Can anything solo LRSF/Miss Liberty TF?

[macskull]

6 hours ago, Aurora_Girl said:

I would venture to say the only reasons those particular Hamis are so expensive is the speed run crew. 

If you're referring to microfilaments I'm not really sure there. It's really easy to hit the new runspeed cap without excessive slotting - two 50+5 travel/end in Super Speed, a 50+5 runspeed in Swift, and a 50 travel/end in Sprint gets you just over the cap without any outside bonuses - and the speedrun meta has shifted in favor of the teleport pool which gets no benefit from microfilaments. An argument could be made for PvP builds since diminishing returns requires players to seriously overslot speed even get close to the new higher caps. Microfilaments have been the most expensive item in the game since Homecoming's launch and I don't really see that changing anytime soon.

 

6 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I really wish someone had pointed this out to me before now.

Yeah, I'm a cheap bastard and don't see the point in spending 40 million on a single slot when 6 million gets me 99.4% of the enhancement value. If I really want to eke out every bit of performance I can get for a PvP build and I already have one in base storage somewhere I might consider it but probably not even then.

[nihilii]

12 hours ago, macskull said:

And let's be real here - with the multitude of ways to very quickly get to one's SG base and back to a mission inspirations are functionally infinite anyways.

 

I think there is a large difference in practice with email insps specifically. Can't just go to your base in the middle of an iTrial for example, and even in stuff like LRSF/MLTF, doing that will let AVs regenerate. The gamebreaking part of email insps is not the ability of insps themselves to temporarily put you at the cap as much as the email ability to be at the cap *for as long as you need*.

 

The infinite part that's really the rub here is time/permanence, rather than quantity. Email bridges the only remaining balancing factor to inspirations.

Much of the game is arguably "broken" from a game balance perspective. But email insps are BROKEN, in all caps.

 

(It doesn't help that it encourages boring prep work for temporary resources, in a game that is defined by pick-up-and-play gameplay. It's like the antipattern of CoH, only shared with shivans and warburg nukes.)

Edited January 4, 2022 by nihilii

[tidge]

I want to offer some slightly different perspective on a couple of points. I want to note that I don't play solo speed runs for 50+ content. Consider my quotes as recognition that these are valid points, but not ones I think are universally applicable.

 

20 hours ago, Andreah said:

I'd be on board with at least making it impossible to claim anything from emails while inside missions.

 

I'd vote "NO" on that. I put the resurrection Inspirations in email (after turning them off as drops), for myself and teammates. I play a LOT of low level content with teams at very high difficulties and not having to rely on hospitals, SG rezzes, teammate powers or temp powers keeps us all active for as much as possible. running back to a Hollows mission after a nasty defeat WAS part of the LIVE game, but there isn't much charm to it.

 

14 hours ago, macskull said:

EDIT: In response to OP, though - if you're trying to come up with a character that can solo the MLTF because you think Hami-Os are expensive, you're going to lay out a whole lot more inf building that character than you'd spend on the Hami-O's. For the vast majority of builds a 50+5 dual-aspect IO provides 99% of the enhancement value as a level 50 Hami-O for significantly cheaper. As a current example, a level 50 Microfilament (end/travel) runs 40 million inf and provides a 33.3% enhancement value. A level 50+5 Quickfoot end/run is 1 million at buy-it-now prices or 200k if you're patient, plus another 5 million for the 5 boosters which totals 6 million inf for a 33.1% enhancement value. Sure, if you really want to squeeze every bit out of that slot and you spring for a level 53 Micro it'll run you 150-160 million for 38.3% enhancement value, but is that 16% boost worth paying 2500% more?

 

I completely agree with the cost/benefit assessment, but I think part of the price difference between the two options presented here is that enhancements from the boosted Quickfoot will cut out below level 47, whereas the HO (combined or not) will also scale down below that. There is also an adjacent point about the HO boosting both run and flight speed, but I must admit I have put no thought into that myself. This is a subtle point about finances, but if someone is planning a separate specific build JUST for level 50+ content, it is likely that they will be spending lots of Inf anyway. I see nothing unusual or wrong with having such a dedicated build, but I do think that is a sort of luxury.

