Require Two Level 50 Characters to Get XP in AE

[Solarverse]

7 hours ago, ZacKing said:

 

It's not an indication of anything.  There's people with hundreds badges who still don't understand what they're doing.  I have at least half a dozen alts in various states of being PLed that don't have any defeat badges.  I have other characters that have over a thousand badges.  If I'm running one of my alts on a TF with you, does that make me a PL'ed noob?  you're really trying to make this into a huge problem that just doesn't really exist.  it's nowhere near as rampant as you're claiming it is and the criteria you're using isn't exactly solid.  It seems to be biased on your prejudices.

 

 

I'm not trying to make it anything, In fact I even said that I run in to players like this "From time to time." I never said I run in to them constantly. I also said there wasn't anything you could do about it. I just think it's asinine that people pretend it's not a problem at all and anyone who posts about it is treated like they are lying.  I am not making it out to be more than what it is, I am simply not pretending "pretending" like it just doesn't happen. Want to know my stance since you clearly didn't read my stance so you can stop claiming that I am making it out to something that it is not?

  1: I recognize the problem and admit it exists on an unknown level.

 

  2: I admit nothing can, nor should be done about it.

Any words you put in my mouth other than those two statements is a lie.   <-----Was a butthole thing to say. I apologize. Anything other than that is a misrepresentation of my intentions or thoughts at this current time. I say this because my opinion has been altered a bit over the course of this thread.

 

Edited for being a butthole.

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Solarverse

[Ghost]

47 minutes ago, biostem said:

 

I did.  You put forth a suggestion of limiting XP gain rate, as a way of reducing PL-ing.  That is, by definition, dictating a particular playstyle...

Sigh

You are right.  Way to ignore the entire post, and pick out one sentence.

Such is the way of the world these days.

 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Ghost

[Solarverse]

22 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

I'll admit that that's probably really annoying when a level 50 doesn't know how to get to Peregrine Island or Steel Canyon.  But is that rare instance of someone not knowing how to navigate to another zone really enough of an issue to reduce/kill XP in the AE or radio missions?

 

The way I see it, the purpose of this thread is to advocate for a change that will either:

1. Improve the knowledge of players so that PuGs aren't so bad, or:
2. Force others to play the game the way the OP wants them to play it.

This change won't solve problem 1, and 2 isn't a problem when people mind their own business and stop worrying so much about what other people are doing on their own free time.

 

If some n00b got themselves PL'd up to 50 and they want to start enjoying the game now, good for them! Let them play the game the way they want to. They'll learn soon enough that they either like the game or they don't. If they don't then it doesn't matter cause they'll just quit playing. If they do like it then they're more likely to actually play their next character up to 50.

 

Either way it doesn't hurt you. Just kick the AE Baby from your PuG and move on. Or, here's an idea, help them out and explain stuff to them and maybe they'll want to stick around and learn to actually play the game.

 

This right here should honestly sum up the entire thread. This is the most logical answer anyone could have made. The recognition of the frustration/problem, then logically breaking down the only two possible solutions, applying the most logical solution.

Great post, @PeregrineFalcon

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Sigh

You are right.  Way to ignore the entire post, and pick out one sentence.

Such is the way of the world these days.

Nope.  Read your entire post.  For someone who claims "This issue is not ruining the game, or even my enjoyment of the game.", you sure seem to be very defensive about the very suggestion you put forth earlier.  Here's a free piece of advise - if you aren't in favor of something, either don't mention it as a way of achieving some end, or actually state that you aren't in favor of it and/or frame your statement as something you would never actually want to see implemented.

[Glacier Peak]

4 hours ago, Luminara said:

I tried that.  I was arrested for grave robbing and all of my scientific equipment was taken away.  😞

Is that you Piecemeal???

[Hyperstrike]

3 hours ago, Ghost said:

Sigh

You are right.  Way to ignore the entire post, and pick out one sentence.

Such is the way of the world these days.

 

Oh those shoes are pretty.
You have such nice eyes.
How do you keep your car looking so clean and new!
You look very intelligent.
Kill maim destroy!
Your kids are so well behaved.
I'm sure you're due to win the lottery one of these day.
You've helped me so much.
I try to get along with everyone.
He's a dear, dear friend.
My wife is the most beautiful woman in the universe.
That was a tasty burger.

While I'm sure you have a broader point, there are times when couching bad things in larger statements is undesirable.
Hell, look at the current state of lawmaking in the US.

A law that can be summed up in 500 words or less.  Couched within a million-word document filled with addendums and pork and other graft.
 

