Make Dominators worth playing before Perma Dom.

[Wavicle]

Seriously, the Dominator AT is hot garbage without permadom.

I want to be able to enjoy Dominators from level 1 onward, like I can every other AT in the game.

My suggestion is get rid of permadom. Make the Domination bar build automatically, like Sentinels Opportunity, and disallow Recharge from reducing the cooldown. Maybe tweak something so the downtime isn't too bad.

Or come up with a different solution, but something, ANYTHING, so this class isn't trash outside of Dom.

[kelika2]

Attacking and using CC builds domrage

using domination uses 25% of the bar for 10-20 seconds of domination

cant build domrage while under domination

complain for months that the inability to build domrage while under domination is crap and people will bring up savage melee

then someone comes in with their character called "double lockout" savage melee dominator and rattles off their characters bio for paragraphs at a time

devs nerf firefarming and regen instead

[Wavicle]

4 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

using domination uses 25% of the bar for 10-20 seconds of domination

 

This is a great idea!

[Wavicle]

Maybe 50% for 30-45 seconds is the way to go.

[Greycat]

12 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Seriously, the Dominator AT is hot garbage without permadom.

 

Incorrect.

 

I have zero doms with permadom and they're perfectly fine. Yes, from level 1 onwards.  Domination already builds as you use your powers, and builds faster on teams.

[biostem]

I think the problem is that outside of domination, dominators just don't have the damage nor the raw control power to rationalize choosing one over a controller, who has both containment and brings along a support set.  I almost feel like doms should get containment, and controllers should get domination...

Edited October 22, 2022 by biostem

[D.Bug]

Domination doesn't affect Dom's damage at all, hasn't since issue 15. When it was removed and put in the AT mod and in the Assault powers themselves.  They do the same damage in or out of Domination and are one of the higher dmg ATs. This is what Domination gives them a brief 25% hit buff for 15 secs of the 90 sec duration and makes it so they can spam less control so they can use assault more often, the mez protection, and a refilled blue bar upon click .They play fine at low levels without permadom currently leveling Dom #41-43 for reference. Play bit more tactical and not like some smash face on keyboard AT and you'll do fine 

 

[D.Bug]

13 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Seriously, the Dominator AT is hot garbage without permadom.

I want to be able to enjoy Dominators from level 1 onward, like I can every other AT in the game.

My suggestion is get rid of permadom. Make the Domination bar build automatically, like Sentinels Opportunity, and disallow Recharge from reducing the cooldown. Maybe tweak something so the downtime isn't too bad.

Or come up with a different solution, but something, ANYTHING, so this class isn't trash outside of Dom.

You're welcome to your opinion, but others obviously have theirs.  Just because an AT doesn't click with you doesn't mean it's bad or something has to change it just means it's not a fit for you.  If you can't enjoy it any other way that's a you issue and maybe you just need to accept it's not the AT for you. 

[Wavicle]

9 hours ago, D.Bug said:

Domination doesn't affect Dom's damage at all, hasn't since issue 15. When it was removed and put in the AT mod and in the Assault powers themselves.  They do the same damage in or out of Domination and are one of the higher dmg ATs. This is what Domination gives them a brief 25% hit buff for 15 secs of the 90 sec duration and makes it so they can spam less control so they can use assault more often, the mez protection, and a refilled blue bar upon click .They play fine at low levels without permadom currently leveling Dom #41-43 for reference. Play bit more tactical and not like some smash face on keyboard AT and you'll do fine 

 

 

ah yes, play tactically. I'm sure that will help me deal with LTs that take multiple mezzes to hold or confuse who can kill me in seconds if I miss even once.

[Lazarillo]

I dig Dominators, but I do agre they feel a little overly reliant on Incarnates and Perma-Hasten and such, to the point that I lose some enthusiasm for them because it feels like they only "work" at 50. There's so very little room in what an "ideal" Dom build looks like, due to the very binary nature of Permadom.  There's also the weird way Dominators kinda interplay with alignment more than any other AT, since by being a pure villain, they can instant-charge their bar once every few minutes in case of slip-ups (or before starting off).  So to get the "most" out of the AT, you also end up locking yourself redside.

