Enter base from passcode

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Myrmidon said:

Where did this idea come from, because I haven’t seen any Dev posts about this beyond the will only get rid of the code when they have a viable alternative. Is there a viable alternative available in some magic patch that we missed?

It's not a matter of "missed." They are still working on patches and updates. Wait and see what's coming up.

[Infinitum]

52 minutes ago, unblocked said:

Because in case all the defenders of base teleport removal forgot, blueside missions become utter bull at higher levels with their dumb talk to npc in Atlas, go to ass end of IP, now beat 300 dudes in Folly, now go back to Atlas crap. It's unplayable to anyone who values their time and base teleport is the only thing that makes this prehistoric mmo crap bearable today.

Yeah this is true,  modern TFs like apex and tin mage take place in the same compound - let alone zone.  The basecode makes numina a lot more bearable.

 

But not only that, it makes frequent gathering and administrative functions in the base easier to not waste time getting to.

[retiarius]

1 hour ago, srmalloy said:

If you take the code behind the enterbasefrompasscode command and add the "in combat check" from movement suppression to disable its use if the character is in combat, then it's no longer usable to escape from defeat in the middle of combat, and reverts to being a non-combat travel aid.

This would be perfectly fine by me -- alter the way the command is usable under certain conditions instead of removing it completely.

[Grouchybeast]

@philtrum - Heeeeeeeey!  Nice to see you :-)  I don't know if you remember me, but I used to join your speed ITFs on Defiant.

 

The last time I saw a dev post about enterbasefrompasscode, they said that it wouldn't be removed until there was a replacement.  IIRC, the thinking was something like the Ouro power, that would allow a temporary base portal to be created anywhere.  Passcode macros would still work, if used next to a base portal (permanent or temporary).  So basically, it would preserve the convenience and functionality while adding a cast time to stop it being used as a get-out-of-death-free trick.

[Pzn]

4 hours ago, FoulVileTerror said:

Still working on Live.

Still working on Beta.

Still working on Staging.

 

So, unless it's been disabled on Private Beta, I wouldn't say there is an immediate cause for concern.

 

I feel the command is an excellent example of an unintended feature, and I do hope the Devs make a meaningful replacement, such as a public-access drop-pseudopet Power like the Ouroboros Portal.  A Homecoming Team member did once suggest that was going to be their approach, but that particular thread was probably last year and hidden/deleted long ago.  Whether that is still their intent, or ever was, is frustratingly unconfirmed.

This was what I remember being said as well.  That the sg tp macros would not be removed until an alternative with the same functionality was added.  I think that something like ouro portals would be fine.

[Dragon Crush]

5 hours ago, srmalloy said:

 We already have an example of powers being restricted in combat -- movement suppression, which limits travel powers when your character is in combat. If you take the code behind the enterbasefrompasscode command and add the "in combat check" from movement suppression to disable its use if the character is in combat, then it's no longer usable to escape from defeat in the middle of combat, and reverts to being a non-combat travel aid.

I agree that sounds like an ideal solution

[macskull]

19 hours ago, Dragon Crush said:

I agree that sounds like an ideal solution

The issue there is "movement suppression" only exists when the player uses attacks, not when NPCs use attacks against the player. It'd be better to tie it to combat status like fast snipe. When this topic came up last year (or was it earlier this year, I don't remember) there was some discussion about wanting some changes to the way the existing SG base powers worked before removing access to the command, so fingers crossed that it'll end up as an acceptable solution for most people.

[PeregrineFalcon]

I do not understand why the base passcode macro "must" go away. Ok, so it was a dev command. So? Flying was once something only birds do, now we do it all of the time.

 

I don't know how many times I've been creating IOs for the players in my SG and I go out the portal, use the auction house to buy salvage, passcode back to base, go out the portal, use the auction house to buy salvage, passcode back to base, repeat, repeat, repeat. Thanks to the base passcode macro I'm able to do all of this in under 2 minutes, instead of a half-hour.