[Bionic_Flea]

On 12/28/2021 at 11:10 PM, Apparition said:

Suggestion: Make a requirement that an account must have two level 50 characters on it to unlock the ability to earn XP in AE missions.  You can still do AE content beforehand, you just wouldn't earn any XP while doing so.

 

I realize that this is a pie in the sky wish that will most likely never happen, but hey, doesn't hurt to suggest it.

I would just make a third account to PL alts.  So would a bunch of other people.  I don't even farm or PL that much, but when I want to skip a few levels, I skip a few levels.

 

I'm not sure what problem you are trying to solve, but I am fairly certain this would not solve it.

[golstat2003]

2 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I would just make a third account to PL alts.  So would a bunch of other people.  I don't even farm or PL that much, but when I want to skip a few levels, I skip a few levels.

 

I'm not sure what problem you are trying to solve, but I am fairly certain this would not solve it.

 

This is actually a very good point about why the OPs suggestion would not work. This is not like live, there is no limitation on the number of accounts you can make.

[Bill Z Bubba]

4 hours ago, golstat2003 said:

This is actually a very good point about why the OPs suggestion would not work. This is not like live, there is no limitation on the number of accounts you can make.

 

If there was a limitation on live, it was ignored. I remember at least one person that 8-boxed often.

[Hedgefund]

Actually there's a limitation here (3, see https://forums.homecomingservers.com/code-of-conduct/#multiboxing-policy) but there wasn't on live.  Certainly in the pre "free to play" model they were willing to take your $15/mo for as many times as you wanted to pay it.  That's not to imply there was a limit in the free to play world, there wasn't.  There is now though.  

[ZacKing]

14 hours ago, Solarverse said:

I'm not trying to make it anything, In fact I even said that I run in to players like this "From time to time." I never said I run in to them constantly. I also said there wasn't anything you could do about it. I just think it's asinine that people pretend it's not a problem at all and anyone who posts about it is treated like they are lying.  I am not making it out to be more than what it is, I am simply not pretending "pretending" like it just doesn't happen. Want to know my stance since you clearly didn't read my stance so you can stop claiming that I am making it out to something that it is not?

  1: I recognize the problem and admit it exists on an unknown level.

 

  2: I admit nothing can, nor should be done about it.

Any words you put in my mouth other than those two statements is a lie.   <-----Was a butthole thing to say. I apologize. Anything other than that is a misrepresentation of my intentions or thoughts at this current time. I say this because my opinion has been altered a bit over the course of this thread.

 

Edited for being a butthole.

 

 

But you are trying to make it something by coming to the forums and making posts about it.  It's perfectly ok to come and vent about something that frustrates you.  I'm sorry if what I wrote earlier wasn't clear.  I didn't mean to say that there are no new PLed players at all.  I was saying that I don't see it as a big deal and not something to stress over.  You're even admitting it's rare.  Just a difference of opinion is all.  There will be bad players whether there's AE farming or not.

[Apparition]

1 hour ago, Hedgefund said:

Actually there's a limitation here (3, see https://forums.homecomingservers.com/code-of-conduct/#multiboxing-policy) but there wasn't on live.  Certainly in the pre "free to play" model they were willing to take your $15/mo for as many times as you wanted to pay it.  That's not to imply there was a limit in the free to play world, there wasn't.  There is now though.  

 

 

Yep.  I know of someone back on live that had thirteen accounts and farmed himself for PvP IO enhancements for years.

[Solarverse]

33 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

 

But you are trying to make it something by coming to the forums and making posts about it.  It's perfectly ok to come and vent about something that frustrates you.  I'm sorry if what I wrote earlier wasn't clear.  I didn't mean to say that there are no new PLed players at all.  I was saying that I don't see it as a big deal and not something to stress over.  You're even admitting it's rare.  Just a difference of opinion is all.  There will be bad players whether there's AE farming or not.

 

Cool, but I didn't make this thread, man. I simply responded to it. I don't come to the forums to complain. I think I have once, maybe. But if so that was a very long time ago.

[Greycat]

8 hours ago, Hedgefund said:

Actually there's a limitation here (3, see https://forums.homecomingservers.com/code-of-conduct/#multiboxing-policy) but there wasn't on live.  Certainly in the pre "free to play" model they were willing to take your $15/mo for as many times as you wanted to pay it.  That's not to imply there was a limit in the free to play world, there wasn't.  There is now though.  

 

That's the limit of the number that can be on at once, not the number you can have. (I don't know *why* you'd want more than you can have on at once, but ... well, small nitpicky difference.)

 

I mean, it's per shard, so I suppose *technically* you could run 15 at once...

