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SR a trap?


Mezegis
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Hello Tankers!

 

Was looking around and notice an extreme lack of SR conversations.  There was only a few build reviews in the past 18 months, and its never really brought up in set discussions.  Is SR on tankers bad?  Does it lack things that make other sets the go to option?  It most closely resembles Shield, and shield has an AoE, damage buff, and more stock resistances, while SR gets recharge, speed, and more debuff resistances to some things.  Is the lack of any taunt aura a killer for the dive in an AoE style?

 

How would we go about making the set better if it needs some adjustments?

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SR is great! The only issue you may run into is that you will want to take everything but Elude.

 

There is a taunt aura in evasion:

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=tanker_defense.super_reflexes.evasion&at=tanker

 

There are scaling resists that are built into Agile, Dodge, and Lucky

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=tanker_defense.super_reflexes.agile&at=tanker

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=tanker_defense.super_reflexes.dodge&at=tanker

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=tanker_defense.super_reflexes.lucky&at=tanker

 

The defense debuff resistance (DDR) is maxed out at lvl 50 if you take all of the powers that provide DDR.

 

I have used my Super Reflexes Tankers to pull groups of lvl 54 Rikti in the instanced Rikti Mothership Raid, and they work very well.

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The tanker ATO procs go a long way toward fixing the supposed "holes" in SR by adding Resist and Absorb.

Between those and the minimal slotting needed to hit incarnate softcaps, it's a flexible tank primary.

Evasion has a Taunt component for Brute/Tanker.

There is probably an updated guide, but read this one at least.

 

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My two SR tanks basically took this approach:

 

Your defenses are capped and your DDR is capped. Resistances/HP/regen are how you’re going to get invincible. Scaling resistances will give you 60% res (do I have that right?) at 0% HP, but you want to cap your resistances sooner than that. What you want to build for, IMO, is enough resistance that you cap at 90% around, say, 20% HP. And then on top of that, I try to work in the +regen procs among other things. Basically if you get your capped resistances early enough (not at like 5% HP), you ought to be basically invincible outside of the psi res hole. My SR tanker can probably AFK-survive a wider variety of situations than most of my other tankers.

Edited by arcane
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36 minutes ago, Generator said:

 

It's got a taunt aura, I want to say it's in Evasion?  But it's got one.  I have an SR/Claws Tanker, and she's a blast.

I'd be curious on your build... this was the set I was looking at, but since I have Eviscerate animation, was thinking about cycling FU/Fo/Slash for a single target chain, and spin on like a 4 second CD.  

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32 minutes ago, arcane said:

My two SR tanks basically took this approach:

 

Your defenses are capped and your DDR is capped. Resistances/HP/regen are how you’re going to get invincible. Scaling resistances will give you 60% res (do I have that right?) at 0% HP, but you want to cap your resistances sooner than that. What you want to build for, IMO, is enough resistance that you cap at 90% around, say, 20% HP. And then on top of that, I try to work in the +regen procs among other things. Basically if you get your capped resistances early enough (not at like 5% HP), you ought to be basically invincible outside of the psi res hole. My SR tanker can probably AFK-survive a wider variety of situations than most of my other tankers.

Yes, 60% resistance the moment before your death. It kicks in at 60% hit points, then it's 1 for 1 the rest of the way down. 40% hit points = 20% resistance, for instance. I'd do the same - for max survivability, get just above the incarnate soft cap for defense, then build for resistance, HP, and regen.

 

To the OP, SR is great, particularly while leveling, but also with top end builds. I don't think the set needs adjustments.

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25 minutes ago, Mezegis said:

I'd be curious on your build... this was the set I was looking at, but since I have Eviscerate animation, was thinking about cycling FU/Fo/Slash for a single target chain, and spin on like a 4 second CD.  

 

I'm in the office for work today, away from my game PC.  If I haven't replied to this thread with a build by tomorrow, send me a reminder and I'll try and get it out to you ASAP.