 

The passcode macro taking almost no time, and having no recharge, is WHY we like it. It's WHY it's useful.

 

While you're "fixing" the base passcode thingy don't forget to re-enable prestige for supergroup bases. Cause we all need more time-sinks, right? You need to keep us in game longer, keep us subscribing. Let's drop the 2XP from the P2W vendor too while you're at it. After all, it let's you level too quickly, and we all remember how much Positron hates that!

 

What's that? The PvPers don't like it? What, all eleven-teen of them? Well, then they don't have to use it. My friends and I having it available, and using it, does NOT in any way affect PvP.

 

Oh noes! The base passcode can be used to escape from combat. So can the exit button. So can teleport. So can placate. So what?

 

Look, please don't think I'm insulting anyone. That's not what I'm trying to do. But none of your arguments make any sense. The only real argument I've seen so far is; "I'm a developer and it's cause I said so." Well, that at least makes sense, but where I come from it's what's called "a d*** move."

[Haijinx]

Do the people who PVP actually use this as an escape hatch now? 

 

I mean is it actually a thing?  

 

And is it people who PVP or merely people in PVP zones doing it? 

 

[HelenCarnate]

2 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I do not understand why the base passcode macro "must" go away. Ok, so it was a dev command. So? Flying was once something only birds do, now we do it all of the time.

 

I don't know how many times I've been creating IOs for the players in my SG and I go out the portal, use the auction house to buy salvage, passcode back to base, go out the portal, use the auction house to buy salvage, passcode back to base, repeat, repeat, repeat. Thanks to the base passcode macro I'm able to do all of this in under 2 minutes, instead of a half-hour.

 

The passcode macro taking almost no time, and having no recharge, is WHY we like it. It's WHY it's useful.

 

While you're "fixing" the base passcode thingy don't forget to re-enable prestige for supergroup bases. Cause we all need more time-sinks, right? You need to keep us in game longer, keep us subscribing. Let's drop the 2XP from the P2W vendor too while you're at it. After all, it let's you level too quickly, and we all remember how much Positron hates that!

 

What's that? The PvPers don't like it? What, all eleven-teen of them? Well, then they don't have to use it. My friends and I having it available, and using it, does NOT in any way affect PvP.

 

Oh noes! The base passcode can be used to escape from combat. So can the exit button. So can teleport. So can placate. So what?

 

Look, please don't think I'm insulting anyone. That's not what I'm trying to do. But none of your arguments make any sense. The only real argument I've seen so far is; "I'm a developer and it's cause I said so." Well, that at least makes sense, but where I come from it's what's called "a d*** move."

Exit button still leaves your character around and it can be defeated after you have closed the game.  Teleport moves you away from the area but you can still be followed and killed.  Placate is temporary and not something everyone has access too.  Passcode to base lets you leave without being defeated and without having to be a certain AT or have a certain power.  

[Monos King]

2 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Look, please don't think I'm insulting anyone. That's not what I'm trying to do. But none of your arguments make any sense. The only real argument I've seen so far is; "I'm a developer and it's cause I said so." Well, that at least makes sense, but where I come from it's what's called "a d*** move."

Your argument is the one that doesn't make sense. In fact, I don't think you've made a single point, all you've done is show a flagrant lack of understanding as to why the exploit is being revoked. I'm not one of those shouting for a removal, but you have to understand that comments like these do truly nothing to help your stance. Here's a consideration starters pack:

 

1. Use in no death badge runs
2. Use in escaping mission objections
3. Effect on relevance of travel powers
4. Review the consequences in PvP

Come back having weighed the positives and negatives of each of these, and maybe some solutions, and I'm sure you'll be heard. As it stands, you really are just disqualifying those opinions from even being considered.

[srmalloy]

4 hours ago, macskull said:

The issue there is "movement suppression" only exists when the player uses attacks, not when NPCs use attacks against the player. It'd be better to tie it to combat status like fast snipe.

