Can anything solo LRSF/Miss Liberty TF?

[Erratic1]

6 hours ago, subbacultchas said:

Using telnet protocol in the downstairs computer lab in the uni library. Sitting in the far back of course, hoping the techs didn't notice what you were doing.

Fun times, I'd occasionally dream in green text.

 

Fortunately ours techs did not care. The trick back then pre-ISPs was maintaining an account after one had graduated.

[Aurora_Girl]

3 hours ago, Elmyder said:

 

So first of all, I actually completely agree with this. Not only do I think emailing insps to yourself is game breaking, I believe inspirations themselves are game breaking. (My opinion, not necessarily shared by anyone I play with.) If any nerf was to come to inspirations, from merely banning email usage in missions, all the way to removing them from the game, I would accept it and rebalance my gameplay around it. I don't actually *like* inspirations mechanically (again, my opinion), because I'm naturally more a fan of leveraging mechanics in builds, but when it comes to speedrunning, as it is in the speedrunning community of any game, the spirit is to use everything available in the game, including exploits, to achieve the best possible time. Runs like this are done in the interest of fun, challenge, and competition, not in the interest of exploiting anything for in game benefits. I merely find it fun to challenge the limits of the game. 

 

I will note, with solo MLTF being a prime example, that the planning that goes into these runs and the concentration it takes to manage temps and inspiration chain effectively greatly exceed the benefit they provide. For instance, it took me much much longer to complete the run in the screenshot posted above than it would have taken me to join a pug and complete the task force. Not only is my solo time slower than most speed pugs, and the planning time longer, but you should also take into account runs that were messed up midway, at which point I would quit mid task force, restock insrpirations, go to bloody bay to restock shivans, go to warburg to restock on nukes, yadayada. Not to mention how the inspirations used each run have a large price tag in total.

 

 

So while I understand why you have this perspective, it's very far off base. With the above in mind, the kind of speedruns that exploit things like emailed inspirations are not only inefficient for farming rewards, they cost far far more in time and resources than they yield. That said, I do know people who speedrun task forces to farm merits and hami os. They do not chain inspirations, they do not use email exploits, temps, anything out of the ordinary. As that would be wasteful. They use optimized builds and knowledge of the game to complete the major endgame task forces in maybe 10-15ish mins a piece with mininal downtime between runs. 

 

But it would also be naive to suppose runs like this have anything to do with the economy. Just on the topic of hami os, hamidon raids are by and large the primary source of the supply, and the easiest way to acquire them. 

 

To answer the implied question directly though, cytos, micros, and nucleoli are expensive because they are optimal in many builds. The others are cheaper because they are used in far fewer builds. They all have the exact same rarity. 

 

In any case!

 

 

Don't worry, I figured as much haha. I've seen my fair share of UIs that boggle my mind. One thing I love so much about this game is the extent to which I can customize it. 

 

 

No worries, and thank you! I'd really like to land a new i27 record of this and others. Hopefully not too long from now we can post new times. Coordinating with other plays on the necessary level is sometimes more of a challenge than the runs themselves xD. 

 

 

I'm fairly certain that this team or similar could do repeated sub 10 runs at this point without much preparation. I also believe with the i27 changes and new knowledge that a faster time is possible. We have done these many times as both casual and serious practice, so it's hard to quantify "how many", but I want to say on the day this was our second or third attempt to break the previous record. 

 

I think I maybe wasn't clear. I believe the large majority of people who are willing to pay 25M+ to get 0.00002726% (or whatever, math is dumb) more run speed out of sprint are, ya know, people concerned with doing things as fast as possible. 

 

I'm not saying that's inherently *bad* or anything, just a supply and demand thing. 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Aurora_Girl

[SeraphimKensai]

23 minutes ago, Aurora_Girl said:

I think I maybe wasn't clear. I believe the large majority of people who are willing to pay 25M+ to get 0.00002726% (or whatever, math is dumb) more run speed out of sprint are, ya know, people concerned with doing things as fast as possible. 

I still believe that all the prices here are essentially discount bargain prices compared to back on live where it was the usual in my circle to have builds ranging between 4-8 billion influence worth of IO's. Mind you we created that wealth due to farming, marketing, and being part of a raiding guild that literally had us have mandatory private hami raids as early as the Hamidon has been there. Before the AH and IO's I literally had multiple mule accounts of lvl 50 characters I had farmed, not to actually play, but to hold all the excess HO's I had.

