Weekly Discussion 58: Electric Blast

[marcussmythe]

Speaking to Elec - I could never love it on my Blasters, but Ive enjoyed my Elec/SR Sentinel so far.  The combination of the T9 and Power Sink shuts down most incoming damage pretty handily.

 

Power Sink could use a (much!) shorter animation.  Overall damage has the usual sentinel damage issue, but that goes to Sentinel, not to Electric Blast

[Coyote]

The one suggestion that I really like, regardless of any real solutions, is that chaining lightning would be cool as heck.

Accordingly, by the Rule of Cool, the main way to fix Electric Blast is to give all of its single-target attacks a chance to trigger a chain effect.

[Nemu]

We see the mechanic of building stacks already in this game so why not have each electric attack build stacks that do something, and then have certain powers consume all stacks for additional benefit, like the chaining effect mentioned above.

 

Here are some ideas about what building stacks can do:

 

Improved end drain and -recovery

Improved global recharge and endurance return from attacks

Build static charges that will have increased chance to occasionally zap random foes in range for minor damage and knock them down or stun them

Increase the chance of the shock animation on foes when hit by powers

 

Maybe change voltaic sentinel to a modal power that allows the player to choose from the above stack benefits depending on the toggle mode.

 

I'd also echo giving non-sentinel tesla cage the sentinel treatment so that there is a full compliment of ST attacks out of the primary.

[Turric]

My third 50 on live and second 50 here on Homecoming was Lady Electric, an electric / electric blaster. I very much enjoy the set, yet I do feel like it could use some help. I have Voltaic Sentinel yet I never use it because it is annoying to summon and does not seem to do much. The endurance drain secondary is of very limited usefulness. Perhaps on a corruptor or defender it would be more useful. On a blaster, I want to shock the bejebus out of villains. To that end, I would LOVE to see some kind of chain effect. Lightning Ball is alright, but I feel like electricity's gimmick should be jumping to other targets. More or less, I echo what others have already stated.

[Galaxy Brain]

Where would be the best place for chain lightning?

 

A triggered effect somehow off the ST attacks?

 

A dedicated power?

 

 

[Sir Myshkin]

Proposal for Changes to Electrical Blast:

• Reduce Lighting Bolt's animation time to 1.17/s (down from 1.67/s)
• Turn Short Circuit into a Chain Effect
  • Range 40'
  • Cast time reduced to 2/s and altered to [insert ranged option] that includes the halo effect of the current power
  • Keeps same stats (Rech, -Rec, -End, Cost, Acc, Dam)
  • Merge into single hit of damage instead of DoT, chain effect will over account for the DoT delay that existed before
• Change Aim to "Build Current"
  • Increase to 65% +Dam, 10/s
  • Lower to 15% +ToHit, 10/s
  • Gives +Recovery, 20% 10/s
  • Grants +3 Stacks "Current Charge"
• Tesla Cage
  • Reduce Cast Time to 1.67/s
  • Increase base damage to 150 (as total DoT)
  • These changes bring it in balance with other single target hold attacks in Blast Sets.
• Voltaic Sentinel
  • Previous Attack Removed
  • Now has "Chain Lightning"
    • Max 6 Chains
    • Mag 2 Sleep
      • 40% Chance
      • "Knocks target's synapses out of whack causing target to black out"
• New Mechanic: "Current Charge"
  • Charged Bolts, Lightning Bolt, Ball Lightning
    • -End and -Recovery effect increased by 3% for each stack of "Current Charge" built up.
  • Zapp
    • Consumes "Current Charge" stacks
    • Instant Cast
    • Notified Orange Ring
  • Tesla Cage
    • Consumes "Current Charge" stacks
    • Reduces cast time to 1.1/s
    • Amplifies to -50% Endurance
    • Notified Orange Ring
  • Passive Buff
    • Each stack of "Current Charge" grants 5% Recovery on Player

Solution Solves:

• Improves Single Target performance through correction of Tesla Cage into an appropriate ST attack compared to other Blast Sets, and lowering Lightning Bolt to provide better DPA balance compared to Charged Bolt (very little variance in live format)
• Removes the short coming of Short Circuit forcing an otherwise entirely Ranged set into Melee for one ability that roots the player for an extended period
• Develops more utility out of Voltaic Sentinel, giving it more value in combat and patching up the poor AoE performance of the set
• Addition of "Current Charge" adds additional value and theme to -End/-Recovery debuff, creates trade-off in recovery performance for player as well making the set more forgiving in endurance use, stays in theme, and brings it up to a more appropriate "mid line" package with consumption through Zapp and Tesla Cage. Provides the opportunity to better leverage the secondary effect on Lieutenants and Bosses.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Sir Myshkin

