About some complaints going around lately regarding the state of Homecoming development.

[Albion]

First and foremost, some may find this post tempting to start shit arguments, be so kind and keep it in your pants, I have enough of a reputation already, second, if reading this it comes as aggressive or some sort of server nationalism, that is on you not me, let us both strive to keep the exchange civil. That out of the way, to my concerns, from some weeks to date I have seen an increasing number of very vocal complains that almost always go "why can't Homecoming add neat things as x server" followed sometimes by a tirade of hurt sentiments because what you are being granted out of other people sustained efforts is not what you imagine in your head. So I wonder, is this a generalized sentiment or just few very vocal people? do we really need some adornments that badly over foundational solid improvements? would that change the whole population dynamics as some claim? (have not seen that approach working for others really) do those who hold these views not really realize the colossal amount of changes, reformation, amendments and augmentation the core of the game itself has been getting around here? or they just simply don't care and want flashy things? it is necessary to give them that? Just some food for thought to get an idea of where are we standing, of course this is among us all the players, pretty sure the Devs know what they need to do and will do it regardless rolling eyes and tantrums, as I have said before, it hurts my heart not having multiple body part auras (yes I am absolutely tacky and baroque) but can live without it, more so when I can feel how much better the game is working each month. Feel free to share your opinion.

[biostem]

The grass will always appear greener on the other side of the fence.  People will see how some other server has completely opened up the costume editor, or maybe that they've opened the floodgates to new ATs and different powersets/combinations.  The question is whether you want to take the turtle approach, like HC, and roll things out carefully and after much testing and debate, or quickly, hoping the number of bugs or glitches don't mess things up too much, and roll things back as needed.  I don't think the sentiment is that strong overall, here, though...

Edited January 23, 2022 by biostem

[Greycat]

It's a question of server philosophies.

HC's trying to show themselves to be good, thoughtful stewards of the game.

 

Others like throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks (and what bursts into flame.)

 

 

[ranagrande]

Each of the different servers out there has cool stuff that the others don't.  You've just got to decide which one is best for you.

[wjrasmussen]

1 hour ago, Albion said:

First and foremost, some may find this post tempting to start shit arguments, be so kind and keep it in your pants, I have enough of a reputation already, second, if reading this it comes as aggressive or some sort of server nationalism, that is on you not me, let us both strive to keep the exchange civil. That out of the way, to my concerns, from some weeks to date I have seen an increasing number of very vocal complains that almost always go "why can't Homecoming add neat things as x server" followed sometimes by a tirade of hurt sentiments because what you are being granted out of other people sustained efforts is not what you imagine in your head. So I wonder, is this a generalized sentiment or just few very vocal people? do we really need some adornments that badly over foundational solid improvements? would that change the whole population dynamics as some claim? (have not seen that approach working for others really) do those who hold these views not really realize the colossal amount of changes, reformation, amendments and augmentation the core of the game itself has been getting around here? or they just simply don't care and want flashy things? it is necessary to give them that? Just some food for thought to get an idea of where are we standing, of course this is among us all the players, pretty sure the Devs know what they need to do and will do it regardless rolling eyes and tantrums, as I have said before, it hurts my heart not having multiple body part auras (yes I am absolutely tacky and baroque) but can live without it, more so when I can feel how much better the game is working each month. Feel free to share your opinion.

I don't trust any player base to make such design choices as a general rule.

[Parabola]

Complaining about a free server and comparing it to other free servers that nothing in the world is stopping a person from joining instead is really bizarre behaviour. As said above HC are going for 'as live' stability, other servers aren't. People just need to pick their poison.

[DoctorDitko]

I think the HC devs are doing much better than the Live devs ever did. My guess would be the freedom from executive interference has let them concentrate on what's best for the game, which isn't necessarily the same as what's going to most please the players. Other servers seem to be more focused on what the player-base wants. I look forward to seeing the results in the middle term.

But my money's on the HC approach. (Literally, if I can hit the donation window!)

[Solarverse]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

It's a question of server philosophies.

HC's trying to show themselves to be good, thoughtful stewards of the game.

 

Others like throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks (and what bursts into flame.)

 

 

 

Exactly. To add to this, people don't want these things as badly as they want population and some remnants of balance. For an example, the amount of people who just want to be level 50 without having to work for it all, could easily have that on We Have Cake server. They can have instant level 50's, fully incarnate, fully IOed build AND farms that have no aggro limit., along with a few power sets that we don't have on Homecoming. Yet, they are still here, sitting in AE missions filling local chats with their pleas for power levels. Yet instead of going to We Have Cake server, they chose to stay on Homecoming.

