issue 27 Focused Feedback: Toxic/Psionic Mitigation Changes

[Gobbledigook]

I don't really get why Invulnerability or Energy aura need any buffs at all. They are some of the toughest sets already.

 

Some sets mainly the defense ones with good DDR do really well in the toughest content and resist sets not as good. The tougher the content goes sets like Bio/wp will fail badly imo as the healing will not cope with the extra damage and the debuffs will just wreck them.

 

Maybe look at all the sets instead of buffing the ones that don't really need it as much.

 

 

[gameboy1234]

On 7/12/2022 at 11:06 AM, The Curator said:

Stalkers:

• Hide now grants Psionic and Toxic defense.

 

Could Widows get some of this?  Mostly Toxic resistance, I'm caped to Psi.  Maybe Toxic resistance and defense in Mask Presence, and some resistance in Foresight.  (Mind Link provides about 15% Toxic defense on my toon, so take that into account, I think the base defense is 10%.)

 

[InvaderStych]

On 7/12/2022 at 11:06 AM, The Curator said:

Invulnerability:

• Invincibility (Tanker/Brute/Scrapper) - This power now adds a 1.67% toxic and psionic defense for the first target, and 0.33% for additional targets (total 5% against 10 foes, Tanker values).
• Invincible (Stalker) - Renamed from "Reinforced". This power now adds 2.5% toxic and psionic defense.
• Invincible (Sentinel) - This power now adds 2.33% toxic and psionic defense.
• Unyielding (all ATs) - This power now adds 5% psionic resistance (Tanker values)
• Resist Energies (Tanker/Brute/Scrapper) - This power now adds psionic resistance.
• Environmental Resistances (Stalker/Sentinel) - This power now adds psionic resistance.
• Unstoppable (all ATs) - This power now adds 45% psionic resistance (Tanker values).

 

 

Are these improvements carried over to the NPC versions of Unyielding and Unstoppable?

[Coyotedancer]

As if the NPC version of Unstop needed anything to make it more of a pain in the neck... 😝

 

I'm going to do some running around this afternoon with my regen-monster Bio brute and WP characters to see how they handle with the changes. 'Should be interesting.

[carroto]

On 7/16/2022 at 7:43 AM, Gobbledegook said:

I don't really get why Invulnerability or Energy aura need any buffs at all. They are some of the toughest sets already.

 

The way some sets are so binary, hot/cold when running most content and then when running into toxic or psi is what turned me off of my ice armor and EA characters (never played invuln) and got me to reroll them and shelve them permanently.  I realize many people aren't bothered by it and take the nakedness against not-actually-all-that-uncommon damage types in stride, but it doesn't work for me.

 

These seem more like token buffs rather than really substantial ones, that won't really change the experience much.  They'll mostly be a help to people using IOs to try to plug those holes.  I doubt they'll be felt in game during normal gameplay at all.  I'm surprised to see people saying they're too much.

[Marbing]

1 minute ago, carroto said:

I'm surprised to see people saying they're too much.

They may not be too much in and of themselves, but I think many are more of the mind that they are too much given that the sets that didn't have these holes didn't receive any compensation for the holes that they do have. 

[carroto]

3 minutes ago, Marbing said:

the sets that didn't have these holes didn't receive any compensation for the holes that they do have.

 

Like what?  1% end drain resistance?  Not trying to be snarky, but I honestly don't get the claim that these minor buffs mean that other more well-rounded should also get token buffs.

[Marbing]

Just now, carroto said:

 

Like what?  1% end drain resistance?  Not trying to be snarky, but I honestly don't get the claim that these minor buffs mean that other more well-rounded should also get token buffs.

Like Dark Armor having no KB protection, that's a hole, for example that didn't get touched. While Ice/EA/Invuln all already performed very well in all content (being also fairly well rounded in their own right) got a slight buff. 

I don't mind the change at all. Just didn't think these sets needed it. I was just trying to offer an explanation as to why some people might be against this change, that's all. 

[Erratic1]

14 minutes ago, carroto said:

 

Like what?  1% end drain resistance?  Not trying to be snarky, but I honestly don't get the claim that these minor buffs mean that other more well-rounded should also get token buffs.

 

More well-rounded? Invulnerability and Energy Aura are considered amongst the best sets in the game. Compare how often you see in game or in forum discussions Ninjitsu or Electric Armor and it's not even close because people far more gravitate to Invulnerability and Energy Aura than those latter two.

[carroto]

1 hour ago, Erratic1 said:

More well-rounded?

 

1000% more well-rounded, yes.  Of those you called out what holes does Elec have?  Ninjitsu covers everything except KB.  The amount of slot and IO investment to cover that hole relative to other sets' holes is not in the same galaxy.  Nin even has confuse protection.  It's probably not talked about because it's not available on two of the three most popular melee ATs.  It's a great set an a great example of a well-rounded set.

