The Pretty Good AE Debate

[Coyotedancer]

2 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I believe you.  Sometimes I like farming because it's predicable and you can get into a rhythm and it can be relaxing.  But I also realize that I'm making bank.  Pretending that I'm not making bank or that farms aren't repetitive is not a reality I am familiar with.

 

Oh, it's definitely profitable... But I guess my thoughts on that aspect are tempered by knowing a few marketeers. Compared to what they can make in the same amount of time it takes me to clear a map, my rewards are pocket change. 

 

I know that if I really wanted to make a fortune, farming isn't really the most efficient or most rapid way to do it.  

[Troo]

16 minutes ago, battlewraith said:

How many times do I need to repeat a mission or TF in order to establish that I "won" it.

 

once per character, ish.

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I'm no Commissioner of Fun, although I'd make a damn fine one!

I believe in you!

[battlewraith]

1 hour ago, Bionic_Flea said:

 

Would you still have fun if the AE rewards were removed? Or halved? Or otherwise reduced?

 

I mean, you could still do exactly the same thing, only for a little less bank.  Is the farm fun or is the bank fun?

It's not about bank. It's about wasting time.

[SwitchFade]

3 hours ago, battlewraith said:

I don't remember. You have to understand that you aren't the only very entitled and very fragile forumgoer that's I've encountered and they kind of blend together a lot. Also when a thread is over I generally move on, I don't carry it with me like a deep psychological scar. Maybe grow a thicker skin? And maybe actually make a point instead of emoting on these threads? I have faith you can do better 🙂

Everyone stops taking you seriously and knows exactly how guilty you are when you use the exact excuse an abuser uses to justify beating someone and assigning the blame to their victim.

 

I'm in agreement with everyone you run into in all the threads you post in, the problem is you, not them.

 

Good luck.

[ivanhedgehog]

15 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Oh I get it.  Fire farmers are faster leveling than anything else in the game.  But your initial response was that "ordinary content isn't appealing" and that "Nerfing AE fire farms doesn't suddenly make the content people are skipping any funner."  I interpreted those statements as an implication that the farms were appealing and fun.

I never said that ordinary content wasnt appealing. there is content for a variety of tastes. you seem to thing that fire farming is somehow evil. It rewards less per kill than other similar leveled content. Lets see what a 4star lvl 50 ITF rewards and see how much you make on one of those.

[battlewraith]

58 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

Everyone stops taking you seriously and knows exactly how guilty you are when you use the exact excuse an abuser uses to justify beating someone and assigning the blame to their victim.

The unhinged ones often talk as if they are the community (everyone, we, etc.). And they compare forum tiffs to actual violence, torture, whatever lol. Good riddance. 

[kelika2]

2 hours ago, Akisan said:

Nice misquote on me, too.  I said "it's way not cool to change the text of a quote without noting that it's been edited".  If you want/need to translate something, fine, but you need to note that it's been edited.  It's extremely dishonest, and more than a little misleading, to say that so-and-so said "these exact words", when they, in fact, said "these other, possibly very different exact words".

irrelevant since there is a button to go to the original post

[Squeegle]

Speed TFs are run every few minutes. Making the fastest possible shortcuts get through them as quickly as possible.

What exactly will removing the XP post level 50 from AE farm runs change things?

MORE speed TFS.

whooooooooooooooooooptydoooo.

AEs make players who don't have to know where places like Striga are.

Speed TFs make it so players don't even have to navigate TO the next mission. TT!! TT! TT!

 

WHAT....will change?

virtually nothing.

[ivanhedgehog]

14 minutes ago, Squeegle said:

Speed TFs are run every few minutes. Making the fastest possible shortcuts get through them as quickly as possible.

What exactly will removing the XP post level 50 from AE farm runs change things?

MORE speed TFS.

whooooooooooooooooooptydoooo.

AEs make players who don't have to know where places like Striga are.

Speed TFs make it so players don't even have to navigate TO the next mission. TT!! TT! TT!

 

WHAT....will change?

virtually nothing.

The funny thing about that comment? all of my 20's level in striga. I love the first chain on the docks. after that, I go to croatoa. Those are some of the best zones in the game.

[Bionic_Flea]

1 hour ago, ivanhedgehog said:

I never said that ordinary content wasnt appealing. there is content for a variety of tastes. you seem to thing that fire farming is somehow evil. It rewards less per kill than other similar leveled content. Lets see what a 4star lvl 50 ITF rewards and see how much you make on one of those.

A) I wasn't talking to you or about you.  The quote in there is from Battlewraith.

B) I don't think fire farming is evil.  Nor did I say that it was.

C) I'd love to compare a +4 ITF to a run of the meteor and see how much XP and Inf is earned per minute or per hour.  Great idea!  You should go do that.

[Doc_Scorpion]

1 hour ago, FriezaReturns00001 said:

Circling back to farming, this is just inevitable in any game with online components, someone finds a strategy and uses it ALOT!

