Focused Feedback: Travel Power Updates (Build 1)

[macskull]

1 minute ago, Icecomet said:

 

No, didn't realize that, but, really, aside from having to spend a power on it now, its still USELESS!, OMG, a 30 second flight increase with a 60 second cool down.  It's as worthless as that jump pack at the p2w vendor, in MY opinion. 

With the current set of changes Fly + Evasive Maneuvers will give you flight speeds about equal to what you used to get with Fly + Afterburner active and now Afterburner will allow you to go even faster than that about half the time. It's a net buff.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Icecomet said:

 

No, didn't realize that, but, really, aside from having to spend a power on it now, its still USELESS!, OMG, a 30 second flight increase with a 60 second cool down.  It's as worthless as that jump pack at the p2w vendor, in MY opinion.  But that aside, my main concern is the ridiculous "hover" look while in flight mode.  flight mode should override the hover look and only when hover alone is used should the hover look be engaged, again, in my opinion.

 

Its not useless it boosts your fly speed for 30 seconds - its only useless for the next 60 - then not useless anymore.

 

And its free

[Shaman Coyote]

1 minute ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

Speed Phase is mostly a convenience tool that allows you to run through enemies or allies, even on very tightly packed corridors. It is not intended as a combat tool, or a safety tool.

 

 

This is exactly my point. There's no benefit to it other than mobility. It should not really cause OAS but even it if has to it should still not cause MMs to be unable to give pet commands. Given it's lack of combat utility it should not affect combat ability.

[Snowdaze]

3 minutes ago, Icecomet said:

 

Personally, any PvP'er should have multiple builds and their PvP build might include fly as a form of pursuit.  Also, with the additions to defense, they're now more attractive to more people.

 

These kinds of arguments about pools are lost on me because they are pool powers, everybody has access to them.  If you don't like fly on your toon, then you've made a choice to not fly, but that can easily be rectified with a respec.

 

 

This is incredibly dismissive toward a balance issue that just because you perceive it as a non-issue does not invalidate it's truth. There are reasons things like PVP web grenade temp powers were added to the game. Flying pvpers get cocky and giving them even more fly protection, when there is already a very large lack of -fly in game is a bad choice. Also flying melee combat is very very hard and flying ranged characters will always have an upper hand.

So what you are saying is the ground based scrapper should just grow wings and some ranged attacks?

[thunderforce]

1 hour ago, firelightx said:

So I don't know if I'd go calling Mighty Leap 'better' per se.

Better overall? I dunno. But it's arguably better at travelling around by jumping - certainly no worse - which is unfortunate if Super Jump is meant to be better at "the core thing it does". Conversely both Fly and Super Speed offer clear improvements on their Origin Pool equivalents now for that core purpose.

 

This would be very easily fixed by making Mighty Leap's speed cap slightly lower, with Takeoff putting it even with Super Jump.

[firelightx]

These are the new movement speed caps (without Afterburner or anything)

 

To achieve the running speed cap, it took

1 Run speed IO in Swift

3 Run Speed IOs in Super Speed

 

To achieve the flight speed cap, it took:

1 Flight Speed IO in Flight

Turning on Evasive Maneuvers (unslotted)

 

To achieve the Jump Speed & Jump Height caps, it took:

1 Jump IO in Hurdle
2 Jump IOs in Super Jump

 

 

With Afterburner on, the flight speed cap goes up to this. This is using the same slotting as mentioned above.

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by firelightx

[Myrmidon]

13 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

 

At this point this is a limitation of the implementation, only way around it is just not running both, hover and fly at once. If I can figure a means to do it that dont involve removing the animation from hover, it will be done, but cant promise that at this point.

May “Magneto Flight” never be fixed.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Myrmidon
Autocorrect is The Devil.

[macskull]

2 minutes ago, Snowdaze said:

This is incredibly dismissive toward a balance issue that just because you perceive it as a non-issue does not invalidate it's truth. There are reasons things like PVP web grenade temp powers were added to the game. Flying pvpers get cocky and giving them even more fly protection, when there is already a very large lack of -fly in game is a bad choice. Also flying melee combat is very very hard and flying ranged characters will always have an upper hand.

