A max level character has never been my goal

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

Probably so.

 

But none of this gets to the root of the issue with GM Widower’s recommendation: if Diantane is freely allowed to spew his own garbage, why are we being admonished for responding in kind? Idk what you know about humans, but we get awfully hung up on issues of fairness from authorities.

 

You can say “don’t respond” all you want, but, on the forum I briefly mentioned above, that moderation strategy led to significant departures by core members, because it was made abundantly clear to us that the troll was not to be admonished as we were; this was just a rigged game for them to exploit indefinitely while respondents racked up bullshit warnings that were, for good reason, not particularly respected.

 

I think you're allowed to spew your own garbage. I think they just want people to keep things civil. That's what they keep calling for. Did Diantane personally attack you by posting things you think are false or don't agree with? "Responding in kind" seems to mean "you keep saying things I think are stupid so I'm going to ridicule you for it." That's not your place.

 

I don't think you understand trolling. It isn't a rigged game. You and the troll are not playing a game together. You are not going to win an argument with the troll or shame them away with ridicule. The troll is having fun by mocking you and/or the community at large. They are making you the butt of their joke. The first and most obvious thing is the inability of people to simply walk away from a troll post. The troll wants attention and it's even better when people argue with moderators about their right to give the troll the attention they're seeking. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Aurora_Girl]

If we are not expected to mock and ridicule those who stand in the public square and declare radioactive moon leeches are coming for our testicles, are we not Americans?

[battlewraith]

57 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

If we are not expected to mock and ridicule those who stand in the public square and declare radioactive moon leeches are coming for our testicles, are we not Americans?

 Oh it's far worse than radioactive moon leeches. Far far worse. Someone in a video game forum (which is not the public square) said that a WP tank was bad at taking an alpha. How could I possibly walk away from that ignominy?

 

 

[GM Impervium]

19 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

If we are not expected to mock and ridicule those who stand in the public square and declare radioactive moon leeches are coming for our testicles, are we not Americans?

 

Except this is a privately run forum, and we have rules against that sort of thing.

To wit, section 1 under "Content Guidelines" in our Code of Conduct:

"Do not abuse or harass others"

End of story. You think someone is stirring up trouble on purpose? Report them. Engaging is just as bad, if not worse. You're either feeding a troll, or if you're wrong, mocking someone who you perceive to be less intelligent than you. Either way, that's wrong, and it won't be tolerated. This message goes out to EVERYONE, I'm just quoting you specifically because it encapsulates the mindset we're trying to combat here.

[Sovera]

The GM has a point though. I do not agree with some things like being called a cheater, answering with idiot, and my post gets deleted and I get an infraction. In the meanwhile the post calling me a cheater is still there.

 

Obviously double standards are a thing.

 

But in this case they are right. Why the diatribe? Guy does not listen, guy does not care, then why make the very public sneering? It is not like he is listening, correct? It is playing to the audience.

 

Just put him on ignore.

[Aurora_Girl]

Again: I'm not saying anyone *is* an entitled moron, just that they are *acting like one.* An observation made only after episode after episode of demonstrated entitled moronity. 

 

In any event, I'll merely wait until the next thread, inevitably about how people who don't use Fly aren't "true superheroes" based on the anecdotal use of a Peacebringer. 

[Troo]

12 hours ago, Aurora_Girl said:

If we are not expected to mock and ridicule those who stand in the public square and declare radioactive moon leeches are coming for our testicles, are we not Americans?

 

Folks are free to point out that moon leeches are not coming. The moment folks start bullying a person for their view (right/wrong/whatever), that is wrong.

If folks start to then follow them everywhere continuing to mock and bully them. That's where a line has been crossed from bullying to harassment.

 

{pulls out soap box)

Also note, not everyone who plays is an American.

As for those of us who are and further for those who have served their country to defend 'Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness' your assertion may be misplaced.

 

Maybe the Oath of Enlistment for an officer will help:

Spoiler

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; That I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

 

If that's a bit much, maybe just re-watch 'A Few Good Men' and Aaron Sorkin can explain it.

Spoiler

Downey: [nervously] Colonel Jessup said he ordered the Code Red! What did we do wrong?

Galloway: It's not that simple...

Downey: [anxiously] What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong!

Dawson: Yeah we did. We were supposed to fight for people who couldn't fight for themselves. We were supposed to fight for Willy.

 

..but I'm guessing you are trying to be sarcastic.. maybe you're also being sarcastic about telling your kids they are morons.