You're missing the point. I was using movement suppression as an example to show that there is already a function built into the server code that detects whether a character is in combat or not, suggesting that this code could be repurposed to make the same check to enable/disable the functionality of the 'enterbasefrompasscode' command.

[HelenCarnate]

19 minutes ago, Monos King said:

Your argument is the one that doesn't make sense. In fact, I don't think you've made a single point, all you've done is show a flagrant lack of understanding as to why the exploit is being revoked. I'm not one of those shouting for a removal, but you have to understand that comments like these do truly nothing to help your stance. Here's a consideration starters pack:

 

1. Use in no death badge runs
2. Use in escaping mission objections
3. Effect on relevance of travel powers
4. Review the consequences in PvP

Come back having weighed the positives and negatives of each of these, and maybe some solutions, and I'm sure you'll be heard. As it stands, you really are just disqualifying those opinions from even being considered.

Number 1 for sure. I myself have used it to escape a master MSTF.  Recluse got loose and I was hit to a sliver of health and probably would have died had I not ported out.  

[Greycat]

3 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I do not understand why the base passcode macro "must" go away. Ok, so it was a dev command. So? Flying was once something only birds do, now we do it all of the time.

 

Talk about completely irrelevant. In terms of *the game,* we've been flying since issue 0.

 

Honestly, none of your arguments or comparisons make any sense. It is supposed to be a dev only command. There are issues with it. There are whispers of exploits with it - and I don't mean getting out of combat.  Players are not supposed to have it, period.

 

The existence (or not) of prestige or of 2xp has nothing to do with players having access to a dev command. Those were intentional changes rolled out to the playerbase. An exposed dev command is not. You're comparing apples and wallpaper. It doesn't help your argument.

 

Meanwhile, as I've said repeatedly - wait and see what they do instead. If they were *just* going to flat out remove it, they would have. (Frankly, IMHO they should have within a week of it being available.) Obviously they have SOMETHING planned as a replacement. So sit down and wait. Wait for them to say "hey, it's on beta, give feedback." Then at least you'll have an inkling of what's happening and can give meaningful feedback.

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 hour ago, Monos King said:

Your argument is the one that doesn't make sense. In fact, I don't think you've made a single point, all you've done is show a flagrant lack of understanding as to why the exploit is being revoked. I'm not one of those shouting for a removal, but you have to understand that comments like these do truly nothing to help your stance. Here's a consideration starters pack:

 

1. Use in no death badge runs
2. Use in escaping mission objections
3. Effect on relevance of travel powers
4. Review the consequences in PvP

Come back having weighed the positives and negatives of each of these, and maybe some solutions, and I'm sure you'll be heard. As it stands, you really are just disqualifying those opinions from even being considered.

You're correct. I did not understand why the exploit will be revoked. Prior to your post the only reasons I'd seen given (not saying that more information isn't out there, just that I hadn't seen it) was "It's an exploit" and "Cause PvP."

 

1) Ok, while that wouldn't affect me, as I'm not a badge collector, I can see where that'd be a problem. I wasn't aware that "no death badge runs" was a thing.

2) Couldn't you already use the Base Teleporter or Pocket D Teleporter to accomplish this?

3) It doesn't really make travel powers irrelevant. After traveling to a zone you still have to cross the zone. The base passcode doesn't really help with that.

4) Yeah. I'm not one of the dozen or so players who cares about PvP. And, since the PvPers are such a tiny minority in this game, I don't believe that the Homecoming devs should worry about them either. Just my opinion of course.

 

Thank you for your informative post, Monos King.

[Apparition]

I will say that the enter base from passcode slash command/macro has negatively impacted the game for some people, including myself.  I stopped joining PUG teams several months ago because people were being expected to use it, and haven't done Master of TF/SF badge runs because some people were now making people have a base macro in their power trays as a requirement to join.