 

Personally, the idea I've had is to make it work a little more like this:

 

1. The Domination bar builds and empties just the same as it does currently.

2. Rather than a click activation, the benefits of Domination automatically apply whenever the bar is at 90% or higher.

3. The click-Domination instead now auto-fills the bar to 100%, and can be used any time.

 

The thought here is that rather than having to constantly babysit the click powers, Dominators could maintain their empowered state simply by continuing to fight.  With the Domination bar emptying more slowly than, say, Fury, this even gives a little time to move between mobs without the ability falling off.  The click-on ability from Domination itself would mean Dominators didn't have to work up to the power, but this would likely have to be compensated for in some way, perhaps by making it so that the click power no longer benefited from Recharge buffs?

 

Too strong?  Not strong enough?  Finicky in ways that would make it unfeasabile?

[Wavicle]

That sounds great!

[Vanden]

2 hours ago, Wavicle said:

ah yes, play tactically. I'm sure that will help me deal with LTs that take multiple mezzes to hold or confuse who can kill me in seconds if I miss even once.

 

See, this is why the chance to hit cap needs to go all the way to 100%.

[BrandX]

I personally haven't had issue with Dom's how they play, but I have thought it'd be nice if one of the ATO Procs was +Domination over what we get.

[Greycat]

4 hours ago, Lazarillo said:

I dig Dominators, but I do agre they feel a little overly reliant on Incarnates and Perma-Hasten and such,

 

No they aren't.  Nowhere near. You don't need to perma-anything or wait for incarnates for effective dominators. That's purely a playstyle choice (or crutch, depending.)

 

Hell, I wish permadom weren't possible without teammate buffs, frankly. Same with most perma-whatevers.

[blue4333]

Maybe Dominators could get a bump to their ranged damage scalar from 0.95 to 1.10 like what Sentinels got. Should be fine since Doms don't have nukes.

[Wavicle]

Just now, blue4333 said:

Maybe Dominators could get a bump to their ranged damage scalar from 0.95 to 1.10 like what Sentinels got. Should be fine since Doms don't have nukes.

the issue isn’t damage. It’s survival.

[Rudra]

37 minutes ago, blue4333 said:

Maybe Dominators could get a bump to their ranged damage scalar from 0.95 to 1.10 like what Sentinels got. Should be fine since Doms don't have nukes.

Increasing damage is not the answer to everything.

[MsSmart]

This is an interested thread...

 

I use MIDS when I design my Dom and thus I know what I am getting into well before I even create one in the server. Because the system has an interesting status effect process (that is when an effect actually takes hold of the target) it is difficult to assess the performance of a Dom or Controller in combat, in general control powers work great when attacking minions and Lts, they are not as effective against bosses, and pointless with EBs, Arch villains and GMs when being the only control type in the group or alone. If you have three or more control types going at it, then bosses can be controlled rather speedily, and EBs can also be restricted in reasonable time, with regards to Arch villains and GMs the control point is moot. (I am sure there is going to be that one exceptional player, that will testify that they have no problem locking down anything in no time, and therefore everything is fine, but the normal player does not)

 

If you think Dominators have it bad, try a controller, their abilities have no additional mag potency and they do not get Dominance.

 

But on the other hand, lets look at the entire package; they have 1 set of powers dedicated towards control and a second that provides for damage and other auxiliary needs. When I looked at my spines dominator, I realized that the vast majority of the damaging powers provided light damage, which makes the dominator wimpy in that area, and often experience when fighting a boss that to eventually defeat it, it consumes most of my endurance, because I do so little damage and spend so much endurance doing it. You also add that the arch type has little to no powers to augment the class survivability, who is supposed to have control as their mechanism or way to survive and we already discussed that control really does not work that well for the user, and all the mobs have spam ranged status effects, some with area effects, to add insult over injury, with at times better than snipe range to accompany their status effect attacks (that is why it comes to no surprise to see the majority of the players going down in battle are support types)

 

So you wind up with an Arch type (actually both Dom and Controller) with not reliable control abilities, no defensive abilities to survive with, mostly light damage, and no status effect protection (resistances are moot, they take you out anyways and with the spamming of the status effects they do, you stay out); and then you wonder why folks are looking for ways to make the arch type more effective?

