Seed of Hamidon

[Techwright]

Just curious...as one who has never done a Seed of Hamidon Raid, why is it that I so rarely see a LFG channel recruitment for this? Is it broken? Boring? Forgotten? Has it too many prerequisites? Other?

[The_Warpact]

24 minutes ago, Techwright said:

Just curious...as one who has never done a Seed of Hamidon Raid, why is it that I so rarely see a LFG channel recruitment for this? Is it broken? Boring? Forgotten? Has it too many prerequisites? Other?

More than likely forgotten and the rewards are lame, 5 merits and a badge or 2 badges if you defeat one of each kind of seedling.

You have to kill the seedlings in sort of a specific order to really beat down on the seed, and once that's accomplished it dies pretty quickly.

Its like a big build up and then blah....

 

 

[Apparition]

Yeah.  The rewards aren’t considered worth it.

[TemporalVileTerror]

See, I figured it was the fact that it was a flying Giant Monster, and there are a number of Powers which only work while on the ground that simply have no value in the event.  ie:  Too much of a pain in the ass.

[Darmian]

Well, I see a few every now and then, And since I play a lot of dedicated Golds it's the only real zone event GM you can get, so there's that.

[Sovera]

I did it once. It died in 2 minutes total and five merits, meh. Seen it advertised but what's the point? People don't do Hami every day because it's challenging but because we come out of it with 120 merits for half hour.

[TheZag]

I run it occasionally on torchbearer but even for me its been awhile.  I really should start doing the giant monster tour again.  But the reason i stopped is because others started killing the GMs regularly without me needing to make a group

Edited April 12, 2021 by TheZag

[The_Warpact]

58 minutes ago, TemporalVileTerror said:

See, I figured it was the fact that it was a flying Giant Monster, and there are a number of Powers which only work while on the ground that simply have no value in the event.  ie:  Too much of a pain in the ass.

Like the Arachnos Flier in Gville? Just a badge on that one. 

You can get it in the Ms. Liberty TF because its in the way to kill Recluse. But, other than that? Nope mucho grande pain in the nethers.

[TemporalVileTerror]

The Flier lands, at least.

More like the Rikti Warships.  I rarely see folks tackle those either.

[Veracor]

I've run it a few times as part of my worldwide monster hunt events, but the Seed dies way too quickly for it to be worthwhile for making a group for.  The Seedling mechanic was an idea, but in practice only the defense and regen seedlings need to be killed.

 

I was able to solo it as a Tanker using no inspirations or temps which is pretty sad.  Seed of Hamidon should've been more on level with Avatar of Hamidon.

[Techwright]

1 hour ago, Darmian said:

Well, I see a few every now and then,

 

Right.  I wasn't suggesting it's never done, just that it's rare that I see a request for a team.

 

It sounds like, from all the comments, that this is an event in desperate need of an overhaul, but mainly in 3 ways:

1. Increase the rewards to be more in line with taking on a monster of that scale.

2. Increase the difficulty of the opponent(s) to be more in line with taking on a monster of that scale.

3. (Possibly) Find a way to interact more with ground units.  (That is, unless the challenge is to adapt to circumstances.)

 

Does that sound about right?  What would you consider a reasonable resolution to each?  50% of Hamidon's rewards with 50% of the damage?  Does the Seed give a Hami-O for finishing?  If not, what about a 50% chance for one on top of the other rewards?  (Basically set everything to half of the full Hamidon.) 

[TemporalVileTerror]

I almost wonder if this might be an opportunity for an asynchronous form of PvP . . . 

 

Allow players (particularly Villains, but technically anyone) to opt to MATURE the Seed of Hamidon!

Make it challenging; as challenging as or more challenging than taking down the Seed as it stands right now.  Have the opposition come in the form of teams of united First Ward Factions (after all, if ANYTHING could cause all of those myriad groups to stop killing one another, it would be to put a halt to a bunch of psychotic ne'er-do-wells bent on strengthening Hamidon's control of the region).

