Is there such a thing as societal norms in CoH?

[Erratic1]

2 minutes ago, Krimson said:

Back on Live, my crew did Nightly ITF speed runs. We would join at level 35 because this ritual became an ongoing 50 Party. It took about 30 minutes because we all knew what to expect. 

 

I am infinitely more likely to want to join a kill all ITF than a speed one.

 

But I have been on speed ITF PUGs and they went perfectly fine.

[Solarverse]

On 6/5/2022 at 9:57 AM, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

I'm gonna go with this. It's a game. If you don't want to deal with the random, don't PUG.

 

I have to agree. I almost always form my own teams and I almost always run kill all missions/TF's and I almost always put the team together based on first come first serve basis. If I am not in the mood to form a team and I decide to join one, then I go with the flow of what the team leader wants to do, be it kill all or speedy. For me, it's a lot simpler to just follow team leader's lead than it is to worry about the small stuff. There are no rules for teaming, but there is a courtesy etiquette that I personally follow. If I don't like how a team is playing, I am free to leave at any time. If I form a team and a member of my team is rushing to the end even though I clearly state that we will be running kill most missions, I am free to kick said player from the team. That is the extent to any drama as far as I am concerned.

[Snarky]

4 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

We're all naked.

 

it happens sometimes

[Apparition]

1 hour ago, Krimson said:

I mostly PUG because even though I allegedly have friends on my Global list, most of those names stay dark grey. Even my search for Smashing Lethal helpers found people who never seemed to log in again. So PUG it is! Your friends won't be there for you, but the randoms will!

 

 

Tell me about it.  I have over 120 people on my global friends list.  Never see more than about 20 now.  Some days there are only a couple on.

[Andreah]

Most teams running at +4/x8 can handle having one character be really low and/or poorly kitted out. I've been on a few that turned out to be severely challenged, and sometimes I'm up to digging into my resources (like claiming team insps from email in quantity) to help carry it through, and sometimes I'm not.  Sometimes I'll drop with a thank you but I need to go. 

 

On a TF it's a more difficult decision because we can't replace dropped teammates. I think in the OP's case I would have stayed and seen it through to the end, and then one-starred a few folks. Next time I join a TF, if they're on it, I'll drop before they start.  Sometimes I wonder how often when a TF that was recruiting and filled suddenly needs one more before they can go if this is what's up. :D

 

I think the worst case of this I've encountered was joining a bait-and-switch quick Tinpex where the leader unexpectedly had set players debuffed/enemies buffed/etc settings as we started and when we figured this out he refused to make adjustments.  I and most of the team dropped. He called us out for being bad players in global chat afterwards -- that did not go well for him.  If you like a really hard fight, great, but let people know you're setting that up when you recruit. Similarly, if a leader is running a TF and wants the team to carry a lowbie/ungeared buddy along at +4, that's fine -- I might even join to help! But tell me so up front, and there may be other people who aren't in a mood or ready to help like that. They deserve to know before they're trapped by our own societal standards of behavior.

 

I suppose we do have minimal societal standards, but also, those aren't automatic in new people - we have to teach folks what expectations are and convince them they're reasonable. I try to check people out for levels and powersets and so forth when we start just out of curiosity. I suppose I ought to politely bring up the difficulty level more often when we're forming up based on what I see, but I don't like to be seen as a complainer. However, if it's not going to work at +4, we need to see that quickly and let people know. Even half way into the first mission "We're not going to do this at +4, we need to drop the TF, reform the team, and restart at a lower difficulty." If someone were to say that in the first mission of a TF going badly, I'd be happy to agree. I'd rather do 1/4 of it over than do the whole thing at 1/4 speed.

[Snarky]

We all know the math.  After you can survive, (whether that is -1/x0 or +4/x8) it is a matter of DPS.  I was on a casual Peregrine Mayhem last night.  Just 3 Brutes.  +4/x8  It was not a steamroll but we were grinding it pretty good.  Not fast. 

 

Having one or more "carries" on a team running hard content not only reduces DPS it can negatively impact the team as they try to buff/revive/support what is dead weight.  As the "carry" tries to help they go from dead weight to siphoning off team energy and focus. 

 

It is a very casual game, for me, at this point.  I play regular.  But it is just to have a bit of fun.  I will do whatever with whoever, unless they are being a troll.  No global ignore list for me.  If you decide not to be a troll the next time we meet thats a good thing.  So, if you are dead weight on my team it will take longer, or we fail.  slight sadness.  But I personally will not bring dead weight onto a team.  No promises about not throwing out a Snarky tm., pat. pend. comment here and there

[fitzsimmons]

TLDR; I created a post some time ago called “Paperweights”.  Got mixed results w.r.t the responses as this thread seems to have gotten.  Mostly unsupportive indicating that I was the problem.  I am a problem and I have problems.