 

That said I don't think paying 25 mil is a lot at least to my mind for an IO, when if you remember a LoTG +7.5 used to be around 200 or so mil by itself back on live. I am though by nature a min-maxer who as some put it likes to go fast (because time is a commodity that's tough to get back) and a cheapskate as my wife calls me, so if I can reasonably achieve the same thing or there abouts for less I will, like @macskullpointed out earlier with travel IO cost compared to travel HO cost.

 

I have also ah/emailed inspirations to myself in the past to have more available for PvP purposes back on live. I haven't tried it during my self imposed retirement, but it definitely made staying in a zone. I still buy EoEs for the occasional hami raid via the AH as is. Inspirations although having been a part of the game since it's inception, are not balanced in relation to the game. Another PvE example is stacking reds in a fire farm.

 

If I was a developer for the game during the live era, I probably would of looked into implementing an inspiration cool down so that they couldn't be stacked, but it gives everyone a chance to pop everything they have every once in a while and really let loose.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 hour ago, Aurora_Girl said:

I think I maybe wasn't clear. I believe the large majority of people who are willing to pay 25M+ to get 0.00002726% (or whatever, math is dumb) more run speed out of sprint are, ya know, people concerned with doing things as fast as possible. 

 

I'm not saying that's inherently *bad* or anything, just a supply and demand thing. 

 

You know me, man. I'm the guy that will spend three hours soloing an ITF. I don't need three lvl 53 micros in sprint, swift and quickness because of speed runs.

 

I need them cuz max is max, yo, and they look cool on the manage screen.

 

An NO ONE has emailed me any micros yet! Wait... @BillyMailman emailed me one!!! Thanks, man!

[Aurora_Girl]

10 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

You know me, man. I'm the guy that will spend three hours soloing an ITF. I don't need three lvl 53 micros in sprint, swift and quickness because of speed runs.

 

I need them cuz max is max, yo, and they look cool on the manage screen.

 

An NO ONE has emailed me any micros yet! Wait... @BillyMailman emailed me one!!! Thanks, man!

 

I *do* know you, and you're a very unique kind of animal. 🤗

[arcane]

18 hours ago, macskull said:

Ooh yeah, I forgot those have been going for a lot recently. Shows how much I've been ingame the last couple months. I can't figure that one out though, the only power I can think of off the top of my head where end/tohit/def might be a useful enhancement pick is Invincibility. No idea why the level 53s are going for 200-300m.

Well I’m largely at fault for bidding 50-60m on the level 50 ones all year.

 

Has nothing to do with using all 3 effects and everything to do with obsessing over the extra ~5.2% enhancement of a 53 over a +5 IO - same reason PvPers would want Micros.

 

Sure, for most builds, you want the set bonuses. However I have a few characters where I really wanted to reach for endurance independence with a ton of toggles without Ageless. On those few characters, I will often use these for pool toggles and more. E.g. 2 in Tactics, 2+LotG in Maneuvers.

 

I’m currently working on upping the insanity and trying to build out one of those toons with a ton of D-Syncs too. Because it looks cool, unique, and I can.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by arcane

[arcane]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I need them cuz max is max, yo, and they look cool on the manage screen.

This sums it up.

[Doomguide2005]

3 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

 

Actually, I agree with this.  But they're a temporary boost, lasting just 1 minute each with a maximum inventory of 20.  So that's supposed to be balance out their power.  Allowing them to be emailed to yourself effectively removes the balance factor completely.  That is the bigger issue.  Rebalancing them by adjusting their boost value or duration might be a second thing to consider.

 

Also, just reiterating, I don't really care very strongly on this subject either way.  After all these years, I'm content with leaving the broken things broken.  But let's not pretend it's not broken.

👍

I'm thinking in many ways the greatest balancing factor for inspirations is just how many folks tend to forget to use them in general play.  I'd be rich if I earned inf every time I watched a video and saw someone faceplate without using inspirations they have visible in their tray. 🤪

[Fira]

Random thought but I didn't see ASF mentioned here as an alternative, since OP's wording seemed to suggest actually wanting the Hami-Os more than the content itself. DSOs also come with more combinations, though I don't know if that raises or decreases overall value :shrug: ...

