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Zone Travel Updates in Issue 27


Jimmy

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26 minutes ago, therealtitanman said:

If you said so. why not gm open a poll see the outcome?

Dude, this actually was an exploit. An exploit that could negatively impact other players that wasn't recently discovered until recently. It actually WAS abusing the system. It's been mentioned several times that the macro did have unintended side effects for certain people - and would negatively impact other players. It was rightfully adjusted so that would no longer happen.

 

And regardless, a poll wouldn't be a end-all be-all solution to really figure out what every player thinks about x change to the game. For one, it's highly unreliable - several people have multiple accounts at this point so the results aren't even reliable. And secondly, you can't "make" everyone respond - so the results will be clearly skewed to who does respond - and those are the folks that feel the strongest about the change.

I think it's positive. But like a lot of other players, I don't often speak my mind enough to make that clear - and not everyone will comment about it or speak up. The change was needed. Yes, it wasn't wanted by a large part of the population, but if it means the exploits (and I'm talking beyond simply being able to teleport to a SG/VG within an instant) stop, then I'm all for the change.

 

In all honesty, everyone should be happy the changes that did make it through went through - initially you had to get every exploration accolade per zone JUST to have access to that zone through LRT. Now you just need one accolade and a badge from the zones you want access to. And, if you don't have those exploration badges - you can still use that macro when you activate LRT.

 

My main point here is that things will not go back to how they were before with the macro, and that should be expected. From my perspective, I consider it selfish to demand that the macro stay as it was - because of the exploits associated with it (and to reiterate, I'm not just talking about being able to teleport to a SG/VG in an instant). 

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12 minutes ago, Arli said:

Dude, this actually was an exploit. An exploit that could negatively impact other players that wasn't recently discovered until recently. It actually WAS abusing the system. It's been mentioned several times that the macro did have unintended side effects for certain people - and would negatively impact other players. It was rightfully adjusted so that would no longer happen.

 

And regardless, a poll wouldn't be a end-all be-all solution to really figure out what every player thinks about x change to the game. For one, it's highly unreliable - several people have multiple accounts at this point so the results aren't even reliable. And secondly, you can't "make" everyone respond - so the results will be clearly skewed to who does respond - and those are the folks that feel the strongest about the change.

I think it's positive. But like a lot of other players, I don't often speak my mind enough to make that clear - and not everyone will comment about it or speak up. The change was needed. Yes, it wasn't wanted by a large part of the population, but if it means the exploits (and I'm talking beyond simply being able to teleport to a SG/VG within an instant) stop, then I'm all for the change.

 

In all honesty, everyone should be happy the changes that did make it through went through - initially you had to get every exploration accolade per zone JUST to have access to that zone through LRT. Now you just need one accolade and a badge from the zones you want access to. And, if you don't have those exploration badges - you can still use that macro when you activate LRT.

 

My main point here is that things will not go back to how they were before with the macro, and that should be expected. From my perspective, I consider it selfish to demand that the macro stay as it was - because of the exploits associated with it (and to reiterate, I'm not just talking about being able to teleport to a SG/VG in an instant). 

what i meant is the poll that fixing the ebfp exploit with the suggested way,

not revert back to the ebfp. 

And I didnt ask for revert.

and gm having their decision at the end.

what i mainly meant for this is for people make suggestion without keep flushed multiple HUSH post by same 3 guy.

my intend is to tackle both win win situation, not one way street and being bombarded with HUSH post, which not engaging other player want to voice up and suggestion.

 

this also proven my point, with their flushing the post wth nitpicking quote, my intent from choosing suggested way to revert qq.

 

 

 

Edited by therealtitanman
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I 100% agree about the poll being easy to cheese, especially with multi-boxing. Even if multi-boxing was not a thing, the purpose of the poll would only be to support the voice of the majority already expressed in this thread. Poll or not, results are easily predictable.

 

@Arli, outside the negative pvp impact, what other impacts has the basemacro exploit had on the community?

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2 minutes ago, CU_Krow said:

I 100% agree about the poll being easy to cheese, especially with multi-boxing. Even if multi-boxing was not a thing, the purpose of the poll would only be to support the voice of the majority already expressed in this thread. Poll or not, results are easily predictable.