Most folks aren't too bothered by farming per se, we just accept it as something that happens and move on.  What's raising hackles in Cox isn't farming as a generic activity - it's one specific subset of farming.

[Spaghetti Betty]

[UltraAlt]

19 hours ago, nightroarer said:

Holy cow! Why would the devs want to destroy a fun part of the game for their players?

 

How exactly is doorsitting "fun"?

 

19 hours ago, nightroarer said:

But I enjoy playing AE story missions at various levels so that I'm not just doing the same mission arcs over and over again, with little variation. They are a fantastic change of pace and add to the enjoyment of the game.

 

And I agree that is the negative side of the equation.

If only the DEVs had stuck to their guns on live and not allowed farming in the first place as they said that they would ... then reneged on it and deleted their posts about dropping the ban-hammer on those that were abusing the AE.

 

As I stated in other posts, I have created AE missions as well. 

I think we both know that most non-Farming AE missions are overlooked by the majority of players and there is only very small minority of players that actually pay non-farming missions in the AE.

 

19 hours ago, Darmian said:

IF my Dev Choices were deemed to be fit enough to slot into the game, sure, what AE writer would turn that down?

 

Really, how could they?

If you create something for the game, it belongs to the game by default ... at least, I'm pretty sure that is still in the EULA or TOS.

 

 

 

 

[Seed22]

34 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

 

How exactly is doorsitting "fun"?

 

 

And I agree that is the negative side of the equation.

If only the DEVs had stuck to their guns on live and not allowed farming in the first place as they said that they would ... then reneged on it and deleted their posts about dropping the ban-hammer on those that were abusing the AE.

 

As I stated in other posts, I have created AE missions as well. 

I think we both know that most non-Farming AE missions are overlooked by the majority of players and there is only very small minority of players that actually pay non-farming missions in the AE.

 

 

Really, how could they?

If you create something for the game, it belongs to the game by default ... at least, I'm pretty sure that is still in the EULA or TOS.

 

 

 

 

They're usually overlooked because rewards, sure, but also because most folks story mishs aren't...well...put together well. I've played some on a whim and boy howdy... but that's the nature of player-created (or hell, even DEV created) content. It's hit or miss. I'd love to play more player-made story arcs, but I'm not going to slog through something that's rough to read.

 

That doesn't mean I think ALL player made content is like that, but I'd be lying to myself if I said a lot of it wasn't.

[Seed22]

7 hours ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Most folks aren't too bothered by farming per se, we just accept it as something that happens and move on.  What's raising hackles in Cox isn't farming as a generic activity - it's one specific subset of farming.

The only thing I'd agree with about AE farming is that the fire critters giving 3x XP was a bit...concerning.

 

Other than that: I say let em do them. If that's what brings them joy, you'd have to be a complete dick to take it away. And that sorry ass excuse of "MMOs have years of blah blah who gives a damn" isn't a valid reason to take away someone else's joy.

 

If that were the case, the same logic could be applied to the RPers sitting in pocket D all day, but they don't get flack so neither should those sitting in AE.

 

Mind you, I do play other content and only use AE to get new 50s, but I think folks forget this point: others do things differently than you to get joy in CoH, and that's okay!

 

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Seed22

[cranebump]

1 hour ago, Seed22 said:

They're usually overlooked because rewards, sure, but also because most folks story mishs aren't...well...put together well. I've played some on a whim and boy howdy... but that's the nature of player-created (or hell, even DEV created) content. It's hit or miss. I'd love to play more player-made story arcs, but I'm not going to slog through something that's rough to read.

 

That doesn't mean I think ALL player made content is like that, but I'd be lying to myself if I said a lot of it wasn't.

Even if you're a decent writer, it can take some time and practice to develop synergy with pace, presentation, and the occasional wonkiness of the AE engine. I've kept my older shit active if only to show I've gotten better (plus re-doing it would delete all the plays). Even with a great deal of experience in crafting (and I feel like I qualify at this point, though not on the order of someone like @Ankylosaur), you can still be slave to a wonky spawn, or poor power choices for enemies. You get one bad experience from a player, they might not bother to even try the rest of your stuff. If the clearly superior ones were shifted into the game, at least the players would know there's some merit to them. At this point, it's all word of mouth, and the DEV'S CHOICE tag (and, as we've seen, Dev's Choice comes and goes - too many other things to deal with). It's almost like you need 2 AE locations - one for farming, one for SFMA. Since the former overwhelms the latter, you'd likely only need one little door tucked away somewhere to accommodate traditional narrative (which I believe @Darmian has already suggested, to include locations). There just aren't as many.

 

But that's really just pie-in-the-sky musing. Few people play the game to experience player-made content. The ones who consistently produce it do so because they enjoy the process (and perhaps the accolades). And, to be perfectly honest, I don't think the Devs really want any player-made content shifted into the regular game. Pretty sure that, since they're the ones that have to do the heavy lifting to get it done, that they may as well create their own stuff, and make that canon. It is their world, after all. The rest of us are just borrowing it. I do know that tools matter, and as long as the Devs have better tools, they're going to produce more polished stuff. They've been nice enough to throw some bones our way, though, and what we have gotten - and will get - should improve the quality of SFMA missions.