 

On other note please indeed totally 9001% destroy mail/items (and AH in open-world) claiming at least within TF missions... I've used and abused it and similar for testing and clearly this should at the very least not be an in-combat option - you'd think this is a nobrainer. Inspirations are already super potent, at least get out of combat/mission to get op buffs for next 5 minutes, i don't know...

[arcane]

41 minutes ago, Fira said:

Random thought but I didn't see ASF mentioned here as an alternative, since OP's wording seemed to suggest actually wanting the Hami-Os more than the content itself. DSOs also come with more combinations, though I don't know if that raises or decreases overall value :shrug: ...

I don’t *think* anyone specifically wants HO’s over D-Syncs but maybe. They will share the same pricing/etc on the market though.

 

What I do want to say is that the new D-Sync combinations not found as HO’s will temporarily have the potential to get more expensive than Micros/Cytos simply due to squeezed supply. I mean the Slow/End/Rech, for instance, shouldn’t be that valuable, but clearly you people aren’t doing enough Aeons because the supply of 0 available is driving up bids 🙂

[Elmyder]

4 hours ago, Aurora_Girl said:

 

I think I maybe wasn't clear. I believe the large majority of people who are willing to pay 25M+ to get 0.00002726% (or whatever, math is dumb) more run speed out of sprint are, ya know, people concerned with doing things as fast as possible. 

 

 

ah, my apologies, I did misunderstand. Thanks for the clarification! 

 

I would say they are expensive because enough people can afford to min max. I don't think there are enough serious speedrunners to impact the market much, but these are not the only people I know who are willing to pay a premium for a small improvement. And that's gonna come down to player wealth more so than the relative percentages. 

 

Also I will note that the benefit of hami os are a bit different than that. A 50+5 run io is better speed than a micro, but a micro is close and also enhances endurance. Two will bring both stats roughly to ed. Same with cyto in tactics. Two cytos in tactics enhance to hit and endurance significantly more than one to hit and one end redux.

 

A speedrunner however might not care about endurance because of all their temps and therefore not choose the hami o. (I always put a run io in sprint for better move speed during combat suppression, vs a hami o in super speed because that is enough to speed cap so might as well get some end too.)

 

So rather than being a way to get a miniscule stat boost, hami os are more aptly seen as a way to save enhancemt slots on a general build. 

[momentarygrace]

53 minutes ago, Fira said:

...On other note please indeed totally 9001% destroy mail/items (and AH in open-world) claiming at least within TF missions... I've used and abused it and similar for testing and clearly this should at the very least not be an in-combat option - you'd think this is a nobrainer. Inspirations are already super potent, at least get out of combat/mission to get op buffs for next 5 minutes, i don't know...

 

9001% nope.

 

Full disclosure - I read threads like this but the whole discussion is hundreds of floors over my head. I'm what I guess you could call a casual, but hopelessly devoted player since Issue 3 or so on live. When CoX was shut down, I lost something I never ceased to mourn for, and having it back has improved my mental and emotional well-being by volumes. I love creating characters, mostly heroes, but I do have villains and did do Praetorians when they first appeared, because they were there.

 

I love having super powers, or skills, or whatever the character's theme might be and saving random citizens (blueside)/smacking random annoyances (redside), running missions, mostly solo but with the occasional PUG. I have 1 50/Incarnate and too many alts. 

 

I do not have the head for/concentration or inclination for analyzing my game play on the level folks in this discussion do. I read the threads to perhaps pick up what crumbs my brain can absorb and have thereby improved what I can do solo (and my sporadic team participation) from it.

 

But I am shaking my head almost sadly at how definitively some folks state what options currently available should be "destroyed" for everyone.

 

I don't understand how something like emailing inspirations, or according to some, inspirations period, can be game-breaking. How is my use of anything the game offers breaking someone else's game???

 

I don't get it.

[Glacier Peak]

3 minutes ago, momentarygrace said:

9001% nope.

 

Full disclosure - I read threads like this but the whole discussion is hundreds of floors over my head. I'm what I guess you could call a casual, but hopelessly devoted player since Issue 3 or so on live. When CoX was shut down, I lost something I never ceased to mourn for, and having it back has improved my mental and emotional well-being by volumes. I love creating characters, mostly heroes, but I do have villains and did do Praetorians when they first appeared, because they were there.

