Poison : how to make a viable build?

[Verix]

I have always loved CoV (sorry, not sorry - villain at heart) but one of the things that turns me off from the game a bit is that there are a number of powers that kinda scream : If you picked this power set you should probably make a new character. On that note to anyone reading from the homecoming team : can poison get a consideration for a rework? Nature is a good basis for comparison that seems to just be way better. From what I've read and experienced it seems like poison is really good for : AV/PVP debuffing and not much else. Didn't the ranged single target heal ability (that can't heal yourself) have a travel time?  /Yikes.

 

All that part aside, I still want to make a poison-ish themed character that doesn't suck and is actually fun to play. Do you love theory crafting on builds? Then maybe this is just the topic you've been waiting for! I would like to re-create the very first villain I ever made that incorporates elements of poison into the build in a meaningful way. For a Mastermind Poison is a secondary - and I would never take it again for that AT because other massively better choices exist (everything besides trick arrow). Poison is available to a defender as a primary - but I don't think I want to poison on a defender so I eliminate that choice too. 

 

Using the Poison  therefore would limit builds to either Controller or Corruptor - but I am open to other ideas. I would have no objection for example to a blaster, dominator, mastermind or sentinel (non melee character) that makes good use of the Experimentation Pool and/or the Mace Mastery epic pool (that has poisonous ray/summon tarantula/scorpion shield).

 

I would love to hear your thoughts on good working aspects for a poison theme!

 

 

 

 

 

[Vulpoid]

 

[Braddack]

hi, my Main is an Ilusion / Poison Controller and hes realy an Blast to play.

 

From soloing to Teams, from normal Mishs to Av Hunting, all can be done with this combo.

 

Okay its a bit of work to get your Phantom Army to perma, but its just such an Joy to play.

[kiramon]

You’ll find that poison will always play a secondary-style role, primary or secondary, since well it does debuffa that require you to do something else for the reward.

 

that being said, defender is better than cor- but you can make it work either way. Water/Poison is pretty beastly ;3 

[roleki]

I've got a Mind/Poison controller and it is one of the more untouchable characters I run.  Two AoE holds, two ST holds, AoE sleep and AoE terrorize that are available every mob, an AoE confuse... then throw in Poison's debuffs?  It's almost unfair.

[JnEricsonx]

I remake my Thugs/Poison on Homecoming-making some of the debuffs finally albeit small AOEs work well, the trick is to keep your controls rotating to keep your secondary targets weak while you pummel your priority target.

[Heraclea]

Poison/Dark is the only defender that has really clicked for me.  It helps A LOT that there are only three powers to cast on teammates, and one is a resurrect, and neither your spot buff nor your spot anti-mezz are really anything to write home about.  Everything else is aimed at the enemy.  The debuffs do not require fiddling with 'anchors', you just aim them at something and fire. 

 

I have many level 50 characters on TB.  There are other characters that solo well, or that run story arcs well.  That isn't what this one is for.  But if you are up against an annoying archvillain, whether it's Mary Macomber, Reichsman, or Nosferatu, I will bring this character who exists to help other characters trivialize tough encounters. 

[Clave Dark 5]

Poison is a great set for Proc Monstering with.  If you don't know what that means, look in the Controller section of these very forums for a post about Proc Monsters.

[Lusiphur Malache]

Don't do it, I care about you, This is a mistake.  I have a Dark/Poison Controller and it was a slog all the way to lvl 20, when I gave up on soloing and played her only in groups and suffered the ridicule of my SG mates.  I give Cruel 2B Kind every now and again.  I might get more serious when I have an Incarnate plan.

[Mr. Vee]

Poison's amazing but I would recommend defender on it. It's one of those sets where the higher debuff values make a big difference. It doesn't really blossom until you get the aura though - slot it for -to hit and you're golden. Frankly I think poison's the perfect set for the way the game is today. You can passively debuff regular mobs just by being in melee and blast for fun. Hard targets you have the heavier debuffs to throw. No super long recharge stuff, no anchors. Heal/mez/rez are completely skippable.

[ForeverLaxx]

You might want to reconsider your position of "no Defenders" considering how powerful a Poison/Sonic Defender can be. If you're soloing, you'll do more damage as a Defender than as a Corruptor also, particularly due to the larger -res numbers you get for being a Defender.

[Nemeroff]

Start with Frosticus' guide. Very informative about the set, your role, and potential like soloing Lusca with Poison/Fire Def.

 

I was going to do Poison/Sonic but I have a ton of Sonics. Poison/Rad Defender started as an experiment but one of my favorites.

