Rad or Invuln

[Marshal_General]

I am currently looking at a /SS build and am stuck between rad and inv. The character is a She-Hulk homage so either set would work.

 

There has been so much back and forth, that I have lost track of where we stand for each set.

 

I do know that INV edges rad out for minimal FX.

[marcussmythe]

Both will please you.  Rad for damage.  Invuln for low SFX.  Invuln strong early.  Rad sings at endgame.  Frankly, I went Rad, dont regret it, but unless your She Hulk regularly releases gamma explosions, go invuln.

 

There is no 100% consensus.  My thought is (in an unlimited budget all accolades all incarnates desired at T4) - if both are built for pure tank, Invuln will be tougher, but rad will do more damage.  On a Hybrid build trying to develop serious offense, rad will be about as tough - and do more damage.  On a ‘cheap’ build or for exemplar far down, Invuln will be notably tougher, and if you exemplar a lot, Rad loses more and more of its damage advantage as you go lower.

Edited August 2, 2020 by marcussmythe

[Xanatos]

12 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

I am currently looking at a /SS build and am stuck between rad and inv. The character is a She-Hulk homage so either set would work.

 

There has been so much back and forth, that I have lost track of where we stand for each set.

 

I do know that INV edges rad out for minimal FX.

 

Rad doesn't rely on defense as much as Invuln does.

 

Because of this, Rad pairs better with SS due to the -def from the rage crash having less of an impact, and its AOEs syncing well with Footstomp. (Plus rage's constant +tohit means the +tohit from Invincibiility is less of a boon than it is for other secondaries.)

Edited August 2, 2020 by Xanatos

[Hyperstrike]

6 hours ago, Zer0 Hour said:

@marcussmythemind sharing your rad/ss build?

 

I'm not Marcus.  But.

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Rad-SS Blood from a Stone: Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Radiation Armor
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Alpha Barrier -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(3), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(3), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(5), ImpArm-ResDam:40(5), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(7)
Level 1: Jab -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg:50(7), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(9), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(9), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(11), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%:50(11)
Level 2: Gamma Boost -- Prv-Heal:50(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx:50(13), Prv-Heal/Rchg:50(13), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx:50(15)
Level 4: Haymaker -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg:50(19), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(21), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(21), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(23), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb:50(23)
Level 6: Proton Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(25), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(27), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(27)
Level 8: Fallout Shelter -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(29), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(29), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(31), ImpArm-ResDam:40(31), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(31)
Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%:50(A)
Level 12: Radiation Therapy -- Mlt-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Mlt-Dmg/Rchg:50(33), Mlt-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), DctWnd-Heal:50(33), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg:50(34), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:50(34)
Level 14: Beta Decay -- AchHee-ResDeb%:20(A)
Level 16: Combat Jumping -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:50(A), Rct-ResDam%:50(34)
Level 18: Particle Shielding -- Prv-Heal:50(A), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg:50(36), Prv-Heal/Rchg:50(36), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx:50(36)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx:50(37), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(37), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(37), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(39), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc:50(39)
Level 22: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%:50(A)
Level 24: Tough -- ImpArm-ResPsi:40(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(39), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(40), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(40), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(40), ImpArm-ResDam:40(42)
Level 26: Ground Zero -- FuroftheG-Dam/Rech:50(A), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(42), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc:50(43)
Level 28: Rage -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(43), GssSynFr--Build%:50(43)
Level 30: Weave -- Rct-Def:50(A)
Level 32: Meltdown -- ImpArm-ResPsi:40(A), Ags-Psi/Status:50(45)
Level 35: Hurl -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg:50(45), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(46), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(46)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(46), Arm-Acc/Rchg:50(48), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), Arm-Dam%:50(48), FrcFdb-Rechg%:50(50)
Level 41: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(50)
Level 44: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- Prv-Absorb%:50(A), RgnTss-Regen+:30(50)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End:50(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(15), Mrc-Rcvry+:40(17)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod:50(17), PwrTrns-+Heal:50(19)
------------

 

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[Sovera]

6 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

I am currently looking at a /SS build and am stuck between rad and inv. The character is a She-Hulk homage so either set would work.

 

There has been so much back and forth, that I have lost track of where we stand for each set.

 

I do know that INV edges rad out for minimal FX.

Radiation Therapy at level 16 will be your heal -and- your endurance recovery all the way to level 200. And on a super short timer.

[Glowman]

Thanks Hyperstrike!

