Whip Set

[Perma-Newbie]

I'm sure this has been suggested a million times...

 

But we need a "whip" set, a fully fleshed out version of the demon MM whip powers.

[Greycat]

Yep, asked for before. I seem to recall the original devs saying it was a lot of work just for the three attacks in the MM set, and with the tools available to the team, it's probably nothing close to "near term" likely. But if that could be overcome, I'd be for seeing what they could do with it, sure.

[starro]

Is the Cool Whip power set still an option?

 

….asking for a friend.

[JasperStone]

4 hours ago, starro said:

Is the Cool Whip power set still an option?

 

….asking for a friend.

is that an Ice Master Mind?

[Mezmera]

28 minutes ago, JasperStone said:

is that an Ice Master Mind?

 

Most often you pair Cool Whip with Pumpkin Pie.  Pumpkin's are plant based, obviously it's from Plant Control...  😜

[GraspingVileTerror]

Not to completely hijack your thread, @MadCow99, but given that a dedicated Whip Set is already one of the most often requested concepts for a new Power Set, I'd like to propose a question to everyone:

 

How long would you be willing to wait for someone to create new Whip animations before just accepting that we have 4 functional animations already, and with some creativity, those can be stretched to make a whole Set?  

(For example, please see @Steampunkette's proposal, or my own:  https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/27171-whip-melee-because-whips-are-cool/ )

 

We've already waited 11 years.  Isn't that long enough?  

Obviously this won't pop out in the next Page's update that's hitting Open Beta (presuming no disasters) tomorrow, and there's an extensive list of other Sets that should also already have been made . . . but we've got enough resources to make this happen right now, even without making new animations (let alone animations which Legacy Devs explained were PARTICULARLY challenging to get right).

[golstat2003]

If they are going to do it I hope they do it right. I’d be willing to wait as long as it takes, for Homecoming to do it right.

 

I’ve seen what the other servers attempted and I was very VERY disappointed.

[plainguy]

• Whips..
• Gun and Whip
• Knife and Whip
• Gun, Knife and Whip.. 

Any combo with another power.. 

We have some gun and knife animations from various NPCs. 

 

But I followed the link as well from Vile.. 

 

I also understand Homecoming is very critical to make anything they put out professional quality.
Again my conspiracy is NCSoft wants to see what they can do. Maintain the game at a free cost, pump out some professional work across the board in various game content and we might toss you a bone.
Thus the importance to make this ultra polished. 
Which I totally get.
I wish they could hire someone to do the work and just tack that on or make it a separate bill for those willing to pay fund the work.  Just doesn't get done until the bill is paid. 

   

[Alchemystic]

16 hours ago, GraspingVileTerror said:

Not to completely hijack your thread, @MadCow99, but given that a dedicated Whip Set is already one of the most often requested concepts for a new Power Set, I'd like to propose a question to everyone:

 

How long would you be willing to wait for someone to create new Whip animations before just accepting that we have 4 functional animations already, and with some creativity, those can be stretched to make a whole Set?  

(For example, please see @Steampunkette's proposal, or my own:  https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/27171-whip-melee-because-whips-are-cool/ )

 

We've already waited 11 years.  Isn't that long enough?  

Obviously this won't pop out in the next Page's update that's hitting Open Beta (presuming no disasters) tomorrow, and there's an extensive list of other Sets that should also already have been made . . . but we've got enough resources to make this happen right now, even without making new animations (let alone animations which Legacy Devs explained were PARTICULARLY challenging to get right).

 

We have 4 existing animations, as well as space for both a Build Up and a Taunt/Placate, so that fills in 6 of our 9 powers. So realistically we only need 3 'new' attack animations to fill in the rest, one of which would likely be an AoE.

 

We know that the whip itself isn't an object, it's purely FX based much like Spines/Thorns, so that kinda limits us in terms of adding completely new powers. But, if the whip FX can be applied to other player animations, like those from weapon powersets, we might have something to work with.

 

Only problem is finding which animations can support the FX without it looking too messy.

 

[Itikar]

I would frankly settle even for something like the fire/ice swords, which appear only in some of the powers of the poweresets that have them, and integrate them with other attack animations.

 

Call it something like Hellfire Melee/Manipulation/Assault or something similar depending on AT. Just place those whips somewhere else other than the Mastermind set.