 

@Arli, outside the negative pvp impact, what other impacts has the basemacro exploit had on the community?

To quote Jimmy:
 

Quote

The following change was omitted from the beta patch notes:

  • Fixed several exploits with /enterbasefrompasscode and other related commands
    • It was previously possible to enter any map in the game, from any location, at any point in time - even mission maps, bases, and arena matches belonging to other players, and restricted developer-only instances with certain developer tools active (which are very, very easy to break the game with)
    • We aren't going to go into any more detail as these exploits may or may not be functional on other servers


The post can be found here.

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Not only that, but there was another negative impact it had on PvE.  Some of us knew that /enterbasefrompasscode was an exploit from the get-go, and refused to use it.  However, so many players started using it that it quickly became expected for everyone to use it.  People that didn't would keep being told by others how to use it (they thought that if the person wasn't using it, they didn't know about it, so were trying to be helpful), or be five minutes behind everyone else getting to a mission.  It got to the point where I stopped joining PUG teams, with a couple exceptions of TFs and SFs that stay in the same zone.

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4 hours ago, Bizzum said:

The original devs way back when would not have done something to slow the flow of the game. They were actually helping the flow over time. You are tainting the legacy. Please change this back. 


The original Devs would have shut down that exploit immediately, not left it as a convenience until a solution was found (and to be fair, I don’t believe that they would have ever given us the new Travel Update that the Homecoming team has put in place).

 

 

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I realize that you're trying to do what you think is best for the game, but I can't help but think that you are actually taking a sledge hammer to a game that was working properly. I mean really, "fixing" things that the original developers didn't think needed fixing. Here are my complaints with just this patch:

  • Long Range Teleport - in theory, this isn't a major problem, but you took away the Ouro Portal.
  • You say that a level 1 can now get to Ouro, but how? The portal power is gone (which required level 14 before you removed it), you need the "Entrusted with the Secret" badge, and the beacons to Echo: Galaxy City and Echo: Dark Astoria are gone. To get a level 1 "Entrusted with the Secret", I used to go to Echo: Galaxy City -> (Tram) to Ouro -> get the exploration badge in Ouro. I haven't a clue how to get there now at level 1. This also saved me from begging for a portal so I could get there at level 14. I could actually summon the portal at level 1 but I couldn't use the portal I just summoned.
  • Both jump packs on the same global cooldown - really? I had both on Live (I believe one was from the Good vs. Evil edition and the other was a veteran reward - but I'm not going to look it up right now), and I remember both of them having a long cooldown (I don't know if the devs reduced it to 30 seconds or if you did). Since you have to pay to get the second, I don't understand why someone would buy the second one as it's useless if it has the same global cooldown. Personally, I was using both to get a "fly" ability without using a power choice and not using the rocket board or flying carpet (I don't like them turning off all my toggles). I think they're slower than Ninja run and I don't know how they compare to the hover board or flying carpet. These should be set so that you can't activate both at the same time, but using it as a slow fly isn't game-breaking.
  • Removing the /enterbasefrompasscode - I don't know whatever "exploit" you are talking about but this (for me) was a quick way to get to the vendors, trainers, teleporters, and my base storage. I know that if you used it while in a mission - when you left the base it would take you back to the zone of the mission (usually where the base teleporter drops you) - then you'd have to run back to the mission entrance to get inside or use the mission teleport power. This is more of a hindrance instead of an exploit.

Back on the Live servers, you had to get the Supergroup exploration badge to be able to attach a beacon to the teleporter. Before using /enterbasefrompasscode (which I learned about on your servers), I'd have to get those exploration badges for each supergroup that I wanted to go somewhere. I remember that RWZ used to be the hardest as there is an exploration badge on the ship and you had to have a mothership raid in progress to get to it.

 

Right now, I'm trying to get on the Discord server Victory because I don't like the direction you're taking the game.

