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Curious about your point of view, which would be the most "pacifist" archetypes and powerset combinations?


Albion

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41 minutes ago, Peacemoon said:

Also don’t mix pacifist with bystander.

Actual pacifists are bystanders.

 

An actual pacifist doesn't commit violence because they don't endorse or condone violence. An actual pacifist doesn't go into dangerous situations and then help the people who are committing violence, or order them to do so, and then just stand back and watch the violence.

 

Someone who refuses to commit violence themselves while ordering others to do so is either a coward, a mastermind or a politician.

 

 

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I wonder if NOT being able to do significant damage qualified as a pacifist.  Is it the intent or the end results that counts?  My Illusionist does almost no damage with his Imaginary Wounds, and relies on Deceive to get the other guys to work it out.  He doesn't tell them to fight each other, but it just happens that they do.  Which brings up a sore spot - Why don't I get full Experience using Deceive?  I'm getting other guys to fight each other (not unlike a pet).  The risk is the same as when I set my phantoms on a mob.   And If I do some of the damage, I get only partial XP.  I find this game mechanic to be unfair.  I mean Charlie Manson got full credit, but deceived people to do his bidding...

 

Back to the topic:

A door sitter at a farm could be considered a pacifist AND do no damage - soaking up the XP, but not getting involved.

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I think a psy/kin troller has a lot of potential to be played that way. Screwing with people but in a 'not touching you!' way.

 

My bots/dark MM on live was a pacifist - his robots were autonomous beings and he was just following behind to keep things from going out of control. 

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27 minutes ago, Rishidian said:

Back to the topic:

A door sitter at a farm could be considered a pacifist AND do no damage - soaking up the XP, but not getting involved.

Willing beneficiaries of violence =/= pacifists 🙂 think the exploration badge xp point is the only one that passes the smell test.

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1 hour ago, Rishidian said:

I wonder if NOT being able to do significant damage qualified as a pacifist.  Is it the intent or the end results that counts?

The intent is what counts.

 

If someone pulls a knife and tries to stab you, and you take the knife away from them and throw them across the room, they aren't a pacifist, they tried to stab you! A person is a pacifist if they won't harm you, not if they can't.

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Like all belief systems, Pacifism has shades of grey.  It's a moral philosophy after all.  The most extreme version of this is absolute pacifism, which precludes any form of violence, even in self-defense. 

 

Another example of pacifism is conscientious objectors like Desmond Doss, a World War 2 medic who refused to kill enemy soldiers and didn't carry a weapon.  He won two bronze stars, was injured 4 times, and was awarded the Medal of Honor.

 

My suggestion would be a Mind/Empathy Controller.  The problem of course is that your single target hold and sleep do damage. but you could say the damage is non-lethal.  It'd be pushing the boundaries, but you could simply come up with your own code of honor and call it something other than pacifism.

  

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2 hours ago, Ignatz the Insane said:

Another example of pacifism is conscientious objectors like Desmond Doss, a World War 2 medic who refused to kill enemy soldiers and didn't carry a weapon.  He won two bronze stars, was injured 4 times, and was awarded the Medal of Honor.

 Nice.

In game this could be a Defender who just never blasts, but 100% support Defenders are a bit of a meme and you’re going against the synergy of the AT, so I would avoid personally. Too much of a performance hit. 
 

Arguably Controller of Mastermind can let you play closer to this style without hampering performance so drastically.


I think a pacifist Mastermind who focuses on supporting their team, but has guardians who defend them if they get personally attacked, is probably the route I would personally take. The pets can go into bodyguard mode which actually is very effective and making your character tougher whilst still sticking with the concept.

 

Controller pets are actually pretty aggressive and ‘off the leash’ so to speak. Also Mind Control involves a lot of psychic domination, which I don’t consider too pacifist!

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My Bots/Emp MM might qualify, she just goes for a walk with the bots and they attack anyone who attacks her first.  Or at least it works that way unless I start with Arcane Bolt or Pulse Rifle... but she does a heck of a lot of healing!

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Illusion/Empathy Controller with Concealment PP and Psionic Mastery Ancillary if you so choose.

 

Regarding any of Illusions that cause direct damage, Phantom Army, Phantasm, Spectral Wounds etc, they can all be argued that it's the target's mind causing the damage, not the Illusionist.

