I'm Not Here to Powerlevel You

[Zeraphia]

More of a rant here, but I just don't understand some of these people. Leader starts a Citadel TF, and it's at the regular difficulty, and without asking, they dial it all the way up to +4, making everyone except me uncomfortable, and the Task Force takes 2-3x longer than it should, and because no one else except me is really as fast/well-built on the team (by chance), I end up feeling like I have to carry the team which isn't a fun feeling on a PUG, just so the level 29 leader can gain some quick levels. 

 

I didn't expect speedrunning, but this is just frustrating to me, and this happens to occur quite a bit. I don't think a forum post will change that, but I'm just venting. 

 

Also, just because you have one player who is exceeding expectations for the group, doesn't mean the rest of the group is picking up the pace and you should bump the TF up without asking or consulting that player... Idk, it feels really disingenuous. I asked the leader to dial it back down, to which he said "no." This also was not advertised in the LFG that it would be +4/Kill most.

[Snarky]

3 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

More of a rant here, but I just don't understand some of these people. Leader starts a Citadel TF, and it's at the regular difficulty, and without asking, they dial it all the way up to +4, making everyone except me uncomfortable, and the Task Force takes 2-3x longer than it should, and because no one else except me is really as fast/well-built on the team (by chance), I end up feeling like I have to carry the team which isn't a fun feeling on a PUG, just so the level 29 leader can gain some quick levels. 

 

I didn't expect speedrunning, but this is just frustrating to me, and this happens to occur quite a bit. I don't think a forum post will change that, but I'm just venting. 

 

Also, just because you have one player who is exceeding expectations for the group, doesn't mean the rest of the group is picking up the pace and you should bump the TF up without asking or consulting that player... Idk, it feels really disingenuous. I asked the leader to dial it back down, to which he said "no." This also was not advertised in the LFG that it would be +4/Kill most.

I make the point it was not advertised as a plus.  If the leader (and or team) says "well, it is a plus"  Then consider me a minus.  Bye!

 

On the other hand, if I join an advertised +X I deal with it.  Hopefully the team runs smooth, usually 90% chance.  But since I joined a team running +X content that was what I got.

 

I personally do not like running pre 50 TF/SF at + because I am generally learning the build and it is not complete.  I am running the TF for experience (literally learning the build), merits, badges, and LASTLY experience to level.  If you did not market it clearly that is not my fault.  Or it is??? Either way I am out lolololol

[Apparition]

13 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

More of a rant here, but I just don't understand some of these people. Leader starts a Citadel TF, and it's at the regular difficulty, and without asking, they dial it all the way up to +4, making everyone except me uncomfortable, and the Task Force takes 2-3x longer than it should, and because no one else except me is really as fast/well-built on the team (by chance), I end up feeling like I have to carry the team which isn't a fun feeling on a PUG, just so the level 29 leader can gain some quick levels. 

 

I didn't expect speedrunning, but this is just frustrating to me, and this happens to occur quite a bit. I don't think a forum post will change that, but I'm just venting. 

 

Also, just because you have one player who is exceeding expectations for the group, doesn't mean the rest of the group is picking up the pace and you should bump the TF up without asking or consulting that player... Idk, it feels really disingenuous. I asked the leader to dial it back down, to which he said "no." This also was not advertised in the LFG that it would be +4/Kill most.

 

 

It's AE.  AE farming has made AE babies believe that doing everything at +4x8 with only one level 50 or one well equipped character on the team to carry them is possible and even desired.  It's why you see so many lowbies on zone MSRs who believe that they have no to minimal negative impact on the MSR, and why you see so many level 35 PCs trying to get on ITFs and insist that it be ran at +4x8 with only one level 50 character on the team, even if that character is a Controller.

 

Most of the newbies that Homecoming does get are introduced to the game by AE.  They see so many people offering free AE farm PLing, get sucked into it, and then are warped into thinking that that play is normal and expected for the whole game, both in and out of AE.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Apparition

[Saikochoro]

I usually ask what difficulty level the leader plans to run and if it is a speed, kill all, or somewhere in between before joining if their advertisement doesn’t answer those questions. 
 

If any of those answers change after I join the team or are different than what was advertised I ask the leader why the change and to change it back. If they don’t, I leave the team. No hard feelings.
 

