Focused Feedback: Travel Power Updates (Build 1)

[Arbegla]

9 minutes ago, RogueWolf said:

KB protect is nice, but not for that high a cost, and it can be gained by IOs. Most ATs who are susceptible to immobilize don't care much about getting immobilized.

 

I'm mostly thinking of my blaster here. The minor save vs Hold in Acrobatics is useful to them. EM is not in its current form. Especially when I can't slot it with anything useful because I need to put two end reductions into it so I can keep it on... tho why would I?  There are no flight control issues when hovering.

 

Well, another thing to consider is that Combat Jumping also gives immobilize protection, so you might not notice it happening if you have Combat Jumping.

 

EM gives more flight speed (rough numbers looks like double Hover base speed, plus you can use both at the same time if you really wanted) and I saw that are going to reduce the endurance cost in the next round of patches. Also, don't undervalue -fly protection. Lots of things have -fly that you don't realize, and when you go from Hover-blasting, to being stuck on the ground, things can go south very fast.

 

I can see the use for it, but its definitely not a power gamer tool. But really, fly never was to begin with 🙂

[Glacier Peak]

18 minutes ago, RogueWolf said:

KB protect is nice, but not for that high a cost, and it can be gained by IOs. Most ATs who are susceptible to immobilize don't care much about getting immobilized.

 

I'm mostly thinking of my blaster here. The minor save vs Hold in Acrobatics is useful to them. EM is not in its current form. Especially when I can't slot it with anything useful because I need to put two end reductions into it so I can keep it on... tho why would I?  There are no flight control issues when hovering.

I am confused, are you comparing your current build on Live to one on Beta and finding these discrepancies? If you took Acrobatics on your blaster on Live, wouldn't you still have in on your character on the beta? Are you choosing between a power you have and a power you don't have? 

 

As for slotting, it takes all defensive, flight, and universal travel sets.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Glacier Peak
correction to IO sets

[Parabola]

5 minutes ago, RogueWolf said:

KB protect is nice, but not for that high a cost, and it can be gained by IOs. Most ATs who are susceptible to immobilize don't care much about getting immobilized.

 

I'm mostly thinking of my blaster here. The minor save vs Hold in Acrobatics is useful to them. EM is not in its current form. Especially when I can't slot it with anything useful because I need to put two end reductions into it so I can keep it on... tho why would I?  There are no flight control issues when hovering.

You do move mighty quickly with hover + em. I can see myself taking it on kiting hoverblasters who can stomach the end cost because of their sustains. (The end cost does seem a bit steep though devs.) The added mez resists and out of combat defence are nice but not really the selling point to me. I take afterburner as a lotg mule anyway so I may as well take em and have the option of very fast kiting when I want it.

[CaptainLupis]

4 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

I am confused, are you comparing your current build on Live to one on Beta and finding these discrepancies? If you took Acrobatics on your blaster on Live, wouldn't you still have in on your character on the beta? Are you choosing between a power you have and a power you don't have? 

 

As for slotting, it takes all defensive, endurance, and flight sets.

Endurance? You mean universal travel as that's what it takes as well as defensive and flight sets.

 

[Glacier Peak]

3 minutes ago, CaptainLupis said:

Endurance? You mean universal travel as that's what it takes as well as defensive and flight sets.

Yes, thank you for the correction.

 

[CaptainLupis]

Just now, Glacier Peak said:

Yes, thank you for the correction.

 

You had me wondering if there was a feature of it that I had missed and wasn't in the description.

 

But on the topic of universal travel sets if people are worried about the end cost you can slot the BotZ -kb IO in it and get some extra knockback protection for no endurance cost.

[arthurh35353]

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

Here is something of interest I found from testing - Masterminds are able to continue utilizing the Evasive Maneuvers defense buff even while in combat.

I would assume that is not intended, because that's a huge buff only based on not attacking directly.

1 hour ago, Glacier Peak said:

Evasive Maneuvers provides Res to (-Fly and Immobilize) and 138.40% resistance to knockup on self. That being said, absent of any evidence, I have to assume that you data mined player power choice in order to come up with your conclusion? Can you provide some of your data? 

Yes, they are changing the power wholesale, which they only do when it is either broken or is so lackluster that it needs a full rewrite.