There is a reason for this. Homecoming has the atmosphere and just enough progression/balance to keep people here.  People who complain that HC doesn't have this or that, still chose to remain here and that speaks volumes in itself.

[Solarverse]

18 minutes ago, DoctorDitko said:

I think the HC devs are doing much better than the Live devs ever did. My guess would be the freedom from executive interference has let them concentrate on what's best for the game, which isn't necessarily the same as what's going to most please the players. Other servers seem to be more focused on what the player-base wants. I look forward to seeing the results in the middle term.

But my money's on the HC approach. (Literally, if I can hit the donation window!)

 

Agreed, the only thing I have seen HC do that I am not a fan of, like at all, is their nerfs to sound effects. But that is not enough on its own to get me to go to another server. They still have that level of responsibility that overcomes their nerfs to sounds, so I am still here. I take breaks sometimes when a sound nerf pisses me off, but like a good spouse, I always seem to keep coming back when I get over it, lol.

[Clave Dark 5]

"Nerfs to sounds"?

[Solarverse]

11 minutes ago, Clave Dark 5 said:

"Nerfs to sounds"?

I have a thread on it in my sig. There have been others since then, but the particular one in the sig should cover the gist of it. The Elec Toggle AoE on Blasters is just the most recent.

[ChzBoi]

4 hours ago, Greycat said:

...... like throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks (and what bursts into flame.)......

 

 

Just here to say: if your spaghetti has the possibility of bursting into flames, you may be cooking it incorrectly.....or use a different wall...... 😋

[srmalloy]

4 hours ago, wjrasmussen said:

I don't trust any player base to make such design choices as a general rule.

And turning design decisions into popularity contests is how we got Boaty McBoatface and all the spinoff spoofs.

[TheOtherTed]

5 hours ago, Albion said:

keep it in your pants

...we're supposed to be wearing pants?

[SuperPlyx]

35 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

how we got Boaty McBoatface and all the spinoff spoofs.

And my Invul tank: Tanky McTank....he's awesome, btw.

 

[Hyperstrike]

Some people find flash, and pop, and bling, etc, etc to be the greatest thing EVAR!

I'm a MUCH bigger fan of the best customization of all.

STABILITY!

[The_Warpact]

A prefer the common sense or realistic approach.

 

People will complain about anything. (Basically look at the world today)

 

These same people aren't the ones sacrificing their personal time, effort, and life to provide something to people they don't know. The devs aren't beholden to us at all.

 

There is a reason we have the highest population, quality product/service garners the best results. Who wants all the stuff but can't play because of stability issues. 

I'm sure god mode gets boring pretty quick, there is no incentive to play when everything is handed to you.

 

Now this is the dad in me, "if ya don't like it, then don't let the door hit your ass on the way out".

 

 

Final please, please, for the love of pete put some spaces in that wall of white.

[flinlock]

4 hours ago, wjrasmussen said:

I don't trust any player base to make such design choices as a general rule.

100%. I read a great article from a game dev once, discussing how game design is often counter-intuitive in terms of what makes games fun and engaging, replayable, etc. Can't find the article for the life of me now, but the jist was that "if you give players exactly what they say they want you'll have a dead game on your hands." A big challenge of game dev is learning to read between the lines of player feedback... and sometimes knowing which loud voices to tune out. Satisfied players rarely make time to provide feedback because they're having too much fun playing the game instead. 

 

3 hours ago, DoctorDitko said:

I think the HC devs are doing much better than the Live devs ever did.

Overall I agree, they're doing an incredible job. I personally miss when the game was more challenging and punishing... but that's just a personal preference and I can still play plenty of challenging/punishing content (I just have to put more effort into finding it which is fine). 

 

Honestly, I think my biggest gripe is that all the costume stuff is unlocked by default from level 1 now. I really liked when capes and auras meant that you put in the effort to level up AND do the unlock missions. When you saw someone fully tricked out with rare costume pieces you knew they EARNED that shit. Now it seems silly to see someone with a fully decked out supreme costume, but they're brawling Hellions in Atlas Park. I remember on live it took me so much damn effort to unlock the Vanguard Redding Rifle and Rularuu bow for my blaster, and feeling so cool once I had them, and people sending me messages "OMG where did you get that bow?!"  To be fair, I think it was a good idea for HC to unlock all the costume stuff that was previously gated behind veteran rewards since "months of paid membership" is a thing of the past. But I still really like the idea of costume-related parts being locked behind achievements or tied to badges. I'd love to see some new costume pieces that are unlocked by 

 

.... but hey, if that's my biggest complaint, I'd say the HC team is doing an incredible job. They seem to understand that the community is a HUGE part of what makes this game so incredible, and you can't have a community without population and stability. And as others have said, some people may be complaining but they're still logging in to play here instead of on those "cool" other servers. 

