Any Updates on the "no streaming" rule?

[DoctorDitko]

Isn't HC the only group trying to negotiate a legitimate license? AFAIK, that's the case. Which means they need to be more careful of IP laws.

Seems pretty simple to me.

It's likely the NCSoft folks are politely negotiating, it's sort of a cultural thing to conduct negotiations as opposed to declaring war, which benefits us all. Anything that activates the lawyer-bots is not good, and "profiting" from streaming -- actually anything that amounts to advertising -- will aggro the lawyer-bots. The result will be bye, bye Homecoming!

Let's not aggro the sleeping dragon.

[Ukase]

8 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

Some moron with over a million pre-teen followers on YouTube made a video showing how you can make and play The Incredible Hulk on Homecoming.  The video was quickly taken down due to a copyright takedown notice.  Now, who can legitimately file a copyright infringement notice in regards to City of Heroes?

 

Very shortly after that incident, Homecoming announced their no streaming policy.

 

It's pretty easy to add two + two and come up with four.

Well - you had knowledge of that first "2" (the youtube video). It's the first I've heard of it. I'm pretty good at math, I just need to know where the numbers come from. 

[Wobegone]

I'm just speculating here...but is the problem more with fear of streaming that's monetized?

Edited December 26, 2020 by Ignatz the Insane

[Greycat]

21 minutes ago, Ignatz the Insane said:

I'm just speculating here...but is the problem more with fear of streaming that's monetized?

On most of the wording of the announcements, and GM commentary on the threads that have come up, it's been "While Homecoming is working on becoming legitimized." That (which can also be read as "the talks with NCSoft") is the only solid piece of information we have.  GM Tahquiz also mentioned it being "against the TOS of various streaming platforms" in their post. Unless HC or NCSoft say something additional, everything else is speculation of various quality.

 

 

[OldManMercy]

I tend to agree on the speculation part. Unless from official sources, anything that's being tossed about here is merely conjecture. I know I check Twitch on a fairly regular basis and CoH has been streamed pretty much every day for the past..... four months? There's not many viewers whenever I pop in and look around. Usually less than 20. One, perhaps two people streaming. *shrug* I'm just thankful for what I got.

[UltraAlt]

On 12/24/2020 at 7:10 PM, Rishidian said:

It always comes down to the lawyers.

 

Well, Lawyers, guns, and money if you listen to Warren Zevon.

[UltraAlt]

11 hours ago, DoctorDitko said:

It's likely the NCSoft folks are politely negotiating,

I'd say it's more likely that NCSoft doesn't have time to bother with City of Heroes.
It has no cultural significance in South Korea.

Apparently, it was a bigger hassle than it is worth.

Letting City of Heroes remain in a rogue state is also kind of a poke in the eye to Marvel and DC for giving them a hard time when the game was active under them.

NCSoft having any part of it at this point would also perhaps wake the sleeping Disney empire as Marvel is now under it's multi-tentacled elder-god-like control.

 

"These are not the superbeings that you are looking for."

[arcane]

12 hours ago, OldManMercy said:

Except I see other people daily streaming from other private servers. Thunderspy, for one. There's another two or three I forget the name of, but there's no such restriction on those. NCSoft isn't serving them a cease and desist, because it's a fairly regular occurrence. Seems HC is the ONLY ones doing this. Also, if it violates Twitch's service, why then for the past......however long HC has had the restriction have these people been able to stream from OTHER servers? Again, it's literally only HC here. Which is perfectly within their purview, but the reasons being given are shady due to non-unilateral enforcement. I.E., if Homecoming can't stream due to ToS violations, then why can Thunderspy? Or those others? With seeming impunity, too.

Perhaps you should provide links so that those Thunderspy streamers can be reported to Twitch. Perhaps they're just being overlooked.

[Oubliette_Red]

This is just the update involving mostly vireos and streaming, not the full CoC.

 

[Riverdusk]

On 12/24/2020 at 4:47 PM, Shenanigunner said:

 

Now there's a villain group we could all get some leveling from...

And yet there is one mission on hero side I end up doing on almost every character were you have to rescue like 12 lawyer hostages.  I always wonder if I'm really doing the heroic thing by completing that mission and setting all those lawyers free.

[QuiJon]

On 12/24/2020 at 12:24 PM, jackalcoh said:

I want to share my love for this game with the world.    But I will take no actions that  would ever jeopardize my access to this game.  In other words I abide by the rules.

See this is what all the streamers say is how they want to share their love of the game. However if you are that popular and have that many fans cant this be done by encouraging those fans to actually get in game with you and play your favorite game with you instead of just contributing to your monetization by watching your play? 

 

What i feel people are really saying is "Hey i love playing COH and would love to gouge its players for more subscription dollars on twitch if i was allowed to do so" cause it cost those fans nothing to be told "hey this is a great game, i am gonna be online playing it, character name x, make and acct and download "HERE" and come join me. 

 

It seems like it used to be "Come play with me" and now it is more "watch me play and subscribe"

[QuiJon]

9 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

NCSoft having any part of it at this point would also perhaps wake the sleeping Disney empire as Marvel is now under it's multi-tentacled elder-god-like control.

Disney bought marvel in 2009, while this game was still in live owned and operated by NC Soft. 