 

This rewrite is basically... meh. I wouldn't buy it. Hover is more than enough 'combat flight'. Fly is enough for most long distance flight, but now needs another slot. Evasive Maneuvers is... a power looking for a real reason for people to want it.

 

I thought it was aimed at PvP because the -fly and -KB protection are basically noncritical nonentities for PvE.

Edited March 17, 2021 by arthurh35353

[RogueWolf]

I think it boils down to this (since endo cost is being addressed) ...

 

Flying: I think that Evasive Maneuvers should include +2 vs Hold as well as the immobilize to make flying comparable to leaping for blasters in combat. Otherwise I feel forced to give all my blasters the Leaping pool like I do now, which kinda sucks for some toon concepts.

 

Concealment: The new Stealth should offer a minor defense bonus IN combat like Combat Jump. Otherwise it seems redundant with Infiltration (kind of a waste just to unlock phase shift or misdirection). I see the benefit to Masterminds who never actively attack (which I'm guessing is a fairly small minority). Or as a vanity power for impatient people who just want to stealth through everything. Not so much for the rest of us.

 

Just my humble feedback. Not trying to open a debate.

Edited March 17, 2021 by RogueWolf

[Sovera]

53 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

While this is your opinion, the fact is that Evasive Maneuvers provides clear benefits for its selection that work seamlessly with the other powers in the flight travel pool.

 

- Hover is the entry level power in the flight travel pool and it exists for "hovering and aerial combat. This power is much slower than Fly, but provides some Defense to all attacks, offers good air control, costs little Endurance, and has none of the penalties associated with Fly" (Power Description quote). It is recommended for use when fighting other flying enemies. By the numbers it provides a 4.05 magnitude buff to Fly on self and a 2.95% strength to all defense on self, which is enhanceable and it costs 0.10/s endurance.

- Fly is the primary travel power in the flight travel pool and provides the highest freedom of movement among all travel powers contrasted against its low level of active management from the player. "Fly allows you to travel large distances quickly. If you attack a target while this power is on, your flight speed will be temporarily reduced to Hover speed. Fly also increases your maximum flying speed by 50% and gives you access to the Afterburner power whilst it is active." It offers a 1.00 magnitude buff to fly on self and costs .30/s endurance.

- Finally, Evasive Maneuvers "provides increased flight control and flight speed in combat, along with resistance to knockback and protection against -Fly and Immobilization. Evasive Maneuvers also provides a small amount of Defense whilst you are not engaged in combat", it costs .252/s endurance and provides both in combat and out of combat bonuses. 

 

I may be missing something, but your costs seem different than what I have.

 

         

 

I've been saying that EM has too high a costs for something that is meant to be on all the time. Bopper said EM's costs will be lower but he probably has insider knowledge. I did notice there have been some small patches without patch notes, but this is from the PTS.

[aethereal]

It'd be nice if the various P2W travel powers (panther form, coyote form, void skiff, rocket board) got a buff here to be midway between the free runs and the full-on-for-real travel powers.

[Glacier Peak]

5 minutes ago, Sovera said:

I may be missing something, but your costs seem different than what I have.

         

I've been saying that EM has too high a costs for something that is meant to be on all the time. Bopper said EM's costs will be lower but he probably has insider knowledge. I did notice there have been some small patches without patch notes, but this is from the PTS.

Thank you for checking my numbers! I fixed my post.

[arthurh35353]

5 minutes ago, aethereal said:

It'd be nice if the various P2W travel powers (panther form, coyote form, void skiff, rocket board) got a buff here to be midway between the free runs and the full-on-for-real travel powers.

They are specifically not buffing the P2W powers so that the power pools will be qualitatively better.

[Sovera]

3 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

I would assume that is not intended, because that's a huge buff only based on not attacking directly.

Yes, they are changing the power wholesale, which they only do when it is either broken or is so lackluster that it needs a full rewrite.

 

This rewrite is basically... meh. I wouldn't buy it. Hover is more than enough 'combat flight'. Fly is enough for most long distance flight, but now needs another slot. Evasive Maneuvers is... a power looking for a real reason for people to want it.

 

I thought it was aimed at PvP because the -fly and -KB protection are basically nonentities for PvE.

 

Don't undersell EM. While it is too expensive to be run all the time Next patch will lower the cost to a much more reasonable 0.26. It serves a triple function:

 

A) Eliminates the need for Fly to be slotted to reach the fly cap. With my build, without EM, Fly will be going at 63 MPH, and while, yes, it can reach 87mph with two slots dedicated to Fly IOs EM takes care of it.