 

If the team can manage to pull of their task (probably something along the lines of aligning some Devouring Earth Growth Hormone Dispensers on the rooftops of the various towers in the Zone), then the Seed of Hamidon lands and enters a chrysalis.  The Villains* also get themselves some Merits (5?) for a job evilly done.

 

Players can then attack the Chrysalis to try and gain a slightly bigger Merit reward bonus, as the Chrysalis starts to spawn Devoured and Swarms to protect itself.

 

If the Chrysalis hatches, then the Zone is treated to a VERY powerful Avatar of Hamidon, and the aforementioned chance for a Hami-O is awarded, or something equivalent in value.

 

 

More ways for players to meaningfully interact with the game world is ALWAYS a positive.

[TemporalVileTerror]

And since I realize I wasn't explicitly clear about this:
DO NOT TURN FIRST WARD IN TO A PVP ZONE!

 

I used the term "PvP" only in the context that players could potentially be working against one another in the context of some of them seeking to destroy the Seed as a Seed, while others strive to get the Chrysalis, and others still try to get the full Avatar.

Creates some tension within the context of the game's narrative conceit, but isn't so grievous as to make it true PvP.

And to ensure that things don't completely get out of hand with potential griefing, make it so the rooftop Hormone Dispensers are only available during the veil of night, or something, so there's a distinctly "safe time" to go for the Seed without interference.

[GM Impervium]

So, turn every zone in the game EXCEPT FW into a PvP zone? You got it! All we gotta do is flip a switch and it's done! Great idea, TVT!

On a serious note, I can see why some may find SoH is kinda... boring. He's just a bag of HP that flies in circles.

PERSONAL OPINION: The Seed should be able to extract himself from his flight path (probably a technical impossibility), and directly target and move towards and away from characters like a normal NPC. Have him dive into the water, then fly back out and ambush someone; have him be able to just eat a character no matter how high their HP is (don't stand directly in front of him!); stuff like that. Make him a THREAT!

Raise the challenge, raise the rewards (which I think are so low because he spawns every hour regardless; unlike Primal Hami, where you need a full league of characters to kill dozens of Giant Monsters to get him to come out and play). But yes, I too would like to see players go after him more often 😃

[Darmian]

Ah,,,once you start attacking him actual Avatars start spawning?

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, TemporalVileTerror said:

The Flier lands, at least.

More like the Rikti Warships.  I rarely see folks tackle those either.

 

Are you talking about during Rikti invasions or on MSRs? Everlasting's MSRs tackle them constantly. There's beer on them thar ships...

 

 

[Darmian]

It's the fact that the Rikti ships never come below a certain altitude whereas the fliers do sometimes.  Or that's how I'm reading that.

[Gulbasaur]

12 hours ago, Techwright said:

Just curious...as one who has never done a Seed of Hamidon Raid, why is it that I so rarely see a LFG channel recruitment for this? Is it broken? Boring? Forgotten? Has it too many prerequisites? Other?

I have run it a few times and filled up a team from the LFG easily. I'd barely even call it a raid, it's just a giant monster with extra steps. A team of eight can take it down without flinching.

 

My advice: stick it in the LFG. People will come to get the badge if nothing else as it's a slightly rare one.

[Snarky]

1) it is complicated

 

2) the rewards are not great

 

3) it is not in a popular zone

 

4) 1&2 combine to make it even tougher.  Since no one does it no one knows it so no one does it because no one knows it.

[Rejolt]

I'd love a Seed of Hamidon to be hovering around the Abyss or Hive, and give 6 RM for defeating as the first step of raids. Free group flight would be neat for those things. 

 

But, yes, there needs to be a slightly better reason for going to First Ward to fight it. Maybe Adamastor's rewards (10 RM/5 Threads) and making the group flight power (Buoyancy) get an extra 30 minutes so it's ready for Hamidon raids.