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Troo
{puts away soap box)

[Haijinx]

I think some of y'all are letting this get to you too much. 

 

These threads add some life to teh forumz. So I figure, Troll or not Troll, its all good.  If the OP doesn't like Blaster squishiness, or going past level 38 or whatever.  That's all good.  Whatevs. 

 

I don't worry about his "advice" about a 20 year old game that is running on a private server long past its sunset corrupting the young impressionables.   

[Aurora_Girl]

Saying that someone saying moronic things is saying moronic things is not bullying. 

 

Good Lord. Yes, if my kids do or say dumb shit I say they're doing dumb shit. Again: calling someone "a dumb shit" and telling them they're "doing dumb shit" is not the same. 

 

Me replying to this thread is "doing dumb shit." 

[Aurora_Girl]

2 hours ago, Troo said:

 

Folks are free to point out that moon leeches are not coming. The moment folks start bullying a person for their view (right/wrong/whatever), that is wrong.

If folks start to then follow them everywhere continuing to mock and bully them. That's where a line has been crossed from bullying to harassment.

 

{pulls out soap box)

Also note, not everyone who plays is an American.

As for those of us who are and further for those who have severed their country to defend 'Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness' your assertion may be misplaced.

 

Maybe the Oath of Enlistment for an officer will help: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; That I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

 

If that's a bit much, maybe just re-watch 'A Few Good Men' and Aaron Sorkin can explain it.

  Reveal hidden contents

Downey: [nervously] Colonel Jessup said he ordered the Code Red! What did we do wrong?

Galloway: It's not that simple...

Downey: [anxiously] What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong!

Dawson: Yeah we did. We were supposed to fight for people who couldn't fight for themselves. We were supposed to fight for Willy.

 

..but I'm guessing you are trying to be sarcastic. Maybe you're being sarcastic about telling your kids they are morons.

I guess I'm wrong thinking a parent would be a little more self aware about bullying.

 

 

Also, for your sake...I "severed" in the U.S. Navy as an enlisted servicemember, so take that condescending bullshizzle all the duck the way out of here. 

[PeregrineFalcon]

3 hours ago, GM Impervium said:

You think someone is stirring up trouble on purpose? Report them.

Ok, fine. What if I do go report the OP right now? Is that going to do anything, other than cause a mod to come into the thread to warn US?

[Songseven]

17 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Ok, fine. What if I do go report the OP right now? Is that going to do anything, other than cause a mod to come into the thread to warn US?

you being such a drama queen about it all has been quite amusing tho!

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Ok, fine. What if I do go report the OP right now? Is that going to do anything, other than cause a mod to come into the thread to warn US?

 

What exactly would you be reporting them for?

[Greycat]

8 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Hey, I'm ok with that response.

 

Please make sure that the next time someone reports my post because "muh feelz was offended" that, instead of deleting my posts and giving me a warning, you simply tell them to ignore me. Cause that's what we're doing now, right?

 

As one person who can be a *complete* ass, I can say the *way* you say it can make a huge difference. Someone's offended? Meh, tell them to ignore the post. Someone's offended at a post that flat out says they're stupid and comes off like a personal attack? That will be more likely to get hidden and the person warned.  Wording and tone is important, *especially* here.

 

And honestly, I think you know that, but you personally seem to really like arguing with the GMs and ... sounding offended. *shrug.* But that's just how it looks from here.

[nihilii]

16 hours ago, DougGraves said:

 

Because these forums (and most online game forums) are generally an echo chamber of min/max powergamers that do raids or pvp and who consequently think that everyone plays the game the way they do. 

 

And the big concern is that the developers will think that everyone plays the game that way and change the game to suit that playstyle.

 

There are multiple subforums dedicated to people trying to be as powerful as possible.  A thread every few days about  not wanting to be as powerful as possible seems a minor counterbalance to trigger such a reaction.

 

1 has truth to it. Although less truth here, there is much less interest in raids and pvp, and these communities often feel just as ostracized as the roleplayers here... The forum trend is clearly lvl 50 PvE.

2 would imply so very little faith in developers. It would be against all common sense to balance based on anecdotal evidence when you've got tons of hard data at your disposal.

 

3 is an exaggeration in the other direction. It's much more often than every few days. Some posters make their entire forum identity about being a pseudo-roleplayer-lowlevel-anti-powergamingmunchkin-contrarian. You are yourself a poster child for this archetype, and it is very rare to see a post of yours that doesn't allude to this in some way.