Edited July 24, 2022 by cranebump

[TerroirNoir]

1 hour ago, Seed22 said:

They're usually overlooked because rewards, sure, but also because most folks story mishs aren't...well...put together well. I've played some on a whim and boy howdy... but that's the nature of player-created (or hell, even DEV created) content. It's hit or miss. I'd love to play more player-made story arcs, but I'm not going to slog through something that's rough to read.

 

That doesn't mean I think ALL player made content is like that, but I'd be lying to myself if I said a lot of it wasn't.

Despite being someone who encourages the use of the AE for player created story arcs and not farms I have to agree that a majority are...unpolished at best and not very good at worst. That said, you can pan for gold in there and you WILL find it. The Dev Choices themselves are on a scale in my opinion, ranging from "why isn't this actually in the game?" to "that was pretty good, I can see why it got picked". @Darmian and @Ankylosaur and @cranebump have arcs that could slot into the main game with little or no disruption to anything already there, and I think the main game would be better for it. I've played @Darmian's Praetorian arcs and if the contacts for those popped up while I was finishing out Neutropolis you'd never know these were player additions.  Similarly with the other two, and a writer called @Take One, whose additions to the VEAT storyline would slot in perfectly.

 

So, at the risk of annoying others, but that's not my intent at all, there are writers using the AE in the way it was originally intended to be used and doing it masterfully.  I've kept an updated list of all of the Homecoming Dev Choices for a while now and though it's on a break I will update it again when it returns.

 

I'm not a farmer. I'll be honest about that.  I've tried it and had some fun blasting enemies, and made some inf along the way, but I play for story.  Everybody has their own jam I suppose and if you enjoy farming then you enjoy farming, if you enjoy story content then you enjoy story content.  And finally, and I really don't want to get anyone's feathers ruffled here, but a few times over this thread and others I've seen the statement that some people have played all the in game content and are bored by it, so now they farm. How is playing the same farm (or group of farms) over and over not equally as dull as having played all the content in the main game? I'm not actually having a go at people here I just find that answer weird. If you're farming to get inf or XP I get that and if you're farming because it's relaxing and it's maybe like a mobile game where you're clearing a level then I get that too. But doing it over and over because you finished the in game content? I don't understand that. Me, as you can tell, I'd be searching through the AE for new story the same way I channel hop on TV.  What's this?  Ok, not for me. Next.  Oh, I like this one, did they make anything else.  My take only.  

 

Here's that updated list of mine.

 

 

 

[Without_Pause]

On 7/22/2022 at 10:16 PM, Akisan said:

 

Yes, they are.  Each individual enemy may be "full" strength, but an enemy group that only ever dishes out a single damage type is almost always *much* weaker than the normal enemy groups in the game - because the player doesn't need to have capped resistance and defences for most or all types, just that one damage type, which frees up quite a bit of space for whatever else you want to do on that build.

My point still stands on it just being about damage and more damage.

 

Oh, and if you want to complain about the lack of damage types in farms, may I present to you The Council? I did +4/x8 on them before level 50 and with a regular build. The mission wasn't even in AE.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Without_Pause

[Troo]

15 hours ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

 

SB, are the crushed souls of AFK AE Farmers somewhere below the AE Farmers? Maybe way down under the WST's cleaver?

[Troo]

9 hours ago, Seed22 said:

Apparently I'm a forum grouch.

 

My profile pic is my reaction every time I read these feedback threads, or sometimes general discussion.

 

sorry. my bad.

[Spaghetti Betty]

23 minutes ago, Troo said:

 

SB, are the crushed souls of AFK AE Farmers somewhere below the AE Farmers? Maybe way down under the WST's cleaver?

Exactly. They never even stood a chance to come close to the mightiness of the Dr Q Farmer. Mostly because they were AFK.

[ivanhedgehog]

1 hour ago, Spaghetti Betty said:

Exactly. They never even stood a chance to come close to the mightiness of the Dr Q Farmer. Mostly because they were AFK.

Does it make me  bad person to like Dr Q TF? Should I seek therapy? ok, more therapy?

[Spaghetti Betty]

28 minutes ago, ivanhedgehog said:

Does it make me  bad person to like Dr Q TF? Should I seek therapy? ok, more therapy?

Nothing wrong with liking Dr Q. I was more commentating on the absurd notion that AE Farming doesn't deserve to be scrutinized just a little bit because "things like Dr Q exist". The amount of investment vs reward isn't comparable.

[nightroarer]

14 hours ago, UltraAlt said:

 

How exactly is doorsitting "fun"?

 

It's not; I never said or even implied that it was. I don't door sit, I play missions.