 

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22 hours ago, arcane said:

How about a tanker with no damage aura, no attacks, but Perfect Zingers in taunt aura and Taunt. Victory purely by discourse 🙂

 I give you . . . PACIFIC FLEA!  Ice/Ice tanker - He gives his friends invisibility, taunts, provokes, and intimidates bad guys, then lays down Ice Patch and Whirlwind to keep everyone from fighting and getting hurt!  When things get bad he can Hibernate, Phase Shift, Unrelenting, and Burnout to start it all again!

(PS - another full set of either Mocking Beratement for more defense and recharge, or Perfect Zinger for another psi proc goes in Pacify.  Mids wouldn't let me slot it, but I think it should be able to take taunt sets.  If not, just shuffle slots elsewhere.)

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.2.17
https://github.com/LoadedCamel/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Pacific Flea: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Ice Armor
Secondary Power Set: Ice Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Presence
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Frozen Armor

  • (A) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage
  • (3) Reactive Defenses - Defense
  • (3) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance

Level 1: Frozen Fists

  • (A) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
  • (5) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
  • (5) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage
  • (7) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
  • (7) Superior Gauntleted Fist - RechargeTime/+Absorb
  • (13) Superior Might of the Tanker - Recharge/Chance for +Res(All)

Level 2: Hoarfrost

  • (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal
  • (39) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance
  • (40) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime
  • (40) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime
  • (40) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance
  • (42) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb

Level 4: Chilling Embrace

  • (A) Pacing of the Turtle - Accuracy/Slow
  • (46) Pacing of the Turtle - Damage/Slow
  • (46) Pacing of the Turtle - Accuracy/Endurance
  • (48) Pacing of the Turtle - Range/Slow
  • (48) Pacing of the Turtle - Endurance/Recharge/Slow
  • (48) Pacing of the Turtle - Chance of -Recharge

Level 6: Combat Jumping

  • (A) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
  • (13) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 8: Wet Ice

  • (A) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 10: Taunt

  • (A) Perfect Zinger - Threat/Placate
  • (15) Perfect Zinger - Threat/Placate/Recharge
  • (15) Perfect Zinger - Threat/Placate/Recharge/Range
  • (17) Perfect Zinger - Accuracy/Recharge
  • (17) Perfect Zinger - Threat/Placate/Range
  • (19) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage

Level 12: Permafrost

  • (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
  • (25) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
  • (27) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
  • (27) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
  • (29) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
  • (29) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP

Level 14: Pacify

  • (A) Empty
  • (34) Empty
  • (34) Empty
  • (34) Empty
  • (36) Empty
  • (36) Empty

Level 16: Provoke

  • (A) Perfect Zinger - Threat/Placate
  • (19) Perfect Zinger - Threat/Placate/Recharge
  • (21) Perfect Zinger - Threat/Placate/Recharge/Range
  • (23) Perfect Zinger - Accuracy/Recharge
  • (23) Perfect Zinger - Threat/Placate/Range
  • (25) Perfect Zinger - Chance for Psi Damage

Level 18: Glacial Armor

  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
  • (31) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
  • (31) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 20: Ice Patch

  • (A) Endurance Reduction IO
  • (21) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 22: Invoke Panic

  • (A) Glimpse of the Abyss - Accuracy/Recharge
  • (36) Glimpse of the Abyss - Endurance/Fear
  • (37) Glimpse of the Abyss - Accuracy/Endurance
  • (37) Glimpse of the Abyss - Fear/Range
  • (37) Glimpse of the Abyss - Accuracy/Fear/Recharge
  • (39) Glimpse of the Abyss - Chance of Damage(Psionic)

Level 24: Grant Invisibility

  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 26: Energy Absorption

  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
  • (31) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
  • (33) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
  • (33) Power Transfer - Chance to Heal Self
  • (33) Power Transfer - EndMod

Level 28: Infiltration

  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 30: Misdirection

  • (A) Mocking Beratement - Threat/Placate
  • (42) Mocking Beratement - Threat/Placate/Recharge
  • (43) Mocking Beratement - Threat/Placate/Recharge/Range
  • (43) Mocking Beratement - Accuracy/Recharge
  • (43) Mocking Beratement - Threat/Placate/Range
  • (45) Mocking Beratement - Recharge

Level 32: Hibernate

  • (A) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime
  • (50) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime
  • (50) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance
  • (50) Preventive Medicine - Heal