[Infinitum]

27 minutes ago, Apparition said:

I will say that the enter base from passcode slash command/macro has negatively impacted the game for some people, including myself.  I stopped joining PUG teams several months ago because people were being expected to use it, and haven't done Master of TF/SF badge runs because some people were now making people have a base macro in their power trays as a requirement to join.

We play every night and thats the exception, not the rule.  Yeah some people can be unreasonable, but its their team, if you join - thats on you.

 

This is why it should have been removed at the onset, because its been advertised, and even promoted on these very forums in some cases - so a lot of this negative feedback is warranted.

[Vanden]

5 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

We play every night and thats the exception, not the rule.  Yeah some people can be unreasonable, but its their team, if you join - thats on you.

 

This is why it should have been removed at the onset, because its been advertised, and even promoted on these very forums in some cases - so a lot of this negative feedback is warranted.

They saw how much we liked our new toy even though it was bad for us, and let us keep it while they worked on making an appropriate replacement rather than take it away immediately, and this is how they get thanked for it.

[Alchemystic]

Step 1: Go to the P2W vendor
Step 2: Purchase the Base Transporter power

Step 3: Activate the power

[Apparition]

28 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

We play every night and thats the exception, not the rule.  Yeah some people can be unreasonable, but its their team, if you join - thats on you.

 

This is why it should have been removed at the onset, because its been advertised, and even promoted on these very forums in some cases - so a lot of this negative feedback is warranted.

 

It's more the rule than the exception from my experience.  Regardless, the negative feedback is unwarranted as it reads like children whining about their favorite toy being taken away after being repeatedly warned over the past fourteen months that it would do exactly that.

[Moka]

I don't see it happening anytime soon.

[Ruin Mage]

The command was never intended.
It's not going away until viable alternatives are found.

Breathe. It's not the end of the world.

[Infinitum]

17 minutes ago, Apparition said:

 

It's more the rule than the exception from my experience.  Regardless, the negative feedback is unwarranted as it reads like children whining about their favorite toy being taken away after being repeatedly warned over the past fourteen months that it would do exactly that.

Yeah go look at the base section, or excelsior server section, the code is advertised with maybe the occasional blurb about it going away.   

 

read the last sentence of what you said also - first of all it wasnt repeatedly warned. Secondly - 14 months.   Even if people caught the warning it becomes hollow once its not enforced.

 

insulting people by calling them children whining isnt going to win any arguments either. It has been a function for about as long as HC has existed and many people dont and wont understand that its an exploit and needs to be removed.

 

Being heavy handed with this is not the answer whether you like it or not or agree with it or not.

[Infinitum]

45 minutes ago, Vanden said:

They saw how much we liked our new toy even though it was bad for us, and let us keep it while they worked on making an appropriate replacement rather than take it away immediately, and this is how they get thanked for it.

uh, yeah thats not a good point, why exactly is it bad for us?  i have never had a pixle harm me.  I am an adult and can decide if something is bad for me and that doesnt classify as something that is.

 

So yeah thats not the reason - if there is a reason.

 

1. If it was bad for the game or us - how responsible are they for not removing it then?

2. If it is not bad for us or the game - why remove it at all?

3. If the bad portions are patched why not leave or replace the utility portion of it?

 

Those are all questions i will wait and see if we get agreeable answers on as this is rolled out some day.

 

I believe i understand why it will be removed and even agree with it largely - but its up to them ultimately how soft the implementation and forced conversion will be.

[macskull]

4 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

4) Yeah. I'm not one of the dozen or so players who cares about PvP. And, since the PvPers are such a tiny minority in this game, I don't believe that the Homecoming devs should worry about them either. Just my opinion of course.

Considering the Homecoming PvP Discord has over 1300 members I'd say you're underestimating the PvP population by at least two orders of magnitude. But by all means, continue pretending a group of players that enjoy a different part of the game than you aren't worth the developers' time.