[biostem]

You could "cheat" another attack by using only the portion of the crack whip animation AFTER your character spins around.  You could also truncate the "Hell on Earth" animation to exclude the extended "hold and pull" part of the animation, to get another animation out of it.  Further, you could take *just* the spinning part of crack whip and use that for a PBAoE power.

[GraspingVileTerror]

Lots of creative solutions!  Great to hear!

[TheZag]

Ill also need a nae nae and a stanky leg to go with my whip.

[krj12]

I could see a combination of whip and some melee set powers ( from Street Justice, Martial Arts,  Savage, or some combo )  

.... it would feel very "Indiana Jones".  Call it the Tomb Raider power set. :)

Edited November 6, 2021 by krj12

[Greycat]

On 11/5/2021 at 12:12 PM, Tyrannical said:

 

We have 4 existing animations, as well as space for both a Build Up and a Taunt/Placate, so that fills in 6 of our 9 powers. So realistically we only need 3 'new' attack animations to fill in the rest, one of which would likely be an AoE.

 

We know that the whip itself isn't an object, it's purely FX based much like Spines/Thorns, so that kinda limits us in terms of adding completely new powers. But, if the whip FX can be applied to other player animations, like those from weapon powersets, we might have something to work with.

 

Only problem is finding which animations can support the FX without it looking too messy.

 

 

How much would this *also* limit us in customization? There aren't other whips to draw visuals from, and even recoloring - which might work for some ("I want a fire whip" - ok, some red and orange, etc.) won't work for someone who wants a non-FX, regular rope/leather whip, or chain or barbed wire or some other material. I think that would be the biggest demand of a whip set, actually.

 

Animation and effects aside, I kind of agree with krj12's comment - it might be "easiest" to have it show up in a dom Assault set first.

[GraspingVileTerror]

I was giving that some thought, and while barbed wire and chain might be too tricky, from what I've seen of the assets for the Whip Effects, adjusting transparencies and textures might be enough to make a simple leather or cloth whip.

[Alchemystic]

1 hour ago, Greycat said:

 

How much would this *also* limit us in customization? There aren't other whips to draw visuals from, and even recoloring - which might work for some ("I want a fire whip" - ok, some red and orange, etc.) won't work for someone who wants a non-FX, regular rope/leather whip, or chain or barbed wire or some other material. I think that would be the biggest demand of a whip set, actually.

 

Animation and effects aside, I kind of agree with krj12's comment - it might be "easiest" to have it show up in a dom Assault set first.

 

Chances are it may be possible to remove the flames from the whip, maybe even make the whip itself opaque instead of translucent, but it will always have the same 'shape' so to speak.

 

That's because the whip is the FX, which makes it especially hard to work with. I think that mostly falls down to the code being unable to support weapons with their own set of animations for different powers, so they opted to make the whip into an FX asset to workaround that. Since that's the case, it wont be possible to add new 'models' to the whip like we can with weapons and shields, nor can we really change the way the whip moves.

 

The most we can hope for is being able to re-use the whip FX with different player animations so it looks a little different, but since the whip powers had animations designed specifically to go with the FX, even that may be difficult.

[Mezmera]

On 11/5/2021 at 10:12 AM, Tyrannical said:

 

We have 4 existing animations, as well as space for both a Build Up and a Taunt/Placate, so that fills in 6 of our 9 powers. So realistically we only need 3 'new' attack animations to fill in the rest, one of which would likely be an AoE.

 

We know that the whip itself isn't an object, it's purely FX based much like Spines/Thorns, so that kinda limits us in terms of adding completely new powers. But, if the whip FX can be applied to other player animations, like those from weapon powersets, we might have something to work with.

 

Only problem is finding which animations can support the FX without it looking too messy.

 

 

Hold up!  A build up type power okay but a taunt/placate power?  Is there some suggestion that dirty meleers should be getting this before Dominators?!  

 

Whips and Dominators go together like Peanut Butter and Jelly.  Why ever would the focus of a whip set to be to craft it for a melee set to start?!  Melee has more than enough assaults already, they can wait in line behind doms on this one!

 

 

On the subject I have a psychokinetic (psi whips) assault dom on another server.  It is stupid strong.  It is put together with the 3 animations from Demon MM's for the whip, a power boosting build up type power, what seems to be reworking of 4 sword swirl attacks and then a unique ranged one with a whip/hold which the hold animates like Ghost Widow's hold. 