 

Do note that with the introduction of IOs and Incarnates, many of these horrid flaws in the arch type can be conquered, well that works until you do content that is of lower level than 45, then the arch type is fodder once more.

 

Hugs

 

Sue

[SeraphimKensai]

I love doms the AT was the first CoV AT I was drawn too, and to date I have maybe 9 lvl 50 dominators on HC spread across my accounts (only one is not permadom, but it will be once I slot it).

 

That said I wouldn't change permadom as it's set defining. I would suggest a minor inherent addition to help out Dominators regardless of whether they are able to achieve permadom or not with a 20% damage bonus for the Dominator themselves to targets afflicted by a mez. I personally find the damage output can be a little low for my taste, so I figure 20% is a reasonable increase.

 

What do you think?

[laudwic]

I have three 50 Doms, (Grav/Savage,  Darkness/Electricity, and Symphony/Energy) and two 50 Controllers (Illusion/TA, Grav/Storm).  Each has level 4 in all their incarnates.

 

All have been leveled up to 50/Incarnates predominately solo.  Only the Symphony/Energy got experience boosters, and even then only to 40th.  (Some content seems reparative, I like  earning powers faster, and the lose of inf does not seem to be much of a lose before 40.)   I have a lot of time in each of these characters.

 

In my mind, the only real problem with Doms is you have to have inf from another character to fund them.  All of my Doms were funded by prior characters so they would able to get IOs as soon as they were available and have permadom in the low 40s.  Doms are not hard to build, but they take more planning than other ATs for slots and IO set selection.  It isn't hard to get the set with a recharge bonus, but you have to understand it is there and a goal. All of my Dominators comfortably had Permadom in their 40s based off hasten, set bonuses and a Luck of the Gamble Plus Recharge Proc or two (Force Feedback Proc if I had knockback powers).  Permadom is class defining, but they are certainly playable prior to 40s.  Pre-permadom you are clicking dominate to either break a hold (if you don't have an inspiration) or a boss fight to one shot hold a boss.

 

  Controllers are less solo friendly, while Illusion is much better on Controller than it is on Dom, my Ill/TA Controller needs to rely upon the Sorcery pool to gain an attack.  My Gravity/Storm Controller has enough attacks because of how Gravity is.  Both Controllers suffer from the fact that they rely upon the Controller damage bonus to held enemies to speed up combat but is hard to consistently hold EBs to get a damage bonus.

 

 

[Uun]

1 hour ago, MsSmart said:

in general control powers work great when attacking minions and Lts, they are not as effective against bosses, and pointless with EBs, Arch villains and GMs when being the only control type in the group or alone.

Each rank has a different level of status protection: minions are mag 1, lieutenants are mag 2, bosses are mag 3, elite bosses are mag 6, AVs are mag 3 and giant monsters are mag 75. You need to surpass the target's protection in order to mezz them. Dominator and controller holds, stuns, confuses and fears are mag 3 (dominators get an additional 3 mag with domination up and controllers get a 20% chance of an additional 1 mag). Without domination, you need to hit a boss 2x (and an EB 4x). With domination up, these numbers are cut in half. AVs can be mezzed the same as bosses when the purple triangles are pointing down. 

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Protection

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Purple_Triangles

[EmperorSteele]

I was just about to point out what Uun just said (and he said it better, to boot!). There should be barely any lts that need to be hit with 2 stacks of anything to be mezzed. Either Wavicle is exaggerating, left something out, or something screwy is going on.

 

Not that this completely negates the need for Doms to be looked at (i too find them a bit clunky), but I don't think the issue is as bad as what is being argued. 

[Rudra]

Some factions get increased mez protection. Like Arachnos (bosses) and Lost I think. Been a while since I played my elec/earth dom, so not sure which factions. I do know that some are more resistant to mezzes though.

[Vanden]

2 hours ago, EmperorSteele said:

I was just about to point out what Uun just said (and he said it better, to boot!). There should be barely any lts that need to be hit with 2 stacks of anything to be mezzed. Either Wavicle is exaggerating, left something out, or something screwy is going on.

 

He's not really exaggerating; Arachnos is lousy with 'em.

[Wavicle]

The mobs in question were The Lost.

 

 The LTs have Both hold and confuse protection.