[Hyperstrike]

13 hours ago, marcussmythe said:

Both will please you.  Rad for damage.  Invuln for low SFX.  Invuln strong early.  Rad sings at endgame.  Frankly, I went Rad, dont regret it, but unless your She Hulk regularly releases gamma explosions, go invuln.

 

There is no 100% consensus.  My thought is (in an unlimited budget all accolades all incarnates desired at T4) - if both are built for pure tank, Invuln will be tougher, but rad will do more damage.  On a Hybrid build trying to develop serious offense, rad will be about as tough - and do more damage.  On a ‘cheap’ build or for exemplar far down, Invuln will be notably tougher, and if you exemplar a lot, Rad loses more and more of its damage advantage as you go lower.

Invuln will be marginally tougher.

Rad will act like a poor man's Regen, but with MASSIVE resists.

[marcussmythe]

And the version I'm using... everything good about it is Sir Myshkin's work.  Everything less than good is a matter of my fiddling with it - I usually trade off some performance for comfort, due to personal preference.

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.1.25
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Rad SS Tanker: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Radiation Armor
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Experimentation
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Alpha Barrier -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam(3), ImpArm-ResPsi(39), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(40), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 1: Jab -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(7)
Level 2: Gamma Boost -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), PrfShf-End%(9)
Level 4: Proton Armor -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(11), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(13), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(13), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(15), UnbGrd-Max HP%(15)
Level 6: Fallout Shelter -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam(17), ImpArm-ResPsi(37)
Level 8: Radiation Therapy -- Prv-Heal/Rchg(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(17), Obl-%Dam(19), Erd-%Dam(19), ScrDrv-Dam%(21), TchoftheN-%Dam(21)
Level 10: Boxing -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), Hct-Acc/Rchg(23), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(25), Hct-Dam%(25), Mk'Bit-Dam%(27)
Level 12: Beta Decay -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A)
Level 14: Kick -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(29)
Level 16: Tough -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Ags-ResDam(31), Ags-Psi/Status(31), ImpArm-ResPsi(39)
Level 18: Particle Shielding -- Prv-Heal/Rchg(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(31), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(33)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), UnbCns-Dam%(33), TchofDth-Dam%(34), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(34), FrcFdb-Rechg%(34)
Level 22: Cross Punch -- ScrDrv-Dmg/EndRdx(A), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), ScrDrv-Dam%(36), Erd-%Dam(36), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(37), FrcFdb-Rechg%(37)
Level 24: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 26: Ground Zero -- Obl-%Dam(A), ShlBrk-%Dam(27), TchofLadG-%Dam(29), Erd-%Dam(40)
Level 28: Rage -- GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(A), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 30: Toxic Dart -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Meltdown -- UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(A), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(42), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(42), ImpArm-ResPsi(50)
Level 35: Gloom -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), Dcm-Build%(43), Apc-Dam%(43), GldJvl-Dam%(43), CldSns-%Dam(45)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(45), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Erd-%Dam(46), Obl-%Dam(46), FrcFdb-Rechg%(46)
Level 41: Speed of Sound -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 44: Adrenal Booster -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 47: Combat Jumping -- ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(48), Rct-ResDam%(48)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- HO:Micro(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(9)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(11)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany 
------------

 

[Hyperstrike]

5 minutes ago, marcussmythe said:

And the version I'm using... everything good about it is Sir Myshkin's work.  Everything less than good is a matter of my fiddling with it - I usually trade off some performance for comfort, due to personal preference.

 

 

Wait.  You went with a Tauntless Tanker?

TURN IN YOUR TANK CARD!

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Hyperstrike said:

Wait.  You went with a Tauntless Tanker?

TURN IN YOUR TANK CARD!

Taunt is fine if you need a crutch.   Hehe

 

None of my tankers have it.

 

The only one that ever steals agro from me is Myr, but is because they are so dang awesome. 😂

[marcussmythe]

I keep it on my primary build of my main, as thats the outfit I wear for exemplaring and I find it useful in low-level TFs, where my AOE hasnt matured and Im taking for a collection of often new players with very aggressive play styles.

[Hyperstrike]

3 hours ago, Infinitum said:

Taunt is fine if you need a crutch.   Hehe

 

None of my tankers have it.

 

The only one that ever steals agro from me is Myr, but is because they are so dang awesome. 😂

 

You're a Scrapper with delusions of godhood.

[Infinitum]

35 minutes ago, Hyperstrike said:

 

You're a Scrapper with delusions of godhood.

Delusions mean it isnt happening.