 

I love having super powers, or skills, or whatever the character's theme might be and saving random citizens (blueside)/smacking random annoyances (redside), running missions, mostly solo but with the occasional PUG. I have 1 50/Incarnate and too many alts. 

 

I do not have the head for/concentration or inclination for analyzing my game play on the level folks in this discussion do. I read the threads to perhaps pick up what crumbs my brain can absorb and have thereby improved what I can do solo (and my sporadic team participation) from it.

 

But I am shaking my head almost sadly at how definitively some folks state what options currently available should be "destroyed" for everyone.

 

I don't understand how something like emailing inspirations, or according to some, inspirations period, can be game-breaking. How is my use of anything the game offers breaking someone else's game???

 

I don't get it.

It's the "everyone should play the way I play" mentality that shows itself on these threads sometimes.

[arcane]

15 minutes ago, momentarygrace said:

 

9001% nope.

 

Full disclosure - I read threads like this but the whole discussion is hundreds of floors over my head. I'm what I guess you could call a casual, but hopelessly devoted player since Issue 3 or so on live. When CoX was shut down, I lost something I never ceased to mourn for, and having it back has improved my mental and emotional well-being by volumes. I love creating characters, mostly heroes, but I do have villains and did do Praetorians when they first appeared, because they were there.

 

I love having super powers, or skills, or whatever the character's theme might be and saving random citizens (blueside)/smacking random annoyances (redside), running missions, mostly solo but with the occasional PUG. I have 1 50/Incarnate and too many alts. 

 

I do not have the head for/concentration or inclination for analyzing my game play on the level folks in this discussion do. I read the threads to perhaps pick up what crumbs my brain can absorb and have thereby improved what I can do solo (and my sporadic team participation) from it.

 

But I am shaking my head almost sadly at how definitively some folks state what options currently available should be "destroyed" for everyone.

 

I don't understand how something like emailing inspirations, or according to some, inspirations period, can be game-breaking. How is my use of anything the game offers breaking someone else's game???

 

I don't get it.

Effectively having an inspiration tray with more than 20 slots while in a mission is pretty damn broken.

[PeregrineFalcon]

18 minutes ago, arcane said:

Effectively having an inspiration tray with more than 20 slots while in a mission is pretty damn broken.

Are you a game developer? Is my having a couple of inspirations in my email wrecking your game? Is it affecting your paycheck?

 

Not picking on you specifically Arcane, but what is it with you internet Karens now days? "The game's in a good spot so let's see if we can talk the devs into nerfing some stuff. That'll show those filthy players! And your little dog too!"

 

Geez. You all got your Hard Mode, remember? After years of thread after thread after thread where you all tried desperately to nerf my characters, and make the entire game much harder, you finally got your Hard Mode. Now please, go play your Hard Mode and stop trying to get stuff nerfed!!!

 

Man, it's too early in the morning and I haven't had enough coffee. I really need more coffee. And why is there no angry face emote? Oh, I can't have an angry face? Might offend someone, huh?

[Elmyder]

31 minutes ago, momentarygrace said:

I don't understand how something like emailing inspirations, or according to some, inspirations period, can be game-breaking. How is my use of anything the game offers breaking someone else's game??? 

 

I think insps are game breaking in their current state because the stats they provide compare to stats provided by other buffs in the game, and also relative to the stats necessary to nullify game mechanics. If you use inspirations in the right way, you can effectively ignore most mechanics in the game. Even if you forget about supers and email and only rely on drops, my /fire blasters with absolutely no meaningful defensive layers can *usually* survive in level 54 mobs by killing fast and eating every inspiration the moment it drops. 

 

I sometimes joke that if everyone bound their move keys to "inspexecslot 1$$inspexecslot 2" (or similar) then they would automatically be much stronger, but tbh this is effectively how I play in casual runs, and I actually think it is good lol. 

 

Nevertheless, I am not calling for any nerfs and don't really expect any outside of new upcoming challenge settings. I certainly don't think anyone ought to play like me (it is not even fun unless you are a weirdo like me lol). My evaluations are just my opinion, but that is what the opinion is based on. 

[arcane]

You know, if common sense is equivalent with Karenism, then it’s not an insult anymore. Sounds like everyone needs to get Karening frankly.

 

Believing an MMO can achieve a harmonious balance without ever nerfing anything ever requires a similar lapse of judgement as believing societal utopias are a realistic possibility. Woefully one dimensional tbh.