[Bill Z Bubba]

49 minutes ago, tidge said:

There is also an adjacent point about the HO boosting both run and flight speed, but I must admit I have put no thought into that myself.

 

And there it is. I stick lvl 53 Micro HOs in Quickness because it does boost both run and flight speeds and at least as per Mids, and it takes no sets.

 

My memory really is turning into swiss cheese.

 

Edit: Same goes for Sprint. The sets it can take don't buff both jump and run which sprint does.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Bill Z Bubba

[Bug You 2]

And Swift.

[arcane]

6 hours ago, macskull said:

Microfilaments have been the most expensive item in the game since Homecoming's launch and I don't really see that changing anytime soon.

It already did. Cytoskeletons cost more on the market now.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Grrrr... what the hell is the current fly speed cap since afterburner was turned into an inherent part of fly? I'm showing 82.95 mph with a 50+5 basic fly IO in Fly and a 53 Microfilament in Quickness. Unslotted my 50+5 basic run IO from swift, stuck in a lvl 50 Microfilament, fly speed is now at 83.93.

[Erratic1]

7 hours ago, Redletter said:

It's funny because Im a baby who looks at number streams and my brain turns to the same mashed potatos the game's code is made from.

 

Let me tell you about the early days of MUDs pre-MUD clients....

[Bill Z Bubba]

26 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Grrrr... what the hell is the current fly speed cap since afterburner was turned into an inherent part of fly? I'm showing 82.95 mph with a 50+5 basic fly IO in Fly and a 53 Microfilament in Quickness. Unslotted my 50+5 basic run IO from swift, stuck in a lvl 50 Microfilament, fly speed is now at 83.93.

 

 

Found this in the feedback thread. Anyone know if it's still accurate?

[Glacier Peak]

3 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

 

Found this in the feedback thread. Anyone know if it's still accurate?

The only thing off is that by using Takeoff, players are given a brief Leaping speed increase to around 110MPH.

 

Check out Boppers breakdown here: 

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

Yup, that covers it. Please email all +movement/endred special origin enhancements to @bill z bubba. Thanks much.

[Glacier Peak]

14 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Yup, that covers it. Please email all +movement/endred special origin enhancements to @bill z bubba. Thanks much.

The travel specific sets are pretty swanky too. I especially enjoy Warp!

 

[Bopper]

4 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

 

Found this in the feedback thread. Anyone know if it's still accurate?

Still accurate, but note the Fly Speed in that image is with afterburner active. If it's not active, the speed cap is 87.95 mph.

 

Also, the new Launch unique IO can increase your max jump height to 240 feet.

[macskull]

7 hours ago, tidge said:

but I think part of the price difference between the two options presented here is that enhancements from the boosted Quickfoot will cut out below level 47

Set bonuses, sure, but at least personally I am not too concerned with set bonuses in my travel powers. The enhancements themselves will continue to function no matter what level you exemplar down to.

[tidge]

Just now, macskull said:

Set bonuses, sure, but at least personally I am not too concerned with set bonuses in my travel powers. The enhancements themselves will continue to function no matter what level you exemplar down to.

 

Oh is this true? If so thanks! I agree that for one-slot pieces, the set bonus obviously doesn't come into play.

[macskull]

Yep, an enhancement is an enhancement and will continue to function (subject to enhancement scaling below level 32) as long as you aren't in a flashback/TF challenge setting that specifically disables enhancements. Only set bonuses follow the 3-level rule which means "special" or "proc120" enhancements like Kismet +tohit or Miracle +recovery will continue to function as well provided the power they're slotted in is available for use.

[macskull]

5 hours ago, arcane said:

It already did. Cytoskeletons cost more on the market now.

Ooh yeah, I forgot those have been going for a lot recently. Shows how much I've been ingame the last couple months. I can't figure that one out though, the only power I can think of off the top of my head where end/tohit/def might be a useful enhancement pick is Invincibility. No idea why the level 53s are going for 200-300m.