[biostem]

5 hours ago, flinlock said:

I read a great article from a game dev once, discussing how game design is often counter-intuitive in terms of what makes games fun and engaging, replayable, etc.

 

That sounds very similar to the Paradox of Choice in that giving the players everything they ask for could backfire, as now they aren't happy playing what they have, because there are just too many options or they may hold off in hopes of getting their next idea implemented...

[Albion]

6 hours ago, TheOtherTed said:

...we're supposed to be wearing pants?

You are living the true life.

[Albion]

6 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

Final please, please, for the love of pete put some spaces in that wall of white.

Never, I play only heroes, this is my way of giving course to my inner evil.

[Greycat]

7 hours ago, ChzBoi said:

Just here to say: if your spaghetti has the possibility of bursting into flames, you may be cooking it incorrectly.....or use a different wall...... 😋

 

I like it spicy. *shrugs*  Occasionally that means spontaneous spaghetti combustion. :)

 

11 hours ago, wjrasmussen said:

I don't trust any player base to make such design choices as a general rule.

 

Well, technically the player base has been making those decisions, given the source of SCORE and HC devs, but that's nitpicking versus what you actually mean.

 

And yeah. We have a population. When I see some of the "make me uber" suggestions come through (even if that just means insta-50,) all I can think about is the "god mode" cheat codes on some games, which yes, *can* be amusing for a time... and then, at least for me, means I stop playing it for a while because it's lost all its interest.  (Other than tweaking medium laser values in Battletech so I can keep money in the bank, because that *far* outweighs Darius's constnat "We're nearly broke!" "Our nest egg is running low!" "We're almost out of cash!" No we're not, we have several million in the bank, shut up!)

[kwsapphire]

1 minute ago, Greycat said:

When I see some of the "make me uber" suggestions come through (even if that just means insta-50,) all I can think about is the "god mode" cheat codes on some games, which yes, *can* be amusing for a time... and then, at least for me, means I stop playing it for a while because it's lost all its interest.  

 

There are some games I *only* like to play on "god mode," including Baldur's Gate, Civilzation, and Don't Starve, because generally I'm going for a different sort of challenge. In Baldur's Gate I set all my stats to 25 and give myself custom made overpowered gear, and use my companions as loot mules while I explore the world and role play without fear of death. In Civlization I build a custom map where I have all the resources, and I give myself loads of gold, so whenever another civlization makes demands of me I can just pay them in gold or resources (instead of tech) and not only beat them to the end of the tech tree, but also absorb all their cities with my amazingly high culture score, and have all my opponents showering me with kisses when I win.

 

I know for a fact I would NOT find such a god mode fun in City. I do enjoy just playing the game, but I know I find it more fulfilling when I have stuff to chase (badges, accolades, incarnate powers. etc.) My husband, on the other hand, doesn't like playing characters until they're level 50 and fully slotted. He then goes on to keep tweaking the build and get his incarnate powers, and he doesn't mind exemplaring down, but he doesn't want to have to "play" up to 50. He's also perfectly happy here on Homecoming, and while he thought the "We Have Cake" server was a neat idea, he's certainly not leaving HC for it. 😉

[The_Warpact]

20 minutes ago, Albion said:

Never, I play only heroes, this is my way of giving course to my inner evil.

Oh so you're a sadist are ya. Typical hero, "I promise when I shot a fireball up that thugs ass, he was *definitely * ported to the hospital "....bulllllllssssshhhheeeeettttttt.

[SeraphimKensai]

12 hours ago, biostem said:

The grass will always appear greener on the other side of the fence.

Assumed I was being summoned.

 

That aside, in regards to the thread, if someone is complaining they can step up and make their own server to see how it actually is. I have my own where I've tweaked some powers here and there to test some of the suggestions I've laid out here, but I'm not going to pretend like I actually know what the hell I'm doing, and it's Homecomings house here. 

 

As my dad once said (when I was 15) about his house if I didn't want to abide by his rules I could leave at any time and go get a job and get my own place.