B) Having one slot dedicated to a -KB IO is not enough to completely protect against KB. My Fire Armor character has only only one -KB so 4 points of protection, and Lightning Storm, pylon blasts, some attacks from Talon and Enlightened, will go through my defenses and my -KB and make me bounce. Some power sets will ignore this completely and won't care. Again, we can dedicate more slots to -KB IOs or have EM on which pushes that 4 -KB to 8 -KB. For example pylons no longer made my fire armor character bounce around.

C) LotG mule. Not all sets care about this, but it is a use the old Afterburner had in taking this and EM takes up the role.

 

Of course that if you have enough slots to distribute for fly speed and for extra KB protection, play a melee with a armor set that offers complete KB covered, or have a power set with enough defense powers that can slot LotGs then it is a less attractive proposition.

 

Otherwise it is a nifty one slot wonder.

 

Also, Hover with another 20kpm tacked on is a 50 kpm in combat movement. AKA no longer old Hover slightly faster than Sprint.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Sovera

[Bopper]

10 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Having one slot dedicated to a -KB IO is not enough to completely protect against KB. My Fire Armor character has only only one -KB so 4 points of protection

It's currently bugged, but I think there's evidence of lack in testing out the KB resistance provided by EM because the buff It's providing is insane (OP, even). The cap for KB resistance is 99% which would turn a 100 mag KB attack into a 1.0 mag KB attack. So having something like a 3 KB set bonus combined with EM currently gives you 300 mag protection. Of course, we don't know how this will change in the next patch, but my guess is it will be set to something like +60% improvement to your build's magnitude protection.

Edited March 17, 2021 by Bopper

[aethereal]

12 minutes ago, arthurh35353 said:

They are specifically not buffing the P2W powers so that the power pools will be qualitatively better.

 

The powers I identified -- the non-free P2W powers -- should get a benefit over the free P2W powers.  Right now, they're largely worse.  And the free P2W powers are getting the ability to stack with actual travel powers, which the non-free P2W powers don't get because they're exclusive.  So, while panther form shouldn't be as fast as Superspeed of course, or jump as well as Super Jump, it should be better than Athletic Run -- both because it costs money and Athletic Run doesn't, and also because Athletic Run can be run alongside Superspeed (to get the jump of Athletic Run and the run speed of Superspeed) or alongside Super Jump (to get the run speed of Athletic run and the jump of Super Jump), and panther form can't.

 

These are not powers that I think we need to worry very much about the balance of.  Just the fact that they detoggle you, and can't be used with any attacks, is going to keep them niche choices.  They shouldn't be The Very Best travel powers, but making them solidly better than Athletic Run or the jetpacks is fine.

Edited March 17, 2021 by aethereal

[RogueWolf]

I am confident I am not only speaking for myself when I read all this praise for being able to move SOOO much faster and I say... So? Do people really blow slots on travel to fly super fast with all of the tport options? The speed bump is nice, no doubt. But nice enough to redo a build or spend extra power slots on?  Ehhhh.

[Bopper]

3 minutes ago, RogueWolf said:

I am confident I am not only speaking for myself when I read all this praise for being able to move SOOO much faster and I say... So? Do people really blow slots on travel to fly super fast with all of the tport options? The speed bump is nice, no doubt. But nice enough to redo a build or spend extra power slots on?  Ehhhh.

Based on the feedback, yes. Otherwise nobody would've been taking afterburner to begin with.

[Glacier Peak]

3 minutes ago, RogueWolf said:

I am confident I am not only speaking for myself when I read all this praise for being able to move SOOO much faster and I say... So? Do people really blow slots on travel to fly super fast with all of the tport options? The speed bump is nice, no doubt. But nice enough to redo a build or spend extra power slots on?  Ehhhh.

You can answer your own question (and share it with us) by going on to the Beta server and test it out. 

[Arbegla]

8 minutes ago, RogueWolf said:

I am confident I am not only speaking for myself when I read all this praise for being able to move SOOO much faster and I say... So? Do people really blow slots on travel to fly super fast with all of the tport options? The speed bump is nice, no doubt. But nice enough to redo a build or spend extra power slots on?  Ehhhh.