[Bopper]

12 hours ago, macskull said:

two 50+5 travel/end in Super Speed, a 50+5 runspeed in Swift, and a 50 travel/end in Sprint gets you just over the cap without any outside bonuses

If you're wanting to feel froggy, you can 3 slot superspeed with +5 boosted Thrust set and hit the speed cap without sprint. Or for an Endurance friendly approach, +5 Move/End, +5 Thrust's Run/End and +5 Run/unique. That'll get you to 119.5 mph with 66.3% end redux.

 

This all assumes a +5 Run IO slotted in swift.

 

I'd still keep the Sprint on tap for in combat speed if/when needed. The sprint, swift and thrust should have you around 48 mph in combat.

[Doomguide2005]

 

17 hours ago, tidge said:

 

 

I completely agree with the cost/benefit assessment, but I think part of the price difference between the two options presented here is that enhancements from the boosted Quickfoot will cut out below level 47, whereas the HO (combined or not) will also scale down below that. There is also an adjacent point about the HO boosting both run and flight speed, but I must admit I have put no thought into that myself. This is a subtle point about finances, but if someone is planning a separate specific build JUST for level 50+ content, it is likely that they will be spending lots of Inf anyway. I see nothing unusual or wrong with having such a dedicated build, but I do think that is a sort of luxury.

     ?

     As far as I know and understand it if you have a level 50+5 boosted  Quickfoot the enhancement bonuses do not cut out.  They scale (the individual attributes) like any enhancement will.  The set bonuses (if any) would drop and not apply below level 47 (3 levels below the enhancements level).  You also could not place (i.e. slot) such an enhancement until you were level 47 or greater.

     Have I misunderstood something or what you are saying?

 

Edit:  Heh, minus points for missing macskulls post upthread.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Doomguide2005

[tidge]

5 hours ago, macskull said:

Ooh yeah, I forgot those have been going for a lot recently. Shows how much I've been ingame the last couple months. I can't figure that one out though, the only power I can think of off the top of my head where end/tohit/def might be a useful enhancement pick is Invincibility. No idea why the level 53s are going for 200-300m.

 

Perhaps a Mastermind's Leadership toggle?

[macskull]

40 minutes ago, tidge said:

Perhaps a Mastermind's Leadership toggle?

Enforcers, possibly. I can see that being useful for maybe one slot to help boost their Manuevers and Tactics at the same time but the enhancement values from the level 50 boost those from 8.466% and 2.5% to 10.16% and 3%. A level 53 would make those numbers 10.41% and 3.08%. Not exactly worth that much inf.

Edited January 5, 2022 by macskull
Accidentally a word

[subbacultchas]

13 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Let me tell you about the early days of MUDs pre-MUD clients....

Using telnet protocol in the downstairs computer lab in the uni library. Sitting in the far back of course, hoping the techs didn't notice what you were doing.

Fun times, I'd occasionally dream in green text.

[Bill Z Bubba]

21 minutes ago, subbacultchas said:

Using telnet protocol in the downstairs computer lab in the uni library. Sitting in the far back of course, hoping the techs didn't notice what you were doing.

Fun times, I'd occasionally dream in green text.

 

Adventure on a Heathkit H89. Woot.

[Elmyder]

On 1/3/2022 at 4:40 PM, Shred Monkey said:

 

Using a work around to get virtually unlimited access to something that is not intended to be an unlimited resource is literally meeting the definition of game breaking.  

 

 

So first of all, I actually completely agree with this. Not only do I think emailing insps to yourself is game breaking, I believe inspirations themselves are game breaking. (My opinion, not necessarily shared by anyone I play with.) If any nerf was to come to inspirations, from merely banning email usage in missions, all the way to removing them from the game, I would accept it and rebalance my gameplay around it. I don't actually *like* inspirations mechanically (again, my opinion), because I'm naturally more a fan of leveraging mechanics in builds, but when it comes to speedrunning, as it is in the speedrunning community of any game, the spirit is to use everything available in the game, including exploits, to achieve the best possible time. Runs like this are done in the interest of fun, challenge, and competition, not in the interest of exploiting anything for in game benefits. I merely find it fun to challenge the limits of the game. 

