Focused Feedback: Energy Melee Revamp

[Leogunner]

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

Barrage being -regen and stun favors tankers

 

I don't see how that favors Tanker anymore than any other AT.

 

4 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

 

PC - is favored on tankers with larger target cap and stalkers - increased dmg.

 

Doesn't really have anything to do with EF since Tanker just has a larger cap by default or that Stalker lacks any other AoE option.

 

I also notice a lack of Brute mentioned...but just springboarding off of the idea of having different spenders, you not only can tailor at least 1 effect to better contribute to the AT in some fashion while also promoting more replayability.  

 

6 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

 

As far as stuns go, its reliable, by any normal attack chain of any power choice combination you are going to get stuns reliably.

 

Its a very versatile set that offers up different strengths across all ATs while being reliable in each of those offerings.

I think you've said this to me three times now.  Are there definitive calculations on stun chance, animation time and mez duration?  AFAIK, there don't seem to be any stun chance changes (well, I mean, not including changing Stun, the power) only cast time changes.

[Infinitum]

20 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

I don't see how that favors Tanker anymore than any other AT.

its a tankers inherant T1 - barrage isnt a widely chosen power, but tankers are gifted with it.  

 

With it being a focus user it adds a layer to tanker EM that probably wont be chosen by many on the other ATs

 

20 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

I think you've said this to me three times now.  Are there definitive calculations on stun chance, animation time and mez duration?  AFAIK, there don't seem to be any stun chance changes (well, I mean, not including changing Stun, the power) only cast time changes

just twice.  Theres not much to say other than its reliable and useful, and doesnt need any more attention.

 

20 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

also notice a lack of Brute mentioned...but just springboarding off of the idea of having different spenders, you not only can tailor at least 1 effect to better contribute to the AT in some fashion while also promoting more replayability.  

brutes have fury, high dmg + high dmg cap - brute uses its inherant to scale with everything in the set well.

20 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

Doesn't really have anything to do with EF since Tanker just has a larger cap by default or that Stalker lacks any other AoE option.

Tankers cap increases under focus

 

Stalker PC has higher dmg and longer recharge than the other ATs.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Infinitum

[Leogunner]

27 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

its a tankers inherant T1 - barrage isnt a widely chosen power, but tankers are gifted with it.  

 

With it being a focus user it adds a layer to tanker EM that probably wont be chosen by many on the other ATs

That doesn't favor Tanker though.  That merely aids them in breaking even which kind of falls off since their limited focus spending will be split but by your logic, it disfavors Brutes too.

 

29 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Theres not much to say other than its reliable and useful, and doesnt need any more attention.

 

And what if I said I'm not convinced by your statement?  You'll probably tell me to try it myself.  I only have access to the forums via my phone although I probably will be back home next week.  I'd be more convinced with some evidence though.

 

32 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

brutes have fury, high dmg + high dmg cap - brute uses its inherant to scale with everything in the set well.

Tankers cap increases under focus

 

Stalker PC has higher dmg and longer recharge than the other ATs.

Energy Focus doesn't increase damage so there really isn't any AT synergy with Fury and EF.  The point I was making is Stalker and Scrapper get a separate benefit of multi-stacks of Focus.  You could say that is a byproduct of their inherent ability to crit and compensation for not getting extra/full damage crits and that wouldn't be a particular incongruency with Tanker/Brute...if focus had some other source.  Because TF is the only source, it becomes a limitation the set didn't normally contend with.

 

But regardless, I'm not really the person you have to convince.  Overall, I'm indifferent either way as I can be rather open to entertaining various ideas and suggestions (it's what I enjoy most) but I get the feeling you hold a strong bias to the contrary, namely that any kind of possible alternatives would require "getting nerfed into oblivion" which I don't believe would happen and even if it did, you still should take these changes in the context that this is a beta test server...

[Super Atom]

So steering right back to actual feedback from testing before a GM detonates the thread again

 

I don't really see the point in "more stun" to be honest. Did a lot of early level gameplay on my brute level 20 to be specific and I was stunning guys left and right, more so they didn't really live very long. I feel like if i did any more stun to my foes I'd basically be the highest damage controller around. More stuns 100% not needed. I didn't even have power crash yet so It's only gonna get more frequent.