 

I'm currently running through a ton of lowbie old content H side, and lemme tell you, even with teleports, having to go from one side of IP to the other (as in, right to left, to right to left, so you can't take the tram to cut down on time) is a drag. So is Terra Volta, Perez Park, and even the Hollows (though the skyway entrance helps with that somewhat)

 

V and G side, the maps are small enough that it doesn't matter as much I guess, but H side, I can definitely feel the benefits.

[Sovera]

1 minute ago, Bopper said:

It's currently bugged, but I think there's evidence of lack in testing out the KB resistance provided by EM. The cap for KB resistance is 99% which would turn a 100 mag KB attack into a 1.0 mag KB attack. So having something like a 3 KB set bonus combined with EM currently gives you 300 mag protection. Of course, we don't know how this will change in the next patch, but my guess is it will be set to something like +60% improvement to your builds magnitude protection.

Looking a second time -KB going up to 8 is from an overlap. I don't think those count. But I'm going to check on a pylon.

 

Okay. It is good to re-re-test things. I don't know if there were changes or if it was a leftover from previous pylon DPS tests, but EM is no longer doing anything against pylon KBs compared to my first test. I could have sworn the 8 -KB was not an overlap and was solidly in place but this is not the case now as it keeps on bouncing between 4 and 8. The pylon is tossing me around so I don't see any extra protection.

 

I don't see what KB resistance is doing since resistance diminishes the distance we are thrown backwards, but since it is baked into a power enabling us to fly, and since when flying we are not thrown back but somersault in place...

[CaptainLupis]

Ok something odd with evasive maneuverson on test. When I log in on an alt that already has it toggled on it's not giving the speed boost to flying speed in the attribute monitor until it is toggled off and on again. Anyone else seeing this?

 

What I'm not sure of is whether it's not giving the buff or the monitor just isn't reporting it.

Edited March 17, 2021 by CaptainLupis

[Bopper]

4 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Looking a second time -KB going up to 8 is from an overlap. I don't think those count. But I'm going to check on a pylon.

 

Okay. It is good to re-re-test things. I don't know if there were changes or if it was a leftover from previous pylon DPS tests, but EM is no longer doing anything against pylon KBs compared to my first test. I could have sworn the 8 -KB was not an overlap and was solidly in place but this is not the case now as it keeps on bouncing between 4 and 8. The pylon is tossing me around so I don't see any extra protection.

 

I don't see what KB resistance is doing since resistance diminishes the distance we are thrown backwards, but since it is baked into a power enabling us to fly, and since when flying we are not thrown back but somersault in place...

The magnitude of KB determines the distance you would be knocked. KB resistance is resisting its magnitude, which can be reduced below your magnitude protection.

 

When using EM, you only get benefits if Flying. Were you testing with EM on while on the ground?

Edited March 17, 2021 by Bopper

[UltraAlt]

Checked out base power for flight and leaping.

Little weird needing to use the pop-up tray for the double leap, but it is pretty cool.

 

Can tell the change in speed for sure.

 

I always liked how we gradually increased in power, but can see how it is ease of use/travel.

I agree that the travel pools should be more powerful/faster than the P2W versions ... though I'll probably still stick with some P2W travel powers on some character (form changes for sure). 

I use the flight pack from parking for the Day Job in Firebase Zulu on several of my characters. (Related to this I would like to see the Raptor pack as a backpack option where the wings come out when in flight/hover mode)

 

Afterburner gets you a substantial way across a zone enough to make it worthwhile I think.

[Jimmy]

35 minutes ago, Sovera said:

I've been saying that EM has too high a costs for something that is meant to be on all the time. Bopper said EM's costs will be lower but he probably has insider knowledge. I did notice there have been some small patches without patch notes, but this is from the PTS.

It was only mentioned in passing on Discord, hasn't been patched just yet. The cost will be 0.26/s in the next update.

[CaptainLupis]

17 minutes ago, RogueWolf said:

I am confident I am not only speaking for myself when I read all this praise for being able to move SOOO much faster and I say... So? Do people really blow slots on travel to fly super fast with all of the tport options? The speed bump is nice, no doubt. But nice enough to redo a build or spend extra power slots on?  Ehhhh.

The teleport options don't take you to contacts, specific areas for defeat x missions, badge locations etc. Now as to whether the cost of a slot is worth it to improve that side of things for someone is a subjective matter.