[Myrmidon]

34 minutes ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Proposal for Changes to Electrical Blast:

• Reduce Lighting Bolt's animation time to 1.17/s (down from 1.67/s)
• Turn Short Circuit into a Chain Effect
  • Range 40'
  • Cast time reduced to 2/s and altered to [insert ranged option] that includes the halo effect of the current power
  • Keeps same stats (Rech, -Rec, -End, Cost, Acc, Dam)
  • Merge into single hit of damage instead of DoT, chain effect will over account for the DoT delay that existed before
• Change Aim to "Build Current"
  • Increase to 65% +Dam, 10/s
  • Lower to 15% +ToHit, 10/s
  • Gives +Recovery, 20% 10/s
  • Grants +3 Stacks "Current Charge"
• Tesla Cage
  • Reduce Cast Time to 1.67/s
  • Increase base damage to 150 (as total DoT)
  • These changes bring it in balance with other single target hold attacks in Blast Sets.
• Voltaic Sentinel
  • Previous Attack Removed
  • Now has "Chain Lightning"
    • Max 6 Chains
    • Mag 2 Sleep
      • 40% Chance
      • "Knocks target's synapses out of whack causing target to black out"
• New Mechanic: "Current Charge"
  • Charged Bolts, Lightning Bolt, Ball Lightning
    • -End and -Recovery effect increased by 3% for each stack of "Current Charge" built up.
  • Zapp
    • Consumes "Current Charge" stacks
    • Instant Cast
    • Notified Orange Ring
  • Tesla Cage
    • Consumes "Current Charge" stacks
    • Reduces cast time to 1.1/s
    • Amplifies to -50% Endurance
    • Notified Orange Ring
  • Passive Buff
    • Each stack of "Current Charge" grants 5% Recovery on Player

Solution Solves:

• Improves Single Target performance through correction of Tesla Cage into an appropriate ST attack compared to other Blast Sets, and lowering Lightning Bolt to provide better DPA balance compared to Charged Bolt (very little variance in live format)
• Removes the short coming of Short Circuit forcing an otherwise entirely Ranged set into Melee for one ability that roots the player for an extended period
• Develops more utility out of Voltaic Sentinel, giving it more value in combat and patching up the poor AoE performance of the set
• Addition of "Current Charge" adds additional value and theme to -End/-Recovery debuff, creates trade-off in recovery performance for player as well making the set more forgiving in endurance use, stays in theme, and brings it up to a more appropriate "mid line" package with consumption through Zapp and Tesla Cage. Provides the opportunity to better leverage the secondary effect on Lieutenants and Bosses.

My Elec/Kin Corruptor approves this message.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Myrmidon

[DSorrow]

Several others already addressed many of the problems Elec has, so I'll just highlight what I think are the main issues that have been raised. 

 

1. Lacking a true T3 blast, Elec has pretty low ST damage. This could be mostly fixed by giving Tesla Cage the Freeze Ray treatment.
2. Short Circuit and Ball Lightning could do with some front loaded damage.
3. Some of the animation times are horribly slow, which at least for me makes the set feel very clunky to play. At minimum, I'd look at reducing the animation times of Thunderous Blast and Short Circuit to somewhere in the <2 seconds range.
4. The secondary effect isn't very useful or even interesting. 

I really like the idea of adding chaining damage to Elec Blast, so what if it worked like a Corruptor's Scourge but checked the opponent's Endurance instead of their HP? A minor chance for chaining at full Endurance so it's not useless against targets that resist -End/-Rec and something significantly higher when the target is at 0 with a sliding scale in-between. The -End is now useful even if you don't drain things to 0 and it would be worth to enhance it even if you wouldn't go all out.

 

Oh yeah, and Voltaic Sentinel should stick around for a longer time.

[marcussmythe]

10 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

Proposal for Changes to Electrical Blast:

