suggestion in one of the many (many) "nerf Hasten" threads, and I'm too lazy to go back and find it to quote, so I'll just retype it here. Nerf Hasten to +47.5% recharge. Make Hasten a toggle that costs 0.32 end/sec (perma-Hasten for everyone, but at a cost). Add ~2%* defense to Hasten, so that it works like Combat Jumping and Hover. This means it should also take defense/end-red/run speed enhancements, defense IO sets, and run speed IO sets (like CJ takes jump IO sets and Hover takes flight IO sets). Buff Swift to add +15% recharge (not enhanceable), for those players who don't want/need Hasten, but do want/need a smidge more recharge in their builds (the functional equivalent of two LotG). For those who only heard "Nerf Hasten", read the lines that say "Add defense to Hasten" and "Buff Swift". Here's the math: 47.5% perma-recharge in Hasten + 7.5% LotG in Hasten + 15% perma-recharge in Swift still = 70% total recharge. This gives players a lot more flexibility in their builds, and might allow many to skip Hasten altogether. Or, if they're going to take Hasten, it will act like the other travel power (former) prerequisites, making the travel pools function more consistently. (*: The same amount of +def as Combat Jumping and Hover) Does that mean we could play Dominators without the need to create ultra complex scripts and macros to make Hasten and Dom both autofire? 😆 1 Retired, October 2022. Fallout Engineer Rad/AR Defender || Peacemoon Empathy/Psi Defender || Svarteir Dark/Dark Controller Everlasting || UK Timezone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redlynne Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, Peacemoon said: (I’ll it for others to decide whether I bring anything else of value!) You bring passion to the topics you post on. That's hard to quantify with number systems. 1 Verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troo Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 34 minutes ago, JW74 said: it would just let people drop their training-wheel powers and become more god-like I have two reactions to this: YES! As a character gets to higher levels maybe they don't need the lower primary and secondary powers preferring to respec out of those and into something more useful. 'god-like'.. it is City of Heroes not City of Gods "Homecoming is not perfect but it is still better than the alternative.. at least so far" - Unknown (Wise words Unknown!) Si vis pacem, para bellum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcane Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 Concealment gives 3 LotG mules for 3 power choices. One of the better pools in the game for that reason alone 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathulfr Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 3 hours ago, Peacemoon said: Does that mean we could play Dominators without the need to create ultra complex scripts and macros to make Hasten and Dom both autofire? 😆 YES! 😁 1 @Rathstar Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurtHutt Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 (edited) 21 hours ago, arcaneholocaust said: Concealment gives 3 LotG mules for 3 power choices. One of the better pools in the game for that reason alone 🙂 Uh...disagree. I'm one of those odd guys who wants cool powers that're fun to play. I know...I've lost my mind! I'm not a slave to recharge and actual have doms that are NOT perma! It's true! Let's start the insanity! In regards to the topic, this might be a simplistic statement but why limit the number of pools we can access? Let players take as many pools as they desire. No, I am not saying allow us to take more powers. So, if you want to take an extra pool then it'll cost you out of your secondary or primary powers. This may allow for some rather different characters that could add a lot of fun in the process. If that doesn't work numbers-wise then how about allow us to still pick a regular power pool over epic/patron? Maybe that'll also allow us to make some creative new builds and ideas. This would also allow us to have Sorcery and one of the other pools you cannot combine with it. No, I didn't do any math and consider if this would break the game so please forgive my simplistic/ignorant approach here. Personally, I am making an effort not to have any must have power pools. Yes, that includes the speed and fighting pool...they used to be mandatory in my builds. Another idea: animation time on Force of Will set is painfully slow. I enjoy the powers but good grief...I don't know how many times an enemy was taken out during animation time which resulted in me hitting an already 'arrested' enemy. Ughsville. There are many pools that I never touch. It seems many use them so that's great. All of my other suggestions seem to have been covered. Finally, my suggestion: The Sidekick power pool set. Yes, this is a pet idea. You can pick the type of sidekick (range, melee etc) and TOTALLY design the look of the Sidekick including name. As you grab upper tier powers in the pool, you could add things like Def or Res or Damage etc. This pool should become available after level 25 or so - you need to have some street cred etc before you take on a ward/sidekick/partner/lackey etc! 