 

 

qucik edit: Only using SO's

Edited November 3, 2020 by Super Atom

[BrandX]

It seems the only reason people care about where the -Regen/-Special/More Stun is located, is because they believe they're going to get double ET in that Double Energy Focus all the time.  I'd call the double EF a bonus, not worry about spending it on Barrage or Bone Smasher (if it even goes back to BS).

 

As for the other ATs that don't get double EF, I'd imagine under most circumstances, the idea will be to use the EF for fast ET, not worrying about a boosted Stun.  Now, there may be a reason for a melee to want to use that boosted BS, but it'd like be rare and easily able to sacrifice a fast ET to get it.

[Direct Crit]

2 hours ago, BrandX said:

It seems the only reason people care about where the -Regen/-Special/More Stun is located, is because they believe they're going to get double ET in that Double Energy Focus all the time.  I'd call the double EF a bonus, not worry about spending it on Barrage or Bone Smasher (if it even goes back to BS).

 

As for the other ATs that don't get double EF, I'd imagine under most circumstances, the idea will be to use the EF for fast ET, not worrying about a boosted Stun.  Now, there may be a reason for a melee to want to use that boosted BS, but it'd like be rare and easily able to sacrifice a fast ET to get it.

It's not 'all the time' but for a high-end build on a crit AT, and especially for Stalker, it is very possible to regularly trigger the bonus EF. At that point (specifically again for high-end builds) the EF consumption in Bone Smasher punishes generally optimal play and crit-ATs essentially get a 'penalty' compared to if they either didn't have BS consume that EF, or if they had gotten flat crit in TF over the bonus EF. It just doesn't feel good, and that was the main crux of the argument for myself at least.

Is the effect still a bonus? Sure, of course it is. Is it a bonus that an optimized player cares about versus a massive DPA increase on a 1-second ET? No, not particularly. Especially doing iTrial content or running +4x8 these sorts of builds weren't exactly going to be hurting for the Stun, -Special, or -Regen. By shifting it to Barrage you now give all the damage oriented ATs the option to opt into the bonus effect if they really want, you don't punish people who don't care about it and want to optimize for more damage, and the non-Crit ATs are more or less unaffected except for Brutes grabbing Barrage over Energy Punch now.

In the end it is, imo, an elegant solution that hits both sides. People who want the effect can opt into it, people who don't, don't. The only AT forced to get it is Tanks and Tanks already did not suffer from the 'penalty' of an extra EF being consumed by including the -Special/Regen effect on another attack anyways and instead get to use the EF buff as flexibly as was seemingly intended.

Edit: Of course the best of both worlds could be that for Stalkers/Scrappers the effect is tied to Barrage and Brutes/Tanks it's moved back to Bone Smasher since they never had the bonus EF issue to begin with. We do have precedent for powers/bonuses operating differently across ATs.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Tactical

[Golden Azrael]

Choice.  The variety of combat options.

 

I liked using the Bone Smasher to 100% put that Boss into tweety pie land.  60%?  Meh.  Nothing special about that.  When you can 100% stun?  That elevates BS to something more special befitting the name.  Now it's just plain vanilla BS. 🙂

 

60%.  I found the stun on that very random.  'Might happen.'

 

Maybe I don't want to 'short' ET every time?  I like to mix combat up a bit.  I liked being able to cycle through a choice of options of stun, AoE stacking or 'short' ET depending on the situation.

 

Maybe it's a guy thing.  But I don't like big banging something quickly. 😄  So 'this is the most direct combat chain and I'll use this every time on everything?'  Nope.  I don't like combat to be that rigid.

 

Build one had that bit more variety with a  BS that could stun or could use it non-TF vanilla if you wanted to.  Now.  You can only use it?  One way.  The 'same' way.

 

Don't think it's as good in Barrage.  Feels weaker, less emphatic.  Less appropriate.  I'd happily see Barrage keep all he debuffs.  But return the BS 100% stun back even if it meant slightly less dam.

 

Sometimes the 1st idea is the best idea.  And Build 1 I liked.  Lots.  Had a better flow.