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2 minutes ago, Mageman said:

I realize that you're trying to do what you think is best for the game, but I can't help but think that you are actually taking a sledge hammer to a game that was working properly. I mean really, "fixing" things that the original developers didn't think needed fixing. Here are my complaints with just this patch:

  • Long Range Teleport - in theory, this isn't a major problem, but you took away the Ouro Portal.
  • You say that a level 1 can now get to Ouro, but how? The portal power is gone (which required level 14 before you removed it), you need the "Entrusted with the Secret" badge, and the beacons to Echo: Galaxy City and Echo: Dark Astoria are gone. To get a level 1 "Entrusted with the Secret", I used to go to Echo: Galaxy City -> (Tram) to Ouro -> get the exploration badge in Ouro. I haven't a clue how to get there now at level 1. This also saved me from begging for a portal so I could get there at level 14. I could actually summon the portal at level 1 but I couldn't use the portal I just summoned.
  • Both jump packs on the same global cooldown - really? I had both on Live (I believe one was from the Good vs. Evil edition and the other was a veteran reward - but I'm not going to look it up right now), and I remember both of them having a long cooldown (I don't know if the devs reduced it to 30 seconds or if you did). Since you have to pay to get the second, I don't understand why someone would buy the second one as it's useless if it has the same global cooldown. Personally, I was using both to get a "fly" ability without using a power choice and not using the rocket board or flying carpet (I don't like them turning off all my toggles). I think they're slower than Ninja run and I don't know how they compare to the hover board or flying carpet. These should be set so that you can't activate both at the same time, but using it as a slow fly isn't game-breaking.
  • Removing the /enterbasefrompasscode - I don't know whatever "exploit" you are talking about but this (for me) was a quick way to get to the vendors, trainers, teleporters, and my base storage. I know that if you used it while in a mission - when you left the base it would take you back to the zone of the mission (usually where the base teleporter drops you) - then you'd have to run back to the mission entrance to get inside or use the mission teleport power. This is more of a hindrance instead of an exploit.

Back on the Live servers, you had to get the Supergroup exploration badge to be able to attach a beacon to the teleporter. Before using /enterbasefrompasscode (which I learned about on your servers), I'd have to get those exploration badges for each supergroup that I wanted to go somewhere. I remember that RWZ used to be the hardest as there is an exploration badge on the ship and you had to have a mothership raid in progress to get to it.

 

Right now, I'm trying to get on the Discord server Victory because I don't like the direction you're taking the game.

A lot of misinformation here. Oro portal still exists. Base macros still exist. Seems like you barely scanned the patch notes then came here to post this rant.

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My Feedback

Overall I think these changes are positive, but I do have three complaints.

  1. Making the accolade power per-toon is extremely burdensome. I have 40 level 50 characters. Multiply that by the number of zones and then by the number of exploration badges in each zone. I'm simply not going to spend weeks getting the travel accolades. A per-account or per-SG solution would be doable from my perspective.
  2. Having the base portal drop you off near the train station reduces the value of that portal. I can already get to the train station with the Ouro portal. The base portal taking you to the train adds nothing. In fact, it makes travel worse because I used to be able to pick the train or the portal based on which one was closer to where I was going. In cases where I actually wanted a portal to drop me off near a train, I could use Kings Row.
  3. 10 million influence is too much for the SG Teleport. I'll need 400 million just to get my 50s the power. Again, you're asking me to spend weeks on this. And nearly half a billion influence.
Edited by magicjtv
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9 minutes ago, Mageman said:

I realize that you're trying to do what you think is best for the game, but I can't help but think that you are actually taking a sledge hammer to a game that was working properly. I mean really, "fixing" things that the original developers didn't think needed fixing. Here are my complaints with just this patch:

  • Long Range Teleport - in theory, this isn't a major problem, but you took away the Ouro Portal.
  • You say that a level 1 can now get to Ouro, but how? The portal power is gone (which required level 14 before you removed it), you need the "Entrusted with the Secret" badge, and the beacons to Echo: Galaxy City and Echo: Dark Astoria are gone. To get a level 1 "Entrusted with the Secret", I used to go to Echo: Galaxy City -> (Tram) to Ouro -> get the exploration badge in Ouro. I haven't a clue how to get there now at level 1. This also saved me from begging for a portal so I could get there at level 14. I could actually summon the portal at level 1 but I couldn't use the portal I just summoned.
  • Both jump packs on the same global cooldown - really? I had both on Live (I believe one was from the Good vs. Evil edition and the other was a veteran reward - but I'm not going to look it up right now), and I remember both of them having a long cooldown (I don't know if the devs reduced it to 30 seconds or if you did). Since you have to pay to get the second, I don't understand why someone would buy the second one as it's useless if it has the same global cooldown. Personally, I was using both to get a "fly" ability without using a power choice and not using the rocket board or flying carpet (I don't like them turning off all my toggles). I think they're slower than Ninja run and I don't know how they compare to the hover board or flying carpet. These should be set so that you can't activate both at the same time, but using it as a slow fly isn't game-breaking.
  • Removing the /enterbasefrompasscode - I don't know whatever "exploit" you are talking about but this (for me) was a quick way to get to the vendors, trainers, teleporters, and my base storage. I know that if you used it while in a mission - when you left the base it would take you back to the zone of the mission (usually where the base teleporter drops you) - then you'd have to run back to the mission entrance to get inside or use the mission teleport power. This is more of a hindrance instead of an exploit.