 

As for the popularity of the sets with those holes like Invuln and EA, we'll see if that changes a few months down the line after this page gets released.  The changes to defense in this release making smashing/lethal defense somewhat less valuable as catch-alls might affect those sets to some degree.  EA could get hit more by negative attacks, for example, which the S/L defense would have caught in the past.  Might not feel quite so strong in quite as much of the game's content.  Or not, we'll see.  It seems like the jury's still out on how much of an impact that will have in actual play.

[Erratic1]

Just now, carroto said:

 

1000% more well-rounded, yes.  Of those you called out what holes does Elec have?  Ninjitsu covers everything except KB.  The amount of slot and IO investment to cover that hole relative to other sets' holes is not in the same galaxy.  Nin even has confuse protection.  It's probably not talked about because it's not available on two of the three most popular melee ATs.  It's a great set an a great example of a well-rounded set.

 

Electric does not do anything against Toxic, something Unyielding provides Invulnerability and Energy Protection provides Energy Aura already. 

 

The fact that you use the word, "except" means Ninjitsu doesn't cover everything. Its status protection is a click power with longer base recharge than its duration so (a) you must spend slots to get to permanent coverage which most other sets have and therefore do not need to waste slots on, (b) if you do so you have to set it as your auto-click power--again something auto/toggle sets do not have to do, and (c) when it triggers its animation will interrupt anything else you were doing, let trying to beat opponents into submission before they do so to you.

 

Last I looked Scrapper are a popular AT. You do not see a wealth of Ninjitsu scrapper running about. Heck, I am not even sure you see a wealth of Ninjitsu Stalkers running about.

 

Just now, carroto said:

 

As for the popularity of the sets with those holes like Invuln and EA, we'll see if that changes a few months down the line after this page gets released.  The changes to defense in this release making smashing/lethal defense somewhat less valuable as catch-alls might affect those sets to some degree.  EA could get hit more by negative attacks, for example, which the S/L defense would have caught in the past.  Might not feel quite so strong in quite as much of the game's content.  Or not, we'll see.  It seems like the jury's still out on how much of an impact that will have in actual play.

 

The reporting in this thread suggests otherwise by people who have tested it. Or maybe I missed the, "I got wrecked" posts because of all of the, "Not a big deal posts" by those who have tested.

[Wavicle]

I question the PB psi res being in the toggle. It should be in Light Form, so that it's useful when in Dwarf.

[csr]

31 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I question the PB psi res being in the toggle. It should be in Light Form, so that it's useful when in Dwarf.

 

The only Psi Res I see on PBs is in Cosmic Balance (10% per damage dealer teammate).  I think Light Form getting it would be awfully nice, but it's a perma capable power with a reasonably manageable crash, so I don't think it's going to get it.  With the self-heal and Cosmic I doubt PBs are in line for a buff at this time.

Edited July 18, 2022 by csr

[Wavicle]

2 minutes ago, csr said:

 

The only Psi Res I see on PBs is in Cosmic Balance (10% per damage dealer teammate).  I think Light Form getting it would be awfully nice, but it's a perma capable power with a reasonably manageable crash, so I don't think it's going to get it.  With the self-heal and Cosmic I doubt PBs are in line for a buff at this time.

 

oh yea, my mistake, they were talking about PvP.

 

I think Light Form should have Psi res and I think WS Eclipse should have 3 points of mez protection.

[csr]

I think both PBs and WSs need more thorough revamps, including the addition of Patron Pools for each, more powers (particularly pool powers) usable in forms and probably a damage increase in general.

[BassAckwards]

Quote

• Ice Armor:
  • Energy Absorption (all ATs) - This power now grants Psionic and Toxic defense. Up-front defense increased from 1% to 4.5%. Per-target defense reduced from 0.6% to 0.25% (Tanker values). Total Defense at 10x targets remain the same.

 

Just FYI the changes to Ice Armor -> Energy Absorption do not appear to be reflected to Tanks. I have not tried other ATs on brainstorm yet. Still getting the same defense values from live.

 

I did confirm these were the numbers I was actually getting through use of the power as well with combat attributes.

 

Note: these are enhanced numbers with incarnates/IOs etc.

Edited July 20, 2022 by BassAckwards

[csr]

On 7/12/2022 at 11:06 AM, The Curator said:

Armor Set Toxic/Psionic Mitigation Changes

• Invulnerability:
  • Unstoppable (all ATs) - This power now adds 45% psionic resistance (Tanker values).

 

The mouse-over tool-tip info for Brute Unstoppable in the Enhancement Management screen does not include Psionic Resistance in the list for Buff/Debuff.  It also still lists "All DMG but Psionic" in the description header.  The Psi Res appears to be unenhanceable.  In the Detailed Info it shows the Psi Res as 33.75%, which is the base Brute value, despite my having +15.9% enhancement in it.  When I use Unstoppable I get that base, unenhanced 33.75% listed in the Combat Attributes.