 

The 2nd build is, that aside, more refined/very smooth and polished.  ET 'timing' tweak etc.

 

I'm not fussed about having a chance for double EF all the time.  Is that something for Scrappers?

 

I'd rather the Tank's BS keep that stun whopper.  Makes the attack more emphatic.

 

It's in Beta.  So I'm making the case.  That's the point of feed back.  Combat wise the 1st one had it.  

 

In a general AT tank point.  Perhaps all Tier 1s could have -reg or - def to emphasis (or - res) that when you get hit by a tank?  You get hurt.  And when you get hit by eg. Havoc Punch or BS?  You could rocked on your heels.  HP gets the KB?  I'd like BS to get that 100% stun.

 

Ok.  I'll stop now.  😉

 

Azrael.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Infinitum]

7 hours ago, Leogunner said:

That doesn't favor Tanker though

I'll keep this short and sweet, yes it does.

 

You want to label it my personal opinion - thats fine - I think it benefits tankers and im sticking to that.

7 hours ago, Leogunner said:

And what if I said I'm not convinced by your statement?  You'll probably tell me to try it myself.  I only have access to the forums via my phone although I probably will be back home next week.  I'd be more convinced with some evidence though.

Well yeah, and I dont mean this is in a rude way, but you do need to try it.

 

Since you haven't yet played it, your only evidence is that several people have confirmed what I'm telling you - through testing this extensively.

 

This is a feedback thread, and since by your own admission you havent played it - you would kinda need to do that to be able to know whether my feedback and others was convincing.

 

Thats completely up to you though, but any statement about the validity of my feedback from you is weightless until you actually play the set.

7 hours ago, Leogunner said:

Energy Focus doesn't increase damage so there really isn't any AT synergy with Fury and EF.

Yes, there is because the brute will have much higher numbers than the tanker and pretty close to the scrapper stalker simply because of fury and high dmg cap alone.  The capability is there for a brute to do insane numbers with this - again requires testing for you to base a reliable opinion based on the feedback from my testing.

7 hours ago, Leogunner said:

But regardless, I'm not really the person you have to convince.  Overall, I'm indifferent either way as I can be rather open to entertaining various ideas and suggestions (it's what I enjoy most) but I get the feeling you hold a strong bias to the contrary, namely that any kind of possible alternatives would require "getting nerfed into oblivion" which I don't believe would happen and even if it did, you still should take these changes in the context that this is a beta test server...

Thats why we are testing it and providing feedback - that it stuns reliably and no further changes are needed.

 

If once you test that - you find otherwise post your feedback then, but until then - theres really nothing more to say about it really.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Infinitum

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, Golden Azrael said:

Choice.  The variety of combat options.

 

I liked using the Bone Smasher to 100% put that Boss into tweety pie land.  60%?  Meh.  Nothing special about that.  When you can 100% stun?  That elevates BS to something more special befitting the name.  Now it's just plain vanilla BS. 🙂

 

60%.  I found the stun on that very random.  'Might happen.'

 

Maybe I don't want to 'short' ET every time?  I like to mix combat up a bit.  I liked being able to cycle through a choice of options of stun, AoE stacking or 'short' ET depending on the situation.

 

Maybe it's a guy thing.  But I don't like big banging something quickly. 😄  So 'this is the most direct combat chain and I'll use this every time on everything?'  Nope.  I don't like combat to be that rigid.

 

Build one had that bit more variety with a  BS that could stun or could use it non-TF vanilla if you wanted to.  Now.  You can only use it?  One way.  The 'same' way.

 

Don't think it's as good in Barrage.  Feels weaker, less emphatic.  Less appropriate.  I'd happily see Barrage keep all he debuffs.  But return the BS 100% stun back even if it meant slightly less dam.

 

Sometimes the 1st idea is the best idea.  And Build 1 I liked.  Lots.  Had a better flow.

 

The 2nd build is, that aside, more refined/very smooth and polished.  ET 'timing' tweak etc.

 

I'm not fussed about having a chance for double EF all the time.  Is that something for Scrappers?

 

I'd rather the Tank's BS keep that stun whopper.  Makes the attack more emphatic.