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19 minutes ago, Werner said:

Yes, 60% resistance the moment before your death. It kicks in at 60% hit points, then it's 1 for 1 the rest of the way down. 40% hit points = 20% resistance, for instance. I'd do the same - for max survivability, get just above the incarnate soft cap for defense, then build for resistance, HP, and regen.

 

To the OP, SR is great, particularly while leveling, but also with top end builds. I don't think the set needs adjustments.

My favorite part of SR is that it’s the least enhancement slot heavy set in the game. You can 3 slot the toggles, 1 slot the autos, and you’re done with your primary after a whopping 6 extra slots invested. My SR/BS was so wide open that I 5 slotted both Brawl AND Boxing with purples just as set mules. That’s unprecedented based on any other character I have. And I have lots!

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I probably rate SR as the best Defense based armor, but also the most difficult to drive, when built my way with additional resists to supplement defense, and then subjected to 801.A (difficulty 10 of 15) or higher.

In more normal difficulty situations, nothing short of the more cheaty encounters should really trouble you at all.

 

For ease of use I recommend Inv/.

For a little more durability, as well as easier Psi-tanking, and intermediate difficulty to drive I'd recommend SD/

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AE 801 (link) is a variety of missions for fun and challenge, and is designed for a team of 5+ Incarnates.  Just search '801' in AE. 

801 Difficulty Varies: 801.0 Easy, ..., 801.2 Standard, ..., 801.5 Hard, ..., 801.8 Extreme, ..., 801.A Epic, ... 801.F Death.

Angel Hornet (link)   -   Solo 2-Star ASF (link)   -   Solo 2-Star ITF (link)

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A lot of players quit on SR before it gets good. Just a late bloomer.

 

One of my fav sets as noted you don't need every power at 6 slots but you do need about every power.

My DM/SR brute rocks!

"What are dominators... Much like a spider traps a bug, wraps it up, then starts chewing on it when it's completely unable to escape or defend itself."

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It doesn't buff damage (I don't consider 20% recharge as buffing damage), doesn't have a heal nor endurance. The game being what it is a heal and endurance are needed. Much later it can ignore most problems as long as those problems don't auto hit. There are some things who will do this but not enough to be considered a problem (until doing whole arcs or TFs with Ruularu or just fighting Hami).

 

The problem is that it requires nearly all powers and without resistances and without a consolidated defense SR has nothing so someone trying it starts squishy (as 20-25% defense is good in spreadsheet terms but does not stop someone getting killed), has no heal to make up for this, runs out of endurance. If they are a tank and build in a very specific manner they can be near impervious (40% defense) by level 24-26, but anything else will not.

 

Also take how both +3% defense uniques come into play to help reaching non squishy levels but are tied to having Tough which invariably gets pushed to level 30+ (unless taking Rune of Protection early by going Sorcery for a travel power).

 

So overall it's like Neme just said. It has a rocky start and needs lots of love despite the 'but it's so easy to get good numbers on it'. It gets those good numbers when all powers are taken and then slotted, but someone leveling/exemplaring won't feel it.

 

My own experience differs from SR lovers like Bill perhaps because of my lack of experience with the builds, but with me a SR character crumpled when stress tested where they talk about going into +4x8 with 'enemies buffed' and the enemies unable to hurt them even if going AFK. But where I rarely touched SR Bill and others make SR their lifestyle so definitely listen to the ones who have the experience backing up their opinion.

 

 

Now, if you want to talk Fire Armor then come along with me 😄

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16 hours ago, Sovera said:

The game being what it is a heal and endurance are needed.

 

That's why I buff HP and Regen along with DamRes.

 

16 hours ago, Sovera said:

Bill and others make SR their lifestyle

 

<.<

>.>

 

Shield is a superior set in the end. Shield Charge + more HP and more DamRes with *enough* DDR after doublestacking Active Defense make it so.

