Let's talk about melee cones, because I suck at them

[KaizenSoze]

I find melee incredibly cones very frustrating. I feel lucky if I hit two mobs, amazed if I hit three or more.

 

How do you line up your melee cones?

 

Where is the point of the cone in relation to your character? Should I be to the left of the mob or the right? Or dead center?

 

Example melee cones:

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=widow_training.night_widow_training.nw_eviscerate&at=arachnos_widow

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=pool.fighting.cross_punch&at=arachnos_widow

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

Use big cones. Skip fire breath. Generally speaking, I will attempt to put my center line directly into the middle of a pack and sidestep around so that I've got enemies behind the one I'm attacking. I've tried out cross punch/sweeping cross on many a character and always found it crap as a cone so I just treat it as a single target attack on those that kept it. If it hits more than the target, yay, bonus, but I ain't gonna work at it.

 

Cones like shockwave, otoh, are worth the extra positioning time to get as many as you can and if I'm running into a fight with it, I'll target someone at the back of the pack in the middle so as not to fire it off too early.

[KaizenSoze]

20 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Use big cones. Skip fire breath. Generally speaking, I will attempt to put my center line directly into the middle of a pack and sidestep around so that I've got enemies behind the one I'm attacking. I've tried out cross punch/sweeping cross on many a character and always found it crap as a cone so I just treat it as a single target attack on those that kept it. If it hits more than the target, yay, bonus, but I ain't gonna work at it.

 

Cones like shockwave, otoh, are worth the extra positioning time to get as many as you can and if I'm running into a fight with it, I'll target someone at the back of the pack in the middle so as not to fire it off too early.

I am quite handy with ranged cones, but there something about melee cones.

 

It's probably just expectations vs reality. I feel I am lined up well, but miss mobs that seem to me to be obviously in the cone.

 

I have tried practicing on the RWZ dummies and think I got it. Then wiff on mobs in missions.

There seems to be a sweet spot a step back from the target mob that works best, but is hard to gauge.

 

Which is why I was asking about where the point of the cone is in relation to the character.

[Snarky]

I have always run a lot of dark melee.  One of its major attacks is Shadow Maul, a melee cone.  This is the regular version of sands of mu p2w power.   This is a powerful but hard to use ability.   Generally you want to hit a mob dead center of a group that way the cone spreads out.  You are basically aiming a shotgun.  Aim for center mass and hope for the best

Edited May 7, 2022 by Snarky

[BZRKR]

I aim for the far side of a group, at the max range of the cone, if I aim at all.

The idea is that if your target is right next to you, they don't have to move far to swing the whole cone away from where you want it to go. By comparison, a target at the edge of the cone has to go farther to mess up your alignment. To illustrate, in the diagram below, we have a 90 degree arc that represents the Eviscerate (Widow_Training) power. You can see how the Red circle can move the arc of your attack more with the same distance traveled as the Green circle.

[Snarky]

Last thought.  DO NOT OVERTHINK IT!!!   DPS   per second.  every second you try to make it better is effectively a self imposed longer activation time.  pick a target you think is good, drop the hammer, move on.

[Cancrusher]

Yeah, just aim for the middle.  You'll usually get a fair number of them.  Sometimes you may just trim the edges of the herd.  Whateves.  Keep hammering those buttons and they go down eventually.

 

Also, over time you'll get more of a feel for how to use them.  Do a lot of solo radio/paper missions to practice, if you're feeling self-conscious about it.  You'll get the knack, eventually.

[Aracknight]

[Troo]

1 hour ago, BZRKR said:

I aim for the far side of a group, at the max range of the cone, if I aim at all.

The idea is that if your target is right next to you, they don't have to move far to swing the whole cone away from where you want it to go. By comparison, a target at the edge of the cone has to go farther to mess up your alignment. To illustrate, in the diagram below, we have a 90 degree arc that represents the Eviscerate (Widow_Training) power. You can see how the Red circle can move the arc of your attack more with the same distance traveled as the Green circle.

 

A diagram. You've out done yourself!

[Troo]

2 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

How do you line up your melee cones?

 

I thought i was target nearest, jump, then mash attack button.

[arcane]

Play tanks

[Snarky]

57 minutes ago, arcane said:

Play tanks

i play Brutes.  Tanks did need something.  But huge improved AoE?  Look, I understood the great Brute Fury nerf.  I accepted it.  I did not feel cheated.  But the generous AoE given to Tanks and a crap popsickle handed to Brutes?  F that.  I am still pissed.  

[Luminara]

4 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

How do you line up your melee cones?

 

By turning the team size up to x5.  Let the spawns do the work for you.

[Ukase]

5 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

I find melee incredibly cones very frustrating. I feel lucky if I hit two mobs, amazed if I hit three or more.

 

How do you line up your melee cones?

 

Where is the point of the cone in relation to your character? Should I be to the left of the mob or the right? Or dead center?

 

Example melee cones:

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=widow_training.night_widow_training.nw_eviscerate&at=arachnos_widow

https://cod.uberguy.net./html/power.html?power=pool.fighting.cross_punch&at=arachnos_widow

 

Just anecdotally, when using Fold Space - I saw how the mobs line up - kind of the same way the zombies spawn, all in a row, each one slightly diagonally to the left or right depending on your perspective. They are in a perfect position for a cone attack - once you get in position at one end or the other. 