 

It's in Beta.  So I'm making the case.  That's the point of feed back.  Combat wise the 1st one had it.  

 

In a general AT tank point.  Perhaps all Tier 1s could have -reg or - def to emphasis (or - res) that when you get hit by a tank?  You get hurt.  And when you get hit by eg. Havoc Punch or BS?  You could rocked on your heels.  HP gets the KB?  I'd like BS to get that 100% stun.

 

Ok.  I'll stop now.  😉

 

Azrael.

We’re not giving bruising Back to Tankers. It was Just taken away to justify higher damage.

[Golden Azrael]

I'm less concerned about that.

 

I'm more concerned about BS being what it says on the tin with a shell shocking 100% stun choice.

 

Azrael.

[Tsuko]

1 hour ago, Infinitum said:

I'll keep this short and sweet, yes it does.

 

You want to label it my personal opinion - thats fine - I think it benefits tankers and in sticking to that.

Well yeah, and I do t mean this is in a rude way, but you do need to try it.

 

Since you haven't yet played it, your only evidence is that several people have confirmed what I'm telling you - through testing this extensively.

 

This is a feedback thread, and since by your own admission you havent played it - you would kinda need to do that to be able to know whether my feedback and others was convincing.

 

Thats completely up to you though, but any statement about the validity of my feedback from you is weightless until you actually play the set.

Yes, there is because the brute will have much higher numbers than the tanker and pretty close to the scrapper stalker simply because of fury and high dmg cap alone.  The capability is there for a brute to do insane numbers with this - again requires testing for you to base a reliable opinion based on the feedback from my testing.

Thats why we are testing it and providing feedback - that it stuns reliably and no further changes are needed.

 

If once you test that - you find otherwise post your feedback then, but until then - theres really nothing more to say about it really.

 You know what amazed me since so many years about Heroes ? you guys never stop.

I mean now we re all a "great familly" but still, your bigger strenght and your main weakness.

 

Come on and meet me at the Tiki Lounge, we did our job on Brainstorm, now let s storm the bar 🙂

[drbuzzard]

Ok, decided to take a tank for a spin last night.

 

Made up a dark/EM tanker. The build didn't try to be a 2 bit dom, so I skipped the 2 mez powers and the rez. Had fighting pool and flight (simple because I like flying). Defensive focus was pushing resistance as high as possible. Had capped l/s/psi/neg E, fire/cold without tough running (this is with defensive buff and core cardiac up, so might miss a few of those with the def buff off). Energy was OK at 60ish. I went with dark since I'd not tried it on a tanker before, my old experience with it being on a sentinel.

 

Whoa doggy, that heal is something else. Yep, it eats endurance like it's going out of style, but I built around fear of that huge endurance cost, and it didn't really cause me any grief. As mentioned before I did Cardiac core, and piled on energy mastery EPP with conserve power (which I never had to use) and physical perfection (slotted with +end perf shif, and panacea proc).

 

Since I'm big on caring about DPAS (someone may have noticed this), I didn't bother slotting up barrage or putting it in my tray. Everything else from EM was taken and slotted up. I even took build up, which is rare on my tankers, but I was scared of the end cost of running assault (which given the current numbers is one of my favorite options). Incarnate was cardiac, cognitive, pyronic, assault, and vanguard radial since I figured I'd want a lackey who could debuff regen and not die.

 

So I got it all thrown together and slotted up then tried out the Cimeroran city wall. This was a piece of cake. Build up with whirling hands and power crash would mow down the lvl 50 minions and maybe leave a lieut alive. Moved on to the 'prove yourself' mission and did that at +4x8 so see how the armor set would fare. As mentioned, that is one hell of a heal. Yes, I'd get beaten down, but pop the heal and you're topped off lickety split. Recharge on the heal is quick enough that I had no issues. Perhaps if I was fighting energy damage heavy foes, it might be an issue, but I never had trouble. Even collecting a couple of spawns at once didn't really faze me. I had a minimal number of toggles running and heavy endurance discount so I never had endurance issues even though I didn't pick up the freebie accolades.

 

Ok, time for a test run solo ITF. Things were set for +1x4 (so things were at least even level, and so I'd have enough targets that the 'kill this many' missions wouldn't be a pain.