Back on the Live servers, you had to get the Supergroup exploration badge to be able to attach a beacon to the teleporter. Before using /enterbasefrompasscode (which I learned about on your servers), I'd have to get those exploration badges for each supergroup that I wanted to go somewhere. I remember that RWZ used to be the hardest as there is an exploration badge on the ship and you had to have a mothership raid in progress to get to it.

 

Right now, I'm trying to get on the Discord server Victory because I don't like the direction you're taking the game.

Your post is filled with a lot of inaccuracies. The ouroboros portal is still accessible, even more so now in fact. There are so many ways it can be unlocked, I would recommend you read the patch notes. Your other point about the jump pack, you are intentionally limiting yourself based on your own playstyle, but you're also complaining about how the way you play makes it not fun...? 

 

Your last bullet is also inaccurate. You can still use the /ebfp command, it's even more accessible now than before I would argue. 

 

The Homecoming volunteers are doing an amazing job maintaining the game and community. 

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4 hours ago, Mageman said:
  • Removing the /enterbasefrompasscode - I don't know whatever "exploit" you are talking about

Quoting Jimmy:

On 11/24/2020 at 10:42 AM, Jimmy said:

The following change was omitted from the beta patch notes:

  • Fixed several exploits with /enterbasefrompasscode and other related commands
    • It was previously possible to enter any map in the game, from any location, at any point in time - even mission maps, bases, and arena matches belonging to other players, and restricted developer-only instances with certain developer tools active (which are very, very easy to break the game with)
    • We aren't going to go into any more detail as these exploits may or may not be functional on other servers

I'm not allowed to go into much detail, but the gist of it is that the game had very, very poor validation on what maps you were allowed to access and relied in security through obscurity, ie. that most players wouldn't know the commands or try to mess with their parameters. It assumed that if you could run a map-switching command, then whatever map you were switching to was a valid destination, even maps you had no business going to.

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5 hours ago, GM Widower said:

No, there's not going to be a poll. A poll would be hilariously easy to cheese; moreover, we're not in the business of polling the playerbase on whether or not we should patch out an exploit.

Can we have a poll on whether to have polls?

 

*runs and hides behind @Bopper (they like him)*

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4 hours ago, magicjtv said:

My Feedback

Overall I think these changes are positive, but I do have three complaints.

Hello! Thanks for your feedback.

4 hours ago, magicjtv said:
  • Making the accolade power per-toon is extremely burdensome. I have 40 level 50 characters. Multiply that by the number of zones and then by the number of exploration badges in each zone. I'm simply not going to spend weeks getting the travel accolades. A per-account or per-SG solution would be doable from my perspective.

We actually ran the numbers, something like 60-70% of existing level 50 characters should've had access to Long Range Teleporter off-the-bat, and LRT allows you to enter your base using the existing /enterbasefrompasscode command after using it - meaning you only need to go and gather those badges if you wish to teleport directly to those zones without going through a base. If you don't have LRT, it's a quick 5 minute tour around a single zone to unlock it.

 

4 hours ago, magicjtv said:
  • Having the base portal drop you off near the train station reduces the value of that portal. I can already get to the train station with the Ouro portal. The base portal taking you to the train adds nothing. In fact, it makes travel worse because I used to be able to pick the train or the portal based on which one was closer to where I was going. In cases where I actually wanted a portal to drop me off near a train, I could use Kings Row.