[BrandX]

On 7/17/2022 at 4:17 PM, carroto said:

 

1000% more well-rounded, yes.  Of those you called out what holes does Elec have?  Ninjitsu covers everything except KB.  The amount of slot and IO investment to cover that hole relative to other sets' holes is not in the same galaxy.  Nin even has confuse protection.  It's probably not talked about because it's not available on two of the three most popular melee ATs.  It's a great set an a great example of a well-rounded set.

 

As for the popularity of the sets with those holes like Invuln and EA, we'll see if that changes a few months down the line after this page gets released.  The changes to defense in this release making smashing/lethal defense somewhat less valuable as catch-alls might affect those sets to some degree.  EA could get hit more by negative attacks, for example, which the S/L defense would have caught in the past.  Might not feel quite so strong in quite as much of the game's content.  Or not, we'll see.  It seems like the jury's still out on how much of an impact that will have in actual play.

 

As someone who's played Ninjitsu (and I love it, wish it had better DDR), the lack of KB protection in that set is not that bad imo.  Why?  Because it's a defense set.  Don't get hit by that knockback attack, don't get knocked back.  Pretty decent KB defense imo.

 

Now, in a set like DA where it's basically a resist set, a bit different.

[Jacke]

15 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

As someone who's played Ninjitsu (and I love it, wish it had better DDR), the lack of KB protection in that set is not that bad imo.  Why?  Because it's a defense set.  Don't get hit by that knockback attack, don't get knocked back.  Pretty decent KB defense imo.

 

Now, in a set like DA where it's basically a resist set, a bit different.

 

In a Launch Re-enactor group, I played a Claws/DarkA Scrapper without any KB protection.  My keybinds for "follow" and "targetenemynear$$follow" were good enough to keep him fighting as KB bounced me around the current fighting location.  It was crazy fun.

 

As an alternate Invasion, perhaps remove all KB protection to share the craziness around? 🙂

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, Jacke said:

 

In a Launch Re-enactor group, I played a Claws/DarkA Scrapper without any KB protection.  My keybinds for "follow" and "targetenemynear$$follow" were good enough to keep him fighting as KB bounced me around the current fighting location.  It was crazy fun.

 

As an alternate Invasion, perhaps remove all KB protection to share the craziness around? 🙂

 

KB has only bothered me when I've been chained for a minute of KB if not longer 😛 

[Captain Powerhouse]

20 hours ago, csr said:

The mouse-over tool-tip info for Brute Unstoppable in the Enhancement Management screen does not include Psionic Resistance in the list for Buff/Debuff.  It also still lists "All DMG but Psionic" in the description header.  The Psi Res appears to be unenhanceable.  In the Detailed Info it shows the Psi Res as 33.75%, which is the base Brute value, despite my having +15.9% enhancement in it.  When I use Unstoppable I get that base, unenhanced 33.75% listed in the Combat Attributes.

 

The Psi res in unstoppable is indeed unenhanceable. Will update patch notes to clarify.

[Generator]

If the intent is to make characters no longer be "naked" to certain attack types, will Electric Armor be getting Toxic?  I didn't see it in the notes above.

[Treacheres The Dastard]

On 7/18/2022 at 4:06 PM, Wavicle said:

 

WS Eclipse should have 3 points of mez protection.

I'd love to see some mez protection but Eclipse is already pretty wild. Maybe split it across the defensive toggles since those will be seeing a lot more use with suppression. Either way, I'd love to be able to pick a destiny power other than clarion while being able to function outside of dwarf turtling.

 

As for the matter at hand, my elec tank would love to have some help with Toxic. I suppose I like the idea of filling gaping resist gaps, as long as it's just a bit.

[FUBARczar]

On 7/13/2022 at 2:24 AM, nofx242 said:

So the sets that have good Psi protection don't get any buffs as well, that would help make them stand out in late game.  Sets like electric should get a bump up if other sets are now getting some psi protection.  At least give them some minor toxic protection like you have with these sets.

Electric definitely needs a bump.  

How about, at the very least, do something like moving the +Regen to grounded and turn Power Sink into Power Converter the drains end and converts it into an Absorption Shield.

[Stormwalker]

3 hours ago, Generator said:

If the intent is to make characters no longer be "naked" to certain attack types, will Electric Armor be getting Toxic?  I didn't see it in the notes above.

 

Given the rumors of /Inv and /Energy Aura types getting folded, spindled, and mutilated by Lord Recluse in closed beta, I suspect the changes are specifically intended to counter excessive vulnerabilities in those sets exposed by the attack type changes.

 

Has anyone been testing Electric Armor's performance in the beta with the attack typing changes?  If not, probably a good idea to do that.  If people find that it's being crushed, then that might constitute cause for closing it's Toxic hole also.