[Eldyem]

I'm also going to recommend Defender, but not for the same reasons as everyone else; Venomous Gas, the T9 power (for everyone except Masterminds; I also think their variant, Noxious Gas, is amazing, though) is an absolute game-changer for the set, and getting it sooner makes the set feel better faster, in my opinion.

 

Poison is, in my opinion, quite a bit under-tuned as a set overall due to specific values (mainly -Regen) not being comparable to other sets that offer similar values of debuffs, but Venomous Gas requires minimal effort to apply an honestly fairly absurd debuff in a large area with minimal effort beyond standing a little closer than you might otherwise.

 

In terms of alternative sets with close-enough visuals, I honestly think Radiation Emission can look very poison-y, as can essentially all Dark sets, especially Miasma/Control if you're willing to put up with the bizarreness of the pets (though Haunt in particular can be "explained away" as a Scarecrow-esque take on Poison, to me). And there's a Toxic-damage build for Arachnos Soldiers out there somewhere, though its something of a gimmick in my opinion due to Toxic being a type that is resisted strongly when something does resist it.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Eldyem

[brasilgringo]

Poison/Sonic def sounds interesting, especially if there is a proc'd out build (esp. for Screech and Siren's Song?) and maybe incorporates the new TP pool for Fold Space.  Buildmeisters? I presume you'd want to build for S/L def since you'll be in melee, and for the same reason skip the cones in primary/secondary?

 

Hm now that I think about it, a secondary with fewer cones and more targetable aoe / pbaoe could be better, given you're going to be standing in melee (I presume) to drop poison trap and venemous gas ... maybe water really is the best choice, then.

Edited December 9, 2020 by brasilgringo

[roleki]

31 minutes ago, Krimson said:

I also have a Mind/Poison Controller and she can be very effective. 

What Epic did you take?  I went Stone, and between all the procs, containment, and -Res, it will consistently take a 1500-point chunk out of an Orange con.   

[Seigmoraig]

You could always roll Dark Miasma and color it greenish yellow and pretend it's poison

[MaHaBone]

I have an illusion/poison troller I use and leveled almost exclusively for Summer Blockbuster Trials. She is absolutely PERFECT for the trial- massive debuffs for all the AVs and Phantom Army handle aggro management. Spectral Terror for the minion phases. Even with a team of level 15 n00bs we tear through the trial every time.

[tidge]

I also have a Mind/Poison controller. It's probably my favorite "proc monster" (note: I only try to leverage procs in specific ways) which can be seen in the Controller sub-forum:

 

16 hours ago, roleki said:

What Epic did you take?  I went Stone, and between all the procs, containment, and -Res, it will consistently take a 1500-point chunk out of an Orange con.   

My Mind/Poison went with Epic Force Mastery to get a %proc-ful Energy Torrent and a Resistance set IO mule.

 

I will note in this thread that I did not find the T9 Venomous Gas to be particularly useful, despite having it from level 38-50 while leveling. The short version of the story is that the Aura did not mesh well with my positioning/attack style. Comments on my build are in the linked post.

[roleki]

25 minutes ago, tidge said:

I also have a Mind/Poison controller. It's probably my favorite "proc monster" (note: I only try to leverage procs in specific ways) which can be seen in the Controller sub-forum:

 

My Mind/Poison went with Epic Force Mastery to get a %proc-ful Energy Torrent and a Resistance set IO mule.

 

I will note in this thread that I did not find the T9 Venomous Gas to be particularly useful, despite having it from level 38-50 while leveling. The short version of the story is that the Aura did not mesh well with my positioning/attack style. Comments on my build are in the linked post.

I don't want to hijack this thread any further, but I'm just so surprised to see other mind/poison folk show up that I can't really help myself; I've never seen another mind/poison in the game. 

 

It's interesting that you found Venemous Gas as the odd duck, as Terrify is what feels clunky to me.   Given that Venomous Gas and a proc'd-out Poison Trap complement each other, that's the combo I work towards after incapacitating the mob from range.  I have a few /poisons so I'm not 100% sure how the m/p has Venomous Gas slotted, but it's either 3x Enzyme Exposure and the Achilles' Heel proc, or 2x of the HO, an endurance IO, and the Achilles' Heel proc.  Either way, everything hits like a truck off this guy.

[tidge]

1 hour ago, roleki said:

It's interesting that you found Venemous Gas as the odd duck, as Terrify is what feels clunky to me.   Given that Venomous Gas and a proc'd-out Poison Trap complement each other, that's the combo I work towards after incapacitating the mob from range.  I have a few /poisons so I'm not 100% sure how the m/p has Venomous Gas slotted, but it's either 3x Enzyme Exposure and the Achilles' Heel proc, or 2x of the HO, an endurance IO, and the Achilles' Heel proc.  Either way, everything hits like a truck off this guy.