[Zhym]

On 4/13/2021 at 9:48 AM, Rejolt said:

But, yes, there needs to be a slightly better reason for going to First Ward to fight it. Maybe Adamastor's rewards (10 RM/5 Threads) and making the group flight power (Buoyancy) get an extra 30 minutes so it's ready for Hamidon raids.

I really like this idea.  It could turn the Seed into a Hami warm-up.  The only tricky part is that the Hive typically starts filling up well before a Hami raid, so if you zone out of the Hive to do the Seed you might not be able to get back in.

 

The simple solution is probably just to up the rewards.  Adamastor gives 10 reward merits and 5 incarnate threads and gets summoned pretty much every hour to be burned down quickly. (Imagine what it must be like to be Adamastor—there you are, hanging out wherever it is you hang out when you're a giant monster, but every hour or so a bunch of people pull you out of whatever you were doing just to beat you up.  Must get old.)  So "it's over too quickly" isn't the problem.  And First Ward being kind of out of the way can't be the problem either, since Adamastor isn't exactly easy to get to either now that the only way to Echo:DA is through Ouroboros.  So I think it's just that the Seed of Hamidon is slightly more complex and longer to do than GMs that give better rewards.  It's a little too involved and has too low of a reward to attract people looking for some quick merits, but it's not hard enough for people who want a challenge. 

 

I probably wouldn't go up to Adamastor-level rewards (those are too high for the effort involved, IMO), but bumping it to 8 merits might draw a little more interest.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Zhym

[Heraclea]

Torchbearer has occasional, ad-hoc giant monster tours that take it down as an afterthought, and as a result I'd say most of my major characters have the badge.   But this one requires a bit more coordination than some of the others, getting started requires some kind of flight power, and it's in an out of the way zone that traditional content probably won't send you to, so it's even less likely to be happened upon than, say, Lusca.  Lusca often gets noticed if you are running Manticore, Citadel, or Penny Yin; not this one. 

 

I do think that the rewards should be raised on the GMs that require something more than bumbling onto them and seeing them. like Lusca, Caleb, and the Seed.  Right now the most rewarding GM seems to be Adamastor, who does need to be summoned deliberately, but apart from that doesn't need all that much coordination. 

 

I do rather miss taking down three Paladins as a lagniappe when running Manticore and doing the Kings Row mission.   Most days there would be three of them, gathered in a specific place alongside the ramp. 

[Lazarillo]

57 minutes ago, Zhym said:

I probably wouldn't go up to Adamastor-level rewards (those are too high for the effort involved, IMO),

I mean, given how little effort Adamastor involves...

[Zhym]

The "standard" reward for a GM seems to be 6 merits.  I may be misremembering, but that seems to be the reward for Lusca, Eochai, Jack in Irons, Jurassik, Babbage, Kraken, Caleb, Ghost of Scrapyard, the Goliath War Walker in Boomtown, etc.  Most of those either appear occasionally and unpredictably or require some effort to spawn and/or kill.  It's weird that Adamastor is both the easiest GM to spawn and gives the highest reward by quite a bit. 

 

I'm not one to argue for nerfs, but there's a pretty good case to be made that Adamastor should give fewer merit rewards than any other GM.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Zhym

[Greycat]

2 hours ago, Zhym said:

The "standard" reward for a GM seems to be 6 merits.  I may be misremembering, but that seems to be the reward for Lusca, Eochai, Jack in Irons, Jurassik, Babbage, Kraken, Caleb, Ghost of Scrapyard, the Goliath War Walker in Boomtown, etc.  Most of those either appear occasionally and unpredictably or require some effort to spawn and/or kill.  It's weird that Adamastor is both the easiest GM to spawn and gives the highest reward by quite a bit. 

 

I'm not one to argue for nerfs, but there's a pretty good case to be made that Adamastor should give fewer merit rewards than any other GM.

 

I wouldn't argue that Adamastor needs to be nerfed below other GMs - but if anything, Lusca has you fighting multiple "GMs" in each of the tentacles. Takes longer - so I could see an argument for *that* going up.