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SR is a trap in that it's incredibly good on Tankers. Bigger HP pool + scaling RES + Tanker ATOs being about RES all scale beautifully.

It's good as soon as early game, too. I feel too many players are trapped in old habits from back when SR was only a Scrapper set.

 

Consider this level 12 build:

 

Spoiler

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
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		|78DAAD914D4BC3401086374D624C1341508A877A55F41014053F41C4562F0D94DA7|
		|B58E2342EC6242411E2D13FD47FE6C73F8893EC50247B7560F7659E79677799F5AB|
		|91BB7CF8B8619A7B17F3A208E63C7981DCF4792442D684856B57D260040B480AF01|
		|EDF32CC66B088A1826248551F62006FC69F042F459AC89CB9D3348DBD09F04C24D1|
		|769B8C2B6C17AF9094AD71A385F7227A2ED1E2C82C6ED2AD712642EF360F4B11063|
		|E2F4AC8DF77F03D7BB8CE06B869CD0BEB1E33500C9DF53ABADC6714B51464E7D8A7|
		|519F463EA3A317E8D1C9A3135BEBE8257A4C3ADBB424BB4266519F45BEF58E0ED06|
		|B93C726D6EFE8359EE3480F7388D5FF1C43E3CF6C1AC00E8CD544EB43A57AA49063|
		|859C28E4542113854C0DBA1689D6127B13E72F493DC7AA4D55BBAD7EF6573F48FE6|
		|F857C29E44721BFC3A4E441|
		|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

 

44.46% melee and ranged defense, 26.1% AoE defense. Think Skulls or Trolls stand a chance against this? Spoiler alert: they don't. You can solo +0/x8 with ease starting from the teens as a SR Tanker, using unslotted attacks and P2W powers (just remember to slot up on Recovery Serums as well).

 

(Also, word of advice... Don't actually slot CJ, even while leveling. You don't even need to pick the power. Instead, get yourself 8 hours of P2W Amplifiers at level 1. It costs 24k influence at that level, and it boosts your ~40%ish defenses to 45%+. By the time your Amplifiers run out, you'll likely have at least Tough for the +3def uniques, and/or CJ, and/or Weave)

 

At high level, SR can be built to reach 90% S/L res when lightly damaged on top of 59% def and capped DDR. That's near invincibility against the most common damage type of the game. Stack a heal on top of that, manage your endurance somehow, and you're golden.

Edited by nihilii
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I made an SR Tanker because someone claimed that a Tanker relying on chance to not get hit versus the certainty of damage resistance was a bad thing. To take the idea all the way I made him an SR/TW Tanker. 

 

He ran perfectly fine up to 50. Not done much with him since but I probably should consider progressing him some.

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SR/MA

With Storm Kick I am softcapped at Posis levels and i IO for +dmg.  Weave just holds my def set procs

Red Fortune

Mako's Bite>Touch of Death

Obliteration

 

resists just accidentally happen.  feels nice running around with like 30% extra damage

 

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5 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

I made an SR Tanker because someone claimed that a Tanker relying on chance to not get hit versus the certainty of damage resistance was a bad thing.

I'm glad you were intrigued rather than discouraged. Relying on not being hit would be a bad thing if that was all an SR Tanker relied on, but it isn't. The argument would probably be that given equal levels of on-paper damage mitigation (45% defense 0% resistance vs. 90% resistance 0% defense, say), the defense-based character is more vulnerable to random damage spikes and so will die more often. There's some truth to that, but more so in theory than in practice, particularly on a Tanker. A well-built SR Tanker is going to have lots of hit points, decent resists even before the scaling resistance kicks in, and impressive resists after it kicks in. It's not easy for the RNG to damage spike them to death, even if they're arguably more vulnerable to it. In practice, they can be solid enough that it isn't generally a concern.

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WOW now im thinking of SR tank. Never played SR not even when the game was "live"

 

Now to figure out what pairs well with it...

 

and a build...