Or, perhaps more accurately... The whole idea of "counterbalance" is biaised to start with. This is a RPG game in which defeating enemies gives you experience, and your character gains levels and abilities. Numerical progression and growth is the core loop in that game. By playing the game, characters naturally grow more powerful. People discuss how to slot their abilities efficiently, because progress is the natural course of the game, and making rational choices is itself a normal part of the human experience.

Going out of your way to play lowbies exclusively is special behavior. So is purposefully choosing to slot things inefficiently. There is a distinction here that is often exploited by contrarians: slotting things inefficiently on purpose is not the same as simply not knowing how to slot things yet. This game, like any game or universe, like real life itself, has rules. The player who doesn't understand the rules of this game universe yet is very different from the player who purposefully rejects these rules, much like someone who hasn't learned yet the earth is round or flat is not the same as a flat earther.

Likewise with playing lowbies because you've only got 1-2 hours of gaming time per week and other games you like, vs the guy who's been a regular for years and specifically turns off XP at level 15. These are not remotely the same.

 

It's disingenuous, and I would argue purposefully so, to lob in casual players in with the contrarian crowd. Most people are interested in learning more. Most people, when given the opportunity, go for their hero feeling powerful. Hence why we indeed have subforums filled with discussions on how to get most, or at least more, out of your toon. Hence why the AE changes, the double XP boosts, the more accessible IOs are widely used. Hence why a greater share of the playerbase is playing at level 50 now than before.

This is what I see SuperPlyx reacting to, and I'm in full agreement with it. Not only there's some sort of weird bragging involved in contrarian posts, there's often negativity emanating from these posts. It's like you have to make a point you're better than the rest of us, based on some elusive quality that obviously cannot be defined by numbers ("ah! how simple-minded you all are, for you cannot ascertain the spiritual undercurrents of my superior playstyle").

 

All too often, this attitude comes down to people who want to compete, but can't compete, and solve that cognitive dissonance by convincing themselves 1) they don't want to compete, and 2) they are in fact winning by a different set of undefined rules in which they are always the victor. Sometimes the cognitive dissonance remains too great, so the need comes to bring down people who are just playing normally with negativity.

It's just annoying, man. If you truly like playing lowbies so much for the sake of it, I don't see where the need for being obnoxious about it arises. "Helpless devs might get confused and balance the game around forum posters" is such a paper thin excuse. Not to mention amusingly ironic, as it is fairly obvious the antipower contrarians would be the ones twisting game balance development, in a hypothetical scenario in which game devs balanced the game around forum posts...

Edited December 13, 2021 by nihilii

[cranebump]

18 hours ago, DougGraves said:

And the big concern is that the developers will think that everyone plays the game that way and change the game to suit that playstyle.

On this track: I still haven’t managed to play the new Aeon thing. Does that cater to a certain playstyle?

[ArchVileTerror]

Very.

[TheOtherTed]

3 hours ago, nihilii said:

It's disingenuous, and I would argue purposefully so, to lob in casual players in with the contrarian crowd.

You know, when I saw the initial post, I was going to give a "me too" response to Diantane, as I've never had a character past 46 (either here or Live) and I have absolutely no interest in anything beyond workbench IOs.

 

Now, with the way this thread has gone, I suspect I'll be tagged as a "troll," or, worse, a "contrarian," and I have no doubts that at least one poster will scour my history to reveal what a terrible excuse of a human I am.  But I'm posting anyway, because I have this morbid curiousity about the darker sides of social interaction.

 

Edit:  Also just wanted to point out that the sort of tone found in this thread can have a silencing effect on people whose preferred playstyles differ from the majority voice.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by TheOtherTed

[cranebump]

That took a while to read...

 

On the discussion of “contrarian” attitudes of lowbie players: I have a few incarnates. I have a fire farming tank. I exploit the market for quick cash, and send tons of Inf to starting toons to buff them up. I team more than I solo. 

 

I also have a few characters who run pretty “vanilla” (gain $$ on their own, slot DOs early, SOs later; maybe IO, maybe not, depending on cash situation). What I have found through vanilla play is that much more of the game’s content suddenly becomes naturally relevant and challenging by default. I don’t have to fiddle with diff switches. I can just sort of play through. Further, the story mishes, by sending me hither and yon, have me exploring more of the zones and their maps than my typical rush through characters. It’s a nice change of pace. Now, do I want that ALL of the time? Nope. But it’s there. Advocates of slow /vanilla play remind me that the base game has a lot to offer, and I appreciate that. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by cranebump

[A Cat]

19 minutes ago, cranebump said:

On this track: I still haven’t managed to play the new Aeon thing. Does that cater to a certain playstyle?