Edited January 13, 2022 by Greycat

[Hedgefund]

Nowhere does it say the limit of accounts you can have on at once is accounts per shard.  It states if a shard has a certain population you may or may not be able to multibox.

 

It would be good to get clarification from Mods.  Not critical because I get the sense they don't actually care, I know enough people that blow these numbers out of the water.

[Excraft]

On 1/12/2022 at 1:00 PM, Apparition said:

This suggestion isn't even really my preferred solution to the problem, although it would be better than nothing.  IMO, if it were up to me, I'd lower experience while in AE to 25%, lower experience while on newspaper and radio missions to 50%, and charge a ton of INF for the 50% and double XP boosters. 

 

Translation -  "The way I play is the RIGHT way to play.  Screw everyone else and what they find fun.  They MUST play the way I say."  Charging tons of inf for stuff is something the devs here have said they absolutely will not do as all it does is drive people to goldfarmer sites to buy inf.  No thank you.  I have a better solution for you - play the way you like and let others do what they like.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Excraft

[Greycat]

9 hours ago, Hedgefund said:

Nowhere does it say the limit of accounts you can have on at once is accounts per shard.  It states if a shard has a certain population you may or may not be able to multibox.

 

It would be good to get clarification from Mods.  Not critical because I get the sense they don't actually care, I know enough people that blow these numbers out of the water.

 

If you're replying to me, it says very clearly -

 

Quote

We allow a basic level of multiboxing on the Homecoming servers outside of peak times. These rules apply on a shard-by-shard basis (by ‘shard’ we mean Torchbearer, Excelsior, etc).

• If there are less than 1500 people logged in to a shard you may play with up to three accounts at once.
• If there are more than 1500 people logged into a shard you may only play with a single account.

 

Highlights mine. Not sure what needs clarification there.  Very plainly says "per shard," including a definition of what a shard is, and how many you can have on at once. Which, itself, is ... multiboxing. They're not talking about your technical ability to multibox. They're talking about you having permission to. (Thus the followon statements saying they will warn people, and repeat offenders facing permanent bans. These are behavioral statements, not technical ones. The only technical statement comes at the end where it states multiboxing is not allowed in Hami zones due to the population limits.)

[MHertz]

On 1/11/2022 at 9:53 PM, Solarverse said:

Then you look at their badges and see nothing, nodda. They are level 50 and they don't even have the first damage badge as damage dealers, or the first healing badge as a healer, or the first damage taken badge as a Tanker, they have no exploration badges or even "you killed X amount of Z's" badges.

People are saying you can't tell based on badges, I disagree strongly.

Can tell what? See, that’s the part I have trouble with.

 

Can you tell some character got PLed? Yes, I agree, there are definitely combinations of badges that a character probably ought to have earned to some degree. If they have dealt no damage and taken no damage by level 50, sure, I agree that person was probably a door sitter or a PL baby.

 

Can you tell that the player is new? No. The lack of badges doesn’t say anything about whether the player is new, uninformed, clueless, etc.

 

Can you tell that the player got their XP in AE? No, not necessarily in all cases. They’ll definitely have the architect pages for playing a game, but that’s not the only way to PL to 50. One could door-sit for radio missions in PI, for instance.

 

I refuse to agree that a lack of badges and accolades alone is proof that the character was PLed and that the player is new, without further evidence. This mythical newbie who somehow installs the game, stumbles into the LFG channel, happens to ask for PL, and accidentally falls into a Pocket D fire farm for 50 straight levels and then walks directly into your Posi 1 Task Force … yeah, gonna need proof of that. I find it unlikely.

 

The game has made it easier than ever for people to camp XP in one spot for 50 levels — the AE building, radio missions, instant city-wide sidekick, free base teleporters to all zones, monsters that con the same to all levels — so it isn’t just an AE problem. Whatever solution is put forth will have to address more than just this one aspect of the game.

 

Not for nothing, but people used to know how to use their travel powers because they used to have to travel.

[MHertz]

Double post.

Edited January 14, 2022 by MHertz

[Solarverse]

12 minutes ago, MHertz said:

Can tell what? See, that’s the part I have trouble with.

 

Can you tell some character got PLed? Yes, I agree, there are definitely combinations of badges that a character probably ought to have earned to some degree. If they have dealt no damage and taken no damage by level 50, sure, I agree that person was probably a door sitter or a PL baby.

 

Can you tell that the player is new? No. The lack of badges doesn’t say anything about whether the player is new, uninformed, clueless, etc.

 

Can you tell that the player got their XP in AE? No, not necessarily in all cases. They’ll definitely have the architect pages for playing a game, but that’s not the only way to PL to 50. One could door-sit for radio missions in PI, for instance.