Level 35: Phase Shift

  • (A) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 38: Super Speed

  • (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range
  • (39) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance
  • (46) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)

Level 41: Hasten

  • (A) Recharge Reduction IO
  • (42) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 44: Whirlwind

  • (A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge
  • (45) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown
  • (45) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 47: Unrelenting

  • (A) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 49: Burnout

  • (A) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 1: Brawl

  • (A) Empty

Level 1: Gauntlet


Level 1: Sprint

  • (A) Unbounded Leap - +Stealth
Level 2: Rest
  • (A) Empty
Level 1: Swift
  • (A) Empty
Level 1: Health
  • (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
  • (9) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
  • (9) Miracle - +Recovery
Level 1: Hurdle
  • (A) Empty
Level 1: Stamina
  • (A) Power Transfer - EndMod
  • (11) Power Transfer - Chance to Heal Self
  • (11) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
Level 38: Speed Phase

------------

 

 

Edited by Bionic_Flea
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I mean, you have your Kwai Chang Caine pacifist, from the old 1970's "Kung Fu" TV show.  He would fight of course, but it was never his first choice. 

And then you have your Robert Jordan / Wheel of Time / Tinkers, adherents to the "Way of the Leaf" who would run if they could, but if escape was impossible, would allow themselves and their entire families to be slaughtered rather than pick up a weapon or even swing a fist. 

 

One is vastly more practical in this game (and in real life) than the other. 

 

That said, you do you. Not realllly worth arguing too much back and forth what's a "true" pacifist.

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I made an ice/poison controller designed to contribute to the team just by standing around bad guys. It does exactly as advertised. There are other tools in my kit, but if I wanted to be completely passive and still be useful to the team, it can do the job.

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It's more about playstyle than archetypes and powers.  Any character should be able to get to level 50 without ever damaging an enemy, or teaming with players that damage enemies.  As mentioned, you can get some early xp from exploration badges.  If you've got Hide or Stealth, you can do paper/radio missions involving item retrieval.  In my experience, about a third of those can be completed without combat.  If you'd be forced to fight, leave and abandon the mission.

 

There's also another way:  Auto-complete a mission once every three days and claim your meager rewards.  This is very, very slow, but effective if you don't want to actually play the game.

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Stack as many fear powers in a build as you can, slot them without any damage procs, then just spam fear powers, over and over again, making them paralyzed with fear or fleeing with terror.  Take enough passive defensive powers (personal ff, phase, etc.) to cover your ass if it goes sideways.

 

It may annoy the crap out of your teammates, but it's completely non-violent! 

 

Actually... this sounds kind of fun... 😆

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Funnily enough, I have a character named "Pacifist Unit," an Illusion/Sonic controller, who does use the concept. "It's all illusory, I'm not doing anything at all to them!"

 

If we were to use the strictest interpretation of pacifism, though, it just cannot work. The definition of pacifism is "the belief that war and violence are unjustifiable," and most people who claim to be pacifists adhere to this rule, regardless of context. They will never fight back, even in self-defense, nor will they aid anybody participating in violence. So even if you rolled something like an Empathy defender and took no offensive powers whatsoever, only aiding allies, it still wouldn't be pacifism, because you're aiding the violence of your allies.

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On 2/9/2022 at 6:00 PM, Chrono-Bot said:

I think a psy/kin troller has a lot of potential to be played that way. Screwing with people but in a 'not touching you!' way.

I'm not touching you. I'm not touching you! I'm not touching youuuuuu!!

 

But you know what I am gonna do? I'm going to use my mental powers to conjure up monsters from the ID to torture you psychically until you collapse from the terror and exhaustion. Hope that doesn't cause you any lasting trauma or anything.

 

But I won't touch you physically, cause I'm a pacifist.  🤪

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4yzkefot3c

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Being constantly offended doesn't mean you're right, it means you're too narcissistic to tolerate opinions different than your own.

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2 hours ago, Cancrusher said:

Stack as many fear powers in a build as you can, slot them without any damage procs, then just spam fear powers, over and over again, making them paralyzed with fear or fleeing with terror.  Take enough passive defensive powers (personal ff, phase, etc.) to cover your ass if it goes sideways.

 

It may annoy the crap out of your teammates, but it's completely non-violent! 

 

Actually... this sounds kind of fun... 😆


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