This is reasonable. I agree that for a few cases - especially for players who had memorized exactly where all the drop off locations were for the various methods of teleportation - this new system can be slightly less convenient. Our goal here however was to make zone travel more consistent, understandable and accessible for all players. Dropping in and out of the same portal location was a big part of that.

4 hours ago, magicjtv said:
  • 10 million influence is too much for the SG Teleport. I'll need 400 million just to get my 50s the power. Again, you're asking me to spend weeks on this. And nearly half a billion influence.

This however I'm not sure I agree with, but I think the real issue here is an understanding one. The portal is an additive extra, just like Team Transporter (the power which teleports your entire team to the mission, it also costs 10 million).

 

LRT and Ouro are free, with Base Transporter (teleport self to base) and Mission Transporter (teleport self to mission) both coming in at 1 million each. For just 2 million you can fast travel roughly 5 times every 10 minutes, and that's not including the times you're already close to a base portal. Essentially - the summoned base portal doesn't really speed up your travel. It's a cool toy to have, and can be nice to help your teammates with, but that's about it.

 

This feedback is really helpful though, and it's starting to become clear what one of the biggest problems is - the perception that the summoned base portal is required to access your base remotely, when in fact you can use either Base Transporter or Long Range Teleporter to do this as well. LRT specifically doesn't communicate that it allows you to use /ebfp at all, so unless you've been told it does that, you'd have no idea. This is definitely something we need to improve.

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4 hours ago, magicjtv said:

My Feedback

Overall I think these changes are positive, but I do have three complaints.

  1. Making the accolade power per-toon is extremely burdensome. I have 40 level 50 characters. Multiply that by the number of zones and then by the number of exploration badges in each zone. I'm simply not going to spend weeks getting the travel accolades. A per-account or per-SG solution would be doable from my perspective.
  2. Having the base portal drop you off near the train station reduces the value of that portal. I can already get to the train station with the Ouro portal. The base portal taking you to the train adds nothing. In fact, it makes travel worse because I used to be able to pick the train or the portal based on which one was closer to where I was going. In cases where I actually wanted a portal to drop me off near a train, I could use Kings Row.
  3. 10 million influence is too much for the SG Teleport. I'll need 400 million just to get my 50s the power. Again, you're asking me to spend weeks on this. And nearly half a billion influence.


I'm 90% sure the SG portals drop you off at a base portall; the Long-Range Teleport drops you at the train, or, if no train is available, it drops you at a base portal (as is the case with hazard and trial zones). If this isn't working this way, submit a /bug report!

Now, in that regard, we can talk about the placement of the base portals. Some of them (Talos, Skyway) are hilariously close to the train lines, so I think this is a worthwhile discussion to have. Skyway, for instance, I think it'd be nice to have the portal in a more central location in the zone, but I get why they put it near Synapse.

Finally, the devs wanted to make sure that getting the new powers involved some investment. It's not their fault that some people have dozens or hundreds of alts (though I suppose that's the natural consequence of giving people 1000 slots per server)! So no matter what, people are going to actually have to put some work in. Also, you shouldn't' NEED to get all the powers on each character. I mean, how much do you play all those alts, anyway? If you have 40 of them, playing each one one hour a week is already a full time job, so I highly doubt the lack of a convenient teleport system on each and every one is going to impact you all that much. Especially if everyone ELSE has those powers, you can continue to use the old base macro when a teammate summons a base portal, or if a teammate uses "team transport" (which absolutely no one has complained about having to buy on every character), or you can use your actual travel powers to spend 1-2 minutes finding the nearest train or base portal, just like we're supposed to!

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1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

We actually ran the numbers, something like 60-70% of existing level 50 characters should've had access to Long Range Teleporter off-the-bat, and LRT allows you to enter your base using the existing /enterbasefrompasscode command after using it - meaning you only need to go and gather those badges if you wish to teleport directly to those zones without going through a base. If you don't have LRT, it's a quick 5 minute tour around a single zone to unlock it.

I think the flaw here is basing your numbers off of level 50 characters.  Personally, my under-50 characters vastly outnumber my level 50's - out of over 100 characters, only five have gotten to 50.  I put a lot more playtime into my sub-50 characters, and generally once a character hits 50, my time on it drops dramatically as I move on to new alts.  I realize my experience may not be representative of most players, but I think it's a solid example of why basing decisions solely or even primarily off of the stats of level 50 characters presents a skewed perspective and may be the cause of much of the player dissatisfaction with these changes.

