Shield Woes.....

[Saiyajinzoningen]

1st of all I am a fan of shield

The perceived problems and suggested improvements come from a place of love. I'm not trying to make this set like all the others or create more power creep, just balance things out a bit.

 

Ok I'm gonna avoid the whole why can't we throw the shield conversation. Shield charge works great as this armor sets only offensive attack.

 

1. Grant cover......this power seems fairly useless considering it does nothing for you and only buffs your team. Which for tanks could be useful but for stalkers it's just a little strange.  Can we turn this power into....

 

A. Block (toggle) When block is enabled character is rooted and may not run jump or fly. All incoming damage is reduced by X% Block also creates a taunting field which taunts all foes in X range. Your attack speed is slowed by X% when blocking.  Yes I'm aware this sounds like granite but it's the closest mechanism the game already has for a potential damage soaking meat shield power.

 

2. No heals and no endurance recovery. I'm aware Super reflexes is also built in this manner and while this may be fine for stalkers or scrappers but it's reduces survivability in tanks which is why one rarely see super reflexes tanks. (rarely)

 

B. True Grit should have a regen component instead of max health. while this doesn't "fix" the issue it does help offset DOTs like caltrops/burn. Constant dots are crippling when you don't have a heal, even with capped defenses some of those dots get through.

 

3. Aesthetics. Shield armor has no colors or unique animations in fact when wielding shield you are effectively shield locked into a shield animation. 

 

C. characters have little purple shields that hover around them. We have a giant shield we can project under our feet. This just seems like an oversight. Yeah I'm aware there's a ton of auras already but I'm sure there's an underutilized aura out there we can repurpose for shields XD

[FupDup]

As a correction, Grant Cover's DDR and recharge resistance both apply to the user in addition to allies. Only the actual defense doesn't apply to the user. At worst, the power does make a fine LOTG mule. 

 

In general I do actually agree that shield is kind of overrated...most other people here would rank it as like S+ but I'd put it around A- or maybe B+ if I'm being as harsh as possible. However, since it is considered by many to be a top tier set, I find it unlikely that it will receive substantial buffs in the foreseeable future. And honestly there are definitely worse sets out there that could use help first. 

[Glacier Peak]

If the developers made all these suggested improvements, where would the risk be for players using the set? What would then be the set's weakness? It seems like your suggestion is just plugging all the holes of the set and leaving nothing on the table. 

[InvaderStych]

1 hour ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

1. Grant cover......this power seems fairly useless considering it does nothing for you and only buffs your team. Which for tanks could be useful but for stalkers it's just a little strange.  Can we turn this power into....

 

Nope. As stated Grant Cover provides benefit to the user. Removing the ability to use Hover/EvM with /SD because of a rooting power is complete non-starter, imo. We already have enough sets and powers that lock players out of the flight pool.

 

1 hour ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

2. No heals and no endurance recovery. I'm aware Super reflexes is also built in this manner and while this may be fine for stalkers or scrappers but it's reduces survivability in tanks which is why one rarely see super reflexes tanks. (rarely)

 

This would make the set blatantly overpowered.  Lack of a Heal and Heavy Endurance Cost are the Checks and Balances of the set.

 

1 hour ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

B. True Grit should have a regen component instead of max health. while this doesn't "fix" the issue it does help offset DOTs like caltrops/burn. Constant dots are crippling when you don't have a heal, even with capped defenses some of those dots get through.

 

Absolutely not. True Grit is perfection.  My /SD scrapper sits near 2100hp with True Grit and Accolades.  The solution to Caltrops and Burn is Movement.

 

1 hour ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

3. Aesthetics. Shield armor has no colors or unique animations in fact when wielding shield you are effectively shield locked into a shield animation. 

 

Not entirely true.  Combine /SD with a weapon set and you've got the single coolest Taunt/Confront animation in the game - one that cannot be replicated in any other way.  /SD also give access to a kicking animation for Brawl.

 

It doesn't need auras.  Getting access to more emotes would be great, but that is really all that /SD needs.

 

[Wravis]

Isn't Shield like, really good? I always thought it was really good.

[Rudra]

3 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

No heals and no endurance recovery. I'm aware Super reflexes is also built in this manner and while this may be fine for stalkers or scrappers but it's reduces survivability in tanks which is why one rarely see super reflexes tanks. (rarely)

Just as a heads up, I've found Unrelenting from the Presence pool to be a very nice heal, over time actually, for my Brute. Plugs the lack of heal hole.

 

Edit: Also, there is Aid Self from the Medicine pool.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Rudra

[Zect]

5 hours ago, Wravis said:

Isn't Shield like, really good? I always thought it was really good.