Yes. Pugged it (1.5 times actually. Unfortunately had to bail on my first team due to an unexpected IRL emergency during that beautiful DE map. Sorry again guys!). We were on Malicious I think? And died 174 times and took 2 hours. Can't 100% remember, but I think we were half Incarnates and half sub level 50's. We only had one support character (a MM with Cold Domination, who was one of the lowbies. Probably the MVP keeping us all alive, but I felt bad since they died to much). I am no power gamer or anything myself, though I had a ok general scrapper build with T3 Incarnates. I had my share of dying as well. Even with me on a EM/Bio scrapper and two Stalkers, we couldn't always gank a Brickernaut in time before they activate the gold beam of death. We all had to just run like mad. The Melt Armor's are a helluva drug. Our Brute would just randomly be killed in less than a second sometimes due to this. There's definitely a strategy to tackling a mob. Smelters, then Brickernauts, then Boomers last so they don't Veng everyone else. The AU-Rifters too whenever they are activating their thing, though they die fast enough they don't necessarily need to be focused IMO. 

[Erratic1]

45 minutes ago, cranebump said:

On this track: I still haven’t managed to play the new Aeon thing. Does that cater to a certain playstyle?

 

Did it on normal (vicious) difficulty yesterday. At that level it is not the nastiest TF but well in line with wanting a solid build. My only defeat was when I did not notice what I was charging into was a pack of five AVs however there was one character who was routinely watching action from the floor. The character I was playing has his third level alpha. I suspect the character routinely going down did not.

 

The higher difficulty levels though I think will definitely cater to increasingly optimized character and (without having tried them) possibly require crafting a specific team for.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Erratic1

[Aurora_Girl]

43 minutes ago, TheOtherTed said:

You know, when I saw the initial post, I was going to give a "me too" response to Diantane, as I've never had a character past 46 (either here or Live) and I have absolutely no interest in anything beyond workbench IOs.

 

Now, with the way this thread has gone, I suspect I'll be tagged as a "troll," or, worse, a "contrarian," and I have no doubts that at least one poster will scour my history to reveal what a terrible excuse of a human I am.  But I'm posting anyway, because I have this morbid curiousity about the darker sides of social interaction.

 

Edit:  Also just wanted to point out that the sort of tone found in this thread can have a silencing effect on people whose preferred playstyles differ from the majority voice.

 

 

 

I would say, if I asked why you choose to play that way, and you gave a thoughtful and reasoned response, no one would mind. 

[Sovera]

1 hour ago, TheOtherTed said:

You know, when I saw the initial post, I was going to give a "me too" response to Diantane, as I've never had a character past 46 (either here or Live) and I have absolutely no interest in anything beyond workbench IOs.

 

Now, with the way this thread has gone, I suspect I'll be tagged as a "troll," or, worse, a "contrarian," and I have no doubts that at least one poster will scour my history to reveal what a terrible excuse of a human I am.  But I'm posting anyway, because I have this morbid curiousity about the darker sides of social interaction.

 

Edit:  Also just wanted to point out that the sort of tone found in this thread can have a silencing effect on people whose preferred playstyles differ from the majority voice.

 

 

 

You are missing the context. And as an outsider looking without context it looks like an horrid community ganging up on some poor casual who dared to express their anti meta views.

 

The context is that Dian has the habit of popping into the forums and then make a thread explaining how to play the game.

 

As an example In one of their most recent threads they explained how people who play support ATs (tanks included) and take their attacks (and use them) are playing the game wrong. Followed by a proud example on how his character is level X and only has the first attack because the game forces them to.

 

So you are catching the comets tail.

 

If you can be bothered you can check their posting history and see the initial posts with these nuggets and the community trying to steer them off the WoW mentality.

 

But the threads keep coming and pearls of anti-wisdom keep on being dropped and, well, at some point some people stopped assuming ignorance.

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Sovera
So many typos, I suck at mobile posting.

[Darmian]

Well, this all went nowhere fast, ya? 

[Troo]

16 hours ago, arcane said:

Give me a forum ban if that’s a problem. Because I am not about to coddle this OP. I genuinely tried to help them dozens of times before we wound up here

 

So your plan forward is to badger them at every opportunity and upvote anyone who piles on? You are better than that, aren't you?