I’m just not going to waste my time on something that isn’t running as advertised. If I join a kill most, I expect it to take longer and actually kill most. If I join a speed run I expect it to be speeding to objectives. If I join a +4 I expect it to be +4. If I join a +0 I expect it to be a +0.  I don’t think there is anything wrong leaving a team if they change agreed upon settings. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Saikochoro

[macskull]

11 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

Also, just because you have one player who is exceeding expectations for the group, doesn't mean the rest of the group is picking up the pace and you should bump the TF up without asking or consulting that player... Idk, it feels really disingenuous. I asked the leader to dial it back down, to which he said "no." This also was not advertised in the LFG that it would be +4/Kill most.

If the team leader is okay with unilaterally changing difficulty/parameters without talking to the team beforehand, I'm also okay with unilaterally leaving the team. After the leader refused to dial the difficulty back down I probably would've just said "okay, bye" and took off.

[Herotu]

20 minutes ago, Snarky said:

I personally do not like running pre 50 TF/SF at + because I am generally learning the build and it is not complete.

That's another topic entirely - builds are complete at every level because, well, Ouroboros/SKing.

I'm off-topic and I didn't mean to create an argument, I'm just suggesting that CoH levels are a really weird thing.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Herotu

[Doomrider]

13 minutes ago, macskull said:

If the team leader is okay with unilaterally changing difficulty/parameters without talking to the team beforehand, I'm also okay with unilaterally leaving the team. After the leader refused to dial the difficulty back down I probably would've just said "okay, bye" and took off.

QFT.

Unless I'm forming the team and recruiting, whereby I usually try to find a happy medium between everyone. Doing +4x8 just because isn't yielding any additional merits for completion, just takes longer for your reward. Maybe remind the leader of that point, perhaps they are unaware.

[QuiJon]

46 minutes ago, Zeraphia said:

More of a rant here, but I just don't understand some of these people. Leader starts a Citadel TF, and it's at the regular difficulty, and without asking, they dial it all the way up to +4, making everyone except me uncomfortable, and the Task Force takes 2-3x longer than it should, and because no one else except me is really as fast/well-built on the team (by chance), I end up feeling like I have to carry the team which isn't a fun feeling on a PUG, just so the level 29 leader can gain some quick levels. 

 

I didn't expect speedrunning, but this is just frustrating to me, and this happens to occur quite a bit. I don't think a forum post will change that, but I'm just venting. 

 

Also, just because you have one player who is exceeding expectations for the group, doesn't mean the rest of the group is picking up the pace and you should bump the TF up without asking or consulting that player... Idk, it feels really disingenuous. I asked the leader to dial it back down, to which he said "no." This also was not advertised in the LFG that it would be +4/Kill most.

Then simply start a big fight, agro everything you can drag it to the team and then quit the TF. Wait for a tell calling you a dick and giggle about it and move on your way. 

[ScarySai]

If I'm absolutely stomping a given Tf, I get it, but if it's just done without warning then I agree that it's a bit sketchy.

[Snarky]

28 minutes ago, Herotu said:

That's another topic entirely - builds are complete at every level because, well, Ouroboros/SKing.

I'm off-topic and I didn't mean to create an argument, I'm just suggesting that CoH levels are a really weird thing.

uh, if you think a level 25 levelling build looks anything like a level 50 build, that it is 'complete', or even comparable, I do not know what o say.  Except, mine sure arent

[Herotu]

15 minutes ago, Snarky said:

uh, if you think a level 25 levelling build looks anything like a level 50 build, that it is 'complete', or even comparable, I do not know what o say.  Except, mine sure arent

No, that's not my point - it's that your build, even though "incomplete", is right for content of any given level, see?  So it's really complete *for the content* from level 1.

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Herotu

[Snarky]

32 minutes ago, Herotu said:

No, that's not my point - it's that your build, even though "incomplete", is right for content of any given level, see?  So it's really complete *for the content* from level 1.

 

I was stating I do not like to increase the difficulty of a TF because I am learning the build, I want merits, badges, and lastly experience.  That to me the build is not complete.  Not increased difficulty,

 

Are you saying that the build is fine as is then, and therefor I should accept any difficulty even though that was not advertised nor is it what I want to do?

