Weaponless Minimal Effect Option for Elemental Melee Sets

[krj12]

There are several melee sets that fall in this category:

 

Fire Melee - with various "Fire Sword" attacks.

Ice Melee - with "Ice Sword" attacks

Stone Melee - with "Mallet" attacks

 

None of these attacks really coincide with my concept of such a character... for example, the Human Torch when he

melees doesn't use a sword.  Don't believe I've ever seen the Grey Gargoyle use a huge mallet either,

or Iceman using a sword.

 

Since the assets are already there, it would be nice if these specific attacks could be replaced with a generic punching

animation, and if possible an associated fire/ice/stone graphical effect.

 

 

[Galaxy Brain]

Likewise, also allow all weapon versions 🙂

[Haijinx]

This one is actually on some list that they would like to do I believe.  Since Capt Powerhouse said as much.  

 

So more a case of waiting on their turn. 

[JKPhage]

5 hours ago, Haijinx said:

This one is actually on some list that they would like to do I believe.  Since Capt Powerhouse said as much.  

 

So more a case of waiting on their turn. 

Glad to hear it. I'll be thrilled to finally make myself a Fire character if I don't have to use those stupid swords. Likewise, I might actually enjoy making a hero that exclusively uses an Ice Sword for funsies.

[DZKFire]

Hopefully psi can make in too. I'm fan of the fire swords, but I dislike the psi swords. I'd love to be able to just spectral punch people with psi melee all day.

[krj12]

38 minutes ago, DZKFire said:

Hopefully psi can make in too. I'm fan of the fire swords, but I dislike the psi swords. I'd love to be able to just spectral punch people with psi melee all day.

I wasn't even aware there were psi swords.  :)    I may have to make a Psylocke tribute character.    But I'd pretty much want it the other way - psi swords for all of the attacks.

[Grindingsucks]

23 hours ago, krj12 said:

There are several melee sets that fall in this category:

 

Fire Melee - with various "Fire Sword" attacks.

Ice Melee - with "Ice Sword" attacks

Stone Melee - with "Mallet" attacks

 

None of these attacks really coincide with my concept of such a character... for example, the Human Torch when he

melees doesn't use a sword.  Don't believe I've ever seen the Grey Gargoyle use a huge mallet either,

or Iceman using a sword.

 

Since the assets are already there, it would be nice if these specific attacks could be replaced with a generic punching

animation, and if possible an associated fire/ice/stone graphical effect.

 

 

I agree.  They all look really terrible, too.  Ice sword is the worst offender, in this regard.  But, then, pretty much all the ice power animations look really ridiculous.

[RobotLove]

20 minutes ago, krj12 said:

I wasn't even aware there were psi swords.  :)    I may have to make a Psylocke tribute character.    But I'd pretty much want it the other way - psi swords for all of the attacks.

Brain swords BEST swords.

[JKPhage]

7 hours ago, DZKFire said:

Hopefully psi can make in too. I'm fan of the fire swords, but I dislike the psi swords. I'd love to be able to just spectral punch people with psi melee all day.

While I also think this would be really cool, I don't think it would be feasible. For several of the psi blade animations they'd have to create new particle/visual FX to attach to it as they're "chopping" animations, and the only psi "hand" effect we have is a fist. I suppose it *could* be animated as a fist smashing down/sideways, but it would look odd next to the open-hand animation. Likewise, the fist animations are very distinctly "punchy", with a forward fist animation and an uppercut animation. There's really no way I can visualize that would look good using a psi blade for those. Of course, they could always swap in alternate animations from other power sets (if the current devs are capable of this, which I guess they are?) that might need to be slowed down/sped up to match. Might be plausible to use a Titan Weapon animation with a psi blade for the uppercut and maybe a dual blade or assassin strike animation for the quick jab. I certainly wouldn't mind making my Psi/Will Brute use all blade attacks for consistency. I'm just not sure how well the fists would work as I don't know if they're capable of adding new VFX at this point, and then they'd have to find a way to make something that matches the existing fist closely.

 

Either way, that one seems a little more "labor intensive" than simply changing the particle effects on a sword attack to a flaming fist without having to change the animation itself. The punches > sword attack versions seem like they might be a little more finnicky as well. Honestly, as long as we could get a version sans swords, I'd be happy to wait on an all-swords version until later, just so I could finally make a fire mutant that doesn't feel the need to do stupid flashy things like make scimitars out of fire.

[Black Zot]

The energy/elemental weapons really should've been their own powerset(s) to begin with.  They smash the theme of their respective sets into pieces the minute they come out.  Just because I'm playing some sort of earth-themed character doesn't mean I'm going to be randomly conjuring up a sledgehammer.  (Seriously, anyone who gets hit with THAT was probably already out of the fight when the swing started.) 

 

It's another example of the OG devs having no clue how actual combat works - the time and energy wasted on crafting that fancy shape mid-battle would get you killed by any semi-competent adversary.

[Vanden]

4 hours ago, Black Zot said:

It's another example of the OG devs having no clue how actual combat works - the time and energy wasted on crafting that fancy shape mid-battle would get you killed by any semi-competent adversary.