 

Plowed right through the first mission with no issues, though I did  skip the ambush since I was a bit skittish about the energy damage. Yes, I'm a wuss. Went on to the second mission and did it speed run style, just smashing the shards and moving on. This would get a bit hairy at times with a couple of ambushes chasing me and EBs pounding on me while smashing crystals, but the amazing heal kept me from pushing up daisies.

 

On to the next, started at the bridge and pretty much just general hopped up the hill, though I did some clearing on the way if groups got aggroed. Also, you just need to clear surgeons regularly. They are like roaches. This was where cognitive was handy since it would help put down the cyclopses without me having to wait for the unstoppable drop. Smashed the console without too much difficulty, though all the robots and energy blasts meant I did pop barrier for the last wave. Then I moved up and pulled Requiem down and beat him down. I made use of assault for this, but it wasn't much trouble. Chain was something like TF>ET>BS>EP>PC repeat. Total recharge boost was only in the 80s. Perhaps I'll figure out a better build and get perma hasten up, but PC isn't too  bad DPAS. Requiem fell to this easily enough. Then it was time for Rommy, and I popped the radial Vanguard lore for him, which made it all easy enough. Not sure if it took more than the lore duration, but either way, I didn't run 2 lores, so it wasn't too long.

 

Then the last mission. Ick. Went straight to the courtyard and cleared it. Then I cleared the EBs. Moved on to Rommy, and made little headway beating on him even with lore up. Decided to shift tactics and went for the nicti. I was able to beat them down using assault and lore. Survival was never a concern as the heal was always available, and getting 1.1k heals per target means no issues.

 

Eventually I got all the nicti beat down, then I focused on Rommy. Bastard started healing on me without anything there to heal. No, not regen, there were visible green numbers and I couldn't see a surgeon anywhere (could be I missed it, but I looked). I kept at this for a while but gave up eventually.

 

So what did a learn - dark armor is pretty damned good because of the heal. You can get all resistances high enough that if you don't get slowed a bunch (oh yeah, that's when the second mission got hairy, I'd get slow and then was desperate for the heal to come back up) you will not die. But that's not the point here. The test lesson for beta was EM now has a solid attack chain for beating things down, and is sufficient for non cheating AVs. It's also good enough for AOE, though certainly not king in that area. No, I didn't try out barrage, but the DPAS is so awful, I can't bring myself to touch that crap.

[Golden Azrael]

HC are sharing their cake.  I'm just excited that EM is getting the changes it is.  It's a work of art.  Progressive design, dynamic gameplay.  A big step forward for EM tanks.  You get a piece of cake if you're old or progressive school.

 

And the moAR feedback the better.  That's the whole point.

 

But for me, bar a few very slight timing issues, Version 1 was good to go for Tanks.  I'd have put that on live for Tanks bar the ET (very slight) timing issue.

 

(The 100% stun to Barrage feels a bit awkward.  Thematically, bone smashing someone should 100% give them something to feel Bonesmashed about.  How can you be 60% bonesmashed?  Bonesmashing someone takes the mob out of the fight for 'a while.'  Or the choice to hit them that hard with BS that it can or does.)

 

I haven't, admittedly tested it on Stalkers or Scrappers.  Their mileage may vary.

 

Overall, plays as smooth as silk on Tankers.  It's a massive improvement overall in single target, AoE and stun capa'.

 

Azrael.

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, Golden Azrael said:

HC are sharing their cake.  I'm just excited that EM is getting the changes it is.  It's a work of art.  Progressive design, dynamic gameplay.  A big step forward for EM tanks.  You get a piece of cake if you're old or progressive school.

 

And the moAR feedback the better.  That's the whole point.

 

But for me, bar a few very slight timing issues, Version 1 was good to go for Tanks.  I'd have put that on live for Tanks bar the ET (very slight) timing issue.

 

(The 100% stun to Barrage feels a bit awkward.  Thematically, bone smashing someone should 100% give them something to feel Bonesmashed about.  How can you be 60% bonesmashed?  Bonesmashing someone takes the mob out of the fight for 'a while.'  Or the choice to hit them that hard with BS that it can or does.)