[Andreah]

I hate leaving stuff before the end, even if the leader isn't worth my time, the other people on it shouldn't suffer for it.

 

On the other hand, I've been on teams where most everyone left, and we restarted a team without the original leader.

 

But on a task force, you get invested after the first mission, and people don't want to leave, and the leader can use that in an abusive manner. At that point, you have to realize you all have power too. Don't be jerks about it, but let the leader know you're not happy, xp is both difficulty setting and kill speed, and if several of you are ready to bail, maybe that person will see reason If not, it's not going to get better -- drop. Don't make some long speech, just say this isn't what you signed up for and leave. One-star the leader, or whatever you do, and move onward.

[siolfir]

1 hour ago, Andreah said:

I hate leaving stuff before the end, even if the leader isn't worth my time, the other people on it shouldn't suffer for it.

 

On the other hand, I've been on teams where most everyone left, and we restarted a team without the original leader.

If the leader was just being a tool about it, this is what I would've just suggested to everyone in the team.

 

"Hey, I'm dropping. Anyone who wants to restart at (chosen difficulty) instead of slogging through this, you're welcome to join me."

 

The fact that you don't have to have a minimum number of people for TFs is great and makes this possible: even if nobody follows you can still start one and finish before the control freak.

[Techwright]

The idea of running it on max is a misconception that the setting equals maximum XP.  Missed hits, multiple deaths, and lower DPS all contribute to a LOWER XP/minute than running it at a far more comfortable +1 or +2.  And the risk of resignations might end the TF, especially when the guy with only 1.5 hours free realizes this is going to drag in far beyond his time budget.

 

[Andreah]

36 minutes ago, Techwright said:

The idea of running it on max is a misconception that the setting equals maximum XP.  Missed hits, multiple deaths, and lower DPS all contribute to a LOWER XP/minute than running it at a far more comfortable +1 or +2.  And the risk of resignations might end the TF, especially when the guy with only 1.5 hours free realizes this is going to drag in far beyond his time budget.

Exactly!

 

The best XP gain rate is from doing content at the highest difficulty your team can still defeat efficiently and quickly. Sometimes that's +4/x8 and sometimes it's not. Smart team leaders adjust for the team makeup and content challenge.

 

I was on a Tinpex once where the team leader surprised us with "enemies buffed" and "players debuffed" challenge settings. After the first horribly difficult and slow mission, after trying to get him to see reason, he refused to change it up, most, maybe all, of the team quit, and he tried to recruit more people, indignantly calling us names in LFG. This guy was intending to do the TF's with those settings, and wasn't saying so in his recruitment, so we made note of that. A few of us had reformed our own Tinpex and completed it, and he was still trying to recruit for his disasterpex.

 

If one intends to run on extra hard, no matter what, that's fine, but tell people in advance. There times when I would do it, but not always and without notice. If one wants maximum XP gain, then picking the right content and the right difficulty is vital.

[Dazl]

My level 50 grav/kinetic controller can carry most +4 teams due to the heavy support. It's kind of a power kick when I do it and people are smart enough to stay close enough to be healed and buffed. Your right though, leaders shouldn't use you as a crutch for the rest of the team.

[Veracor]

54 minutes ago, Andreah said:

I was on a Tinpex once where the team leader surprised us with "enemies buffed" and "players debuffed" challenge settings. After the first horribly difficult and slow mission, after trying to get him to see reason, he refused to change it up, most, maybe all, of the team quit, and he tried to recruit more people, indignantly calling us names in LFG. This guy was intending to do the TF's with those settings, and wasn't saying so in his recruitment, so we made note of that. A few of us had reformed our own Tinpex and completed it, and he was still trying to recruit for his disasterpex.

 

I have a feeling I know who you're talking about.  I wasn't online for it when it happened, but I did receive a bunch of warnings a while ago about someone doing exactly this.  Word tends to spread quickly when someone intentionally trolls like that.

 

And yeah, the team leader is supposed to be communicating the level/parameters of the task force.  If a team leader isn't doing that like the one OP described, it's best to use the Note system to rate their global low and then to just leave the team without further words.  With an actual team restarting the task force will take less time than finishing it out, even with the repeated missions.  Heck, you can even invite the people from the old team that didn't seem like they were leeching and see if they want to try it again on a difficulty that they can actually hit things on.  Many of them are players just trying to live their characters the conventional way and not using AE or something to powerlevel.