• Reduce Lighting Bolt's animation time to 1.17/s (down from 1.67/s)
• Turn Short Circuit into a Chain Effect
  • Range 40'
  • Cast time reduced to 2/s and altered to [insert ranged option] that includes the halo effect of the current power
  • Keeps same stats (Rech, -Rec, -End, Cost, Acc, Dam)
  • Merge into single hit of damage instead of DoT, chain effect will over account for the DoT delay that existed before
• Change Aim to "Build Current"
  • Increase to 65% +Dam, 10/s
  • Lower to 15% +ToHit, 10/s
  • Gives +Recovery, 20% 10/s
  • Grants +3 Stacks "Current Charge"
• Tesla Cage
  • Reduce Cast Time to 1.67/s
  • Increase base damage to 150 (as total DoT)
  • These changes bring it in balance with other single target hold attacks in Blast Sets.
• Voltaic Sentinel
  • Previous Attack Removed
  • Now has "Chain Lightning"
    • Max 6 Chains
    • Mag 2 Sleep
      • 40% Chance
      • "Knocks target's synapses out of whack causing target to black out"
• New Mechanic: "Current Charge"
  • Charged Bolts, Lightning Bolt, Ball Lightning
    • -End and -Recovery effect increased by 3% for each stack of "Current Charge" built up.
  • Zapp
    • Consumes "Current Charge" stacks
    • Instant Cast
    • Notified Orange Ring
  • Tesla Cage
    • Consumes "Current Charge" stacks
    • Reduces cast time to 1.1/s
    • Amplifies to -50% Endurance
    • Notified Orange Ring
  • Passive Buff
    • Each stack of "Current Charge" grants 5% Recovery on Player

Solution Solves:

• Improves Single Target performance through correction of Tesla Cage into an appropriate ST attack compared to other Blast Sets, and lowering Lightning Bolt to provide better DPA balance compared to Charged Bolt (very little variance in live format)
• Removes the short coming of Short Circuit forcing an otherwise entirely Ranged set into Melee for one ability that roots the player for an extended period
• Develops more utility out of Voltaic Sentinel, giving it more value in combat and patching up the poor AoE performance of the set
• Addition of "Current Charge" adds additional value and theme to -End/-Recovery debuff, creates trade-off in recovery performance for player as well making the set more forgiving in endurance use, stays in theme, and brings it up to a more appropriate "mid line" package with consumption through Zapp and Tesla Cage. Provides the opportunity to better leverage the secondary effect on Lieutenants and Bosses.

Signed in Elec/SR Sentinel.

[Cutter]

Purely from an aesthetic / "cool factor" POV, can Thunderous Blast steal the animation from Amp Up (in Electrical Affinity)? I'd be all over the lightning-throwing set actually calling down a bolt from the blue for its T9.

[Eldyem]

On 7/7/2020 at 3:38 PM, Nemu said:

Maybe change voltaic sentinel to a modal power that allows the player to choose from the above stack benefits depending on the toggle mode.

I think that, if we moved to a stack-based system for electric attacks, I'd either give Voltaic Sentinel the ability to build them up or would make summoning it give full stacks; both would make it feel more impactful, and the current issue with it is that on paper it does pretty decent damage but you obviously barely notice because it's an extra ST attack every 4 seconds.

Or make it fully instant cast (or very fast cast) with max stacks, that'd also work for me.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Eldyem

[kiramon]

On 7/8/2020 at 2:36 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

Where would be the best place for chain lightning?

 

A triggered effect somehow off the ST attacks?

 

A dedicated power?

 

 

I'm still fine with Voltaic Sentinel providing a buff that adds it. Stacking mechanics are cool when it's not the go-to. We have too many of them and they're hardly ever a choice Ahem looking at Psionic Melee.

[Omega-202]

Simplest and easiest boost to start would be to give Tesla Cage the Freeze Ray boost.  Same for Screech in Sonic.  It's crazy to me that FR got a boost to its single target DPS and Sonic and Electric (who needed it more, despite the existence of Zapp) got left out.

 

Cottage rule makes most of the other suggestions proposed here less likely, but I think adding a "chance to chain" effect to the tier 1 and 2 attacks is a relatively clean and easy boost that seems doable. 

 

Up Cage, add the chain and then see how it adds up compared to other sets.  

[Hexquisite]

On 7/6/2020 at 5:50 PM, gameboy1234 said:

Something I've been thinking: Honestly I think there's only so many good mechanics that one can come up with for a good and fun class buff mechanic.  I feel like the idea that one needs to have a unique mechanic for each class is what is causing problems finding good mechanics.  So, why try?  Fury (Brutes) is fun.  Give Blasters Fury.

 

The more hit rolls you throw out, the more damage you get.  Sounds like a great mechanic to me for Blasters.  Also the more you get shot at the more damage you get, but pulling aggro has different connotations for a Blaster as opposed to a Brute.  Let's just pause a moment to remember all of our blasters who (briefly) pulled too much aggro.

 

What? I. . . no. This is not something that should be done. Blasters already do more damage than pretty much every other AT. Fury is for Brutes.

 

And Blasters already have a mechanic. Defiance, which lets them use their t1 and t2 primaries, and t1 secondary while mezzed, and those attacks get a varying damage bonus. Maybe not as apparently useful was Fury or Scourge or Gauntlet, but trust me, most other ATs would love to able to use ANY attacks while under a sleep or a confusion mez.