 

I will note, with solo MLTF being a prime example, that the planning that goes into these runs and the concentration it takes to manage temps and inspiration chain effectively greatly exceed the benefit they provide. For instance, it took me much much longer to complete the run in the screenshot posted above than it would have taken me to join a pug and complete the task force. Not only is my solo time slower than most speed pugs, and the planning time longer, but you should also take into account runs that were messed up midway, at which point I would quit mid task force, restock insrpirations, go to bloody bay to restock shivans, go to warburg to restock on nukes, yadayada. Not to mention how the inspirations used each run have a large price tag in total.

 

On 1/3/2022 at 9:07 PM, Aurora_Girl said:

I would venture to say the only reasons those particular Hamis are so expensive is the speed run crew. 

 

So while I understand why you have this perspective, it's very far off base. With the above in mind, the kind of speedruns that exploit things like emailed inspirations are not only inefficient for farming rewards, they cost far far more in time and resources than they yield. That said, I do know people who speedrun task forces to farm merits and hami os. They do not chain inspirations, they do not use email exploits, temps, anything out of the ordinary. As that would be wasteful. They use optimized builds and knowledge of the game to complete the major endgame task forces in maybe 10-15ish mins a piece with mininal downtime between runs. 

 

But it would also be naive to suppose runs like this have anything to do with the economy. Just on the topic of hami os, hamidon raids are by and large the primary source of the supply, and the easiest way to acquire them. 

 

To answer the implied question directly though, cytos, micros, and nucleoli are expensive because they are optimal in many builds. The others are cheaper because they are used in far fewer builds. They all have the exact same rarity. 

 

In any case!

 

On 1/4/2022 at 3:03 AM, Redletter said:

Oh I wasnt actually picking on you, I have friends who speedrun and other sorts of competitive gaming, Im keenly aware that absolute command over the information being supplied you is directly tied to how you can afford to play, since that meta feedback is crucial to these things.

 

It's funny because Im a baby who looks at number streams and my brain turns to the same mashed potatos the game's code is made from.

 

Don't worry, I figured as much haha. I've seen my fair share of UIs that boggle my mind. One thing I love so much about this game is the extent to which I can customize it. 

 

On 1/3/2022 at 11:27 AM, Glacier Peak said:

Ah! Not familiar enough with the speed running community to know that. Either way, great job on your solo run!

 

No worries, and thank you! I'd really like to land a new i27 record of this and others. Hopefully not too long from now we can post new times. Coordinating with other plays on the necessary level is sometimes more of a challenge than the runs themselves xD. 

 

On 1/3/2022 at 4:42 PM, CienFuegos said:

two impressions from this 

1. wow elm/vera finally have another alt 

2.  very impressive run in 8 mins 53 seconds how many times is it repeatable?  or how many runs till it happened? 

 

I'm fairly certain that this team or similar could do repeated sub 10 runs at this point without much preparation. I also believe with the i27 changes and new knowledge that a faster time is possible. We have done these many times as both casual and serious practice, so it's hard to quantify "how many", but I want to say on the day this was our second or third attempt to break the previous record. 

[Shred Monkey]

2 hours ago, Elmyder said:

I believe inspirations themselves are game breaking.

 

Actually, I agree with this.  But they're a temporary boost, lasting just 1 minute each with a maximum inventory of 20.  So that's supposed to be balance out their power.  Allowing them to be emailed to yourself effectively removes the balance factor completely.  That is the bigger issue.  Rebalancing them by adjusting their boost value or duration might be a second thing to consider.

 

Also, just reiterating, I don't really care very strongly on this subject either way.  After all these years, I'm content with leaving the broken things broken.  But let's not pretend it's not broken.