 

HEY! Does anyone have a spare brain?

 

Just wondering

 

Why yes I do know what a search feature is. However with the 1000 returns it is hard to dig through all that. So I ask in posts.

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I've done Dark Melee with Super Reflexes a couple times, though not as a Tanker. The idea there is to put a heal in your attack chain since SR doesn't have a heal. But the last time I dusted off my DM/SR Brute, I was very disappointed in his kill speed compared to my SD/MA Tanker. I thought maybe a SR/Staff Tanker might work well since Staff can add to your resistance. Testing on beta showed that yes, it could be very survivable, but the damage output, at least with my survival-oriented build, was pretty pathetic. Maybe not an issue for a team tank, but I mostly solo. I loved leveling my Street Justice/SR Brute, but was underwhelmed after finishing the build, and eventually stripped her for parts. So I guess I can't really recommend anything that I've personally tried, though of course others may have had difference experiences with those combinations.

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On 9/8/2021 at 4:51 PM, Nemeroff said:

A lot of players quit on SR before it gets good. Just a late bloomer.

 

One of my fav sets as noted you don't need every power at 6 slots but you do need about every power.

My DM/SR brute rocks!

 

It only blooms late on Scrappers 

 

On tankers its the earliest blooming Primary. 

 

On Brutes its a mid bloomer - but thrives with some minor IO investment early. 

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20 minutes ago, I-Dirty said:

WOW now im thinking of SR tank. Never played SR not even when the game was "live"

 

Now to figure out what pairs well with it...

 

and a build...

 

HEY! Does anyone have a spare brain?

 

Just wondering

 

 

 

Get the two +3% DEF ios slotted as early as you can, since you want tough anyway for SR tankers, put them there .. after that you barely need any slots to make SR work on Tankers 

Edited by Haijinx
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2 hours ago, Werner said:

I've done Dark Melee with Super Reflexes a couple times, though not as a Tanker. The idea there is to put a heal in your attack chain since SR doesn't have a heal. But the last time I dusted off my DM/SR Brute, I was very disappointed in his kill speed compared to my SD/MA Tanker. I thought maybe a SR/Staff Tanker might work well since Staff can add to your resistance. Testing on beta showed that yes, it could be very survivable, but the damage output, at least with my survival-oriented build, was pretty pathetic. Maybe not an issue for a team tank, but I mostly solo. I loved leveling my Street Justice/SR Brute, but was underwhelmed after finishing the build, and eventually stripped her for parts. So I guess I can't really recommend anything that I've personally tried, though of course others may have had difference experiences with those combinations.

Both of my SR tankers are proc monsters with Vigor Alpha. Since SR needs less slotting investment than any other primary to get invincible, lots of room to tack on procs for offense. Many attacks with 4-6 procs. So both have wound up feeling pretty good on damage. My Ice/Staff’s damage is definitely worse, yeah.

 

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The problems I experience with SR:

  • It has no resist powers. While it does have the scaling resist, the real issue is that it doesn't have powers to slot resist sets. Every unique resist IO has to be packed into Toughness and you can't use non-unique resist set IOs (such as for bolstering Psi resist).
  • When it fails, it fails hard. All sets have a 'hole'. But most of the time, that 'hole' just means not being hard-capped/soft-capped against that particular attack. With SR, the 'hole' is extremely narrow (non-positional attacks) but SR is completely defenseless against them. So instead of struggling against certain enemies, it simply faceplants against them.
  • No endurance management/protection. Not having endurance management is a nuisance. Not having any endurance protection means that 5% of the time, the sapper effectively kills you by knocking down all of your toggle.

SR on a Tanker is also a bit over-the-top. While you've got completely unassailable positional defenses, you'd be in essentially the same place on most other AT. Certainly, they're not quite as tough (lower health, smaller scaling resists), but you're not really gaining much advantage as a Tanker so you might as well just be a Brute/Scrapper/Stalker/Sentinel.

 

 

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