😄 Thanks for reading! Edited June 17, 2020 by BurtHutt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJBC Posted June 16, 2020 Share Posted June 16, 2020 (edited) #1 Aid Self animation options. I hate the tricorder so much. I tried to use it on my magic SR scrapper cause the power was very useful but had to respec out of it cause it ruined the character concept. #2 i think boxing and kick would be greatly improved by being ‘high attack’ and ‘low attack’ or ‘light attack’ and ‘heavy attack’ and let characters have options to choose their animation for each attack. This is a short list off the top of my head but in conclusion: I think that a few power pool animation options would be an easy and popular fix without needing to worry about tricky balancing concerns. (He says hopefully with no clue how easy/difficult this would be). Edited June 17, 2020 by TJBC 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockpick Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 7 hours ago, Rathulfr said: I posted this suggestion in one of the many (many) "nerf Hasten" threads, and I'm too lazy to go back and find it to quote, so I'll just retype it here. Nerf Hasten to +47.5% recharge. Make Hasten a toggle that costs 0.32 end/sec (perma-Hasten for everyone, but at a cost). Add ~2%* defense to Hasten, so that it works like Combat Jumping and Hover. This means it should also take defense/end-red/run speed enhancements, defense IO sets, and run speed IO sets (like CJ takes jump IO sets and Hover takes flight IO sets). Buff Swift to add +15% recharge (not enhanceable), for those players who don't want/need Hasten, but do want/need a smidge more recharge in their builds (the functional equivalent of two LotG). For those who only heard "Nerf Hasten", read the lines that say "Add defense to Hasten" and "Buff Swift". Here's the math: 47.5% perma-recharge in Hasten + 7.5% LotG in Hasten + 15% perma-recharge in Swift still = 70% total recharge. This gives players a lot more flexibility in their builds, and might allow many to skip Hasten altogether. Or, if they're going to take Hasten, it will act like the other travel power (former) prerequisites, making the travel pools function more consistently. (*: The same amount of +def as Combat Jumping and Hover) I think more people would take Hasten with these changes. I know I would... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverLaxx Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Rather than focus on any one individual pool, I'd rather just say that overall the pools with attacks need to have those attacks looked at. So many of them are just not worth the powerslot and are often only taken as a "tax" to get to something better, or chosen as a set/proc mule. The idea that these attacks are set to be weaker than standard powerset attacks is an archaic design choice that in some cases isn't even true depending on the pool attack in question. Making these attacks more comparable to standard attacks can open up build choices in at least the concept sector of builds if not the min/max ones. I'd avoid the use of "synergy" to do this, though. As someone earlier said, I'd rather the attacks be worth picking on their own merits rather than essentially forcing someone to take all the powers just so the two that stink are borderline not-entirely-useless. Currently, only Cross Punch (due to synergy, unfortunately), Air Superiority, and the two Experimentation attacks seem to pull some weight. Any other attacks chosen usually end up on Controllers due to Containment, most notably Arcane Bolt. With the wide variance of effects you can pull from Pool powers, it's going to be hard to bring up anything that isn't used for IO Set bonuses/proc mules without making them too good. Perhaps relaxing some restrictions, like how Stealth and Shadowfall can't be on at the same time (a silly restriction considering you can slot a Stealth IO into Sprint to get the same effect) should be considered. Animation/Interrupt times of other powers like Aid Self/Aid Other could be modified to make them more appealing, too. There are minor tweaks to the most annoying aspects of a power that could get other people to use them more without just straight buffing the power's primary strength/reason for selection. Overall though, the real problem is getting people to use Power Pool powers in a post-IO world that don't provide meaningful potential set bonuses or useful proc effects. The heavy emphasis on defense-capping and high recharge builds is always going to favor sets that can provide both. No pools besides Leaping, Leadership, Flight, Speed and Fighting provide the kinds of effects people want from sets besides Concealment, and since those powers lose almost their entire defense bonus while in combat and actively hinder aggro generation, it doesn't get included in the mule/set picks. I don't think this is an angle that can be changed, which is why instead I propose above an adjustment to what realistically can be changed, and that's the efficiency/desireability of attacks and ease-of-use of other powers like Aid Self. Greater discussion can be had over individual pools that probably need serious help or overhauled offerings, like Presence, but I don't think one megathread like this is the place to really get bogged down in a single pool discussion and will just drown out everything else that needs to be brought up in a more general sense. 