Additionally, as I'm confident you know, a range enhancement will increase the distance from which you can use your cone - and thus, the width of the cone extends but only to a point, to a limit defined in the power's detailed info tab. It's not worth it to slot a range in all cases, but anecdotally, on my claws scrapper, it seemed to be worth it. 

[Riverdusk]

4 hours ago, Snarky said:

I have always run a lot of dark melee.  One of its major attacks is Shadow Maul, a melee cone.  This is the regular version of sands of mu p2w power.   This is a powerful but hard to use ability.   Generally you want to hit a mob dead center of a group that way the cone spreads out.  You are basically aiming a shotgun.  Aim for center mass and hope for the best

 

Well, to be fair, shadow maul is now a 120 degree arc (non-tanker version). Sands of Mu is still the 45 degree arc that shadow maul used to be back in the old days.  I find it super easy to hit multiples with shadow maul now.

 

As to the ones he's trying with, Cross punch is a measly 50 degree arc so that is going to just be a tough one to hit more than one with, eviscerate is 90 so a bit easier.  @Bill Z Bubbahas a point that using big cones is easy enough to be worth trying to leverage them against multiples.  Whereas a lot of times the small arc ones are more like single target with the occasional bonus of hitting something extra.  Best example of that is Katana's Golden Dragonfly with its whopping 20 degree arc.  I almost never bother treating that as anything more than just a single target attack.  If something just happens to line up perfectly and I actually hit 2 things with it, I go "wow, neato!"  For narrow arc melee cones that is the attitude I take.

[Spaghetti Betty]

I used to have a lot of trouble aiming melee cones too. Eventually I decided to practice using them in controlled scenarios before applying them in real fights.

 

If you're a Tank or Brute, this is really easy because of Taunt. Taunt a pack of -3s (this is the best threshold. If they're too low lvl they'll run away, but -3s should be safe for anyone), once they group around you, make your main target the furthest one away in the mob, and just try activating your cone until it goes off and hits a satisfactory amount of foes. Doing this enough has trained me to envision the range of most cones on the ground.

 

LoS and corner pulling will make it very easy to line up your cones.

 

And in a team situation? Just let 'er rip. Dont let it bother you too much. There's probably enough carnage going on.

[Yomo Kimyata]

How do I feel?

 

I love the 19 degree cones, like Headsplitter.  It's very satisfying to get that lined up to hit two or three knuckleheads.  I cut my teeth on Broad Sword back in the day, and always tried to make the most of it (anyone else remember slotting Centrioles to get range extension until they removed it?).

 

I like the 30 degree cones, like Shadow Maul used to be. Honestly, I'm not even sure I'm remembering that right, since CoD has Sands of Mu at 45 degrees.  But like the 19 degree powers it hit hard and it took a little bit of skill to line things up right.

 

I dislike the 50 degree cones, like Sweeping Cross.  These are the ones I have the most difficulty lining up.  Sweeping Cross in particular bothers me since it is a right hook so I always assume it's going to hit mobs on my right first and in fact frequently misses them since they are not within 25 degrees of center.

 

90 degrees is good.  120 degrees less so.  180 degrees is pretty great, since it's "Imma gonna take down everyone I can see!"

 

 

[Luminara]

40 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I cut my teeth on Broad Sword

 

Told you not to put that in your mouth.

[Yomo Kimyata]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

 

Told you not to put that in your mouth.

 

That's not what you said on the sex tape!

[Doomguide2005]

3 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

How do I feel?

 

I love the 19 degree cones, like Headsplitter. 

     Best crit ever!  Headsplitter vs a yellow con minion and red con lt back before IOs.  Hit em both and they all but exploded with the crit.

 

     And Claw's Shockwave with 3 Centrioles, lol 😆,  probably not the best slotting but damn that's one spawn swallowing huge arsed cone.

 

[SaintD]

I stick another mob between me and my actual target to try and ensure I get at least two hits, then forget about it.

[Clave Dark 5]

I often just button mash in combat, end up targeting a mob with just a sliver of health with a just-recharged T9 or something, but when I am actually trying to slow down a little and really careful aim, what I usually end up doing is start with a single target attack against someone near the center-front and then unleash the cone.  For ranged I often do sort of keep skirting around the outside of the mob trying to find a good angle.  But I do like being in the center of things and just mashingmashingmashing - which is problematic when I play squishies so much.

[arcane]

21 hours ago, Snarky said:

i play Brutes.  Tanks did need something.  But huge improved AoE?  Look, I understood the great Brute Fury nerf.  I accepted it.  I did not feel cheated.  But the generous AoE given to Tanks and a crap popsickle handed to Brutes?  F that.  I am still pissed.  

I just made my 15th tanker on Friday and it just so happens to be Dark Melee. And between having that 180 arc Shadow Maul, better radii, 6 damage procs in Touch of Fear and 5 in Shadow Maul, it’s not bad at AoE at all 😄

[Snarky]

Grrrrrrr

[tidge]

3 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Grrrrrrr