 

I haven't, admittedly tested it on Stalkers or Scrappers.  Their mileage may vary.

 

Overall, plays as smooth as silk on Tankers.  It's a massive improvement overall in single target, AoE and stun capa'.

 

Azrael.

 

As a scrapper player, I don't mind it going back to BS myself.  However, I do like the idea of giving Barrage something for people to go "Oooooo" about, as I think all tier 1/2 powers should be a hard choice to pick from 🙂

[drbuzzard]

1 hour ago, Golden Azrael said:

HC are sharing their cake.  I'm just excited that EM is getting the changes it is.  It's a work of art.  Progressive design, dynamic gameplay.  A big step forward for EM tanks.  You get a piece of cake if you're old or progressive school.

 

And the moAR feedback the better.  That's the whole point.

 

But for me, bar a few very slight timing issues, Version 1 was good to go for Tanks.  I'd have put that on live for Tanks bar the ET (very slight) timing issue.

 

(The 100% stun to Barrage feels a bit awkward.  Thematically, bone smashing someone should 100% give them something to feel Bonesmashed about.  How can you be 60% bonesmashed?  Bonesmashing someone takes the mob out of the fight for 'a while.'  Or the choice to hit them that hard with BS that it can or does.)

 

I haven't, admittedly tested it on Stalkers or Scrappers.  Their mileage may vary.

 

Overall, plays as smooth as silk on Tankers.  It's a massive improvement overall in single target, AoE and stun capa'.

 

Azrael.

As it was, not using barrage at all, I did stun the AVs outside of their purple triangles just fine. I greatly prefer the current arrangement so I don't screw up my fast ET animations. BS is best kept as a damage tool, not a stunning tool.

[Troo]

  

On 10/24/2020 at 5:33 AM, Jimmy said:

 Total Focus 

• Cast time reduced from 3.3 seconds to 2.53 seconds
• Total Focus has a 100% chance to grant Energy Focus (even if power misses)
•  Energy Focus
  • Energy Focus is consumed when casting certain Energy Melee powers in order to provide bonus effects (Energy Focus is not consumed if the power misses)
  • Energy Focus expires after 15 seconds
• Stalkers / Scrappers only:
  • This power only crits for 28% additional damage, but when it crits, it will also generate a backup Energy Store that will re-activate Energy Focus after the current Energy Focus is used or expires (essentially it provides two stacks of Energy Focus)
• Fixed timing issues while flying
• Fixed an animation issue experienced by female characters while flying

Pro: Reduced animation time (this was likely long overdue) Thank you!

Pro: **Stalker Hide should allow this to crit every time when hidden

Pro: A good replacement for the removed power Stun (same disorient capability) (would not have used it this way with the long cast time)

-----that's all without the combo mechanic------

 

Pro: Energy Focus is 100% miss or not. (did not test if a miss while hidden did a double EF)

 

Using Total Focus starts a treed combo mechanic with three options. A fast Energy Transfer OR a 100% mag 3 stun OR a double(ish) targets AoE Power Crash.

Pro: These are for the most part optional (especially when using Barrage instead of BS)

Con: Crits are what they are.

 

Comment: If doing a combo mechanic, triggering it off a slow, later tier, heavy hitter seems counter intuitive.

Comment: This power could have been equally improved without adding the combo mechanic. Without the new feature the crits may have been able to be better.

[Troo]

On 10/24/2020 at 5:33 AM, Jimmy said:

 Power Crash (Replaces Stun)

• Power Crash is now a minor cone that can hit up to 5 targets (10 for Tankers)
• No longer takes melee damage sets, now takes PBAoE damage sets (any existing enhancements will remain slotted until the character respecs)
• If used with Energy Focus: Target cap increased to 10 targets (16 for Tankers)
• If you previously had Stun in your build, you'll now have Power Crash
• Stalkers only:
  • This power has a 16s recharge (instead of a 9s recharge for other ATs), with proportional damage and endurance cost increases per the standard damage formulas
    • Lowered recharge from 18s to 16s
  • As Stalkers do not have Whirling Hands, they rely entirely on Power Crash for AoE damage
• Fixed some timing issues
• Fixed a typo in the description

The power that replaced Stun (Stun being an often skipped utility power)

Pro: New AoE power for the set.