 

Ukase and I are likeminded although I’m surprised he didn’t look at badges and accolades as well (a call back of sorts).

 

Regards,

Dave

[Ukase]

17 hours ago, Erratic1 said:

What server are you on?

Primarily, Excelsior. But I've got characters and bases everywhere except reunion. Reunion is where I transfer characters that I know I'll never play again, but don't delete them because just maybe, the devs may make a change to them that will make them more enjoyable. 

[Erratic1]

4 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Primarily, Excelsior. But I've got characters and bases everywhere except reunion. Reunion is where I transfer characters that I know I'll never play again, but don't delete them because just maybe, the devs may make a change to them that will make them more enjoyable. 

 

To paraphrase a line from David Lynch's Dune, "Many strange behaviors on Excelsior." 

[Ukase]

10 hours ago, Andreah said:

On a TF it's a more difficult decision because we can't replace dropped teammates. I think in the OP's case I would have stayed and seen it through to the end, and then one-starred a few folks. Next time I join a TF, if they're on it, I'll drop before they start.  Sometimes I wonder how often when a TF that was recruiting and filled suddenly needs one more before they can go if this is what's up. 😄

I have been one of those folks that suddenly dropped before a tf formed for numerous reasons: a gross name (like I want to see the words Teste, or Fart when I'm playing - no thanks.), a character who's obviously not capable of doing well for the challenge at hand. As an example:  a build without IO set bonuses for a master run and a very low badge count, with no passive accolades and I've never seen them in game before. That doesn't mean that these folks aren't up to the challenge, but in my estimation, the odds are against it. And, since it's my time and I don't want to waste it, I'll just drop and figure I'll get with a better team later. 

In this case, the circumstances just happened to be where I came late to the team and really didn't have much of an opportunity to assess, and candidly, I wasn't worried about anyone's build for a non-master run. My big thought about the whole thing was:
1. Why is this guy dying all the time? (that's an exaggeration, but it seemed every other mob) 
2. Huh? The dude is level 34? How...? 
3. Okay - dude isn't trained up - why not? And does it really matter why not? Ignorance is no excuse. It just means you're lazy and couldn't be bothered to figure things out. I know that's harsh, particularly if they're a new player who simply joined something out of curiosity. But..I mean, you knew enough to train from level 1 to 34...why stop there? The crazy thing is if they were trained up, I'd have just 1-starred them, with a note "this dude is either stoned, asleep or just woefully inadequate as a player".  Not saying I wouldn't have teamed with someone who died frequently, but I wouldn't team with them for a master run type of situation. 
But, seeing mid-tf that they never bothered to train, I make the note that the guy isn't trained up. 

The world never stopped turning over something like this. I'm just wondering if people think this is acceptable behavior. Some of you clearly do, and that's fine. But it's not okay with me. 

I've had challenge characters that could only slot what dropped, if they could use it. To make that challenge even harder, I never teamed with those characters because it wouldn't be fair to have other folks carry me along. I know it's not real money, but to me it's like going to a bar without bringing resources to pay for your drinks. You want to team up, great! Safety in numbers, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts - but not when you come to the table with less than what you should have. 

But, that's just me. My thoughts are not typical, clearly. 

[Erratic1]

14 minutes ago, Ukase said:

3. Okay - dude isn't trained up - why not? And does it really matter why not? Ignorance is no excuse. It just means you're lazy and couldn't be bothered to figure things out. 

 

Best I can come up with is it was someone who was in the process of being power leveled and did not have time to train before the TF was announced. 

 

Were it not a power level situation I could still see being short a level or two--the team is on a roll and you don't want to leave it, but at six levels I would think power level.

[Mopery]

55 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

To paraphrase a line from David Lynch's Dune, "Many strange behaviors on Excelsior." 

"Many bots."

Edited June 7, 2022 by Mopery
Shai-hulud demanded it.

[Mopery]

46 minutes ago, Ukase said:

I have been one of those folks that suddenly dropped before a tf formed for numerous reasons: a gross name (like I want to see the words Teste, or Fart when I'm playing - no thanks.), a character who's obviously not capable of doing well for the challenge at hand. As an example:  a build without IO set bonuses for a master run and a very low badge count, with no passive accolades and I've never seen them in game before. That doesn't mean that these folks aren't up to the challenge, but in my estimation, the odds are against it. And, since it's my time and I don't want to waste it, I'll just drop and figure I'll get with a better team later. 