[cotesan]

When people start doing stupid things, stealthing and not teaming etc. im out. 

Edited March 20, 2021 by cotesan

[Herotu]

4 hours ago, Snarky said:

I was stating I do not like to increase the difficulty of a TF because I am learning the build, I want merits, badges, and lastly experience.  That to me the build is not complete.  Not increased difficulty,

I agree with that. Let me give you an example; I love Electric Melee, but it starts out pretty crappy and most of the time when I'm downscaling to do Ouro/SK/TF... omg SO MUCH lowbie content.. I have to endure the crappiness again and miss out of the wonders of Lightning Rod!  I guess Lightning Rod vs lower level content would be too powerful. So my powers are correct for that level of content. I'm being a bit of a pedant in saying that "Completeness" isn't really a thing.

 

4 hours ago, Snarky said:

Are you saying that the build is fine as is then, and therefor I should accept any difficulty even though that was not advertised nor is it what I want to do?

Were I in your shoes, and knowing that the leader was reliant on you and having had your request for lower difficulty turned down, I'd probably offer an ultimatum. 

[Andreah]

2 hours ago, Crimsonpyre said:

My level 50 grav/kinetic controller can carry most +4 teams due to the heavy support. It's kind of a power kick when I do it and people are smart enough to stay close enough to be healed and buffed. Your right though, leaders shouldn't use you as a crutch for the rest of the team.

One of the greatest joys I get in this game is when I can play one of my 50+3 support characters on a regular mission team with some lowbies on it. People helped me level when I was on a lowbie, and when it's my turn I love to pay it forward. And it will surely be my turn again in due course. 

[Andreah]

32 minutes ago, Herotu said:

Were I in your shoes, and knowing that the leader was reliant on you and having had your request for lower difficulty turned down, I'd probably offer an ultimatum. 

Sometimes you have to tell people things plainly, or they just won't get it.  "Look friend, this is not working for me. Turn it down or I'm going to drop and find a better team."

[TygerDarkstorm]

9 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

 

It's AE.  AE farming has made AE babies believe that doing everything at +4x8 with only one level 50 or one well equipped character on the team to carry them is possible and even desired.  It's why you see so many lowbies on zone MSRs who believe that they have no to minimal negative impact on the MSR, and why you see so many level 35 PCs trying to get on ITFs and insist that it be ran at +4x8 with only one level 50 character on the team, even if that character is a Controller.

 

Most of the newbies that Homecoming does get are introduced to the game by AE.  They see so many people offering free AE farm PLing, get sucked into it, and then are warped into thinking that that play is normal and expected for the whole game, both in and out of AE.

This must be at least somewhat server dependent regarding zone MSR's. On Everlasting they're typically hosted by Chaos United and are intentionally advertised as a means for lowbies to join to grind experience. We generally seem to end up with plenty of high level people to smash through the MSR regardless.

 

Don't get me wrong, I see where you're coming from. The MSR thing just threw me off, but I'll attribute that to differences between servers.

 

My limited, anecdotal experience also has not resulted in too many instances like the OP's, so I guess I have been lucky. Speed runs generally seem to get advertised as such, and since I don't like those, I don't sign up for them. Most of the TF's/SF's I run don't seem to go much past +2, and usually the lead asks if we're ok with that or the group as a whole asks to ramp it up a bit because we're just slamming through the content. And no, that's not me saying stuff like what has happened with the OP never happens; I am sure that it does. I guess I have just gotten lucky.

[Ghost]

I never ask if its a plus, nor do I care.

 

Only two things will make me immediately (and politely) leave 

1. If its a speed run - I enjoy playing the game, not wildly chasing after my teammates

2. If I'm invited to a team more than a couple levels above me.

 

 

When I organize a TF, I always start out at +1x8.  Just to see how it goes.

If the first mish is smooth, I usually ask if anyone wants it upped before the second mish.  Sometimes they do, but mostly I'm told "no" 

 

 

  

[Clave Dark 5]

Can't say I've ever seen this happen, but yeah, I'd be out the door pretty quickly.