Pro: Has a small chance to stun, this does stack nicely with some disorient capable toggles.

Pro: Combined with WH, it is a good bit of AoE.

Con: 5 targets for some ATs.

Con: Positioning to get targets in the cone.

Con: It uses the old Stun animation. Foot Stomp alternate ground punch could be a better fit.

-----this is all before using the combo mechanic-----

 

Pro: Using the combo it effectively doubles(ish) the number of targets.

 

Comment: I don't like having to sacrifice single target effectiveness for additional AoE. I would have been fine with WH improvements alone.

[ScarySai]

42 minutes ago, Troo said:

Pro: Energy Focus is 100% miss or not. (did not test if a miss while hidden did a double EF)

 

 

 

Comment: If doing a combo mechanic, triggering it off a slow, later tier, heavy hitter seems counter intuitive.

Comment: This power could have been equally improved without adding the combo mechanic. Without the new feature the crits may have been able to be better.

Comment: I don't like having to sacrifice single target effectiveness for additional AoE. I would have been fine with WH improvements alone.

1: The second one won't proc if you whiff it, which is fair.

 

2: It's not really a combo mechanic, so much as a build/spend mechanic that allows ET and PC to be as powerful as they are in the eyes of the powers that be.

 

3: They do need to standardize the activation time for all powers that behave this way (hi, Incan strike.), but I don't see the crits being stronger considering the power of the rest of the set. Hell, they made ET crit, which is insane in and of itself. If you have a buddy debuffing stuff for you, you should be the scariest guy in the group.

 

4: When fighting a boss, sure. When fighting his friends on x8 after you just turned him into an astronaut? You'll want power crash, especially on a stalker.

[Troo]

12 minutes ago, ScarySai said:

 

2: It's not really a combo mechanic, so much as a build/spend mechanic that allows ET and PC to be as powerful as they are in the eyes of the powers that be

It is, call it what you want. It’s a game mechanic that requires another power in combination.

 

I have no problem with many targets and no aoe. This is part of EM appeal.

 

[ScarySai]

I'd liken it to a limit break or expending a built-up power meter if the game engine allowed for such mechanics. This is the the best thing they could really do with that concept.

 

EM's AoE isn't mindblowing by any stretch when compared to it's competition, but it's not useless. You get your heavy, earth shattering hits.

 

You are not getting full-time fast ET, it's pretty clear by now. Might as well accept the compromise that is the focus system.

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

Comment: I don't like having to sacrifice single target effectiveness for additional AoE. I would have been fine with WH improvements alone.

This was never an option. The benefit MUST help Stalkers in addition to the others. And sacrificing ST to achieve the best possible AoE is key to the new design. Without that sacrifice there is no Fast ET.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Wavicle

[Wavicle]

37 minutes ago, Troo said:

I have no problem with many targets and no aoe. This is part of EM appeal.

 

For most people that was never appealing.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Wavicle

[Bopper]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

Pro: Energy Focus is 100% miss or not. (did not test if a miss while hidden did a double EF)

It shouldn't. You would need to land a hit to land a crit. You would get 1 EF from the automatic grant by TF, but the automatic crit from hide is wasted if you miss.

[Bopper]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

Comment: If doing a combo mechanic, triggering it off a slow, later tier, heavy hitter seems counter intuitive.

Comment: This power could have been equally improved without adding the combo mechanic. Without the new feature the crits may have been able to be better.

Energy Focus is not intended to be a combo mechanic that defines the set. Otherwise you'd have a combo builder available earlier on in the set. The Energy Focus mechanic should be treated as a graduation or maturation of your power. As you get stronger (gain in level) you can unlock additional capability in some of your powers. 

 

As we know, you could remove the EF entirely and the set will play well for what it's intended to do (ST damage, not so much AoE). Adding EF is icing that makes your powers hit even higher levels of performance when you reach ...well, higher levels. So think of it more as an unlocking feature instead of a combo mechanic. What you do with that unlocked potential is up to the user, but all the choices are just icing, not set defining.

[M3z]

2 EF stacks should mean ET just deletes your target.