 

I'm not saying I like the look of going from a whip to swords but there's gotta be a way to hide the look of the swords.  Most of the set though flows and looks quite nice and plays awfully fun.  So yes lets get Dominators a whip set and then after while proliferate it to melee to dirty up.  

Edited November 6, 2021 by Mezmera

[krj12]

Indiana Jones is definitely a scrapper.  "Dirty" melee first.  :)

 

 

[Alchemystic]

1 hour ago, Mezmera said:

 

Hold up!  A build up type power okay but a taunt/placate power?  Is there some suggestion that dirty meleers should be getting this before Dominators?!  

 

 

If we're looking at what's most feasible, I guess it makes sense to go melee first since it's less work and benefits 4 archetypes.

[Mezmera]

33 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

 

If we're looking at what's most feasible, I guess it makes sense to go melee first since it's less work and benefits 4 archetypes.

 

If we're going by what's feasible there's 8 good powers likely already in place to port over to craft up an assault for a Dominator.  Depending if they want to add a Snipe type of power to the set or not the only other thing they'd need to come up with is a beastly ranged whip attack as the t9.  

 

If they're able to craft whole new zones and the like surely they can hash together one good ranged attack for a whip and paint over any swords in the melee swirly attacks.  

 

Dom's have by far the lowest power combination totals.  You melee are doing quite well in that area, but I wouldn't have a problem if they wanted to craft a new defense (gravity perhaps) for you to coincide this assault for doms, so long as blasters finally get left out of an update for once.  Yes what's feasible and fair I agree.   

Edited November 6, 2021 by Mezmera

[GraspingVileTerror]

I'm with @Mezmera in the sentiment that Whips and Dominators are the natural combination.

I'd still like to see a dedicated Whip Control Set, so we can get a Blade Assault Set too and combine the two in to my long-standing dream Dominator combo of:  Whip/Blades.

I've had a character concept since the Legacy/Retail days who has been Plant/Icy as the "next best thing."  I'm so very ready to finally have this character realized properly.  I will reroll in a heartbeat if those Sets become available.

[Perma-Newbie]

I never even connected the dots, but now I desperately want to play a whip/dark dom.

[Zepp]

Just to chime in, I also had a proposal...

[Zepp]

On 9/15/2019 at 3:45 AM, Zepp said:

Let's take a look at your proposed changes:

T1 -> T2 (becomes melee) (renamed)
T2 -> T3 (Infernal dropped for Hellfire)

T3 -> T8 (Renamed Charred Sky)
T4 -> T6 (Renamed from Whip Crack to Strike)
T5 (no changes)
T6 (eliminated)
T7 (specified particle modification) (Renamed to Brimstone [taken from T3])

T8 (eliminated)

T9 (No changes)

New T1 -> Taken from Flares
New T4 -> Taken from Fire Blast

I understand where you are going, but I'm not really in favor of eliminating the Aura. Also, I think keeping corruption as a ranged allows one to have a mix of melee and ranged within the context of just whip animations. In addition, I would suggest that since both Flares and Fire Blast already exist in Fiery Assault, it would be better to go with Scorch, as it is outside of currently existing Assault powers and gives the set a melee attack without converting Corruption. I also thought maybe removing Burn (8' melee location AoE) and replacing it with the Summon Demon Prince animation at double speed (without the actual summon) could be one way to limit the location AoE to 4', making it basically a ST ranged attack with a short duration mini patch left behind.

Thus, my proposal is:

Name	Animation	Level	Description
Curse	Corruption	1	Ranged (40'), Minor DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), -Res
Lash of Hellfire	Lash	2	Melee (20'), High DMG (Fire), Foe -Res, Immobilize, Minor DoT(Toxic)
Charred Sky	Rain of Fire	4	Ranged (40') (Location AoE), Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic)
Helltouched	Scorch	10	Melee, Moderate DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic)  -Res
Hellfire's Wrath	Envenomed Blades	16	Self +DoT (Fire/Toxic), +ToHit on all attacks
Fueling Flames	Cauterizing Aura	20	Toggle: PBAoE, Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic), Self +HoT, +Rec
Brimstone	Summon Demon Prince (sans Prince)	28	Ranged (40') (Location AoE), Moderate (Fire/Toxic), Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic), Foe -Res
Infernal Strike	Crack Whip	35	Melee (20' Cone), High DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res, Stun
Summon Hellfire	Hell on Earth	38	Ranged 40' Hold, Location AoE Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic), Summon Living Hellfire (2s Mag 6 hold, unenhanceable)