So what you are saying is the ground based scrapper should just grow wings and some ranged attacks?

The easiest way to deal with a flying character in PvP if you don't have any -fly is to just ignore them, since flight is so much slower than other travel power speeds.

[Tigraine]

10 minutes ago, jojogladco said:

So you'll be ahead movement speedwise in the new system. You'll no longer take AB since it's a server tray power. You'll replace with AB with EM, which will take your LotG Recharge and when toggled on make you fly faster than you used  to fly with AB turned on and when you really want to go fast you can hit AB now and bump all the way up to 102mph. It's a netgain for you 

For 30 seconds at a time.  That was the complaint.

[Snowdaze]

2 minutes ago, firelightx said:

These are the new movement speed caps (without Afterburner or anything)

 

To achieve the running speed cap, it took

1 Run speed IO in Swift

3 Run Speed IOs in Super Speed

 

To achieve the flight speed cap, it took:

1 Flight Speed IO in Flight

Turning on Evasive Maneuvers (unslotted)

 

To achieve the Jump Speed & Jump Height caps, it took:

1 Jump IO in Hurdle
2 Jump IOs in Super Jump

 

The above seems to also be true if taking Speed of Sound or Mighty Leap

(Mystic Flight doesn't have Evasive Maneuvers so you'll have to be more creative to hit its speed cap)

 

With Afterburner on, the flight speed cap goes up to. This is using the same slotting as mentioned above.

 

redo this with boosters, I know 2 run IO's with full boosters gets you in the 119's

[Snowdaze]

2 minutes ago, macskull said:

The easiest way to deal with a flying character in PvP if you don't have any -fly is to just ignore them, since flight is so much slower than other travel power speeds.

formerly yes, but NOW... Fly is Not so slow anymore... it CAN out pace superjump now!

Edited March 13, 2021 by Snowdaze

[Greycat]

So poking around a bit -

Yeah, getting a good fly pose on Hover when running HOver+Fly would be nice.

Workaround, if people remember, is to hit Fly, set a fly pose, then add Hover, as that keeps the pose. It is, however, very clunky. If you have Hover running already, flypose doesn't have any effect.

[Tigraine]

10 minutes ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

 

At this point this is a limitation of the implementation, only way around it is just not running both, hover and fly at once. If I can figure a means to do it that dont involve removing the animation from hover, it will be done, but cant promise that at this point.

The problem is that when they were mutually exclusive, it was easy to toggle between them with a single click/push of a button.  Now they have to be managed individually and manually (unless someone has figured out a macro to handle this; I suppose it could work with some rolling bind files).

[macskull]

2 minutes ago, Snowdaze said:

formerly yes, but NOW... Fly is Not so slow anymore... it CAN out pace superjump now!

The movement cap buffs don't apply to PvP.

[Monos King]

1 minute ago, Tigraine said:

Now they have to be managed individually and manually (unless someone has figured out a macro to handle this; I suppose it could work with some rolling bind files).

Why wouldn't you just click hover on and off and leave it at that? Is there some situation where that wouldn't solve the issue?

[Snowdaze]

3 minutes ago, macskull said:

The movement cap buffs don't apply to PvP.

making afterburner and evasive maneuvers more dangerous as it does work in pvp as per the patch notes

Edited March 13, 2021 by Snowdaze

[Rathulfr]

4 minutes ago, Tigraine said:

The problem is that when they were mutually exclusive, it was easy to toggle between them with a single click/push of a button.  Now they have to be managed individually and manually (unless someone has figured out a macro to handle this; I suppose it could work with some rolling bind files).

 

[Tigraine]

1 minute ago, Monos King said:

Why wouldn't you just click hover on and off and leave it at that? Is there some situation where that wouldn't solve the issue?

Because then you're paying the End cost of fly when you don't necessarily want/get/need the benefits of it?  Seriously, there are plenty of times I'd want Hover active but not Fly, and making it more complicated to swap between them is a pain.

[Icecomet]

Just now, Tigraine said:

Because then you're paying the End cost of fly when you don't necessarily want/get/need the benefits of it?  Seriously, there are plenty of times I'd want Hover active but not Fly, and making it more complicated to swap between them is a pain.

 

I am with you on this, I'd rather hover use the fly stance like it did originally on LIVE than to fly around the city standing up.  It's just awful...  😞

 

[Monos King]

Just now, Tigraine said:

Because then you're paying the End cost of fly when you don't necessarily want/get/need the benefits of it?  Seriously, there are plenty of times I'd want Hover active but not Fly, and making it more complicated to swap between them is a pain.

Ok, I thought it might be an endurance issue. I can't think of any means to address that problem myself honestly, maybe you'll have to prep by running one alone first and then having a powexec button that activates them both.

[Rathulfr]

On 3/13/2021 at 11:37 AM, Monos King said:

Ok, I thought it might be an endurance issue. I can't think of any means to address that problem myself honestly, maybe you'll have to prep by running one alone first and then having a powexec button that activates them both.

 

I'm going to play around with different bind/macro alternatives later today to see what works best.

It might be as simple as: leave Hover on all the time, and simply toggle Fly off and on, so that its animation trumps the Hover animation.

 

(edit, later after testing:) If you prefer classic flight poses to Magneto Flight, it's as simple as leave Fly on all the time, and toggle Hover on and off as needed.  Here's the bind command sequence:

 

/bind <key> "powexecname Hover$$powexectoggleon Fly"

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Rathulfr

[Monos King]

It seems there's two separate arguments though, these being "I don't like the hover animation" and the other being "I want to swap between hover and flight easier". One seems pretty straightforward in what you'll have to be doing.

[Tigraine]

2 minutes ago, Monos King said:

Ok, I thought it might be an endurance issue. I can't think of any means to address that problem myself honestly, maybe you'll have to prep by running one alone first and then having a powexec button that activates them both.

Which is still two clicks/key presses, so zero improvement.

[Icecomet]

Also, not a fan of the incessant "popping up" a 4th power tray when I activate fly.  I've lobbied previously to add additional anchored power trays which is certainly something I know would appeal to more than just me.

 

 

[Greycat]

OK, so, concealment.

 

The biggest issue here, to me, is that we lost Invisibility, for two reasons -

1. Both stealths (the stealth and the new travel power) have a 35ish foot PVE radius, versus Invisibility's 55 (ish) foot. Which means that, unlike Invisibility, I can't just walk up to a mob and - Perception buffs or ignoring invis (like Rikti drones) aside - not be noticed.  (Example, live, walking up and firing off a nuke or rain.)

 

Edit: I have no idea what happened while I was testing this the first time. Both were showing the same short radius (and yes, I did make sure I had the right toggle on, and had no taunt auras. I even zoned to get to some even con mobs from where I did the second build to check this and other powers out.) After feedback, I went back in and stealth *was* showing the larger radius, and mobs were not aggroing. Which is just ... odd, there's no patch I know of in between, so... yeah. Disregard point one, then! Though, if anyone else runs across or can duplicate the short-radius Stealth, obviously, note how and let the devs know.

 

2. There's no power making you *invisible.* You're now translucent. OK, yes, aesthetic thing, but it fit some characters.  You can make others invisible with Grant Invisibility, or be Illusion or a stalker, but it's been lost for everyone else.

 

Potential Suggestions:

1. +Stealth IO/enhancement, only works in Stealth powers. Boosts stealth range. Not needed, see edit from 1.

2. Celerity +Stealth. However, I don't consider this ideal because I may not *want* the movement boost from Infiltration.  (Plus, for the second point, it doesn't do anything for the "I'm invisible!" aspect.) I suspect this will happen quite a bit. Especially for those who like toe-bombing.

3. Remove the exclusivity between stealth and infiltration - again, wouldn't change the graphical aspect of it.  (See edit from 1.)

4. Grant Invisibility becomes a self-affecting toggle. (May annoy teammates.)

 

CAN the graphical aspect of being *invisible* (with the aura) be put in as an option, at the very least?

 

Edit: So now the only real complaint I have after retesting is the lack of graphical invisibility.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Greycat