 

It is.

 

Don't take it from me, take it from someone who plays it in actually challenging content: @Linea rates SD tanks above Inv and stone tanks for 801.x.

[Captain Fabulous]

8 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

We have a giant shield we can project under our feet.

We do???? 😲

[nihilii]

Grant Cover buffs your own slow resistance.

[Doomguide2005]

To add to this -> 2B. +max health does in fact increase your regen rate.  My experience with Shield is close to non-existent (especially in the last few years}.  However, it frequently comes up in discussions of strong defense sets and not for being an underpowered set.  It is the only set other than SR with substantial DDR potential.

[Player2]

On 2/19/2023 at 1:10 PM, Rudra said:

Just as a heads up, I've found Unrelenting from the Presence pool to be a very nice heal, over time actually, for my Brute. Plugs the lack of heal hole.

 

Edit: Also, there is Aid Self from the Medicine pool.

Unrelenting from Presence Pool and and Unleash Potential from the Force of Will origin pool.  On a few characters, I have both so I have a backup while the first is recharging.

[ninja surprise]

On 2/19/2023 at 8:15 AM, Saiyajinzoningen said:

A. Block (toggle) When block is enabled character is rooted and may not run jump or fly. All incoming damage is reduced by X% Block also creates a taunting field which taunts all foes in X range. Your attack speed is slowed by X% when blocking.  Yes I'm aware this sounds like granite but it's the closest mechanism the game already has for a potential damage soaking meat shield power.

 

Why would you want your /Shield Stalker to to be rooted, slowed, and taunting all nearby enemies? I like having my Stalker running around critting bosses, not sitting around soaking up hits.

Shield already has a taunt aura.

On 2/19/2023 at 8:15 AM, Saiyajinzoningen said:

3. Aesthetics. Shield armor has no colors or unique animations in fact when wielding shield you are effectively shield locked into a shield animation. 

 

Not sure what you mean... Shield Defense is unique in being the only powerset that adds a shield to the costume. It also gives the attack sets unique animations that go with the shield (and prohibits two-handed weapon sets like Staff, Claws, and Titan Weapons).  Did you know that in the Costume Creator you get to pick from a bunch of different types of shields and you can customize its appearance?

[Saiyajinzoningen]

9 hours ago, ninja surprise said:

 

Why would you want your /Shield Stalker to to be rooted, slowed, and taunting all nearby enemies? I like having my Stalker running around critting bosses, not sitting around soaking up hits.

Shield already has a taunt aura.

 

Not sure what you mean... Shield Defense is unique in being the only powerset that adds a shield to the costume. It also gives the attack sets unique animations that go with the shield (and prohibits two-handed weapon sets like Staff, Claws, and Titan Weapons).  Did you know that in the Costume Creator you get to pick from a bunch of different types of shields and you can customize its appearance?

 

what i mean is when you go to the costume creator and try to recolor any shield powers, u simply can't because there isn't anything to recolor. As far as the stalker thing goes im not sure why they have grant cover in the 1st place lol.

[Arc-Mage]

You have obviously never put a Shield Team together where everyone has Grant Cover.

[biostem]

On 2/27/2023 at 3:34 AM, Saiyajinzoningen said:

As far as the stalker thing goes im not sure why they have grant cover in the 1st place lol.

Maybe they thought giving them phalanx fighting instead, combined with the bit of defense that hide gives them, would be too much?  I'm similarly perplexed as to why Stalker regen doesn't get quick recovery.

[Major_Decoy]

On 2/28/2023 at 6:52 PM, biostem said:

Maybe they thought giving them phalanx fighting instead, combined with the bit of defense that hide gives them, would be too much?  I'm similarly perplexed as to why Stalker regen doesn't get quick recovery.

I think the original design intent was "well, stalkers aren't going to be in prolonged fights, so they don't really need it" Willpower doesn't have Quick Recovery either, and Stalker Ninjitsu doesn't have Seishinteki Kyoyo.

 

(I realize that Scrappers didn't have Ninjitsu on live, but it fits the point)

[SwitchFade]

Apologies, I'm against a wholesale change to this set, as described.

 

What problem are these trying to solve? Isn't shield potent already?

[ninja surprise]

On 2/27/2023 at 1:34 AM, Saiyajinzoningen said:

 

what i mean is when you go to the costume creator and try to recolor any shield powers, u simply can't because there isn't anything to recolor. As far as the stalker thing goes im not sure why they have grant cover in the 1st place lol.

 

Oh, you're saying Shield doesn't have colorful auras like Dark Armor for you to color and changing the style and color of the shield doesn't count?