Much of my attitude on the choices comes from my specific playstyle for this character, as well as the levels I play at. I'm also extremely comfortable with cone attacks (that character has two, each with 4 %damage procs), and since all my other attack options (aside from Poison Trap @ level 35) are ranged attacks... I simply wasn't getting as much benefit from the -ToHit aura as I hoped.

 

The %proc rate of Auras is not good, and I didn't see Venomous Gas helping me against EB/AV.... and I ran with it through the 40+ into Praetoria arcs. Against everyone else, the controls do a better job protecting me... against EB/AV, I still found myself relying on controls to win fights, with or without the toggle.

 

I should note that while leveling up, I didn't include Terrify in my build. My mistake.

[Turric]

I have a poison/archery defender and can say that it is one of my weakest and least favorite characters. Sure, she is good against AVs, but otherwise is superfluous to a group. The heal is marginal. The debuffs are pretty good, but the problem is you cannot see that they are taking effect most of the time. I too wish the poison set was implemented differently. IMO, it never should have been a defender set (defender with poison? weird) but then again corruptors should be the main debuffers of the game (um, they corrupt...). But, whatever. There should have been some offensive component to it. More damage over time type stuff.

 

However, one alternative to consider is going night widow. Their needle attacks have poison to them which is kind of fun. Again, I wish they had leaned into the poison mastery for widow training, just as fortunatas are supposed to be the psychic operatives of that branch. Or, maybe poison mastery should be an epic set, or part of a patron pool. 

 

All the testimonies on this thread that support this character or that, often do so because of the strength of the other set, and not because of poison. Also, turning poison into a proc monster, while fun, does not speak of the strength of the set either. It does have a niche to be sure, but in the current state of the game, is rather weak for the majority of the gameplay IMO. And it doesn't have a good response to the player for "having done something". I wish poisoned enemies turned green and choked or something so I could really feel and others knew that I poisoned them. Playing alone you can kind of see the effect sometimes, but in groups, no way.

[Clave Dark 5]

42 minutes ago, Turric said:

but in the current state of the game, is rather weak for the majority of the gameplay IMO.

I prefer to think of poison more as "less crazy-super OP compared to most other power sets," but I'll tell ya, my Proc Monster Poison troller still hung just fine and wasn't a slouch.  I think I did skip that heal though.

[Mr. Vee]

47 minutes ago, Turric said:

All the testimonies on this thread that support this character or that, often do so because of the strength of the other set, and not because of poison. Also, turning poison into a proc monster, while fun, does not speak of the strength of the set either. 

Poison is my absolute favorite debuff set on its own merits. I have the hold procced out but apart from that it's not. And my secondary is DP which i don't even particularly care for. I expect if you're not finding it useful on teams it's because you're playing at range rather than in melee. Now granted, many support players don't want to play in melee but for poison to be its best it needs to be. 

[Bionic_Flea]

Personally, I love Poison on controllers.  Yes, defenders have bigger debuff numbers but controllers get two extra holds!  If built right, you can easily solo /x8 as you can completely lockdown spawn after spawn and then wade in with pets and debuffs to annihilate them.  The biggest issue for me on any poison is getting mezzed.  You are in the middle of a group seemingly godlike and untouchable and suddenly you get mezzed and collapse in a puddle.  So consider Rune of Protection, Clarion, or some other form of mez protection for your build.  If you really want to stick with a defender, consider Ice blast and an epic hold to be a Def-Troller!

[subbacultchas]

I have two or three poison characters, and it's a fantastic set if you know what you're doing. I have a Poison/Beam defender, who can hang in melee with the combination of def from ios and debuffs from poison. Also a Dark/Poison controller which is a fantastic proc monster, as both Dark and Poison have some good proc abilities and poison needs little in the way of extra slots. I have another in the teens, corruptor, but I think defender is much better so she sits on the sidelines.

If I had to do my defender over, I would probably do Poison/Water, and lose some of the single-target AV killing that my Poison/Beam has. Water has great AOEs that can be fired off point blank range, which you usually want to be as poison late-game. It also has a much needed self-heal, and some KD for more mitigation.

But it's overall a great set that many people overlook. On Excelsior, there's a Poison/Dark? defender named Dahkness that I've ran a few +4 x8 ITFs with. Always a blast seeing the defenders herding the groups together and melting the AV's. Overall I think poison is a very undervalued set on Controllers and Defender and you should definitely give it a try.