In this case, the circumstances just happened to be where I came late to the team and really didn't have much of an opportunity to assess, and candidly, I wasn't worried about anyone's build for a non-master run. My big thought about the whole thing was:
1. Why is this guy dying all the time? (that's an exaggeration, but it seemed every other mob) 
2. Huh? The dude is level 34? How...? 
3. Okay - dude isn't trained up - why not? And does it really matter why not? Ignorance is no excuse. It just means you're lazy and couldn't be bothered to figure things out. I know that's harsh, particularly if they're a new player who simply joined something out of curiosity. But..I mean, you knew enough to train from level 1 to 34...why stop there? The crazy thing is if they were trained up, I'd have just 1-starred them, with a note "this dude is either stoned, asleep or just woefully inadequate as a player".  Not saying I wouldn't have teamed with someone who died frequently, but I wouldn't team with them for a master run type of situation. 
But, seeing mid-tf that they never bothered to train, I make the note that the guy isn't trained up. 

The world never stopped turning over something like this. I'm just wondering if people think this is acceptable behavior. Some of you clearly do, and that's fine. But it's not okay with me. 

I've had challenge characters that could only slot what dropped, if they could use it. To make that challenge even harder, I never teamed with those characters because it wouldn't be fair to have other folks carry me along. I know it's not real money, but to me it's like going to a bar without bringing resources to pay for your drinks. You want to team up, great! Safety in numbers, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts - but not when you come to the table with less than what you should have. 

But, that's just me. My thoughts are not typical, clearly. 

Consider the amount of time you've put into this post.

Is the game so difficult that everyone must be min-maxed and paying attention 110% of the time?

 

Just sayin, could be playin! 😁

[Ukase]

14 minutes ago, Mopery said:

Consider the amount of time you've put into this post.

Is the game so difficult that everyone must be min-maxed and paying attention 110% of the time?

 

Just sayin, could be playin! 😁

Fair point, but the servers are down presently. 

[Mopery]

51 minutes ago, Ukase said:

Fair point, but the servers are down presently. 

"Curses, foiled again!" - Snidely Whiplash

[arcane]

Not offering an opinion here on everything but some of y’all should really try minding your own business on teams and just clicking powers while near your group. Not caring deeply about the every action of 7 strangers is truly exhilarating. If someone dies too much, smile because (1) it’s not you and (2) veng bait. Unless you’re doing 801’s or MoMag badge runs or relentless ASF… none of it will matter in the end.

Edited June 7, 2022 by arcane

[Snarky]

5 hours ago, arcane said:

Not offering an opinion here on everything but some of y’all should really try minding your own business on teams and just clicking powers while near your group. Not caring deeply about the every action of 7 strangers is truly exhilarating. If someone dies too much, smile because (1) it’s not you and (2) veng bait. Unless you’re doing 801’s or MoMag badge runs or relentless ASF… none of it will matter in the end.

I started on Brutes.  This bit of wisdom is why I stay on Brutes.  I may be a bit slower but I can just settle into whatever is happening and keep grinding.  It is almost a pain for me on really good teams because they have done everything while I am still getting my bearings.  On crap teams I am the star player.

[biostem]

6 hours ago, arcane said:

some of y’all should really try minding your own business on teams and just clicking powers while near your group. Not caring deeply about the every action of 7 strangers is truly exhilarating

This isn't an all-or-nothing scenario we're dealing with here - it is ok to care what you're TEAM members are doing and to provide input on how they might be more successful with their play.  You don't have to be a jerk about it or domineering, but telling people to not provide any feedback at all and mind their own business is also counterproductive...

[Doomguide2005]

     If I join a PuG I'm mentally prepared for anything from smooth sailing to trainwreck in slo-mo.  

     If I need a team for whatever reason but not in the mood to handle a crazy train wreck I'll try my friends list first then decide how important it is right now.  Generally try this first regardless most times.

     If not interested in a PuG experience then there's about a gazillion options ranging from stocking IOs, playing the market, working on a solo project, creating a build etc.. till my mood or needs change.

    I like to have expectations stated up front but I also realize that while the star has the most control over a team they can only control so much so if its going sideways well I try to embrace the chaos and go with it.  I'm going to have fun either way.

[fitzsimmons]

1 hour ago, Krimson said:

You can have a PUG or you can have high expectations for a team. Pick one.

You should be able to have reasonable expectations though.  What’s unreasonable about expecting some putz to at least be at level.

 

It isn’t a farm.  Contribute.

[Rishidian]

Something to consider:

 

Half of your team is below average.

 

And...

 

Most of us are like the rest of us.

 

[The General]

Of all the MMOs out there designed and themed around being srs bsns...this one is the least. OP is talking about having to spend an extra...20 minutes? 30? To help out a lowbie. The horror, the horror, he must have ptsd now, etc etc.

 

If you wanna be a raging tryhard shouting at your teammates for not being good enough, go play a MOBA. This game ain't it for you, chief. 

[Darmian]

I'll take someone who, for whatever reason, might be genuinely struggling in a team, over the douchebag who doesn't listen and runs off. Yeah I'm looking at you, Mr. Bomb Exploder in the UG!  And was it you who used the grenades in Lambda?  I bet it was.  Stay away from ...oh, he's aggro'd all the DE in the DE Ripple in ASF.  Sigh.