2 exChampion and exInfinity player (Champion primarily). Current resident of the Everlasting shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepp Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 16 hours ago, Rathulfr said: I posted this suggestion in one of the many (many) "nerf Hasten" threads, and I'm too lazy to go back and find it to quote, so I'll just retype it here. Nerf Hasten to +47.5% recharge. Make Hasten a toggle that costs 0.32 end/sec (perma-Hasten for everyone, but at a cost). Add ~2%* defense to Hasten, so that it works like Combat Jumping and Hover. This means it should also take defense/end-red/run speed enhancements, defense IO sets, and run speed IO sets (like CJ takes jump IO sets and Hover takes flight IO sets). Buff Swift to add +15% recharge (not enhanceable), for those players who don't want/need Hasten, but do want/need a smidge more recharge in their builds (the functional equivalent of two LotG). For those who only heard "Nerf Hasten", read the lines that say "Add defense to Hasten" and "Buff Swift". Here's the math: 47.5% perma-recharge in Hasten + 7.5% LotG in Hasten + 15% perma-recharge in Swift still = 70% total recharge. This gives players a lot more flexibility in their builds, and might allow many to skip Hasten altogether. Or, if they're going to take Hasten, it will act like the other travel power (former) prerequisites, making the travel pools function more consistently. (*: The same amount of +def as Combat Jumping and Hover) That would hit Control and Support powersets fairly hard, a 7.5% recharge reduction plus more endurance drain. Not a fan of this solution. 1 Archetype Concept Compilation -- Powerset Concept Compilations: Assault Melee -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Great Archetype Concept Battle: Final Round -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archetype Proposal Amalgamation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepp Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 16 hours ago, Peacemoon said: Does that mean we could play Dominators without the need to create ultra complex scripts and macros to make Hasten and Dom both autofire? 😆 Recharge needed for 2-slot perm-Hasten (pre-Hasten) = 122.5 Recharge needed for perma-Dom = 122.5 I don't need a script, I just drop Hasten on my Doms. 1 Archetype Concept Compilation -- Powerset Concept Compilations: Assault Melee -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Great Archetype Concept Battle: Final Round -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archetype Proposal Amalgamation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seresibyl3 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I still argue that most people that skip hasten, like the guy above, have to build in a way that makes hasten worth less than another slot -- and I think this thread does a nice job of looking at power pools -in regards to cost vs other pool picks- which is where the Hasten problem lies -- 70% recharge is worth a LOT to a lot of characters and for most - that one slot is better spent on hasten than pretty much every other power pool pick... Thematics aside. Can you function without it? Yes Are you better without it than with it? Probably not, because the cost of not having it to be the same as someone that has it is a LOT. I'm fully for nerfing hasten and adding a base recharge to sprint or something as suggested above -- waiting for recharges isn't fun. I mean, sure I know people have different ways of having fun, but I don't think I've encountered anyone who has said they just LOooOove standing around waiting for their power/ability circles to fill up to use em again... "Oh man, this one time the mob used a cold attack on me and I got to wait an extra 30 seconds to do anything - it was DOPE!" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peacemoon Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, seresibyl3 said: I still argue that most people that skip hasten, like the guy above, have to build in a way that makes hasten worth less than another slot -- and I think this thread does a nice job of looking at power pools -in regards to cost vs other pool picks- which is where the Hasten problem lies -- 70% recharge is worth a LOT to a lot of characters and for most - that one slot is better spent on hasten than pretty much every other power pool pick... Thematics aside. Can you function without it? Yes Are you better without it than with it? Probably not, because the cost of not having it to be the same as someone that has it is a LOT. I'm fully for nerfing hasten and adding a base recharge to sprint or something as suggested above -- waiting for recharges isn't fun. I mean, sure I know people have different ways of having fun, but I don't think I've encountered anyone who has said they just LOooOove standing around waiting for their power/ability circles to fill up to use em again... "Oh man, this one time the mob used a cold attack on me and I got to wait an extra 30 seconds to do anything - it was DOPE!" I think the hasten issue is something we’ve argued to death. It is as clear as the sky is blue that it’s very powerful and far above a lot of other picks, with a benefit that can’t be replicated elsewhere. All I would say to it now is changing hasten is not really something you would do on cold empirical evidence. You have to factor in how much of a staple to CoH it is now. It’s been that way since launch. I think @Rathulfr’s suggestion is a long the right lines. I.e. not so much nerfing it’s effectiveness but just spreading out the bonus a bit so it’s not all centred in one power pool pick. 2 Retired, October 2022. Fallout Engineer Rad/AR Defender || Peacemoon Empathy/Psi Defender || Svarteir Dark/Dark Controller Everlasting || UK Timezone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShardWarrior Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 On 6/14/2020 at 3:51 PM, Galaxy Brain said: The main thing to me is that there is a clear line in the sand between AMAZING pool powers and everything else. This and there are pool powers that have been made irrelevant - such as Acrobatics - due to IOs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightmarer 2 Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Another solution to make other power pool choices more desirable would be to make Hasten inherent so people might choose other pools instead of Speed thus getting more diversity. I know it sounds crazy but due to the amount of builds that require Hasten or perma´Hasten for full efficiency, it's not too different to Stamina and the move devs did by making Fitness Pool inherent, just saying... Being chased by a wasp is the most complete sport practice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rathulfr Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Zepp said: That would hit Control and Support powersets fairly hard, a 7.5% recharge reduction plus more endurance drain. Not a fan of this solution. So tweak the numbers a bit, and the concept is still sound? @Rathstar Energy/Energy Blaster (50+3) on Everlasting Energy/Temporal Blaster (50+3) on Excelsior Energy/Willpower Sentinel (50+3) on Indomitable Energy/Energy Sentinel (50+1) on Torchbearer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zepp Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Rathulfr said: So tweak the numbers a bit, and the concept is still sound? If you read my proposal on the first page, I actually suggested making Hasten an auto inherent. My point was that you can't reduce the number below 70% (or count IO bonuses) without it hitting Control and Support disproportionately. Hasten is not necessary or even optimal in most builds. However, in many control sets and most support sets it is crucial. As such, any reduction below 70% would require changes to dozens or hundreds of individual powers. And changes require time, testing, more time, more testing, even more time, balance testing, again, more time, and finally implementation. I do not think that anything needs to be done to Hasten unless you make it an inherent auto power to free up a slot in Speed to bring it in line with the other movement sets. Archetype Concept Compilation -- Powerset Concept Compilations: Assault Melee -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Great Archetype Concept Battle: Final Round -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Archetype Proposal Amalgamation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorDitko Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I've not used all the pools, so I'll stick to what I know. I strongly support fixing Teleport. My techno Teleport-themed Grav/Time controller had to pick three pool powers (Hover, Flight, and Teleport) to essentially gain the benefits my Ill/Time sorcerer got from Mystic Flight. That's just wrong! Suggestion: Cut the casting time, increase the range, reduce the END, and make the Hover at the end last until you move. You should never fall out of the sky just from lag. Combining TP foe and Recall Friend would be a welcome enhancement. Fill the empty slot with Assemble the Team. And make Long-Range Teleport at least as good as the P2W Team Transport power. Right now it's underwhelming. My 2 copper pieces. Disclaimer: Not a medical doctor. Do not take medical advice from Doctor Ditko. Also, not a physicist. Do not take advice on consensus reality from Doctor Ditko. But games? He used to pay his bills with games. (He's recovering well, thanks for asking!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts