Focused Feedback: Travel Power Updates (Build 1)

[macskull]

3 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

That isn't how it looks from the description. And doesn't negate that you've messed up a travel power that would require respeccing your whole character to keep 'the same' when you had afterburner for max speed for long distances.

With this patch you do not need Afterburner to exceed even the previous flight speed cap. You can go faster now without Afterburner than you could with Afterburner before, so your character has lost no ability at all. In order to go even faster than that you'll need to occasionally toggle on another power. This isn't a loss in speed at all.

[macskull]

1 minute ago, arthurh35353 said:

And yet my afterburner power choice is getting messed up which was a power choice for a 5th option to go faster. Now that choice is broken in the name of 'speeding things up'.

You know you can still just... not turn on Afterburner, right? You still have a choice.

Edited March 13, 2021 by macskull

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

And yet my afterburner power choice is getting messed up which was a power choice for a 5th option to go faster. Now that choice is broken in the name of 'speeding things up'.

You can with the right slotting achieve previous Fly+AB speeds with just fly

[Jimmy]

15 minutes ago, InfamousBrad said:

At 7 pages of comments before I even woke up, someone has probably said this, but I have two minor concerns about the travel power redesign, both related to the "cottage" rule.

These are some good points!

 

15 minutes ago, InfamousBrad said:

One of the fundamental principles behind all the travel powers in the game is that the easier they are to use, the slower they are, which is why flight is slower than super leap is slower than teleport is slower than superspeed. If the flight speed cap is higher than the jump speed cap, why would anybody ever take super leap? The jump speed cap may not need to be much higher than the flight speed cap, its base speed doesn't need to be much faster than fly's base speed. But under the "cottage" rule, it absolutely does need to be faster.

We have kept this in mind with the changes - Fly isn't actually faster than Super Jump all the time, only a tiny bit faster for short bursts with Afterburner.

• Super Jump = 101.8mph
• Fly = 87.9mph
• Fly with Afterburner = 102.27mph (only for 30s out of every 90s)

15 minutes ago, InfamousBrad said:

Similarly, travel speed scales with level for a solid design reason: with few exceptions, higher level zones are physically bigger than lower level zones. It should take a level 14 character about the same time to fly the length of Port Oakes that it takes them, at level 35, to fly the length of St. Martial, that it takes them, at level 50, to fly the length of Grandville. (Independence Port and Nerva break these rules, and that's why they've always been hated). Since it's literally impossible to resize the lowbie zones, I think the travel speed cap should probably still scale with level. I'm not going to fight and die on this hill ... but the rule exists for a good reason.

Although the powers themselves don't scale, Enhancements and other bonuses do.

 

This means that as you level up and change your slotting or gain set bonuses you still will be gaining speed. You definitely can't hit the max speeds as soon as you get the powers - without set bonuses, you need to 3 slot SOs to even come close to the flight cap.

[ScarySai]

You keep afterburner and make zero slotting compromises with the new power in the process.

 

It's frankly a nonsensical complaint.

[America's Angel]

1 hour ago, Captain Powerhouse said:

 

Web Grenade is -10 mag fly.

Evasive Maneuvers is only mag 4 fly protection, on top of mag 1 from fly powers.

This change will, at this time, only protect from things like a few Air Superiority attacks or weaker -fly attacks.

 

Any change from there, for PvP, are up to PvP community agreement. But keep in mind the old Afterburner already offered this same Mag 4 protection. This is not new, players were just not able to attack while running the old Afterburner.

Yeah, Evasive Manuevers is a complete non-issue in PVP.

 

Especially when you can take hover instead for +3 mag fly and run it alongside flight to cancel out Air Superiority, Entangle, etc. (Without a cooldown.)

[Teirusu]

3 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

You can already turn off Group Fly by talking with Null the Gull in Pocket D.

 

Why should the 7 people on your team -have- to visit Null the Gull just so that you can enjoy having flying robots in peace?  Or, the situation of 6 of those people maybe have bothered to visit Null the Gull and disabled it...  But then you have one person whom did not.  Now you're annoying them with Group Fly and that reduces your fun.

Besides, I don't see anything negative by giving the player more control over how the power works.  With a toggle like this, you could just use Group Fly as a worse version of Fly and then, only toggle it on for the team during those very rare times that it's useful to do so.  That could allow for a build that just takes Hover and Air Superiority and Group Fly.  (Not sure how useful that be to anyone, but you never know?  Maybe someone that takes another travel power instead?)

The only downside I see is that if you want to allow team flying, then you have to turn on two toggles, instead of one.  But, considering how little Group Fly is used already, I'm sure that isn't going to be a huge problem.

[Glacier Peak]

5 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

Yeah, Evasive Manuevers is a complete non-issue in PVP.

 

Especially when you can take hover instead for +3 mag fly and run it alongside flight to cancel out Air Superiority, Entangle, etc. (Without a cooldown.)

Indeed, I was hit with 3 stacks of entangle before dropping from the sky (mind you, I was stationary and intentionally being attacked). The combination of those protections gave me more then enough time to smash space bar to escape attack range. 

[arthurh35353]

7 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

You can with the right slotting achieve previous Fly+AB speeds with just fly

And yet, my choice of Fly + Swift + Afterburner to go the absolute fastest I *could* go no longer exists. While the numbers might technically be 'faster' my power and slot choices are no longer valid and I have to respec my character and figure out what power I want to steal from to get the 'fastest I could go'.

[Errants]

2 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

And yet, my choice of Fly + Swift + Afterburner to go the absolute fastest I *could* go no longer exists. While the numbers might technically be 'faster' my power and slot choices are no longer valid and I have to respec my character and figure out what power I want to steal from to get the 'fastest I could go'.

Welcome to the joys of MMO's... Change is the only constant.

Also, that slotting will STILL have you at the "fastest I could go" for flight, as you've literally lost NOTHING to flyspeed in the patch. AB now allows you to go even faster, Tails, but only 1/3rd of the time.

[Infinitum]

5 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

And yet, my choice of Fly + Swift + Afterburner to go the absolute fastest I *could* go no longer exists. While the numbers might technically be 'faster' my power and slot choices are no longer valid and I have to respec my character and figure out what power I want to steal from to get the 'fastest I could go'.

Its not technically, its an absolute of "is" faster.

 

You don't have to steal - I have fly + AB on literally all but 2 of 50 characters.

 

Fly is usually 1 slotted, fly io in swift, and defense in AB.

 

With the change, I am as fast as I was - with actual combat functionality at that speed if I wanted and a bonus of being even faster.

 

If these were bad changes I would know it.

 

The argument that I cant max speed 100% of the time isnt valid because the change allows You to be 100% of your previous max plus more without losing any slots or functionality. And even faster for decent durations of being a hero and pushing your speed to the max to save the day.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Infinitum

[America's Angel]

3 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Indeed, I was hit with 3 stacks of entangle before dropping from the sky (mind you, I was stationary and intentionally being attacked). The combination of those protections gave me more then enough time to smash space bar to escape attack range. 

Glad to hear it's working right. I was testing it earlier, too. Even with hover+evasive maneuvers stacked, the pvp temp web grenade was still dropping my flier.

[arthurh35353]

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

The argument that I cant max speed 100% of the time isnt valid because the change allows You to be 100% of your previous max plus more without losing any slots or functionality.

Except my choice and power picks to go the fastest (because I was at speed cap all the time) is no longer valid. I have had one of my top tier powers changed on me. So now to go the fastest I can go (my previous choice) I actually have to change my slots and it is now annoying with afterburner cutting out on long flight (and I was almost thinking that the Shadow Shard was going to be less annoying).

[Shaladar]

Regarding the Fly/Hover animation issue. Could we get something like the new Default Stance (Normal, Ninja, Beast, Slide) option that was just implemented but for a Default Flight Pose ( Normal, Hover, Flypose1, Flypose2,3,4, etc..) that kicks in whenever a "Fly Power" is active?

 

And for Group Flight affecting pets vs group members could we just leave Group as is and simply allow "Fly" powers to apply to MM pets since they are a normal extension of the MM?

[Jimmy]

8 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

And yet, my choice of Fly + Swift + Afterburner to go the absolute fastest I *could* go no longer exists. While the numbers might technically be 'faster' my power and slot choices are no longer valid and I have to respec my character and figure out what power I want to steal from to get the 'fastest I could go'.

I'm really struggling to understand what you're trying to say here.

 

You already had Fly.

 

Fly now makes you as fast as Fly + Afterburner used to.

 

You can optionally also use the new version of Afterburner (a free power that you do not need to pick or slot) to go even faster.

 

Evasive Maneuvers isn't a travel power. It's a defensive combat mobility power. It's not needed to go fast, so if you only care about travelling and going fast, you can pretend it doesn't exist.

 

The new speed that Afterburner takes you to isn't appropriate as a permenant Fly speed in order to keep the various travel powers balanced.

 

Your existing slotting will either have you be as fast, or faster, than before, both with and without activating the new version of Afterburner.

[Infinitum]

Just now, arthurh35353 said:

Except my choice and power picks to go the fastest (because I was at speed cap all the time) is no longer valid. I have had one of my top tier powers changed on me. So now to go the fastest I can go (my previous choice) I actually have to change my slots and it is now annoying with afterburner cutting out on long flight (and I was almost thinking that the Shadow Shard was going to be less annoying).

Missing the point boss its a design change - that allows you to be as fast as you were without changing a thing amd faster in 30 second durations - no its not perma - but its still the way you were (not losing a thing) plus an additive bonus of being FASTER for 30 seconds.

[Glacier Peak]

1 minute ago, America's Angel said:

Glad to hear it's working right. I was testing it earlier, too. Even with hover+evasive maneuvers stacked, the pvp temp web grenade was still dropping my flier.

Yeah the PvP Web Nade Temp is certainly aggressive with a Mag 10 -Fly and recharge time of 4 seconds - were you able to discern whether it's effects stack? I know they last 15 seconds, so if you could use 4 in a row, would that hit Mag 40 -Fly?

[arthurh35353]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

I'm really struggling to understand what you're trying to say here.

You changed my top level pick into a combat power, removing my all the time on max flight power that I had for ease of travel. 

 

It's that easy. 

 

It isn't the numbers, it was how it was used.

Edited March 13, 2021 by arthurh35353

[Gadzookery]

I like these changes a lot! Sometimes I can be a little iffy with HC changes cause its always like "Ehhh changing the game from how it used to be" but these are all super beneficial and answers a minor complaint I had since live in regards to the jet pack powers and such. It really makes you wanna pick the travel powers.

 

The only thing I'd change, and it is a SUPER minor thing I know but its a suggestion at least: I feel like Concealment should have something "Invisiblity" related. Its a superhero game and I feel there should be a power called Invisibility in a game with superpowers. Invisibility is one of the major superpowers always referred to. If anything I'd call Stealth Invisbility and Infiltration Stealth. Or maybe even rename the Concealment power set to Invisibility? Also what appearance will the new Stealth have? The stealth appearance or Invisbility one? Since they're slightly different in transparency? Again relatively minor but it would be nice to have something called Invisibility in a superhero game.

[Greycat]

42 minutes ago, InfamousBrad said:

. If the flight speed cap is higher than the jump speed cap, why would anybody ever take super leap?

 

Because not everyone plays for the biggest numbers.

 

If my character's supposed to fly, I'll gain more enjoyment out of the game if they're flying, not if they're jumping around.

[macskull]

3 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

You changed my top level pick into a combat power, removing my all the time on max flight power that I had for ease of travel. 

 

It's that easy. 

You keep ignoring how you are now able to move around faster than you used to. You have literally lost nothing with this change, but you have gained the potential to go even faster than the new "faster" if you choose to invest the slots. If you log on and do nothing with your characters you are still just as fast as you were before and you even get to free up one power pick for something else.

Edited March 13, 2021 by macskull

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

You changed my top level pick into a combat power, removing my all the time on max flight power that I had for ease of travel. 

 

It's that easy. 

 

It isn't the numbers, it was how it was used.

You are still that fast without it - you gained that with the change.

 

You havent lost that ability.

 

With the new ability you are faster in bursts - its not perma but it's fair.

 

How are You not grasping this?

[arthurh35353]

1 minute ago, macskull said:

You keep ignoring how you are now able to move around faster than you used to.

 

  

Just now, Infinitum said:

How are You not grasping this?

 

And you keep ignoring that it's not about the numbers, but now to go the absolute fastest on long flights, I have to click an annoying toggle that turns itself off.

Edited March 13, 2021 by arthurh35353

[macskull]

 

Just now, arthurh35353 said:

And you keep ignoring that it's not about the numbers, but now to go the absolute fastest on long flights, I have to click an annoying toggle that turns itself off.

So your complaint is "in order for my character to be even better than it was, I have to rework my build?"

[Arcanum]

Okay, I think now's a good time to call it quits on this conversation. We've gathered all we can from it. The feedback and opinion has been noted!

 

Let's move on to additional constructive feedback of the Travel Powers.