 

I refuse to agree that a lack of badges and accolades alone is proof that the character was PLed and that the player is new, without further evidence. This mythical newbie who somehow installs the game, stumbles into the LFG channel, happens to ask for PL, and accidentally falls into a Pocket D fire farm for 50 straight levels and then walks directly into your Posi 1 Task Force … yeah, gonna need proof of that. I find it unlikely.

 

The game has made it easier than ever for people to camp XP in one spot for 50 levels — the AE building, radio missions, instant city-wide sidekick, free base teleporters to all zones, monsters that con the same to all levels — so it isn’t just an AE problem. Whatever solution is put forth will have to address more than just this one aspect of the game.

 

Not for nothing, but people used to know how to use their travel powers because they used to have to travel.

 

As stated earlier, I don't even look at anyone's badges unless they give me reason to look. So if I am looking at your badges, it's because I have strong suspicion that not only are you new, but also PLed to 50. Does that always mean I am right? Probably not, but it doesn't mean that I am wrong either.

[MHertz]

12 hours ago, Solarverse said:

 

As stated earlier, I don't even look at anyone's badges unless they give me reason to look. So if I am looking at your badges, it's because I have strong suspicion that not only are you new, but also PLed to 50. Does that always mean I am right? Probably not, but it doesn't mean that I am wrong either.

I guess we disagree on what the word "new" means in this context. For me, I take it to mean "recently arrived for the first time." I highly, highly doubt that this game — a feeble population on a rogue server for a dead game with no visible marketing strategy — is attracting floods of "new" players by that definition.

 

It seems to me that you're using the word "new" to mean "unfamiliar with the elements of the game outside of PLing." And that I will freely concede could indeed be true, because the game has (as I've said) made it easier to progress in levels without progressing in game experience. A person could well be here for many months, quickly (or slowly) building up an army of level 50 door-sitters, because it is easy to progress in that fashion. That player might even think they're doing it the "right way," or they might feel proud to have found this loophole. I wouldn't know.

 

In any case, I'm not seeing the connection between the alleged problem ("new" players) and the solution (make changes to AE XP). It might plug one leak, but it wouldn't stop PLing; and even if it did, it would not, on its own, serve to educate players.

 

If I wanted to help prevent players from making it through the game in an uninformed state, I would introduce gate missions at certain levels. These would be required on at least one character in order to gain any XP past that level. Once the sequence is completed, the player would earn a global badge and would not have to do those missions on future alts.

 

I don't have an exact list off the top of my head, but it'd be something like this:

• before advancing past level 5 (blueside), you must:
  • complete any one contact mission in Atlas Park
• before advancing past level 10, you must:
  • level up at least once from either Blue Steel (in Kings Row) or Foreshadow (in the Hollows)
• before advancing past level 15, you must:
  • level up at least once with Valkyrie (Steel Canyon) or Mynx (Skyway City), who makes you do a zone-wide patrol that forces you to visit all 5 origin-based shops

And so on. This might be a minor inconvenience for AFK PLing, but it wouldn't stop players from doing it in whatever manner they chose. It would barely be a speed bump, since it would only be required on your first toon. However, it might be enough to make sure that the player has at least once seen some of the contacts in some of the zones in the game.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by MHertz

[Solarverse]

1 minute ago, MHertz said:

I guess we disagree on what the word "new" means in this context. For me, I take it to mean "recently arrived for the first time." I highly, highly doubt that this game — a feeble population on a rogue server for a dead game with no visible marketing strategy — is attracting floods of "new" players by that definition.

 

 

 

Yup, fair enough. I would like to respond to the quoted paragraph though. I meet players who openly admit they are new to the game all the time. But I chat a lot while teaming, so learning things about people is something I do often.

[Solarverse]

4 minutes ago, MHertz said:

In any case, I'm not seeing the connection between the alleged problem ("new" players) and the solution (make changes to AE XP). It might plug one leak, but it wouldn't stop PLing; and even if it did, it would not, on its own, serve to educate players.

 

You must be reading something I wrote earlier in this thread, I pretty much came up with the same conclusion a few pages back.  🙂

[Blood Speaker]

So to sum up this entire thread: A narrow group of players don't like playing with PLed 50s who don't know how to play the game, don't want to "waste time" helping them out, and don't want to hear any dissenting opinions or suggestions.

 

Why waste anyone else's time here, when you could just get a private Discord channel amongst yourselves to gripe about it? If you're not going to be open-minded about solutions, then you were never here to do anything BUT complain and see other people agree with you.