 

So your statement isnt true. 😉

[Bopper]

If it wasn't for the fact Taunt is auto-hit, I probably would skip it too. Between Epic AoEs and general jumping around punch-voking everything, it would be superfluous to have Taunt. But when there are times when there's an AV with insane defense buffs, it's nice making sure you can keep the AV stuck on you.

 

Luckily, Taunt has good set bonus options, so if you can fit the slots, it's not wasted.

[Sovera]

I've mentioned how I swapped Taunt for Assault. I'd love Taunt if it actually worked and mobs would get mad at me like in other games. But here I use it and the mob goes to attack NPCs or keeps on attacking other team members. If it only works on regular enemies then there is not point to it IMO, except in niche cases a la tanking Hami. Regular enemies are not particularly dangerous in a level 50 world where Barriers are tossed around willy nilly.

 

In fact, my first experience with the 801 AE missions was almost disappointing since we were several with Barrier and we spammed it. We went around with 70-100% defense all the time as anyone can imagine not even squishies are squishies with those sort of numbers floating around.

[Xanatos]

Taunt is good because:

-Autohit

-No end cost

-Duration is longer than punchvoke

-Has a wider AOE taunt radius than ranged ST attacks (15 vs 10)

-Your character makes a weird frog noise

[DrBasics]

23 minutes ago, Xanatos said:

Taunt is good because:

-Autohit

-No end cost

-Duration is longer than punchvoke

-Has a wider AOE taunt radius than ranged ST attacks (15 vs 10)

-Your character makes a weird frog noise

Don't forget that on some sets, there is a cool ass animation. My favorite is Dual Blades or Katana.

[Bill Z Bubba]

On 8/3/2020 at 10:06 AM, DrBasics said:

Don't forget that on some sets, there is a cool ass animation. My favorite is Dual Blades or Katana.

I love that mace on shield action as my favorite taunt animation.

[Gobbledigook]

One bonus on Rads side is it doesn't need endurance help whereas Invuln might need it. That opens up Rebirth or Barrier Destiny for extra survival. Also more damage is more survival, kill them before they kill you.

 

With enough mobs around and enough +recharge, Rad Therapy will fill health and endurance up also quite often and that's only if they break through the Absorb.

 

But invuln is great also.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Gobbledegook

[Werner]

7 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I love that mace on shield action as my favorite taunt animation.

Wait, what? I must see this! Nooooooo, my Shield/Mace on beta doesn't have Taunt. 😢

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, Werner said:

Wait, what? I must see this! Nooooooo, my Shield/Mace on beta doesn't have Taunt. 😢

HEATHEN!!!!

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, Gobbledegook said:

One bonus on Rads side is it doesn't need endurance help whereas Invuln might need it. That opens up Rebirth or Barrier Destiny for extra survival. Also more damage is more survival, kill them before they kill you.

 

With enough mobs around and enough +recharge, Rad Therapy will fill health and endurance up also quite often and that's only if they break through the Absorb.

 

But invuln is great also.

I dunno.  I can get an Invuln's resting End consumption down below 1 End/sec (remember, in many cases, you can just flat out turn Tough off).
So if you're already rocking 3.something End/Sec recovery?  Unless you're taking and USING Unstoppable, you're not running out of End unless you get Sapper-slapped.

[Sovera]

6 hours ago, Werner said:

Wait, what? I must see this! Nooooooo, my Shield/Mace on beta doesn't have Taunt. 😢

Switch to your alternate build and nab it.

[Gobbledigook]

7 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

I dunno.  I can get an Invuln's resting End consumption down below 1 End/sec (remember, in many cases, you can just flat out turn Tough off).
So if you're already rocking 3.something End/Sec recovery?  Unless you're taking and USING Unstoppable, you're not running out of End unless you get Sapper-slapped.

I was thinking of TWs or other end hungry sets mostly. But yea invuln isn't bad at all. 

[Xanatos]

10 hours ago, Gobbledegook said:

One bonus on Rads side is it doesn't need endurance help whereas Invuln might need it. That opens up Rebirth or Barrier Destiny for extra survival. Also more damage is more survival, kill them before they kill you.

 

With enough mobs around and enough +recharge, Rad Therapy will fill health and endurance up also quite often and that's only if they break through the Absorb.

 

But invuln is great also.

 

Invuln's endurance hole can be plugged pretty easily with IOs and Cardiac.

 

From there, all you need is the def debuff Ageless when fighting -def enemies, or Barrier when fighting everything else. (Barrier is more to help keep the team alive tbh.)

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Xanatos