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2 hours ago, Lockpick said:

Faultline is not appearing after gathering exploration badges in the zone.  Added to the bug reports forum as well.


Speak of the Devil and (s)he shall appear!

BE4F1F44-1660-4A17-B514-301AD814FF5F.jpeg

Edited by Myrmidon
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2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

We actually ran the numbers, something like 60-70% of existing level 50 characters should've had access to Long Range Teleporter off-the-bat, and LRT allows you to enter your base using the existing /enterbasefrompasscode command after using it - meaning you only need to go and gather those badges if you wish to teleport directly to those zones without going through a base. If you don't have LRT, it's a quick 5 minute tour around a single zone to unlock it.

How many under level 50s will get it?  I don't think you understood the feedback there.  unlocking all zones on all alts regardless of level and getting it set up with all zones is a lot of hoop jumping in a game that already has too much hoop jumping for accolades, incarnates and such.  now you're adding a big time sink and inf sink for people with a lot of alts.  this kind of stuff was needed for a live, pay to play game, not so much here.

 

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

This however I'm not sure I agree with, but I think the real issue here is an understanding one. The portal is an additive extra, just like Team Transporter (the power which teleports your entire team to the mission, it also costs 10 million).

TT SHOULD cost 10 mil and have the recharge it does because it's a direct port for the entire team right to the mission door.  Making the base portal P2W the same price and recharge doesn't make sense at all.  it doesn't operate the same way.  You have to load screen to a base, then load screen to a zone and then travel normally to the mission door.  You're pricing two different things the same even though they don't work the same. 

 

2 hours ago, Jimmy said:

This feedback is really helpful though, and it's starting to become clear what one of the biggest problems is - the perception that the summoned base portal is required to access your base remotely, when in fact you can use either Base Transporter or Long Range Teleporter to do this as well. LRT specifically doesn't communicate that it allows you to use /ebfp at all, so unless you've been told it does that, you'd have no idea. This is definitely something we need to improve.

Appreciate you listening to feedback.  just wanted to say there was feedback in the beta on this that said it's too confusing and convoluted now with all the new options but that largely got ignored.  Hopefully you'll all come up with something to fix that.

 

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7 hours ago, Myrmidon said:


The original Devs would have shut down that exploit immediately, not left it as a convenience until a solution was found (and to be fair, I don’t believe that they would have ever given us the new Travel Update that the Homecoming team has put in place).

If it was something they could put into the P2W store for cash, without a doubt they would've. 

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7 hours ago, Apparition said:

Not only that, but there was another negative impact it had on PvE.  Some of us knew that /enterbasefrompasscode was an exploit from the get-go, and refused to use it.  However, so many players started using it that it quickly became expected for everyone to use it.  People that didn't would keep being told by others how to use it (they thought that if the person wasn't using it, they didn't know about it, so were trying to be helpful), or be five minutes behind everyone else getting to a mission.  It got to the point where I stopped joining PUG teams, with a couple exceptions of TFs and SFs that stay in the same zone.

It doesn't make you more pious to not have used the command.  Its great you made a personal choice, just like everyone else did.  you could've formed teams with people who play the same way and never have worried about it.

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8 hours ago, Arli said:

Dude, this actually was an exploit. An exploit that could negatively impact other players that wasn't recently discovered until recently. It actually WAS abusing the system. It's been mentioned several times that the macro did have unintended side effects for certain people - and would negatively impact other players. It was rightfully adjusted so that would no longer happen.

no one is suggesting to keep it the way it was.  everyone knows it was an exploit.  it's been beaten to death over the past year.  no one objected to it getting replaced and anyone who might have suggested just to keep it the way it was was being totally unreasonable.  it doesn't need to be repeated.  everyone gets it.

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LRT: Quality of Life Suggestion Follows

 

Can the LRT zone interface be modified such that the (accessible by alignment) zones a character does not have access to (because they have not collected the beacon badge) appear in a different font (such as red italic) rather than simply not appearing on the list?

 

Not only would this help players identify which badges they have not collected for the LRT power, but it would double as a nicer mechanism than scrolling through the Exploration tab of the badge window.

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