 

And if that's not good enough, well. . . that's the trade-off for Blasters getting so much higher damage. They get a mechanic that isn't as flashy as the other ATs get.

 

And so I can stay on topic. . . uh, I've never actually played Electric Blast. So I can't really comment on it. I have played other Elec sets though, and one of my current Blasters has the Electricity Manipulation secondary, and I agree completely that End drain needs to be more useful. Only a handful of powers actually give you a portion of the endurance you drain, so I say, either give me a portion of the end drained from every draining attack, or have it inflict some kind of useful status effect as well. I'd be willing to sacrifice a small amount of damage dealt to balance out the benefits of a nice, steady flow of extra endurance flowing into me.

[Takel]

On 7/9/2020 at 1:28 AM, Sir Myshkin said:

Proposal for Changes to Electrical Blast:

As an Elec/Storm Corruptor, I like these.

[Sir Myshkin]

On 7/6/2020 at 5:50 PM, gameboy1234 said:

The more hit rolls you throw out, the more damage you get.  Sounds like a great mechanic to me for Blasters.  Also the more you get shot at the more damage you get, but pulling aggro has different connotations for a Blaster as opposed to a Brute.  Let's just pause a moment to remember all of our blasters who (briefly) pulled too much aggro.

Small history lesson on Defiance (the Blaster Inherent):

 

The current version of Defiance is already in place to what you're thinking: Attack, get +Dam. Each Blaster attack has a specific buff value it bumps Blaster damage by for a small set duration, and they stack up together to give Blaster's a continual buff the more they blast. You may notice that this works an awful lot like Fury, except its set immediate values instead of a gradual building force. That's because Fury was the case-study of a "better choice", but they couldn't just repeat that on Blasters, so they modded to what we have today.

 

The old version of Defiance was based on HP. The more damage the Blaster took, the more Defiance they got, but it was an aggressive exchange and only really started to pay off when the Blaster was <20% of their HP. Blasters used to die a lot. And suicide a lot. It was a dark time, and no one liked it. No one wants to go back to this.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Sir Myshkin

[Heraclea]

On 7/7/2020 at 1:09 PM, Coyote said:

The one suggestion that I really like, regardless of any real solutions, is that chaining lightning would be cool as heck.

Accordingly, by the Rule of Cool, the main way to fix Electric Blast is to give all of its single-target attacks a chance to trigger a chain effect.

Not the snipe, please.  Among other disadvantages it would make Underground iTrial a pain.  And one main purpose of snipes is to take out a single mob without spooking the whole herd.  Otherwise I am fine with that. 

 

An electric/electric blaster was the first blaster I rolled on HC.  This revived a well liked character on Victory.  Currently, though, I find the set less than impressive, and I now have blasters I enjoy a lot more (archery/devices. ice/plants, fire/radiation).  I respecced out of Voltaic Sentinel, never used it.  Endurance drains are overpowered against player characters, underpowered against mobs, and generally take too long to work.  They ought to simulate the effects that the drains have on player characters somehow: make the mobs more subject to mez effects would be one team friendly effect. 

[ImpousVileTerror]

I, uh . . . 

I wouldn't mind it, @Sir Myshkin.  https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/15464-third-class-atos-game-changers/

As an option, anyway.

[ForeverLaxx]

1 hour ago, Sir Myshkin said:

It was a dark time

As a Blaster main on live, I still remember the days of my Blaster brethren dropping from the sky in order to blast mobs off the face of the planet (right before they themselves face-planted onto it). Twas a sad time indeed.

[gameboy1234]

10 hours ago, Sir Myshkin said:

That's because Fury was the case-study of a "better choice", but they couldn't just repeat that on Blasters, so they modded to what we have today.

Well, yes, but that was my point.  Why couldn't they repeat it on Blasters?  It makes no sense.  If they came up with a mechanic that was just as good, fine use it.  But I don't think what they have is just as good.  So there's no reason not to use Fury or something very much like it.  In game design "Don't repeat yourself" is not useful a tenet.

 

[ImpousVileTerror]

It was more about giving each Archetype a "signature" to be uniquely their own thing.  Whether Defiance and Fury are different enough or too different is clearly a point of debate.

Largely the issues with Hero Archetypes is that the Inherents were wither baked-in (Scrappers) or added after-the-fact in an attempt to increase/improve identity.  I'm still not keen on either Vigilance or Containment, and find it sadly ironic that Dominators are better at controlling than Controllers are thanks to Domination.

 

BUT we're getting way off topic now.  This is supposed to just be about Electric Blast in particular, and for any/all Archetypes which have access to it.