How much time and energy does it actually take to form a mallet made of stone from your bare hands?

[Black Zot]

17 minutes ago, Vanden said:

How much time and energy does it actually take to form a mallet made of stone from your bare hands?

 

Far more than it would take to form a simple rock and bash someone with it, and the rock would hit harder.

[Vanden]

27 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

 

Far more than it would take to form a simple rock and bash someone with it, and the rock would hit harder.

But we have that power. Stone Fist. It’s weaker than either mallet attack.

[Black Zot]

2 hours ago, Vanden said:

But we have that power. Stone Fist. It’s weaker than either mallet attack.

Because, again, the guys who designed the set were more interested in gimmicks than what would actually win you a fight. 

[Shadowsleuth]

It's a huge project but hopefully at some point we can have customization of all weapon, no weapon or the mix of both we currently have.

 

And if we're talking pipe dreams, customization of that weapon (So you can choose between the type of weapon you want Sword, Club, Mallet, etc...) in the elemental style it's supposed to be (Fire, Ice, Stone).

[Vanden]

7 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

Because, again, the guys who designed the set were more interested in gimmicks than what would actually win you a fight. 

I'm pretty sure it's because the hammers use levers to increase the force of impact. If you're going to make an argument based on "realism" I don't think you can just ignore a basic physical law like that.

[Black Zot]

9 hours ago, Vanden said:

I'm pretty sure it's because the hammers use levers to increase the force of impact. If you're going to make an argument based on "realism" I don't think you can just ignore a basic physical law like that.

What I'm not ignoring is that the hammers are so brittle they visibly shatter on impact, wasting most of that built-up force.  A hammer that breaks when it hits a nail isn't going to drive that nail in very far, if at all.

 

It's like when two super-strong types are slugging it out on the street, and one of them grabs a car - if you're strong enough to swing something that unwieldy around fast enough to hit an actively dodging opponent, your fist is still going to hit harder than a weapon that disintegrates when it hits.  Comic book characters do this stuff for the same reason pro wrestlers do - they're showing off, actual efficacy be damned.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Black Zot

[BrandX]

I don't so much mind the weapon on Ice Melee (even if I took Frozen Fists over Ice Sword on my Ice/ Brute :p) but I do agree, I'd love some non weapon versions of those attacks.

[Vanden]

6 hours ago, Black Zot said:

What I'm not ignoring is that the hammers are so brittle they visibly shatter on impact, wasting most of that built-up force.  A hammer that breaks when it hits a nail isn't going to drive that nail in very far, if at all.

The hammers don't shatter, they stick around until your character leaves the weapon stance.

[Super Atom]

This is a good topic with a good message.

[DZKFire]

On 12/27/2020 at 4:50 PM, JKPhage said:

While I also think this would be really cool, I don't think it would be feasible. For several of the psi blade animations they'd have to create new particle/visual FX to attach to it as they're "chopping" animations, and the only psi "hand" effect we have is a fist. I suppose it *could* be animated as a fist smashing down/sideways, but it would look odd next to the open-hand animation. Likewise, the fist animations are very distinctly "punchy", with a forward fist animation and an uppercut animation. There's really no way I can visualize that would look good using a psi blade for those. Of course, they could always swap in alternate animations from other power sets (if the current devs are capable of this, which I guess they are?) that might need to be slowed down/sped up to match. Might be plausible to use a Titan Weapon animation with a psi blade for the uppercut and maybe a dual blade or assassin strike animation for the quick jab. I certainly wouldn't mind making my Psi/Will Brute use all blade attacks for consistency. I'm just not sure how well the fists would work as I don't know if they're capable of adding new VFX at this point, and then they'd have to find a way to make something that matches the existing fist closely.

 

Either way, that one seems a little more "labor intensive" than simply changing the particle effects on a sword attack to a flaming fist without having to change the animation itself. The punches > sword attack versions seem like they might be a little more finnicky as well. Honestly, as long as we could get a version sans swords, I'd be happy to wait on an all-swords version until later, just so I could finally make a fire mutant that doesn't feel the need to do stupid flashy things like make scimitars out of fire.

I'm not in disagreement, but TK blow from psi melee looks close to one of the stalker SJ punches, I think a slowed down version of the quick assassin's strike. I could see some of the alternate Super Strength and Street Justice animations being used for the ghost punches with adapted animation times. Especially since the HC team has shown they can change the animation times.

 

KO Blow or Crushing Uppercut on Great Psi Blade is the dream lol!

 

For the psi swords, I'm not sure since those are more unique than the punches.

[dangeraaron10]

I support this 100%

[Player2]

Not just for the melee sets, please.  Fire blast got this treatment with the Fire Breath attack was given an alternate from the hand animation... but fiery melee Breath of Fire remains a breath weapon animation only.

 

There are elemental melee attacks in the blaster and dominator secondaries that could also use the weapon/no weapon treatment.

[Tantricsecrets]

I'd like to see ice melee get different animations for the ice swords. Ice is my second favorite set but I cannot stand the swords nor the sound everytime they are summoned. The sound to me is worst than sonic resonance. 

 

I'd also like stone melee to get an alternative animation for tremor to something like footstomp.