[WanderingAries]

I see this being locked by Monday, but just because other servers don't care to risk the chance of being squished doesn't mean HC does anytime soon. They took a risk as it was when they began their journey and have made Every effort to bring the game back well and beyond what we can see. I understand what people who stream are getting at, but I'd be willing to bet that those who read their streaming platform EULAs may find that it violates even That platform's guidelines.

[Doomguide2005]

1 hour ago, WanderingAries said:

I see this being locked by Monday, but just because other servers don't care to risk the chance of being squished doesn't mean HC does anytime soon. They took a risk as it was when they began their journey and have made Every effort to bring the game back well and beyond what we can see. I understand what people who stream are getting at, but I'd be willing to bet that those who read their streaming platform EULAs may find that it violates even That platform's guidelines.

Must have been another thread on topic but as I mentioned there if you are using the same character name as on Live you are right there are probably in violation as that character and name belong to NCSoft per the Terms we agreed to logging in on Live.  Just ask Jim Butcher (published author) who named his character after HIS own copyrighted character from the Dresden Files and had to argue with NCSoft that it was his to avoid becoming "generic123456".

[UltraAlt]

On 12/25/2020 at 9:54 PM, OldManMercy said:

if Homecoming can't stream due to ToS violations, then why can Thunderspy? Or those others? With seeming impunity, too.

Uh, I guess it's not in their ToS not to?

 

Want to stream so much then play on Thunderspy.

I know of another "gamer" that did that and they gave up streaming CoH pretty quickly.

I think they even gave up playing CoH honestly.

As I understand it, there is an entirely different breed of  players over there.

 

The point is no one here is trying to make money off of the game. The DEVs are working to insure no one makes money off it. That's pretty much the whole point.

If you are trying to make money of City of Heroes, kindly find some place else to game.

[UltraAlt]

On 12/26/2020 at 6:58 PM, QuiJon said:

Disney bought marvel in 2009, while this game was still in live owned and operated by NC Soft. 

Good time for NCSoft to prepare to cancel City of Heroes while Disney was negotiating in buying them out ... or could there have been a City of Heroes :: Marvel Comics Edition on the horizon back then if the dominos fell in a certain way?

An expansion with a parallel Marvel Comics world with it's own zones. I'm sure it would have been a microtransaction monstrosity. 

[Ukase]

Probably a new thread might be better for this question - but what if HC got a license to legitimately run CoH? I mean - it's worth asking, isn't it? 

Could streaming be allowed then? 
Would they charge money then? 
If so, would we expect new content on a routine basis?
Would they then chase the non-legit servers with C&D, or leave them alone? 
Would a meaningful portion of the current players here now leave for the free servers if they did start charging money? 

 

I wonder how all that would play out. 

Conversely - suppose there is a day in the future when NCSoft says, "No, you can't legitimately run our game."  Serving C&D papers at that point would be easy. Does the "Whack-a-mole" then begin? 

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

Could streaming be allowed then? 
Would they charge money then? 
If so, would we expect new content on a routine basis?
Would they then chase the non-legit servers with C&D, or leave them alone? 
Would a meaningful portion of the current players here now leave for the free servers if they did start charging money?

For thiese:

- Maybe.

- They've said repeatedly they would not charge money. "License" does not necessarily mean "yes you can make money on this."

- I'd expect, while some fetters may be off, they'd still need a larger team. "License" doesn't really mean they're now a professional development company - they're still a group of volunteers.

- Hard to say.

- See answer about charging. Personally, I wouldn't, because the team here has shown they are interested in good, solid development, not throwing things at the wall to see if they stick (and don't break the server. Just because it's spaghetti code doesn't mean you have to throw it at the wall.)

[wjrasmussen]

On 12/25/2020 at 6:54 PM, OldManMercy said:

Except I see other people daily streaming from other private servers. Thunderspy, for one. There's another two or three I forget the name of, but there's no such restriction on those. NCSoft isn't serving them a cease and desist, because it's a fairly regular occurrence. Seems HC is the ONLY ones doing this. Also, if it violates Twitch's service, why then for the past......however long HC has had the restriction have these people been able to stream from OTHER servers? Again, it's literally only HC here. Which is perfectly within their purview, but the reasons being given are shady due to non-unilateral enforcement. I.E., if Homecoming can't stream due to ToS violations, then why can Thunderspy? Or those others? With seeming impunity, too.

So biily does it so why can't I?

Well, people are selfish.

[GM Tock]

On 12/24/2020 at 2:24 PM, jackalcoh said:

Hi - I'm a streamer.  I love streaming video games and interacting with my fans who enjoy my content.

COH is and will always be my favorite video game.  Period.  I love this game.  I have so many good memories in this game.  I've met 2 partners inside this game. You'll never truly understand how much I love this game.

I want to share my love for this game with the world.    But I will take no actions that  would ever jeopardize my access to this game.  In other words I abide by the rules.

That said, would you please, please, please reconsider your "no streaming" rule?  It's been over a year now that we've had access to the game and it's completely changed my life again.

Would you please let of stream it?    It means so much to me on a personal level and it would mean everything if I could just show my love for this game to the world.

I'm begging - please let us stream COH: Homecoming.

To the OP: Nothing has changed since the last thread that asked.  When there is some development on this, it'll be shared in the Announcements forum, and possibly /motd worthy in-game as well.

As far as the rest of this, there's no productive outcome in continuing to speculate about the talks.  Thread locked.

Edited December 28, 2020 by GM Tahquitz