Edited January 5, 2022 by arcane

[Bionic_Flea]

21 hours ago, macskull said:

the only power I can think of off the top of my head where end/tohit/def might be a useful enhancement pick is Invincibility.

[Farsight] and [Mind Link] would be good candidates as well.

 

Back to the OP, I think there are many ATs and combos that can solo Recluse and Ms. Liberty depending on how you play them.  But I agree with others that it's probably not worth the hassle or expense of making something just to get HOs solo.  Just listen for others running those, ASF, and Hammy raids and/or start your own.

 

Protip: If you are going to run them, try to run them back to back and include the ASF without the extreme challenge levels.  You should be able to get 3 HOs in 60-90 minutes.

 

Finally, regarding inspirations, I think that the standard 20 or less you can carry are fine and that e-mail is an exploit that doesn't need to be fixed.  I'm not competing with anyone but the game and myself (as opposed to PvPers or Speed Runners) and while I generally don't use e-mail inspirations, I have definitely used them on several occasions to get a rez or whatever was needed to finish a mission after hitting a hard spot.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Bionic_Flea

[Sovera]

On one hand 'dev's time is precious and should be husbanded like a rare resource' on the other 'getting insps from mail should be stopped because 0.1% of the population does that.... when they solo... How dare they...'

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

You know, if common sense is equivalent with Karenism, then it’s not an insult anymore.

What's "common sense" about trying to get something nerfed that isn't broken and isn't breaking anything?

 

I equate your attempt to balance the game (in this instance) by forbidding inspirations in email with the neighborhood busybody who calls the police because a couple of 8 year old children have opened a lemonade stand in a residential area without a business license.

 

Is that technically a violation of the rules? Sure. But who benefits when the cops show up and shut down a lemonade stand and tell those kids that they can't sell lemonade without a license?

 

Who benefits from that?

 

I know that Karen gets a warm fuzzy feeling when she sees the sad looks on the faces of those kids when the cops close that lemonade stand down. Is that what you call common sense? I call that schadenfreude.

[momentarygrace]

2 hours ago, arcane said:

Effectively having an inspiration tray with more than 20 slots while in a mission is pretty damn broken.

 

I'm still not getting any clue as to how that is breaking the game for you. You don't think it's a good idea, don't use it.

 

Since it is beyond unlikely that you and I will ever team together or otherwise encounter each other, and since I in no way find the game to be broken by this, we can agree to disagree forever. I officially agree to that.

 

Making broad absolute statements where opinion is given as fact are game-breaking for life in general IMHO. 

[Bill Z Bubba]

Ya know, something can be broken and still not be broken enough to bother fixing. Reality ain't a Chess board.

[arcane]

28 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

What's "common sense" about trying to get something nerfed that isn't broken and isn't breaking anything?

 

I equate your attempt to balance the game (in this instance) by forbidding inspirations in email with the neighborhood busybody who calls the police because a couple of 8 year old children have opened a lemonade stand in a residential area without a business license.

 

Is that technically a violation of the rules? Sure. But who benefits when the cops show up and shut down a lemonade stand and tell those kids that they can't sell lemonade without a license?

 

Who benefits from that?

 

I know that Karen gets a warm fuzzy feeling when she sees the sad looks on the faces of those kids when the cops close that lemonade stand down. Is that what you call common sense? I call that schadenfreude.

I think you might be sensationalizing things a little bit. You seem to be reading a lot of malice into my opinions just because you disagree with them.
 

I disagree that, when I express that a mechanism for circumventing the game’s limit on an item is kind of clearly an exploit, that I am stomping around kicking over lemonade stands and acting as some sort of fun police.

[arcane]

27 minutes ago, momentarygrace said:

 

I'm still not getting any clue as to how that is breaking the game for you. You don't think it's a good idea, don't use it.

That’s not how video games work. “Opt out if you don’t like it” is a completely nonsensical design philosophy.

 

Do I really need to list a dozen obviously broken things and then sarcastically state “don’t be a part of it if you don’t like it” to demonstrate how illogical that is, or can we admit that game developers actually pursue balance for real reasons.

[arcane]

6 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Ya know, something can be broken and still not be broken enough to bother fixing. Reality ain't a Chess board.

That’s an option too.